Could you provide some sources that shows that all of them where? And that they where given the choice to recant?

​@@trepinne6840not all of them died, but most of them died crucified and most of them died in diffrent crosses that's why there are many crosses

@@coolguy-nt3fc thats why there are many crosses?

​@@trepinne6840yeah source a: the Bible. A lot of Jesus's followers were persecuted tortured and murdered in horrible brutal ways. I mean the only disciple besides John who didn't die at someone else's hand was Judas and its because he betrayed Jesus and sold him out to be crucified which led him to hang himself because of his guilt.

@@mixedmonkey420 are you here talking about the 12?

But he’s gotta defend the claim that ppl won’t for something they think is a lie

I mean, he does have a problem that the martyrdom accounts of the Disciples are... Not well attested to? Like, most of them are from apocryphal books that Christians believe are not true, so selecting only to believe singular snippets of those books feels like cherry picking. So, like, he's basing his reason to believe they saw something on books he doesn't believe reflect true events. That's kinda suspect to me.

@@thaddeusgenhelm8979wait what ?

@@thaddeusgenhelm8979what books are you referring to?

@@fuego2263 I mean, if you go to your Bible, or your history books, you'll find most of the disciples kind of vanish from recorded history shortly after the Crucifixion. Most of the stories that attest to their martyrdoms are books that did not make it into the Bible because it was, effectively, decided the claims in them were not true (which makes sense, a lot of the claims in them are pretty wild, they read almost more like Bible fanfiction than anything. Like Jesus having a *twin* brother, or that there was a giant talking cross, or of an army being destroyed by a man crossing himself, all sorts of nutty things). If you want a quick list of them you can go to Wikipedia's page on New Testament apocrypha. So, to me, it's weird that people accept the stories of the Disciples martyrdoms as being true from these texts when they don't accept any other part of these texts as being true.

I mean The Father washes away our sins just like that guy washed that rug :) God Bless

😭

@@GalaxyCatPlaysgood analogy. I think it might also be so that the algorithm sees it and promotes it more

Um, do all your work as you would do it unto the Lord? So if you clean rugs, do the best you can?

It is the will God that these rugs be cleanse of sin and be reborn clear of corruption, dirt and stains

Well i would hope so😂😂

It's not about catholicism or protestantism. It's about Christ, that's the word. They died because it was TRUE to them that Christ was RISEN from the Death. Keep on reading the word, praying to God almighty with all your heart and he will reveal himself to you. May you have a blessed rest of the year.

Don’t pray to saints, pray only to Christ

@@boukm3n you do not understand catholic theology.

@@Kidwaizer Christ founded a church with Peter as the rock and foundation and said the gates of hell would not prevail against it. That immediately excludes any protestant church that has appeared within the last 500 years.

They realized and believed in the Christ of their own being through the teaching of the Christ of Jesus.... He that Realizes He is the Son of God has Eternal Life! He then walks through the mortal appearance a Divine Being, in who the 5 Senses of Mortality have been Impersonalized, therefore hold no power over him. His fidelity is to the Immortal Spirit he is, and no longer to the mortal sense of life not of God. -Christ Realization The RESURRECTION takes place when we drop the belief and reliance upon the False Appearances of the World Mind of Mortality through the Acceptance and Realization of God/Spirit being the only Infinite, Perfect, Omnipresent Being, thereby knowing your true self to be the Infinite, Perfect, Omnipresent Spirit of God. We Must OVERCOME the Belief that we are not Immortal, Divine Being..... To him that overcometh(mortal belief of the tree of good and evil)will I give to eat of the Tree of Life, which is in the Midst of the paradise of God(right here, right now).... Turn ye from the false images of the mortal world of man with breath in his nostrils, and Dwell in the Secret Place of the Most High!! Peace Be Unto You

According to psychology I havent found a single scientific paper about dying for a lie, and according to history many spies got tortured and killed while lying to their enemy and saying false information

We don't... Have their word for it? There is not a single document, I'm aware of, of the last testament of a disciple saying that they are going to the grave in the name of what they believe. We don't even have accounts of most of their deaths. In fact, most of the recorded deaths of the Apostles come from apocryphal works that were not accepted as true parts of the Bible. So, not only do spies and other people willingly die for lies all the time, but also you don't actually have the evidence you claim you have, so it doesn't seem like you have any foundation for the belief you're claiming.

the argument falls apart slightly when we take into account that the four gospels of the new testament were written between 20 and 100 years after jesus of nazareth was killed, by mostly anonymous authors. so, if you believe those authors, most of which never saw or spoke to jesus, then it’s infallible. but if you believe, as most people do, that word of mouth is an imperfect medium for transmitting information (see: any game of chinese whispers), the evidence doesn’t stand so strongly anymore.

