same. i use a treadmill and im around 3.5 mph. I run at 5 mph and walk at 3mph.

I've pretty much given up on the idea of running in zone 2. It's either I walk fast or I go into zone 3 once I jog. I'm going to try hopping on a bike trainer on the days I'm supposed to be doing easy runs or recovery runs and hit some zone 2 like that and then go for a run afterwards

I would use Matt Fitzgerald, 80/20 book to set zones. Do not use percentage of maximum heartrate where you subtract your age from a number. Adding in some faster runs following the 80/20 philosophy will strengthen your heart and make it easier to keep your heart rate in zone 2.

I literally have to jog slower than I walk but then I go to 145bpm Then I switch to walking FASTER than I was jogging and my hr goes to 115

At the cardio shape you’re in now, zone 2 training shouldn’t be a make or break for you. Just focus on running consistently and adding mileage week by week slowly. If your hr seems high, that’s fine. The consistency will eventually get you to a place where you can train in zone 2 comfortably

Sometimes you just have to stick it out and drop the ego. Spot on.

Stick with it. Took me 3 months to see any improvement. Try and find long hills to run down to keep your leg turnover going, then walk back up keeping in your HR zone. I was walking loads at the start.

🤣 Sorry for laughing but I can so relate! I tried MAF heart rate training several years and some old guy with saggy skin and wrinkles shuffled past me with a huge grin on his face. Needless to say, my heart rate soared because I was so frustrated! A lot of people have had great results sticking with it but it's not for me. It took all the joy out of running. I do run slower on my long runs and easy days now but I prefer going by perceived effort.

@@flowerfaeri Ha ha, me too. I have a test. As long as I can count out loud, fast to 30 ( 52 syllables ), throughout the run, I'm happy 😊 .

100% agree. I gave up on running in zone 2 and swapped to zone 2 on a rower (way easier) then push myself more when I run.

​@flowerfaeri agreed on perceived effort. Perceived effort wise, I'm usually running "easy" at 9 minute pace but when I'm aiming for low heart rate, I'm around ~11... my marathon pace is 7:45....

Great to hear! That’s the aim of this channel is to be clear about the need to knows and what is going on with performance. Any areas you’d like to hear more about please let me know, always looking for ideas that answer specific questions for people like yourself watchcng the videos.

This is a really common line of thinking. The point of this video is to highlight that approaches like you’ve mentioned are a bit hit and miss. Run/Walk doesn’t really solve any problem and running too high doesn’t necessarily drive the adaptation required to improve fitness and get the HR down over the long run. I’m highlighting it’s largely a form issue which is hard to deep dive on given there isn’t a perfect mould for everyone. Guidelines yes, exact template no. I would say almost all amateur through even elite runners have a deficiency in their technique (ie imbalance, lacking coordination etc). Most target the wrong starting point though, going for cadence or foot contact change rather than finding the root cause which more often than not is in the upper body/arm swing.

any improvements?

I did the same thing for 4 months and it worked pretty well. I went down from running 300 to 350k per month to around 200k while increasing my cycling mileage up to 400 and 450k. During the fourth month I ran just 68k, but I felt stronger and I was able to run faster for longer distances while feeling fresh afterwards.

Absolutely it will impact. Your thermoregulatory systems (ie internal cooling) works in overdrive during hot conditions and a key component is increased blood flow to the skin surface to enable more effective cooling via both sweat/evaporative cooling and radiation of heat. Important to ensure you adjust pacing appropriately in the warmer conditions to avoid over doing it in zone 2!

Then you crawl...mate. Your heart don't know you are crawling !!!

This is super common. Ideally your form should be fundamentally the same you just increase or decrease the speed accordingly. Cadence is a tricky one because it’s an outcome of your form, not the root cause/solution. You can change your cadence and still have the same issues. Adjusting your form may cause a cadence increase though. If you feel like your landing heavy, it might be because you haven’t had enough flight phase so you’re rushing that foot down, this potentially stems from an imbalance in your stride which can sometimes be solved by improving your arm swing.

@@NJSportScience Thanks for the reply. I had a Z2 scheduled for last night and ran on the lower end of Z2 HR (125bpm @ 9:50-10:10/mile pacing) which ended up actually having a few of the miles actually in Z1. I feel like I got beat up! LOL I have had some recommend high stack shoes thinking this will alleviate my pains at slow miles but I know this will just redirect the stress of my improper form to other places. Probably time for a gait analysis/video at some slower paces.

