Will it take a 5x86? Restoration & Upgrades. IBM Aptiva 2144 Multimedia PC. 486DX2-66 with VLB

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Epictronics

Epictronics

Жыл бұрын

One of IBMs best looking vintage PCs restored & upgraded. How fast will it go? Testing with a socket blaster
The PS/1 Overclocking project here: • You're not going to be...
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Tools I regularly use
DeoxIT D5 Contact Cleaner
Hanstar 861DW Rework Station
Pro'sKit SS-331 Desoldering Station
UNI-T UT61E Auto Ranging Multimeter
UNI-T UT890D Manual Ranging Multimeter
MESR-100 mk2 ESR meeter
PINECIL Soldering Iron
PinePowerPSU
TS-100 Soldering Iron
AMTECH NC-559-ASM Flux
MaAnt Grinding Pen
Multicore 60/40. 0.38mm and 0.5mm solder
TL866 II Plus Programmer
Tektronix 2246A 100 MHz four-channel analog scope
PCBs from PCBWay.com :)
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patreon.com/Epictronics
Join me on Twitter: / epictronics1
Music by Karl Casey @ White Bat Audio

Пікірлер: 99
@MrArmadaskier4123
@MrArmadaskier4123 Жыл бұрын
This is like a brother channel to Necroware and I absolutely love it
@vincetaylor6126
@vincetaylor6126 Жыл бұрын
sam and max hit the road was such a great game back in the day
@joshuat502
@joshuat502 Жыл бұрын
Woah I can’t believe this channel only has 9,000 subs I just subscribed because of the amazing info and production quality keep it up and good luck sending love from London 😊
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Thank you : ) I actually spent 1997 in London, up in Marylebone. Although, I was mostly just drinking Guinness and smoking JPS haha good times, great city!
@otakumw
@otakumw Жыл бұрын
Totally agree. Much better production quality then many of the much larger channels. But don‘t give up. At some point it will start to grow when it gets picked up by the algorithms.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
@@otakumw Thank you
@davidp4456
@davidp4456 Жыл бұрын
You have another sub ❤️!
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
@@davidp4456 Welcome to the show :)
@IcySon55
@IcySon55 Жыл бұрын
Ahhh, Aptivas... My childhood PC was an Aptiva 2136 which I recently located and fully restored beyond its original parts! Back in 96 I had the 2136 with 32MB of ram, a Pentium MMX 166 and the IBM Crystal based sound card, notably with the IBM Aptiva S-W1/C - Wavetable dautgherboard. It took quite some time to track down both a working 2136 and the S-W1/C, but eventually I did and now it's happily running Windows 95 just as it was in the late 90s because I still had my recovery discs!
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Awesome. The recovery disks are often the hardest part to find for some of these vintage projects
@IcySon55
@IcySon55 Жыл бұрын
The upgrades were 128MB of ram, a Voodoo3 3000 PCI and a Pentium MMX 233. The fastest CPU the machine can handle natively voltage wise, although it recognizes it as 200Mhz.
@LuisGuzmanJr
@LuisGuzmanJr Жыл бұрын
You have the best content on the 90s IBM "IBM compatible clones" 😉 on KZfaq.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Thank you :)
@stepanrumyantsev6098
@stepanrumyantsev6098 11 ай бұрын
Wow! Thank you very much for the video, was a pure joy to watch. I got a very similar IBM Aptiva in the same case back in late 1995 - early 1996 but with a Cyrix 5x86 at 100 MHz inside (when I saw 5x86 in the title I though you will be installing this CPU as it is natively supported). My motherboard layout was similar to the VLB one from your video, I remember this because in 2001 or so I upgraded the RAM to 40 MB from stock 8 MB (which allowed to finally install Windows 98) and maxed out the cache (which made visible difference in OS responsiveness and improved loading time in some games) and the RAM slots and cache sockets looked identical to yours. Amazing quirk about these Aptivas (and other IBM PCs of this era) is RapidResume which is essentially modern hybernation - that was mind blowing in mid 90s at least to me. OS boot taking like 4-5 seconds from compeletely off state bringing you exactly where you have left off with all the applications and windows restored. But that required the OEM version of Windows 95 from IBM with some additional software to enable it, not sure if you can make it work on a regular Windows 95. Also I had a very similar display but the model was IBM G41 - I think it is identical other than the dispay controls that were rubber buttons instead of the knobs behind the door that you have. But I saw your display in all the marketing materials that came with my Aptiva so apparently that was the default option. Thanks again for the video!