Amen

God Bless you and your family :)

Me too. I want to be better and I know I should, but every time I feel something or decide to try, I get choked out by the thorns I am among

Exactly 😭 & they gained nothing from lying. No fame (they were hated by both Jews & Romans), no money, no success, nothing!! I’m so confused. Why didn’t the Romans just bring Christ body to the center of the city to prove to everybody their lie instead of going on a killing spree 🤷🏽‍♀️

Yeah, Peter and Paul were recorded to be able to perform miracles, so that's also one of the reasons they were willing to die for Christ. They are Jews who grew up knowing that performing miracles can only be attributed to prophets and Gods, so being able to perform those miracles and healings in the name of Jesus made them a hundred percent certain that who and what they are believing is true.

Cult leaders regularly commit magic tricks that trick their followers enough to make them kill others and themselves. No difference in your argument.

source?

@@7urak Source for what lol, the 8 million instances of martyrs in history with opposing viewpoints? I'm not sure this needs a 'source'

You misinterpreted what he said, he said that to say that it can't be a plot

@@laminatedweasel There’s a difference between dying for a religion, and dying because you claimed to have seen something miraculously impossible. Rising from the death is not possible, and yet Jesus did it, and people saw him do it. And his apostles who saw him do it were all tortured and murdered, except John, who was exiled far away, for claiming to have seen it. Nothing alike this exists in any other religion.

There’s a difference between dying for a religion, and dying because you claimed to have seen something miraculously impossible. Rising from the death is not possible, and yet Jesus did it, and people saw him do it. And his apostles who saw him do it were all tortured and murdered for claiming to have seen it, except John, who was exiled far away. Nothing alike this exists in any other religion.

People will watch the rug cleaning and hear his preaching in the background so theres gonna be more views

That’s because our attention span’s are too short to even focus on the word of God. Instant gratification has corrupted our minds.

​@@Jahiem.The videos beneath videos are so frustrating

@@RobotDude375it’s trickery which shouldn’t be in the same space as God..if the message is for you you’ll hear it..shouldn’t be about getting the most views and should be about getting the message to those that it’s meant for..I’m not arguing or fighting just saying my bit

my attention snap needs the rug

Who called you a pagan when you are a child of God?

Joseph Smith died for infiltrating the government, attacking and killing non-believers, and using his political influence to legitimize his numerous sex scandals. Big difference.

Tons of people die for a belief. These people were TORTURED for what they’ve claimed to see with their OWN EYES. Huge & important differencez

@@ashleybaity1239that doesn’t really mean anything? muslims that died for their faith were also tortured and killed.

@@micheallucas5328 I don’t think you understand. Plenty people die for a BELIEF. But nobody dies for a lie. Something they claim to have saw. The question wasn’t “Do you believe in Jesus or die?” It was “you said you SEEN Christ risen, is that true? Yes or no?”

@@micheallucas5328 & what Muslims were tortured & killed for their faith ??

@@ashleybaity1239 7th century pre-islamic arabia. muslims were persecuted and tortured all the time by the polytheistic meccans that lived there at the same time. stories of whole family’s being tortured for weeks or months on end and dying for their faith aren’t uncommon at all. this information is one google search away, i promise you christian’s aren’t the only victims of oppression from the birth of their religion. heck even in the quran mohammed speaks about how he was beaten often for saying what he believed in.

Not his point

​@@williambailey309how so? Isn't his argument that the only way those people sacrificed themselves was because they saw Jesus Christ come back? I am confident that those who suicide bomb do so off of faith and indoctrination which is very possible in the situation of Jesus.

Yes, but the apostles lived and talk and was around Jesus, they saw him die and all claimed that he had risen from the grave, they were eyewitnesses to Jesus not just martyrs of their faith

💀💀💀💀

​@@jakethecreeper7840maybe if there was any credible source.... or maybe if someone wrote about it at the time and not hundreds of years later.....

And what are the possibilities of the second one happening while having everyone’s hallucinations match perfectly, not to mention in multiple different locations?

I feel like the argument that something is physically impossible is kinda a moot point when debating religion. Like whether you believe in God or not, if he is real he would be able to make someone rise from the dead or be unparalyzed. So whether you believe or not, the argument that it is impossible doesn’t really work because obviously if God was real then it would be possible

Physically*

absolutely spot on, people here are talking about "physically possible" when the main tenet of our faith is that there exists a being which is above all reality.@@allstartag1176

​@@lnAFlashthe convince themselves that their stories match up.

different context. ok so you claimed you saw michael jackson lives in your house(you made it up) and people are going to kill you if you dont tell the truth, are you gonna keep lying if you know you made it up? ok maybe one idiotic suicidal person would do it (not you tho) but hundreds of professed eyewitness do it too? i bet 99.9999% would not be willing to die if they made it up.

