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Why you SHOULDN'T use the ELECTRONIC SHUTTER for PORTRAITS!
Рет қаралды 373,603
Күн бұрынIn this video, I show how using the electronic shutter on your mirrorless camera can affect the background blur in your image!
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@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
I put the link to the article in description and thanks to my subscriber Zottjes for pointing this out to me🤙
@rob_luna 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Zottjes
@MegaWeitzel 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks to making this more public. But please be more precise in you wording next time. This is about the electronic front curtain shutter, but not about the electronic shutter. Two different things. PS: I was cheated is a little harsh if Sony states in their menu "When you shoot at high shutter speeds with a large-aperture lens attached, out-of-focus circle produced by the bokeh effect may get cut off because of the shutter mechanism. If this happens, set [e-Front Curtain Shut.] to [Off]."
@_EDDE_ 5 жыл бұрын
Wow! Great input and observation. Thank you Zottjes and Manny!
@santosovideo 5 жыл бұрын
MegaWeitzel I'll second that. Two very different things!
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
MegaWeitzel You are correct. I should of been more precise with my words
@samspicer4237 5 жыл бұрын
Hey Manny, complete silent shutter is fine - it's just the e-front curtain that causes this. I'm a Wedding Photographer and generally shoot full mechanical shutter when indoors and stick to silent shutter when outdoors. I too had this problem and the beginning of the year noticing that my bokeh was different between scenes! The only time I use e-front curtain is for moving scenes when stopped down to say 2.8 and when I need that more responsive shutter and less vibrations (confetti scenes etc.)
@shaolin95 5 жыл бұрын
Fix the title please. The issue is Electronic First Curtain Shutter not the electronic shutter so people don't get confused thinking the "silent shooting" has the issue too
@neal9677 4 жыл бұрын
I'm the one who's been misled by the title and got here by mistake lol. EFCS and silent shutter are two different things.
@shaolin95 4 жыл бұрын
@@neal9677 yep but he never bothered to fix it and kept the misinformation going...whatever :/
@ryandury 3 жыл бұрын
Still hasn't updated it..
@mallasaugat 3 жыл бұрын
thanks for this comment. i almost got misled.
@PaulRamen 3 жыл бұрын
Silent mode means EFCS on. I believe Silent On is fully electronic Silent Off/EFCS On is 50/50 (front electronic, rear mechanical) Silent Off/EFCS Off is fully mechanical (front mechanical, rear mechanical) There's also the issue that the raw bit depth (and thus the dynamic range) varies between 14 and 12 bit depending on these settings and which sony you're using
@needles_balloon 5 жыл бұрын
Electronic Shutter =/= Electronic First Curtain Shutter (EFCS). EFCS electronically starts the exposure, but mechanically ends the exposure. The negative effects only occur with EFCS, mechanical shutter and (full) electronic shutter both do not affect bokeh negatively.
@joseallende8046 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for clarifying that. I noticed that Manny was disabling EFCS shutter in the video which was confusing me. In any case this is very good info as EFCS is the default on Sony and with my XT-3 I recently set my shutter sequence to EFCS --> MS --> ES... so I've been doing this on both my bodies. Argh!!
@Slippinjimmy12 4 жыл бұрын
@ateb3 Exactly. SIlent Shutter AKA Electronic Shutter won't affect your Bokeh. Only the EF Curtain Shutter will. Manny probably got confused.
@MichaSzczepanskiFotograf 4 жыл бұрын
Yes, you are right. It seems like a big missunderstanding two menu options. Many made mistake.
@badhabit714 4 жыл бұрын
@ateb3 GLBG
@bentonpix 4 жыл бұрын
@ateb3 Correct.
@Strange_Company 5 жыл бұрын
For information about the possible root cause, it is from the dpreview thread : if anything has changed in EFCS tech in the 3rd gen A7 cameras. I use A7r3 and had A7m3 for a while. If you shoot slow speed turn EFCS on - less vibration so more sharpness If you shoot high speed open aperture turn EFCS off - avoid messed up bokeh. Tripod is probably slow speed so EFCS should be on to minimize shutter shock. Following some discussions now we know the physics behind the bokeh clipping. The two shutters work on different planes. Physical shutter is a bit in front of the sensor. Electronic one is the sensor surface. The problem at high speed is that only a tiny slit of light** goes between the two shutters that race across the frame. Bokeh and defocus generally is rendered by rays of light falling at higher angle of incidence and those rays get clipped by the asymmetric shutter. So for maximum safety and top notch bokeh avoid using EFCS on anything above 1/500 (double the sync speed) ** - You do know that up to 1/250 first shutter opens exposes the full sensor and then the second shutter closes to end exposure. At higher speeds the mechanics cannot expose the full sensor simultaneously. So the solution is that the two shutter run in front of the sensor simultaneously only exposing a small area of the sensor and for shorter time i.e. the interval between the two shutters. www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/3814285?page=14
@shifteleven 5 жыл бұрын
Love that you're bringing this up. Since you're playing with the X-T3, go to the Menu > 📷 > Shutter Type - you can tell the X-T3 to use Electronic Front-curtain Sync for for shots under 1/2000 of a sec, and then Mechanical Shutter after that. It's the best of both worlds and I really wish Sony would add that to their menus! It should he said though, if you're indoors shooting under 1/1000th of a sec, E-front is better for hand holding - less vibrations for sharper photos. Super critical for something like the A7riii.
