I had a job where I commuted by bike, and it was 45 min ride each way. All I know was, I was hella fit that summer. Just anecdotal, of course.

Its really scary. Yesterday i thought: Is it a good idea to ride twice a day? Dylan should make a video about this. Boom, next day its there

Dylan’s brain: “what’s the science of riding twice in one day? 🤔” My brain: “What’s the science of wearing the same bibs twice in one day? 😬”

At the end of the winter i often do two rides a day to increase volume. For example 2h outside + 1,5h on Zwift. For me it has several benefits: - I can eat and hydrate in between the 2 rides, which i feel is better for the quality of the training as a whole. - I dont have to train in the cold for too long, and dont have to train on Zwift for too long (where dehydration is always a danger). - When training alone it's mentally a lot easier to break the training in two then going out for 3h or 4h time after time. I just get more hours on the bike this way, which always is win.

Road bike with the roadies out of the cafe early in the mourning, then Shred the trails with the buddies in the mtb in the afternoon to have a 🍺 afterwards... That's my two workout per 😂

The indiscipline I've gained from backward hat D has hindered my training hugely . I've overtrained massively and am on a crippling downward performance spiral. Thanks.

When I was younger and doing training camps, we often split the days into 2. In between, we'd have a chance for a meal and a nap and maybe some bike maintenance. Because we were there for a week, it split the days up really nicely, didn't give us too much downtime, and felt better and more fun overall. Of course, one of the big reasons to do 2 rides in a day is so you can do 2 different kinds of riding in a day. Going for a road ride in the morning and then a MTB ride in the afternoon is a lot more fun than slogging through 5 solid hours on the road.

Hey Dylan, thanks for the bringing the research to an easily understandable, practical video. I think you should consider if you haven't already, reaching out to some of the major institutions doing research in these areas to collaborate with them. You're positioned well as a high level athlete and coach to help develop research design and topics particularly where you have identified shortcomings. Hard to do I'm certain unless you are bringing along the funding to make those things happen but maybe you could tie in some sponsors you are already engaged with that may have some common interests. Just a thought...

Great video as always, Dylan. Thank you.

Always good info. Appreciate all of the research and unbiased information

And another perfect timing as I am just figuring out how I should plan my weeks for the upcoming season. Thanks a lot!! :D

Thanks for answering this Dylan, love the questioning of conventional wisdom with hard science!

Still the best cycling channel on KZfaq! Thank you Dylan for all your efforts in bringing these videos to us!

Great vid. You’re right that published research is so limited or has such small sample sizes. Keep pushing the strength gospel 💪 the message is getting through!

Glad your back. Gym work and acquiring the equip so i don't have to scratch/claw for time at the gym has been on the mind lately. Naturally i start thinking about these videos. -U10

I’m reviewing your 10 mos. old vlog, how to make 2021 your best year…time to get 2020 & 2021 behind me and start over. Thanks for the info and inspiration 👍🏽

Thanks for looking into this one Dylan! For me, the point about incremental volume increase is the biggest factor for me. I can add another 5 hours of volume a week by incorporating lunch rides on a two-a-day schedule. Sounds like it's worth doing!

Hey Dylan thanks for the content! With your channel, I've made huge strides in my training in the past 3 years, and avoided some common pitfalls and gimmicks. Cheers!

So i agree with the twice a day, longer and a shorter... I started doing this again recently... Ok, im 65, on strava too so i cant hide my results. I rode 75 miles sat at about 17.5 mph and today 32 miles today at 19.7 mph. I feel great. Its getting cold here in NV, so changing is a pain in the rear, and the cold sucks.... I will do two rides tomorrow. A 1800 ft climb and 50 mile trip. Then a small 20 miler later... Love the information... BTW, i suck down electrolyte pack every hour and in the long ride i eat figs too... and two large waters in 75 mile trip on a cool day.

Dyll!!!,,,,,,this is your BEST video for MILLIONS of cyclists all over the WORLD!!!!!,,,,,,,,thanks a lot for your time and resources!!!.(64y vet RSA)

When I do one of my last Ironman rises before the race, was 4hrs in the morning zone 2 earlymorning, then come back in the afternoon for a 1hr of power to simulate that fatigue in the race. But mostly high intensity morning, recovery afternoons. Good channel 👍.

Omg we need to do this study !!!

Great info thanks!

Thanks Dylan!

Hahahahahaha.....I just saw the T shirts!!! What would backward hat dylan do???? YES!!!!! MY MAN!!! Will be buying some bro gear.

Hey Dylan, always enjoy your videos. I'm a runner who cycles for cross-training. One of the most discussed training topics in the running space right now is double workout days, modeled most famously by the Ingebrigtsen brothers. So, not only a two run day, but a two workout day, followed by a super easy recovery day (or two). This is not just splitting a predetermined volume into two workouts, but increasing the volume of intense work that would otherwise be done in a day by doing two workouts. The workouts are usually some variation of threshold effort that is strictly controlled by heart rate or even a lactate meter...so kept at a level that is supposed to be manageable. I think a lot of runners experimenting with this type of training are doing the second session on the bike or elliptical to try and manage the muscle damage. I'd be interested in hearing your take on this. Also, can't tell you how much I enjoyed your series with Stephen Seiler. Great channel!