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 11 ай бұрын
Thanks!
@AmstradExin
@AmstradExin Жыл бұрын
I had a PS/1 for a loong time. It had a 486DX 33 and I upgraded it to a DX2/66 and 24MB RAM. I ran Windows 98 on it and it took 6 hours to install.
@michaelblair5566
@michaelblair5566 Жыл бұрын
I used to repair Aptivas in this era.
@BigBadBench
@BigBadBench Жыл бұрын
Nice work, Love the performance documentation of each of the changes. Those flip down fronts are sexy!
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Thanks John, yeah, this machines is a real looker! Now let's figure out how to make it go over 40FPS :)
@CobraTheSpacePirate
@CobraTheSpacePirate Жыл бұрын
I bought that PC used when I was living in Japan in 1998! I was programming with tinyC and programming fire demos and other graphic stuff for hobby fun. I spent time at the international center on the internet downloading stuff to floppy drives to take home. LOL!
@richardestes6499
@richardestes6499 11 ай бұрын
Besides Ambra, Aptiva's other contemporary was the ValuePoint series. My elementary school had a bunch of them, and they all used a CRT that looked just like that one.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 11 ай бұрын
I've got a ValuePoint with a matching display lined up for a video. Should make for an interesting comparison with the Aptiva and the PC series
@datPinto
@datPinto Жыл бұрын
Love these machines and the PS/1's... Had a PS/1 Consultant myself... 486 sx 25 mhz, 4 meg ram, 170 MB hard disk...
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Agree, I noticed that there was an identical machine to the PS/1 in this vid with a consultant badge. My PS/1 has a 486SX25 badge instead. Seems to be a marketing thing.
@joetheman74
@joetheman74 5 ай бұрын
I would have like to see you solder cache and any extra necessary chips to get it working to the other board and run it with the AM5X86. I am curious to see if it would beat the more expensive board if it had cache installed.
@m4rgin4l
@m4rgin4l Жыл бұрын
I had never seen this particular design on IBM PCs. I love it!
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
It's a real looker. If we can make it faster than the PS/1 It will be one of my favourites :)
@antonioesposito585
@antonioesposito585 Жыл бұрын
I have an aptiva 2144-921 with a detachable VRM inserted in the connector "filled with jumpers" . In my experience amd 5x86 works very slow in aptiva, otherwise cyrix 5x86.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Interesting, I'll try out the Cyrix and see what score I get. Thanks
@Shand1982
@Shand1982 Жыл бұрын
Always loved these desktop Aptivas, I have a similar era Aptiva M series tower, 1996, Pentium 120 with Mwave card running Win 95. I love the M series tower, but the desktop is just a nice clean design. I had a much earlier 386sx PS1 'Consultant' based on the same chassis in the desktop form factor, a lovely neat machine but sadly the motherboard completely died. I also have a PS1 tower, DX33. Awesome video, great work, thank you!