@michaellundphotography 5 жыл бұрын
There are 2 pages of the shutter menu for Fuji, the next one has the almighty option of EFCS + MS + ES... took me a while to realize there's a second page LOL
@andreak4280 5 жыл бұрын
thanks for this tip, gonna give this a try 👍🏼
@feingemacht4604 5 жыл бұрын
You mean Electronic shutter for Long exposure times and mechanical for the short ones?
@shifteleven 5 жыл бұрын
@@feingemacht4604 So I mean: - Electronic Front Curtain Sync for exposures longer than 1/2000th of a sec. - Full Mechanical shutter from 1/2000th to 1/8000th of a sec. - As Michael Lund noted, you can then set up the camera to use just the Electronic shutter for speeds greater than 1/8000th of a sec. I find these settings working great for hand-held portraits. For long exposures on a tripod, I'm not sure how much shake EFCS or MS interferes with the photo and why you might use just ES for longer exposures.
@michaellundphotography 5 жыл бұрын
K. Adam Christensen good question, for what it’s worth, I just did some long 15 minute exposures and left the IBIS on and had the shutter set to EFCS MS ES, and it turned out flawless. Now if I had the ibis off and set to ES or something else maybe it would be even more flawless lol... but so far I haven’t had any issues =)
@ConsumerFanatics 5 жыл бұрын
Manny, just one point of clarification: it's electronic FRONT CURTAIN shutter (EFCS), not just electronic shutter, that causes this. A full electronic shutter is when silent shutter is used or what the A9 leverages to get the 20fps, and in those situations, you would not run into this particular issue.
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Thank you. Yes I made the mistake of referring to it as just an electronic shutter but that’s what I meant :)
@jamesf3382 5 жыл бұрын
CFGamescape good to know man! I was afraid my a9 had the same issue.
@davidtran-dinh1385 5 жыл бұрын
@@MannyOrtiz If you know you made a mistake, then could you change the title of the video?
@WyvernApalis 5 жыл бұрын
@@MannyOrtiz may wanna change your title dude, it's causing a bit of confusion. And maybe pin this too
@TheTempic 4 жыл бұрын
@@MannyOrtiz Still no correction of your mistake?
@zevindd 4 жыл бұрын
This effect is noted in the expanded manual for the A7 on Sony's website. The couple of things you should note, is that with EFCS off, there will be slightly more delay between button press and exposure, as the mechanical front curtain will need to close before it can open. Additionally, because of that extra curtain action needed, burst fire rate will be about 20% less. Lastly, for longer exposures, the extra shutter action can cause "shutter slap", making landscape and astro shots less sharp. At the end of the day, it depends and what and how you're shooting, and what compromises you're willing to make.
@saliwanpl1832 Жыл бұрын
Great information :) It's worth reading the instructions, but we often forget about it or become too lazy :D
@MMaven 5 жыл бұрын
Super Weird! Thank you for sharing!
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks for stopping by Michael
@MegaWeitzel 5 жыл бұрын
Sony menu on this "When you shoot at high shutter speeds with a large-aperture lens attached, out-of-focus circle produced by the bokeh effect may get cut off because of the shutter mechanism. If this happens, set [e-Front Curtain Shut.] to [Off]. When a lens made by another manufacturer (including a Minolta/Konica-Minolta lens) is used, set this function to [Off]. If you set this function to [On], the correct exposure will not be set or the image brightness will be uneven. When you shoot at high shutter speeds, the image brightness may become uneven depending on the shooting environment. In such cases, set [e-Front Curtain Shut.] to [Off]."
@ryszardzokowski812 5 жыл бұрын
In short its because sensor "speed" because its have long reaction times it cause this problem. Rolling shutter effect in video mode is also affected by this.
@TheDajunior 5 жыл бұрын
@@ryszardzokowski812 how can it be connected to the sensor speed or any other sensor aspect? The out-of-focus circle depends only on the aperture size. I bet the aperture has not enough time for being opened when electronic first curtain is used. Similar problem about using electronic first curtain and strobes. In specs for my a7 1st gen it's said that sync shutter speed is 1/250 but I found that it work only on 1/200 and just now I realized that it's becuase of electronic first curtain, because closing a real curtain takes time and flash signal has time to be sent before it will be opened for exposuring. I have to check this theory though.
@derTommy 3 жыл бұрын
Unfortunately this video is very wrong and missleading. The effect does not occur with electronic shutter but with ecfs. Simplified said the mechanical shutter will "cast a shadow" on the first electronic shutter when they are too close together because of the short shutter speed. This is because the electronic shutter is "on the sensor" and the mechanical one is slightly in front of the sensor.
@crownspecialties 4 жыл бұрын
“And you know what blows me” 😂😂 You forgot the word “away” hahaha
@8notes_ 3 ай бұрын
This has saved me. Out of curiosity i started searching for effects of electronic shutter Cos is just didn’t feel right not hearing the snap of my shutter. I felt like i was taking screenshots of what my sensor was seeing instead of optically writing it on memory. This has confirmed my suspicions. Thank you
@JaMikePhotography 5 жыл бұрын
Oh wow mechanical shutter. Never thought of that one. Nice work taking the comments/audience into account! Love it
@uxo2255 5 жыл бұрын
I think this happens because of how the sensor is read. As with a Mechanical shutter, the entire sensor is read at once thus everything is being recorded at the same time, however with an electronic shutter, the sensor is read (although very fast) one line at a time. I believe that this one line reading is the cause of how the blurriness is interpreted. Kind of like if you pressed a stamp on a piece of paper all at once you'll get a cleaner stamp, vs if the stamp was cut into 4 pieces and each piece being pressed down one at a time. no matter how many times you try, the single stamp will be a cleaner rendition than the 4 individual pieces. Just my hypothesis on why this happens.