Contact the Balanced Runner (check video description for links) he does video call sessions, 1000% recommmend.

Sleep is a big contributor. Definitely a big aid to having a really restorative recovery ready for the next session(s). Can’t underestimate the influence of hydration as well. Not just what you’re losing/replenishing during a session but what’s your day to day hydration like outside your training. Definitely important factors to consider.

Probably easiest for me to talk through this on my Live Q&A. I'll answer it there and keep an eye out for the replay which will go up as soon as the live has ended.

@@NJSportScience Thanks Nick. I'm arranging lab testing so I can define my current fitness levels and heart rate zones. No point doing this sort of training without the numbers

It will take several months put that Zone 2 run will get "faster". You won't feel any different but your distance covered will increase (faster time). I've increase 20% distance in two months with the same 70min run in zone 2.

Haven’t looked into it. Care to give us a quick summary of the concept?

In a very general sense it’ll help develop overall aerobic capacity. At some point you still need to run to get better at running. The missing calf/achilles function in cycling is a big component to running economy and overall performance. If you use it as “top up” volume then it can be fairly effective. Especially if you struggle with high weekly running volume, off legs supplementary conditioning is a great way to go.

Honestly KZfaq is a great place to start. Just search for exactly what you want to know and I’m sure there’s a video covering that feature. Or otherwise you generally can find some good info on google. Is there anything specifically you want to know?

Economy in cycling comes down to your bike fit, component choices/drivetrain losses, rolling and wind resistances and the influence that has largely on your cadence. However much much easier to get most of those factors dialed in that allows you to select the most comfortable or your preferred cadence to be the most economical and therefore eliminates most of the issue we discuss in this video. Cycling is far more simple in that once you nail those factors you’re locked into a fixed position (for the most part) where as running will always have some form of variability each step. Unless you’re trying to force a cadence that isn’t a preferred cadence, I very rarely see or hear reports of these HR struggles in cycling.

My concern is always with the word “calculate”. How did you calculate it? If you haven’t already, and lab testing isn’t an option for you/not that easy to access, go out and start jogging really really slow, every 3mins just lift the pace a small amount 10-15s/km. To identify the upper limit of Z2 you should either: A) Talk test - no longer able to hold a conversation easily. B) Breath test - start with nasal only breathing, when you can’t resist the urge to breathe out through your mouth then use that corresponding HR/pace. I find both those methods work better than any calculator and it’s a pretty simple test to run.

@@NJSportScience Forgive me if I made some mistakes here, but I just calculated using the max HR I had registered, which corresponded pretty well with that formula of 220 - age and which got me a max HR of 195. Because it corresponded so well, I didn't even think twice about it. I haven't got a watch, of anything like that, so I have no real information on resting HR. Hoping to get one soon. As for the tests to determine the upper limit of Z2, I went out for a run to try and put them to practice and: - As for the task test, i find that there's a big range of a HR zone where I can say about 8 to 10 words and have then to take a breather and only after can I task again. Because I run alone I don't really know if this can be considered as being able to hold a conversation or not. - The breath test really wasn't hepful for me. I could resist the urge to breathe out through the mouth all the way to about a 165 HR. I doubt my Zone 2 ends there? But again, I'm not sure. I'm hoping to do lab testing sometime later this year. Really seems like the best option.

@@pedrosgarden Interested to know about your progress in finding the right zone. Similar specs for me - 196 highest achieved heart rate being in my late 20ies. Nose breathing not working for me, as I can breathe through my nose up to 170 ((garmin) lactate treshold at 175). z1 I can do 6-7 steps breathing in, 6-7 out. z2 it´s 5in/5out. z 3-4 it´s 3-4/3-4 and only really at 10k pace later on in a race or during 5k efforts/higher I breathe through my nose. This seems to be unusual, comparing with other people in my running club. I tend to feel something about my effort when talking changing at around 153 bpm and so I am using this as my upper limit of z2 atm, still feels pretty diffuse - especially an estimation of the lower end of z2.

Came to this vid today and I have the same struggle with finding the right HR. My Z2 should be somewhat between 116-130 but I can hold nasal breathing for 50-60min at 150/155 BPM which should (according to online calculators) be my Z3 or even Z4. That’s so confusing. Have you guys made any progress in the last month you‘d like to share?

imo z3 is fine

The questions I start with are 1) How did you determine your Zone 2 initially? 2) What are you doing to improve your top end (ie VO2max) to bring the speed up via a different mechanism?