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Thank you, I have made some videos about the PS/1 tower too :)
@user-ci4zq8sw4l
@user-ci4zq8sw4l 9 ай бұрын
I'm a little late to the party, but I have a PC330 DX4-100 (model 6571), which uses the same motherboard as the second (VLB) machine here. Some notes from my tinkering: The VRM header (filled jumper block) takes a small daughterboard with a bog-standard linear regulator and heatsink. These are notorious for cracked solder joints. I can probably get a pinout / photos if interested, though IIRC it's pretty obvious. The opti chipset is a "combo", supporting either VLB/ISA or PCI/ISA risers. I've never actually seen the latter though. These boards take up to 128MB(!) of RAM, and the onboard video memory is mapped right above that so you can even use it all without 16M memory hole shenanigans. I have never managed to get any write-back enabled CPU (eg. am5x86) to run, my BIOS (latest available) stalls with "cache fail" or something to that effect. IBM revision notes state: "1779 Writeback support added (LATER TAKEN OUT) System will only support L1 writethru mode only" IIRC this had something to do with instability running OS/2. If anyone has a BIOS image with WB support, please gimme. The lack of WB L1 really nerfs performance. Correct memory manager setup for DOS can be annoying, my notes in config.sys say: "IBM manual specifies X=C000-C7FF I=C800-EFFF If no shared RAM adapters installed, I=B000-B7FF is mono video area and may be included in most cases." The IBM SurePath BIOS has some weird drive size limitation (somewhere 1
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 9 ай бұрын
Let's hope someone can hack the BIOS. These machines deserve a 5x86
@Chris-yc3mm
@Chris-yc3mm Жыл бұрын
Ibm went through a lot of motherboard revisions for these late ps/1 / early aptivas
@retrogamer33
@retrogamer33 Жыл бұрын
That is the exact system my dad's friend bought back in the day. He thought he was the bee's knee's
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
He was :) Good on him
@shadowtheimpure
@shadowtheimpure Жыл бұрын
That connector on the higher-end board looks like its for a VRM module to allow the installation of a multi-voltage CPU.
@armorgeddon
@armorgeddon 6 ай бұрын
Judging just by the front that CD-ROM drive is made by Mitsumi.
@hgbugalou
@hgbugalou Жыл бұрын
The wierd header is likely for a voltage regulator board for different voltage cpus.
@cobrag0318
@cobrag0318 Жыл бұрын
Having had a AMD 5x86 in the past, with its own adapter PCB, I can recall there was a jumper setting for which cache mode you needed, write back or write through. Ideally, you'd want the faster of the 2, but some machines acted up or just didn't boot with it, and you'd have to select the other. Maybe check to see which cache type the CPU is trying to use, and see if you can force the other mode?
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
The socket blaster and the MOBO doesn't have that feature. I'll do some reading and see what can be done, thanks
@adrianptorres
@adrianptorres Жыл бұрын
I recommend adding a l2 cache to get better frame rates
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
I don't have the manual to check, but I think we maxed out the L2
@darthtripedacus1
@darthtripedacus1 Жыл бұрын
I would guess that odd socket is for a power regulator for newer model CPUs
@dawnmitchell8213
@dawnmitchell8213 Жыл бұрын
Had I known there would be a market for these old PC’s in the future (this day and age) I wouldn’t have thrown away the hundreds that I did as they came through my shop.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, we all made the same mistake. Let's take care of the ones that got away
@thedopplereffect00
@thedopplereffect00 Жыл бұрын
You think that's low end? My first multimedia PC was an IBM PS/2. It only ran at 25 Mhz, with 4MB RAM. still was enough to play games like Doom and King's Quest 6
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
If it can play KQ6 it's great :) My first WinTel was a 286 : )
@user-wj9xq7ig2v
@user-wj9xq7ig2v Жыл бұрын
Why do you gotta go and make things so complicated by Avril Lavigne comes to mind when working on an ibm
@doodles113
@doodles113 Жыл бұрын
The first board (type C1) is an evolution of the PS1 board (type B1). The second board (type F1, if memory serves me well) requires a VRM plugged in place over the block of jumpers right below of the processor socket to recognize fastest processors . The 55 in front of the serial number indicates the country of origin of the machine.... 23-US,78-Mexico,82-Brazil,41-Indonesia,55-Greenock,Scotland
@darthtripedacus1
@darthtripedacus1 Жыл бұрын
NecroWare makes a modern one. Very nice and open source
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Great. If I can find a VRM we could try without the SB. I don't think the SB is causing this issue though.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
@@darthtripedacus1 Is this a standardized VRM socket?
@thedungeondelver
@thedungeondelver Жыл бұрын
Also: might be a good candidate for a VLB 3d card if you have one to hand.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
I wish I did
@looks-suspicious
@looks-suspicious Жыл бұрын
VLB 3d?? Can you explain?