@EDCGadgets 5 жыл бұрын
@@uxo2255 Fuji still solved this issue, even with 1/32.000........................
@ogonzilla 5 жыл бұрын
Forget all that! Those FUJI IMAGES ARE AMAZING!!!!!!!!!! 😉
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Lol
@ogonzilla 5 жыл бұрын
Anuraj Bose 😁😁
@WatchmanNiel 5 жыл бұрын
Hahaha, we’re waiting for your collaboration and conversion of Manny Ortiz!
@saiyan_princestudios9790 5 жыл бұрын
Fuji is always amazing.
@V2classic75 5 жыл бұрын
It’s true there was no difference between full frame and AP-C between the 2 pics!! Great video
@SCVis 5 жыл бұрын
Tested this a while ago! Basically turn it off if you: - Have a fast aperture - Shoot over 1/500 - Shoot with artificial light (may cause banding) Although the shutter sound isn't too nice to listen to :(
@FortyTwoAnswerToEverything 4 жыл бұрын
when you say over 1/500, do you mean faster or slower than 1/500?
@LucaDeNardi94 4 жыл бұрын
@@FortyTwoAnswerToEverything I think he means faster, so from 1/500 to 1/8000
@GastonShutters 5 жыл бұрын
Yep. Electronic shutter always introduces weird artifacts when shooting with certain lights.as well. I disable it alway and use whenever is necessary. Great to see you grow this channel daily.
@user-fm5cs4ix9k 5 жыл бұрын
Hi from Kyiv Ukraine. There is also sometimes banding when using HSS on Godox when using EFCS at fast shutter speeds. This can happen when shooting wide open with not native lenses at around 1/2000 upwards. Not always but sometimes so to cure this you need to switch it off. Yes there is a difference in the Bokeh between on and off but this is subjective. Sometimes you maybe want more structure in the Bokeh so leave it on but switch it off if you want the back ground to be smoother. I look at this as a positive feature to give you a choice in the Bokeh effect than a negative point.
@k9.Unit. 5 жыл бұрын
I use a A7III for my concert photography and the e-front Curtain Shutter also causes banding on certain colors/frequencies of light emanating from LEDs (silent shooting is always off).
@TheReyesValdez94 5 жыл бұрын
K9_Unit I used a friends G85 for a concert and all the photos had banding across them. Later I learned that it was the electronic shutter. I tested this in my kitchen that has a fluorescent light. With the eshutter on you can see it and as soon as you switch to mechanical it goes away.
@GutoHernandes 5 жыл бұрын
TheReyesValdez94 the (full) electronic shutter has problems with certain LEDs, but I've never had any problem with the electronic front curtain (and second curtain mechanic), which is what causes the error in this video
@carlharper3442 5 жыл бұрын
Hell yeah man. I will the adjustment when I am shooting HSS. Crazy. Thanks man for keeping it 100.
@lucasjin3651 5 жыл бұрын
Man! Thank you so much for sharing this great info! I just changed the settings of my camera.
@trevspeaks3 4 жыл бұрын
Very interesting. I don't use electronic shutters since I'm still using dlr. I'm considering my first mirrorless camera since Canons R5 is out now. Good to know!! Thanks to you and your sub for this.
@alfredograndis 5 жыл бұрын
❤ seeing you progress and keeping us educated
@shootingstar405 5 жыл бұрын
kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rb2diteczby4gKs.html
@sachinmajotra9665 5 жыл бұрын
@@shootingstar405 don't ever do that again
@kaungkhantthiha6713 5 жыл бұрын
When in E curtain sync, I also got horizontal banding lines over 1/1000 with high speed sync
@ivonahumpalot538 5 жыл бұрын
I just had my first shoot with hss and didn't notice the banding until it was too late so on my next shoot I'm going to try it with e curtain off
@Billysykez 4 жыл бұрын
Turn off E curtain off for speeds higher than 1/400 (from experience)
@asaduzzamansunam5771 5 жыл бұрын
i had no idea. Because i haven’t use any mirror less camera in my life. I was also thinking about getting one. But now i have to dig down more aspects between mechanical shutter camera vs mirrorless camera. Thanks
@njrivetelite 3 жыл бұрын
This will be noted while shooting with my R5
@WillBarnwell 5 жыл бұрын
Super informative, thanks! That e-curtain is also the culprit for godox/flashpoint strobes not always firing (both below and above 1/1000) as well as some dark banding when using HSS. I just leave mine off 100% of the time. Happy holidays, Manny!
@IWTBFOY 5 жыл бұрын
Are you serious this just changed me life
@tnacrew 5 жыл бұрын
You're able to use your external flash with your electronic shutter?
@WillBarnwell 5 жыл бұрын
Juan, yes but not reliably. Strobes won’t fire about 1 out of 4 or 5 times. This is in a Sony A7RIII. Are you unable to use at all?
@vizXRL 5 жыл бұрын
This is true because many times I've had to turn off my electronic shutter because (thankfully) I'd noticed the banding lines on my images before I start post-processing.