Dylan, another quality video as usual. There seems to be something of a misinterpretation of the traditional intended purpose of twice per day training sessions - which was normalised in Lydiard's work with Olympic champion runners; the pre-breakfast session usually had the dual purposes of acting as a quasi-recovery run and supplementary aerobic conditioning. So this is a relatively easy workout (in running terms 40min to 1 hour at a lower intensity) and would typically be done around 3 times per week. Any benefits associated with fasted training was a minor complement - and not the prime purpose of the session. Similarly, the intent was not to pre-exhaust the muscular system ahead of the evening interval session, nor does it have that effect if the intensity is kept low-moderate. So, it may be worth questioning the argument for morning intervals / weights sessions. I'd argue that programming may actually be counter productive. The primary and complementary purposes of those twice-daily sessions may be confused by current fashionable topics such as fasted training. Back in the day, training twice or three times per day (easy run, stretch & strength, intervals) was common and sustainable when done at the appropriate intensity, and is still common among middle-distance track athletes - probably more so than among pure endurance athletes, which may be an important point of distinction. Idea for another video; have athletes improved across generations? - what does the science say. Isolate for variables such as technology, equipment, and I'd be surprised if you see more than 1% improvement over time.

Thanks Dylan, really helpful video! Recently I am on the base building stage after a pretty long holiday. Doing 2 hard weight lifting + 2-3 easy weight lifting which focu on upper body+2 HITT cycling + many endurance cycling zone2. Hope I can build a good fundation and reach my cycling goal in 2022. hahahahaha

I’ve played around a lot with the timing and order of strength and my hard rides and actually found it most effective and least compromising if I do my strength session and then immediately (w in 30-60 min) get into my hard ride. It almost acts as a priming for my muscles and then gives me more time to recover after. And this still holds true in the off season when I’m lifting pretty hard. Key thing is to make sure I stay well field with some protein and carbs all through the ride.

In other words double up on that Flow Formula subscription baby!

Very interesting topic that I believe could justify one or more follow ups. Three additional angles come to mind. Firstly, I was surprised the video did not cover the pretty common case of competitive cyclists who use their morning and late afternoon commutes as key elements in their training. A few people are mentioning this in the comments. Secondly, the experience of high level triathletes who have been doing two a day workouts as a staple for years. Thirdly, it seems to be a common occurrence to do two a day rides during training camps. There might even be some research literature from eastern block countries from work they did in this area back in the 70s and 80s.

Pre pandemic I was regularly riding twice a day commuting to and from work. My commute is about 33km each way. One year this was my only training for a 210km ride called Around the Bay. First year I did it I hadn’t ridden enough commuting or did enough long rides to get ready for it, second time was only commuting (had already done 5000km for the year) prior to doing the same ride and was able to complete it without being destroyed like I was the first time. From my experience riding twice a day has a lot of benefits for both fitness and endurance.

From 8:10 anyone else screaming HELL YEAH scientific vindication for the café stop!

@Dylan Johnson One issue to consider regarding timing and scheduling is injury risk, especially as an older athlete. For this reason, and following Joe Friel's thinking on this issue, I perform my weights routine after the aerobic or endurance workout, particularly in maximum strength phase. Sure, it may compromise how hard I can push in the weights session, but it acts as a natural limiter protecting key joints like knees.

As a student I committed to work and university, 2 short but fast rides. Slow was boring and as I got fitter I pushed harder and harder over the 10 to 15 miles. Some hills I treated like a hill sprint, and after a while I found you were fit on both the morning and evening commute. Lining up for my first mountain bike race I naturally started near the back, not being too confident of my abilities. As we progressed up the first hill I surprised myself and mates in slowing catching most of the field. My endurance was not there for the last 30 min of the race but I still did surprisingly well. Later as an amateur enthusiast snd racer, I commuted to work then did a structured workout after work. Although there might not be studies to support it,I think there was be some benefits to us in doing the odd 2 rides per day esp if time does not allow us a longer one.

Good video thanks

I have a couple of questions for future videos, mostly related to strength training. 1. How do resistance bands compare to weights? And what would be a good way to use resistance bands as a cyclist vs as a body builder? I recently had a small crash while out for a morning ride before work and broke my hip. During part of the physical therapy program Blood Flow Restriction (BFR) was used with body weight exercises. 2. What would be the role of BFR training as a cyclist? There are different body types which will respond to training in different ways. One day I was watching some bike race video and noticing the buff arms on some racer, probably in a skin suit, and thought - that's me! 3. Being someone who is more of an endurance body type than an Arnold Schwarzenegger body type and who likes to ride and does resistance/weight training to improve my bike riding how much do I really need to worry about bulking up? In the past I have followed the power lifter model of heavier weights and fewer reps but does this even really matter for me, or for anyone who is not the Chris Froome on a team, or even for him?