@thedungeondelver
@thedungeondelver Жыл бұрын
@@looks-suspicious Sure. Late in VLB's life but early in 3d accelerator card tech history there was an overlap period. There was the 3d Blaster VLB, which was based around the GLint 300; fairly expensive for the time (I think it was around $400).
@looks-suspicious
@looks-suspicious Жыл бұрын
@thedungeondelver I just realised, Clint made a video about that card two years ago... I completely forgot.
@clavius5734
@clavius5734 Жыл бұрын
Could you share where you found the jumper settings to go to 33MHZ on the slower board? I've got a PS/2 76i from a year earlier that runs at 25MHz fsb, and flatout refuses to boot with a different crystal, faster or slower.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Awesome, I have a respectable stack of PS/2s but I have never come across a 76i. I just googled the p/n. That being said, www.ardent-tool.com/ is the best resource for PS/2 stuff. Good luck with the project
@tomiluukkonen4035
@tomiluukkonen4035 Жыл бұрын
Just because curiosity, did you try overclocking that MB-installed Cirrus w/ MCLK? I never tried Cirrus-overclocking with MB built-in chips, but I overclocked many Cirrus-based cards back then. And it actually helped in some 2D-era games. Same with early S3-cards.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Yes, I overclocked my PS/1 with onboard CL to 40MHz here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/icmghqWUsrPZiGg.html
@AntonyTCurtis
@AntonyTCurtis Жыл бұрын
CL-GD5429 is a zero wait state 16bit VLB card... The CL-GD5430 has wait states as it is Cirrus Logic entry level 32bit VLB. You could try replacing the 5430 with a 5436 chip as that is a faster device but should be pin compatible.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 11 ай бұрын
I might try that, thanks!
@Geomanb
@Geomanb 11 ай бұрын
I have got exactly the same Aptiva and wants to upgrade the cache
@TheChimeraMan
@TheChimeraMan 6 ай бұрын
Any luck with the cache upgrade
@Geomanb
@Geomanb 6 ай бұрын
not yet@@TheChimeraMan
@antonioesposito585
@antonioesposito585 Жыл бұрын
Bios is very similar to PS1 late models. Maybe may it works on Ps1 as an update to overcome HDD limits?
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
The board is very different, but I'll give it a try
@davidp4456
@davidp4456 Жыл бұрын
I remember when the Multi Media PC concept came along and I never understood it as all I saw was a PC with CD rom drive. I was right. It meant nothing, just marketing hype.
@communalnoodle1356
@communalnoodle1356 Жыл бұрын
I have a MT 6144 Model 30 that's a Pentium 75, I wonder if they were all sold at the same time?
@werfu
@werfu Жыл бұрын
They were. Those Pentium were introduced in 94 and were top of the line. They were part of the same family line of you look them up, obviously had a different motherboard and PCI support instead.
@IkarusKommt
@IkarusKommt Жыл бұрын
Should've tried with a postcard.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
You're right, I should have thought of that
@thedungeondelver
@thedungeondelver Жыл бұрын
As a guy who was an Amiga user at this time, I gotta say, we all had a good laugh at the "MPC standard" - Multimedia was practically invented on the Amiga. Of course by late 1991 the writing was on the wall and C= was being plundered by a vampire BoD who just wanted to raid the company for cash. But seriously from 1985-1991, your choices for "multimedia computers" were: A $900-$2000 Amiga A $10000 Macintosh-II A $25000-$30000 SGI PCs of course brought brute force and a massive userbase and that was all she wrote...
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
yeah, as a kid I grew up with a Commodore back in the 80s. I feel pretty bad about Commodore's somewhat unexpected failure. I would have loved to see a healthy competition between IBM, Apple, and Commodore.
@thedungeondelver
@thedungeondelver Жыл бұрын
@@Epictronics1 Right? Ultimately I think the Amiga OS wasn't going to survive at any rate, but what they had planned for the actual OS4 from Commodore might have. It was very apple-like. Planned to run on HP-PA RISC, the apple-like part being that they'd sandbox 3.x apps, the next gen OS would have full memory protection, etc., as the then-new WinNT did. Lots of failure in C=, lots of frustrating failure....