@simeonkolev1231 5 жыл бұрын
The problem with the strobes is that with only one curtain working you can't sync properly at HSS. HSS is designed to work with both front and rear curtains.
@Todd_Kuhns 5 жыл бұрын
So, your conclusion is that the electronic shutter changes the aperture?
@saxonliw9502 5 жыл бұрын
Is it because of diffraction from the shutter blade that gives the additional blur? If this is the case, then the electronic shutter is giving the real bokeh. Can you try it with the mechanical shutter at sync speed (so that the effect of the shutter blade diffraction is minimised) vs the electronic shutter at any speed? I would believe that the electronic shutter would probably give a more consistent bokeh across all shutter speeds if my understand of the effect is correct.
@hvj100 5 жыл бұрын
I also noticed the Sony e-curtain caused banding in my photos. You should do a video on that too. It happened while shooting HSS on a low aperture lens. Solution was turning off the front e-curtain.
@karsonknudsen 5 жыл бұрын
1:51 I don’t think that’s how you say it 😂
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Karson K Let me ask Diana 🧐🤔😂😂😂
@LeeZavitz 5 жыл бұрын
hahaha I was gonna comment on that.
@uxo2255 5 жыл бұрын
lol
@Diminish12 5 жыл бұрын
Thats great Manny, u know what i discovered today?.. that i suck at Photography!.
@tobiasdavid3096 5 жыл бұрын
One of the greatest advises I got from Manny's videos: Never compare yourself.
@safwanshah3734 5 жыл бұрын
Keep learning dude. Don't sabotage and downgrade yourself.
@panhavornchhun1993 5 жыл бұрын
We all suck at the beginning. Spend as much time as you can with getting familiar with your gear. And absorb all the education on the style of images you want to create. I'm sure your images are not as bad as you think they are. It's the ones that think they dont suck are the ones putting out mediocre images. Keep at it only if you are happy doing it. Hit me up on Instagram @blindstig I'm very interested in you gallery now.
@TheJpags89 5 жыл бұрын
No such thing... keep practicing and make yourself better and push yourself.. trust me I was looking at old photos that I use to take compared to the photos I take now... night nd day difference.. just keep practicing and keep pushing!
@leonwong95 5 жыл бұрын
Keep practice! I'm still feel suck after a year plus into photography. Learning is a progress :) and that's where the fun is, you can never finish learning about photography. There's always more to discover
@user-kp4cz4xt8v 5 жыл бұрын
I think this is due to the synchronization of the electronic front curtain and the closing of the aperture. Could you find an old manual focus lens and adapt it on the mirrorless camera and try it again since the iris is controlled mechanically not electronically. See if this proofs my guess
@ClaytonChavez 5 жыл бұрын
This is so crazy! I haven’t use the electronic shutter much, but now I definitely won’t be unless I need to. Who would have even thought this would be a thing!
@frankiemacias5317 5 жыл бұрын
Amazing video as always Manny. You're one of the few KZfaq photographers that teaches us the little things that really make a difference. Thank you!
@PhilipReber 5 жыл бұрын
Congrats on 200k my man
@scout665 5 жыл бұрын
I didn’t like my electronic shutter results for a long time. I had wicked red banding when I was shooting college volleyball and dumped the e shutter entirely after that. Guess I got lucky and didn’t have to deal with this issue since. Thanks for the info.
@esonsei 5 жыл бұрын
On the Sony setting there’s an e front curtain shut and a silent shutter. The e front snaps the shutter once, whereas with the option disabled, the shutter snaps 3 times. E front curtain’s purpose is to eliminate shutter shock. Not sure if Manny is referring to mechanical shutter as in silent shooting off of e front curtain shutter off.
@rueben68 5 жыл бұрын
Congrats on the 200k subs brother! Great job
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks buddy
@JericTamayo 5 жыл бұрын
It's not the bokeh that matters, but the photo itself. I think both images look fine overall. But nontheless, the mechanical shutter photos do look better.
@bala1000mina Жыл бұрын
Very helpful! Thank you so much Manny!
@saiyan_princestudios9790 5 жыл бұрын
Some users were commenting asking what are the benefits or an e shutter or when to use it. So figured I would throw this out there for educational purposes. Basically the main reason to use one would be very bright sunlight and you want to shoot wide open. So say a wedding and they have it at the typical 11-2 time slot, during the summer that can be extremely harsh light, and it would be physically impossible to shoot anything wide open as it would greatly overexpose your pictures, unless you got a nice expensive filter on it. This is why almost photographers will just go into the woods for these moments for the shade. The only other real reason I see for using an e shutter is manual shutters have a life span. Sooner or later you will need to replace it if that’s all you ever use and sooner if you take a lot of pictures. Now if you’re constantly upgrading to the newest camera that may not matter to you. I personally love how fujifilm has a smart feature where it knows when to use manual shutter and when to use e-shutter. It auto turns itself on in the very bright sunlight with a fast prime wide open thus saving me from having to buy a very expensive filter for all of my lenses.
@JasonMorrisphotocinema 5 жыл бұрын
Interesting manny! Nice vid ma man
@andreasviker 5 жыл бұрын
I’m mind blown! Now my question is when should I use ES over MS? would you recommend disabling the electronic shutter altogether or just if your shutter speed is above 1/1000sec? Thanks Manny, you’re the G.O.A.T.