For a belief sure.. not for what they saw. It’s either you seen it, or you didn’t. & then they were torched for this.

They would’ve confessed to the lie before they were killed to try to get out of the death penalty. If someone was lying, they wouldnt just accept death. They would try to squirm out of it by exposing themselves.

Just out of curiosity, have you seen any convincing points from any religion to support a belief in god?

​@@DukeD5would they? The argument of the guy you replied to is that if they don't confess, they die without you knowing whether it was a lie or not. And then you assume it wasn't because they were willing to die.

The point he was making is that they died to protect the gospel of christ which they they have seen themselves. Jesus death and resurrection God Bless :)

​@@lucam8758exactly. Lies give power.

and get a good chance to explore the cave for tricks, and probably a dna test to confirm it really is him and not a lookalike. also i would have needed an autopsy after death but before resurrection to fully confirm his original death. would also need a good way to rule out identical twins. but i guess 'some guys write it down in a book thousands of years ago' is all the proof-finding some people need.

You have to seek Him & you will see Him.

Its called conviction, this may be foreign to one if one has never experienced it

@@dwdelve I think you need to understand basic sentences

Wrong about what?

Well, if he is lying, please explain the truth.

@@racconkiler1645 he has autism go easy on him

Counter-argument: Russian-Ukrainian war. And also every other war. I guess you don't know how war works.

​@@terryhintz3189America. Oil. Enough said

"fight for that lie they're told" and what lie is that? literally nobody is going to war for their GOVERNMENT

For the lie or for the belief?

@@terryhintz3189 the argument isn't if everyone would do it. Just one has to be willing to die for a lie and we've all seen it happen.

Palestine still doesn't exist, its called Gaza

Romans called the place Palestine, so it is indeed Palestine

​@@osScoutat the Time of their lives it was the kingdom of Israel

​@@osScoutRomans called Israel Palestine because jews and Palestinians had conflict. It was an insult to the Isreal from Romans

@@juliaberbeka2981 What do you mean the Jews and Palestinians had conflict? The word Palestine from an old word "Phillistine" and the Philistines were also Jewish.

It isn’t ignorance if they physically saw it though.

@@nyameleyefekaska2895 If they """CLAIM""" they saw it!!! And if they think they are correct, it is still ignorant to make a mistake or be wrong. It is just not willfully ignorant or a lie. However, you have to question someone's mental facilities if they say they see the dead walking about or spend their time talking to supernatural beings... Go on, tell me you speak to a possessed Jewish zombie who proclaimed the end of all life on Earth within a few years of his death. ...I say you are indoctrinated or smoking crack! Madness!!!

​@@nyameleyefekaska2895Almost every single religion has people saying they saw it

@@Granad784 But not many are eyewitnesses who then documented what they saw when they saw it. And then proceeded to die excruciating deaths. Also, which religions are saying what they’re saying?

@@nyameleyefekaska2895 No you are just wrong multiple people did it and did not die because we don't do that anymore in most places. And what is that question supposed to be? The religion that is it, people say they saw some mythical creature all the time.

Please name the source; I am very interested in that topic actually. Also - I would argue that your example sounds very probable. BUT, the disciples of Christ all swore by their testimonies when they were tortured and brutally killed. Why didn’t at least one disciple revoke their testimony? The ones who were persecuted stood by what they saw, and even when separated by hundreds of miles (because they scattered), they swore true to what they saw?

@@RealTruthCore I’m not sure what source you’re asking for. The Jim Jones thing is kinda common knowledge. According to what sources did the disciples not revoke their testimony and according to what source did those who separated say it was true?

yeah 12 people suffered the same psychosis

@@Andres.Duran.J I mean 39 people suffered from the same psychosis when they killed themselves as part of the Heaven’s Gate cult.

Well in the case of the people he’s talking about we have historical records of them and how they died. (Those records not being the Bible)

@@bachmanweaver55 The point I was making is that it's possible for someone to die to maintain a lie that they believe is more important than their own life

…The example of that is from a fictional story

@@bachmanweaver55 And you think it's never happened in real life?

“Damn those zombies in the walking dead are scary. I bet that was scary in real life.”

Yes may be, but the septique scholar like Bart Erhman agree on the Martyr of the apostle.

it's not a good point. apples, oranges