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
@@thedungeondelver Too bad really. I guess we'll just have to enjoy the machines they made back then
@IkarusKommt
@IkarusKommt Жыл бұрын
Amigas' death was on the wall as soon as they failed to achieve VGA resolution by 1990. No one wanted to work with CGA-like blocky fonts and crazy aspect ratios while 1024x768i PC monitors were all around.
@thedungeondelver
@thedungeondelver Жыл бұрын
@@IkarusKommt I promise you 1024x768 was not a thing in 1990. 640x480 (not that far off the Amiga's 640x400) was standard back then.
@kittyztigerz
@kittyztigerz Жыл бұрын
have you try it without grapic install alot time i find them dont work with graphic card some reason maybe onboard graphic
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Yes, onboard graphics didn't work either
@kittyztigerz
@kittyztigerz Жыл бұрын
@@Epictronics1 that weirdos get me suspicious about bios doesnt support it
@TheChimeraMan
@TheChimeraMan Жыл бұрын
I have the C1 motherboard. It come with 512k of video ram and a Cyrix 486 66. I upgrade the vram to 1 mb and 16 megs EDO ram. According the bios vga and 1st ide channel are in vesa local bus. Mine also is not working with ET4000. Im looking how to populate the cache ram , bios update and 😢 fix the front cover hinges. It runs win95 rather well.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Yeah, I'm tempted to go with w95 too instead of the original wfw.
@TheChimeraMan
@TheChimeraMan Жыл бұрын
The only strange thing is that CPU is reported as Intel dx2 100😮
@TheChimeraMan
@TheChimeraMan 10 ай бұрын
Any solution for the missing cache ram ?
@soviet_gamer3075
@soviet_gamer3075 Ай бұрын
hello bios version?
@agntdrake
@agntdrake Жыл бұрын
IBM: Let's ditch MCA for VL-Bus. Rest of industry: VL-Bus sucks, let's use PCI instead.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
There was actually a PCI raiser board for these machines back in the day. It's probably close to impossible to find these days. I'd love to find one to compare with the VLB riser. www.computerstudio.us/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/IMG_3665-e1531005461110.jpg
@agntdrake
@agntdrake Жыл бұрын
@@Epictronics1 That's really cool! What kind of connector is on that board? I remember about this time (late 94ish, early 95) that PCI motherboards were becoming reasonably easy to come by, and the local PC shops were mostly trying to pawn off their remaining VL-Bus inventory. I really like the look of the Aptiva and PS/1 machines, but they were so unaffordable compared to everything else. My last (and only) IBM was a PS/2 model 30 286.
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
@@agntdrake That was a nice machine, I had a Model 50 286 back then. I'm not aware of if there was a name or standard for these raiser connectors. but it's a combination of a regular VLB slot and a slightly longer ISA connector on the MOBO. Imagine Woodoo SLI with that PCI riser, haha. I hope someone will find a PCI riser and make a clone
@Bewefau
@Bewefau 11 ай бұрын
I know its good to keep stuff out of the land fills and stuff but why fix the power supply? Why not just buy a newer one than you know its not going to break any time soon and your get clean power? Is it proprietary pin out like HP or something and Dell ?
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 11 ай бұрын
I actually have a very similar dead power supply on the bench today. I'm considering gutting it and installing a modern PSU inside the original case.
@Bewefau
@Bewefau 11 ай бұрын
@@Epictronics1 I'm not very good at fixing things so it would be really nice to know which power supply I could buy from the store and get my older PC up and running again. I have an HP i can't seem to find the right power supply for and I'm no good at fixing things like that. The Pin out is propitiatory. I also was able to find an IBM clone that floppy drive broke it (sad panda) but I'd to know how to fix a power supply and get a new one.
@2dfx
@2dfx Жыл бұрын
Your BIOS for those Aptivas is way out of date. Based on some googling, the last BIOS released for those systems was dated in the year 2000...
@Epictronics1
@Epictronics1 Жыл бұрын
Interesting, that might be worth a try. I'll flash the BIOS, thanks
@alexbold4611
@alexbold4611 Жыл бұрын
Nvidia need some lessons from old power connectors design…..
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