@davidromano2421 5 жыл бұрын
blog.kasson.com/?s=Shutter+shock
@JohnDunkelberg 5 жыл бұрын
I agree. I've used the ES for the quiet in a concert setting, in which case I'm in low light conditions and this high shutter speed related problem is not going to occur. So when do you want your camera to be silent, and you have huge amounts of light, I guess?
@EDCGadgets 5 жыл бұрын
I used to think about this all the time, when I owned my A7ii. - "Okey now the sun is out, I need to switch to mechanical". - "Okey now it's low light, I can switch to electronic so it's more silent and less annoying" - "Ohh now there is the sun again, let me switch back to mechanical" - "F*CK THIS SH*T, I AM SELLING MY SONY SYSTEM" And this is exactly what happened, after a few months of suffering. (I shoot outdoor portraits, using 1.4 and 1.2 lenses)
@JumpingWatermelons 5 жыл бұрын
Interesting. When I test myself I'll also be checking the subject. I've seen tests showing significantly better in-focus areas using the electronic shutter (because of small shake from the mechanical shutter).
@Grr8jon 3 жыл бұрын
Never even considered that. Nice catch.
@The_content_gawd 5 жыл бұрын
I literally just changed this setting today and here you are with a video 🙌🙌
@maf3695 5 жыл бұрын
Yooo Manny! I’m in a Best Buy in Delaware and in the Sony lens section there’s a picture of Diana. The one you took of her in the snow. I was I had ig to send it to you.
@dennisrkb 4 жыл бұрын
The bokeh doesn't change, you just have less contrast because of brighter overall exposure. My bet is if you normalize for exposure both shots will look identical. There's another reason not to use ES for anything involving even a little movement: sensor readout speed, which in the case of my x-e2 is 1/13th of a second for example.
@DuckyOpus 5 жыл бұрын
I think I'll be knocking out some testing on my own as well. Namely because the reason most people us the E-front curtain shutter in the first place is to up their sharpness, and we really didn't see much comparison on how sharp Diana was between the two. Some may be willing to swap that blur for sharpness if they can. Then again, if this is only happening over 1/1000 of a second, there may just be a distance blur thing going on. Going to find out! Thanks for the heads up!
@AlarmedKat 5 жыл бұрын
This is true. It is written in the user manual though. Also, again with Sony mirrorless, if you have a manual lens and you use electronic front curtain while under aperture priority, the exposure is going to be different in different parts of the image once you shoot past a certain fast shutter speed eg. half of the image is going to be over/under exposed.
@theprettydamned 5 жыл бұрын
Alternative view: you loved your shots and no one complained, so how important is 1.4 vs f/2? Maybe this is a chance to encourage lens manufacturers to release small, light, sharp primes.
@varunkamal91 2 жыл бұрын
They exist at f1.8
@audiolover 5 жыл бұрын
From Sony site: Set Electronic Front Curtain Shutter to OFF in the following situations. When shooting at a fast shutter speed with a large-caliber lens attached If you shoot images with Electronic Front Curtain Shutter set to ON, images may blur or be cut off, depending on the subject or shooting conditions. When shooting at a fast shutter speed If you shoot images with Electronic Front Curtain Shutter set to ON, the brightness of the image may be uneven, depending on the shooting conditions. When using Minolta/Konica Minolta lenses If you shoot images with Electronic Front Curtain Shutter set to ON, the camera may not get the proper exposure, or the brightness of the image may be uneven.
@Alex_Ochoa 5 жыл бұрын
dang, that's crazy! I always shoot with the mechanical shutter either way cause I've always felt like the photos do look better, I guess my feeling was right there is a slight difference in it. Plus the mechanical shutter feels better when shooting too haha
@phanendrakumar4077 5 жыл бұрын
I like your video short and straightforward, now a days people don't have much time to watch lengthy videos. Thanks and keep going
@virusj216 5 жыл бұрын
Dude! I had no idea this entire time. Thank you!
@GuillePozzi 5 жыл бұрын
I did some tests on my A9, and the results are the opposite on the bokeh. My results: - Better BOKEH on the Electronic - Electronic it has less light (but less than half a stop)
@RomanMestas 5 жыл бұрын
Wow. What a difference. Great video.
@aaronpeipert 5 жыл бұрын
Wow, this thought would never have crossed my mind, but this is very noticeable to me. Throwing all my mirrorless cameras in the trash and going back to classic DSLRs.
@denisetunnell 5 жыл бұрын
Manny using a Fuji! What is the photography world coming too?! 😂😂😂 jk
@acabrera916 5 жыл бұрын
Dam that's dope, thank you and your subscriber.
@EDCGadgets 5 жыл бұрын
This is EXACTLY the reason why I sold my Sony gear. Actually Manny, I have pointed this out months ago in one of your videos comments section. Regardless it is amazing, that finally a well knows KZfaqr creates a video about this (pretty serious) issue. I bought my 1.4 and 1.8 lenses to get the blur that they were designed for. So why did I leave the Sony system? Simple: I had to use mechanical shutter for almost all my shoots, and I needed to remember when to switch between them, depending on the lighting situation. Guys, admit: the cameras are much more enjoyable with electronic shutter. On my A7ii, it was a PAIN (literally a PAIN) to use the mechanical shutter all the time, because it was loud as hell, and the sound was annoying too, not to mention the longer blackout. I used it for a few months like that, and then I sold all my Sony gear, and switched to Fuji. On the Fuji side, there is almost no distortion with the electronic shutter (it's extremely minimal, does not worth mentioning)
@Zam919 5 жыл бұрын
I noticed the difference in the background bokeh immediately when I rented the Sony A9 and A73, my friends noticed it in my images too but my friends who shoot Sony told me it was technically impossible.