8:00 min/km simply still too fast for you then. i started out running like a month ago, and im in so bad shape i cant run faster then 10:00-10:30/km if i want my heart rate to not go over 135, and i feel like im barely moving faster then walking speed:(

@@goldeneagle256 personaly, I just do z2 on a bike, I think its working for me because now my heart rate is 10bpm lower than it was before at 8min/km

13km/h is already out of Z2 for a lot of people.

​@@tiagodagostinii think he meant 13:00/km

No quite. Garmin use a slightly different zone system given it’s % based which means depending on how you’ve trained etc it changes. I refer to Zone 2 as garmin does for Zone 2 and the first half of Zone 3. The “endurance zone” on Garmin I often find leaves you a bit tempo like at the upper end.

@@NJSportScience ah ok. That gels with my experience then. Proper into zone 2 is feeling very easy. But my comfortable conversation pace is often in that upper2/lower 3 zone and yes upper 3, you start to know that you're working.

Great city 👌🏻

It will target pretty much all of those adaptations. Most of the structural changes going on in the body happen with accumulation of volume based training over time. The processes you describe are signaled largely by long continuous training and Zone 2 (in a 5 Zone system) is where you’ll find the value. Consistency is key.

@@NJSportScience thank you!

No worries, happy to help! Hope you’re enjoying the channel!

Why? Just an example

Kms not miles maybe

Definitely kms

@@NJSportScience I can only get faster than 5mins if I’m pegging it downhill 😅

I hear what you’re saying. 5min/k = 12kmph and 5:30min/k = Just under 11. It’s definitely above my zone 2 running pace as well. In late 2020 I run 13.20km at an average speed of 12.6kmph with an average HR of 165, and that’s one of my better sessions. My best was about 8 years ago where I run a 5:50 mile. In professional boxing that’s considered a “good standard”. I do not consider myself to be a good natural runner but the important thing is that you personally get something out of it. I just like to test myself occasionally, and keep fit. It’s not really essential what anyone else’s stats are and how that relates to your situation e.g. genetics, health, training history etc. There is a good book called Who Taught You How to Run? : Run Better, Run Faster, Prevent Injury by Mike Antoniades. It’s cheap, an easy read and it’ll definitely help.

What because demonstrating that a common issue is runners fall into an technique that isn’t economical which blows out HR unnecessarily and this is a key area to address wasn’t more practical than just saying “maybe you should just run slower”…. Ok champ

Talking about over simplifying things.... a lot of people suffer from a medical condition called Itriedrunningslowonetimeandthenextdayiwasntfastersoitdidnoteorkformeandalsoagrandmapassedmewithherstrolerandnowmyegoishurteritis. Also known as Ego. You should take this stuff seriously. It's a real thing.

@@GTE_Channel I definitely know it's a real thing, that's why the majority of my training is in zone 2. And I have reaped the benefits from it. It took several months to really start to manifest. But I do think everyone expects immediate results from things anymore. Basically what your comical term means. But the one question I really have is why is it so hard for people? And you also answered that. It's the Ego. Once that is set aside....your performance will begin to skyrocket. I had a hard time admitting to myself at first that running that slow or I should say slower than normal wasn't being weak but rather smart. I'm happy I have learned to enjoy a slower zone 2 pace.

@@therangersinger I fully agree! My comment was ment as pure sarcasm, but not directed to you, I'm sorry if I made it sound like that.

@@GTE_Channel no worries I didn't take it that way 🤣

Yes and no, largely I agree here there’s an element of sticking it out. However as discussed in the video poor economy (technique related) is like a handbrake which just fuels that frustration. So sometimes there’s solutions to help stay in Zone 2 more easily, sometimes it’s just a case of ego aside and get it done. The important part is actually knowing accurately what zone 2 means for you first!

Pretty short comment that makes me think you “didn’t watch/listen to anything else in the video…” Plenty of people struggle with keeping HR down in Z2. I’m not afraid to admit I have that same challenge. If you did watch the whole thing, you’ll know a typical reason is due to the running technique/economy component. Trying to run slow enough to keep the HR down, but as an unintended side effect, at times not generating enough of a running gait which negatively impacts economy and bumps HR up. It’s a negative cycle, frustrating to break without understanding and rectifying the issue at the cause, not the output.

Hahaha! 😂 to be honest, I’m with you on that, sometimes Z2 is a grind and if you’re like me going fast is way more fun.

Please provide the evidence to support walking is a better strategy than running if you want to be a better runner…

If you’re meaning Z2 in a 5-Zone system, I strongly disagree and so does the research unfortunately.