@southbaycommuter 5 жыл бұрын
Another practical reason for *not* using e-shutter when shooting HSS is you run a risk of banding. I make sure e shutter and "silent shooting" is disabled when shooting with my Xplor. I basically keep electronic shutter disabled on both my A7III and RIII unless I have a specific need to turn it on, like I'm inside shooting a church wedding and need "silent mode."
@MarlonKingShow 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks dude, never thought of this, didn't even realise a mirrorless would have a mechanical shutter option. Going to have to check my a6500 now.
@excelontumbocon17 5 жыл бұрын
Marlon King update?
@johnchappe315 5 жыл бұрын
Please don’t do a colour science video. That has been covered ad nauseasm. Colour science doesn’t matter if you shoot raw.
@jamespeirce2582 5 жыл бұрын
It’s been done to death, but I wouldn’t agree with the argument that it doesn’t matter if you shoot RAW. It’s easy to color correct shots from RAW without material degradation, but the baseline can impact editing time (e.g. someone appreciating or not appreciating Canon’s warmer skin tones).
@OptimaMrL 5 жыл бұрын
If someone spends that kind of money on a camera and shoots in JPEG, then they need a tutorial to help them with that issue !
@JeremyGalloway 5 жыл бұрын
Leo Man Why? Are you going to edit literally every shot you take in Lightroom? For professional work, of course yes. But for personal stuff? If I edited raw files for all the shots that I take every year I would never be able to get off the computer. So for a large portion of my personal work, I use Fuji’s film simulations. Once you get used to a camera you can nail your exposure SOOC most of the time. RAW is superior, but not always practical.
@OptimaMrL 5 жыл бұрын
Jeremy - yes, I edit every photo that’s worthwhile. I find myself returning to old raw files, editing them with newer styles as I mature with my editing style and techniques. I’ve been doing this for 10 years. Then again, I don’t take millions of photos - I try and make EVERY shot count, creating the photo in my head, before I shoot, when possible.
@Louis87777 5 жыл бұрын
James Peirce I don’t find that a convincing argument. How often do you find yourself editing from the ground up? Improving editing time is about having some base-presets one slaps on to then fine-tune. You prepare those once (sure, different situations, different presets sometimes) and you’re done.
@robertspinoso1722 5 жыл бұрын
As an X-t3 shooter, i thank you for the info. looking forward to the upcoming face-off!
@V4D2 5 жыл бұрын
thanks to everyone involved, for this info!
@AndersonLasso 5 жыл бұрын
I need to try this whit my Lumix G9
@bagery 5 жыл бұрын
How interesting you've made a video on that comment. When I saw it, it really rubbed me the wrong way, enough that I wanted to defend you for not being able to apply to every post. I am glad to see it has a happy ending and thank-you all for sharing this info.
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
HAHA thanks for your support! It was a really intriguing claim and I’m glad I went out and tested it myself
@ThomasWilliamson 5 жыл бұрын
Mind blown!! Can't believe we're only just finding this out! Thanks Manny, you're the man.
@andyto 5 жыл бұрын
Manny dropping gems
@fjaajf 5 жыл бұрын
Looking at my D850.... "i guess you never cheated on me then?..."
@IrondragonGamingYouTubeChannel 5 жыл бұрын
Lol was thinking the same thing with my 5dm4
@dpkdz 4 жыл бұрын
And me too with my phone's camera.
@youknowwho9247 4 жыл бұрын
The D850 has an EFCS option.
@photojoseph 5 жыл бұрын
Hey Manny, very interesting. Have you determined WHY though? I will run tests on LUMIX cameras and let you know what I find, but given the exposure shift it’d seem that going electronic means it is shooting at f/1.8 or f/2 instead of f/1.4. That would explain both the exposure shift and the bokeh change. It’d be an interesting next step to determine exactly what aperture it *is* shooting at, but staying in mechanical and manual exposure and stopping the lens down until you find a histogram match. PS - we met at Peter’s party in NY during PPE; reach out when you get a moment via twitter or email and let’s talk about that interview some more.
@bornofdata 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Manny
@bngr_bngr 5 жыл бұрын
PhotoJoseph I would think that the aperture you choose would be constant. The action of the electronic shutter is different than the mechanical. The electronic shutter is just not as smooth as the action of the mechanical shutter.
@ClevelandTerry 5 жыл бұрын
bngr bngr that should matter. Testing in manual is really the only way to be sure.
@jaroslavtacheci232 5 жыл бұрын
I tried with Lumix G9 and PL 42.5/1.2. (ISO100, 1/2000s, f/1.2) Three attempts MS, EFC, ES and three different bokeh - best, worse, worst
@seanbrucemedia5695 5 жыл бұрын
@@jaroslavtacheci232 Hmmm. Thanks for the heads up. (G9+Nocticron owner as well)
@sid_o_logy 5 жыл бұрын
Thanks Manny. Changing to mechanical shutter worked for me, also I didn't knew about this before. Thanks a ton!!
@rajmarathe1 5 жыл бұрын
Very good. I wasn't aware of this sneaky surprise for mirrorless. Thank you for sharing, I learned something new today!
@andgainingspeed 5 жыл бұрын
1:51 uh ... phrasing? LOL. 😅 Nice tip though.
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
LOL Very bad wording
@shifteleven 5 жыл бұрын
"Nice tip" - I see what you did there :D
@snapjacksonphotography 5 жыл бұрын
K. Adam Christensen HAHAHA!
@eldestructor01 5 жыл бұрын
@@shifteleven jesus christ!
@RomanMestas 5 жыл бұрын
I heard that and was like.. “maybe it’s just a Chicago thing. 🤷🏻♂️”
@mck-gr 5 жыл бұрын
I believe the softness of the normal shutter picture is due to mechanical movement of the body from the shutter actuation... If you compare the areas that sre in focus too you should be able to see that the image is softer there too , not just the bokeh... Mechanical looks better but that doesn't mean that the electronic is not 1.4 ..
@DiablyOo 5 жыл бұрын
So how do you explain the change in exposure?
@4KLive 5 жыл бұрын
Inaccurate shutter speed?
@mck-gr 5 жыл бұрын
@@DiablyOo There are a lot of checks to do to give out a correct answer about that as we are talking about high speeds there... Electronic shutter is more accurate in terms of speed as the processor clock is know and is divided to fractions so each time it takes exactly the same time.. On a mechanical one though , at such high speeds there may be a delay from the time the sensor clears the buffer tll the curtains open so if these are not perfectly aligned it makes an impact on exposure...When you use the mechanical shutter at such high speeds for a long period of time it degrades as it wears...The effect can't be seen when the speeds are slow cause the delay is not that high to affect the image... Thats a simple and maybe not 100% accurate explanation but i don't want to get into more technical details...
@kotence777 Жыл бұрын
Thank you! I shoot with vintage lens on XT30II. I will defenateli try to see if there is difference.
@kevin-parratt-artist 2 жыл бұрын
Very interesting! Thank you. Of course when using manual lenses, this is not a problem.
@petrub27 5 жыл бұрын
ok, but what Jason Lanier thinks about it?
@rasvigor_ 5 жыл бұрын
Damn.... Ahahahah
@IzukuMidoriya-yt6kd 5 жыл бұрын
:D
@EDCGadgets 5 жыл бұрын
Jason did not even reply to me, when I did a very thorough explanation about this issue under his comment section, 1 year ago. If you check out Jasons video, there are tons of occassions, when he is using ES, and the background look horrible. Everyone is ignoring this issue for some reason, Manny is the first big KZfaqr who finally created a video about it.
@Maxi86inAction 5 жыл бұрын
I use mechanical up to 1/8000s why wouldn't I?
@loimain05 5 жыл бұрын
Shooting weddings in complete silence
@Maxi86inAction 5 жыл бұрын
@@loimain05 that's a point 👌 I didn't shoot a wedding yet though
@jonramer8984 5 жыл бұрын
Mind blown ... I never thought that would make a difference. Thanks for the tip Manny
@vedarius 2 жыл бұрын
Thanks Manny, I couldn't imagine that switching to ES can reduce the recorded light amount! And even less expected could be the change in bokeh rendering!! Great of you to do this test!
@gbee8888 Жыл бұрын
Four years and still not corrected......
@PhotoMarlon Жыл бұрын
I was thinking the same, problem is people that don't know any better will see this and think it's the "electronic shutter" when in reality it's not! It's the e-Front Curtain Shutter setting that he is talking about.
@wimair_at 5 жыл бұрын
guys, the problem is not the e-shutter, its the e-first curtain. try it, you'll see the difference. I always shoot "fully electronic mode" or "fully mechanical" :-)
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Thing is my Sony A7RIII only gives me that option and I know for a lot of other people it’s the same. Also I tried using ONLY the fully electronic on the Fuji and noticed a small shift as well. Very minor though
@wimair_at 5 жыл бұрын
@@MannyOrtiz it is of course. I kinda feel a bit cheatet on too. but in terms of "bokeballs" and the back/foreground smoothness the problem is solved for me when I use silent shutter OR fully mechanical. I just dont use e-first curtain anymore. it's a thing on my "old" A7s and also on my A7iii - I just wonder nobody noticed it earlier :-)
@David141071 5 жыл бұрын
Bernhard Wimair this just solved a mystery for me, thank you. So what I understand is: just go full mechanical or silent, and don’t look back.
@wimair_at 5 жыл бұрын
@@David141071 thats what I do :)
@rikutalvio 5 жыл бұрын
@@MannyOrtiz On a Sony, silent shooting = fully electronic.
@AznKenshin 5 жыл бұрын
Wow man. Owning up to a realization honestly and helping others as well. Subbed.
@BreakyourboundariesTv 5 жыл бұрын
This is fascinating. I never would have thought of this. My question is does having it on mechanical shutter create any type of disadvantage, or should it be left off at all times?
@MehmetKozal 4 жыл бұрын
[Late Reply.] Mechanical Shutter creates shutter shock that may cause blurry photos and drop in detail. I did some tests some time ago on objects that have text on them and can confirm it happens.
@rumporridge1 5 жыл бұрын
“What u talkin bout Willis” lol. I’m a DSLR shooter cuz. What’s an e-shutter!
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Sorry to hear that man 😂😂😂
@RealRaynedance 5 жыл бұрын
*Some modern DSLRs have an electronic front curtain too. You just need to be using live view. The D850 is special in that it can also use it in its standard quiet modes.
@rumporridge1 5 жыл бұрын
Azenturi thanks bro. This is a topic I clearly need to study up on.
@TheBronze33 5 жыл бұрын
@@MannyOrtiz I guess your hands can't handle a proper camera.
@bafab00ey 5 жыл бұрын
@@TheBronze33 yeah definitely it.....
@beatmixer0097 5 жыл бұрын
So why not just shoot within the cameras max mechanical shutter speed at 1/8000. Don't models prefer the mechanical sound during shoots? I suppose silent shutter for times when it's needed but if you're outdoors like you were in that snow shoot, just stay in mechanical. Definitely informative but seems like an easy solution, no?
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Michael these little things are easily over looked when you are on location.
@brettnfk 5 жыл бұрын
The electronic front curtain still produces a single click. I believe it starts to capture the image electronically then finishes with the shutter. With it turned off you get what sounds more like a double click, which is the normal shutter in action. Then in full silent you get no click at all.
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Gardigo Front ecurtain shutter
@brettnfk 5 жыл бұрын
Electronic front curtain is what's pointed out here, but I'm assuming the results would be similar for silent shooting too. But there are still times when giving up some bokeh and light is probably worth it for silent shooting.
@PavelR2 5 жыл бұрын
@@brettnfk Silent shooting does not suffer this problem because resetting the pixels and reading the pixels is done at the same level (sensor plane) and the same timing - shutter speed. Electronic first curtain shutter is the problem because some pixels are reset too late to maintain shutter speed and the light rays hitting the sensor with relatively big angle are blocked by 2nd. curtain.
@ClaudioDesideriFilms 3 жыл бұрын
Crazy, thanks for that. I usually shoot at less than 1/1000 but it's good to know for the future!
@CJbanning 5 жыл бұрын
I enjoy the video. F Stop VS T*, you might have an f-stop that's 1.4 but if you have the same 1.4 lens but it has a better t stop you'll still see better light shift as well. Something you might want to look into t-stop is a powerful thing to understand
@LeeZavitz 5 жыл бұрын
Weirrrrd
@shifteleven 5 жыл бұрын
Thankfully Fuji has a setting to automatically switch from EF to MS if the shutter speed goes beyond 1/2000th of a sec.
@BiscuitLazers44 5 жыл бұрын
Petition for Sony to add a function that automatically turns mechanical shutter on at 1/1000th or higher, and off for anything below that.
@iseewood 3 жыл бұрын
Mechanical shutter is slower. For example, the Sony A1 can shoot 30 fps with electronic but only 10 fps with mechanical. Best if photographers know the trade-offs and plan accordingly. If you’re a sport or birding photographer your going to choose fps over background blur.
@adamwestphoto 11 ай бұрын
@@iseewood I think it's best if photographers have the choice to say at what shutter speed EFCS is auto turned off. example. EFCS OFF when shutter hits 1/1000 or higher in Aperture priority mode. Fuji can do it, why not Sony?
@mscottc1964 4 жыл бұрын
Manny, great video as I had not thought of this for how it affects the bokeh on my portraits, thanks. HOWEVER, you should put a better disclaimer in the video warning of the need to put EFCS back on for photos other than wide aperture portraits (and that turning it off not only can blur your backgrounds more but also slightly blurs your subject too). EFCS is not sharpening your bokeh, it is removing the (usually negative) cause which is shutter shock. Your bokeh is better because the mechanical shutter is causing camera shake and blurs the image (which is just more noticeable in the bokeh since already blurry but it also blurring your subject some but harder to see since very sharp to begin with). Is turning it off effective to increase the bokeh blur, yes, but is negative in other ways. And the majority of other types of photography EFCS should be left on!
@SilatShooter 5 жыл бұрын
Really intriguing video! I'm a Sony A9 shooter and shoot essentially 100% in Electronic shutter. Now you have me wondering. I love the new viewfinder blackout, that would be hard to give up.
@MannyOrtiz 5 жыл бұрын
Na man is still use the E shutter. I loved it on the A9
@pressed2 5 жыл бұрын
I don't have a mirrorless. I just enjoy the videos lol #Nikon fam
@SIK50H 5 жыл бұрын
I’m still in dslr 😫😫 I feel behind lol jk
@johnhudgeons5283 3 жыл бұрын
Just got my Canon R5 and this video will help me use better settings for different situations. Thanks Manny, & insistent subscriber.
@mariuscpeter 5 жыл бұрын
Manny, as a Fuji shooter, I would recommend you to test the Fuji files using Capture One. There a free version, Fuji Express. The reason is the worms and artifacts Lr is giving you when it's reading the fuji raws. You can look on KZfaq, there plenty of videos on this matter.
@royandescartes 5 жыл бұрын
My god. It's just like paying for a 64gb SD card and you see 56GB available when you pop it on your laptop. Same for a thumb drive and a HDD and anything like that. Thieves everywhere man.
@maddogmorgan1 5 жыл бұрын
So Manny "I'm a professional photographer and kind of a big thing on the internet/Influencer" Ortiz is just finding this out now...Stay tuned for "Why you should shoot RAW"
@fliptight 5 жыл бұрын
Probably because he spends this days shooting and getting paid for it instead of reading the internets and not getting paid for it
@swapnilkapadia 5 жыл бұрын
Great finding! Peta Pixel should post this on their website and companies like sony, Fujifilm should come up with the reasons atleast
@artmaltman 4 жыл бұрын
Fascinating. Would never have guessed!
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