My former coach who is coach to a Tour De France winning team would periodically have me do two rides per day. This was days when two different tasks had to be achieved (easy AM recovery ride later an intense PM ride), it definitely fired up my fat burning rate, but the works outs had to be 6 hour a part. Otherwise the rides had to be 12 hrs a part. I did hear riders in the past like Jalebert and a Belgian rider of the same era (1990-2000's) saying they sometimes did 3-5 work outs in one day!!!

I usually commute 1 hour each way 4 days a week and ride at the weekend. During the 2020 lockdown I replaced this with a single 1.5-2hr ride. I got fitter. My 20 minute power was about 10 watts up on 2019. I felt like the longer ride meant I spent less time warming up and I was more recovered for harder sessions.

Whoever designs these studies need to consult the current athletes about training science…I completely agree with the problems pointed out with the current studies.

Spent my whole summer training for an Ironman generally riding before work for 2hrs, and 2hrs after work, with sometimes a short run or swim at lunch. It was an efficient way for me to log hours at low/ medium intensity

❤️❤️❤️ just started cycling on September this year hoping I can improve 🥰

One of my friend is regularly racing the SAS - ULTRA 200km Zwift race. That's perhaps "just" 4 and a half hours for many riders, but if you do it "correctly" like BHD, then you blow yourself in the first couple of minutes and ride the rest of the race in zone 1, then there you go, you have a 5+ hour race on Zwift. :D

Have been incorporating gym workouts on off ride days, will try some on ride days also. Have definitely noticed better power from the weight tracker especially on hills.

Dang. Just when it gets cold and I am lucky to get out at all!

When I was younger and still able to do builds to 20-25hr a week 😱.. I went to two rides a day as the only way to keep the same schedule and intensities in a day while increasing volume. For example Tuesday was my day where I concentrated on the thing I was trying to improve in that macro cycle.. so for example I could do my hill repeats in the morning 2-3hrs and still go to the local crit (~3hrs with ride to from + race) in the afternoon... this is VERY doable in two rides but doing 6hrs AND maintaining that level of intensity is basically impossible.. it basically makes practical actually hitting the intended intensity and increasing volumes not otherwise possible.. other alternative is just adding low intensity volume... but low intensity volume day you can just increase and increase as required, so that's not a problem practically.. but that's not the case with higher intensity... breaking into two workout actually works.. you can actually do it.. it's not a problem... of course this is only if you're ready for it.. you are at a point in your training where to progress you need it... I didn't use it a training technique that elicited some benefit.. it was the only practical way to increase load, while maintaining a training structure and prescribed intensities that were working for me... BUT, if your load can practically be done in one workout, you might as well just do it in one workout!

When I was younger and a serious XC MTB racer I used to do 2x a day on Tuesdays after a rest day, sprints in the morning only about an hour -hour 30, then high intensity intervals in the arvo. Def possible when I was young and serious and usually the intervals felt easier after the rev up in the morning. Pretty much the only day of the week that I would do 2x a day. Following days were less intense, AT work wed, endurance thurs, rest fri. Saturdays more sprints and intervals or AT, Sunday endurance, pretty std way of doing it I think. Any of the workouts could be done on the MTB or road, but road was better for the quality of the sprints.

Dylan of course I'll watch this video because I know it's gonna be good, but where are the race recaps we all love to watch?🤔

I followed the old cts gran fondo intermediate plan many times on strava. During midweek you would do say 4x9 overunders on tues followed by 4x6 hill reps on thursday......but then on saturday 4x9 overunders plus 2hrs at endurance in the same ride. The saturday ride was always a killer but i always felt great on the bike the week following this. I would say combining training rides is fine in the same ride if the two sessions complement eachother. Ie not two vo2 sessions for example.

I am commuting daily to work, that ends up on x2 Z1 30min ride every single day. I try to use them as a recovery ride (but, split in two), although after that I still have to go through HIT or endurance session. After weeks of this found that: Recovery weeks aren´t ended up as fresh as they should, even reducing the volume accordingly. Also, some of the HIT (specially 3x10min) are difficult to finish, specially the last interval. If others are doing this, some (based on my perception) tips: try to merge the commute back home with an endurance ride (as easy as bringing cycling cloths to work), stay at Z1 even any other commuter overtakes you and, if you are tired when back from home, listen you your body.

What a very timing video. I wonder about this so much since I bike commute to work. Most of the time I'm tired even though I only go between zone 1 and 2 (mostly on zone 1.5ish). When I join local crit, I feel like I can hold on to the group but I feel like I have not enough power to go on a breakaway or chase a breakaway

My big issue is balancing the barbell and the bikes. I find that when I do the gym session, one or two days a week, that I can feel it in my legs for the next day or two. So I generally prioritize the bike work first and try to put a rest day after a gym session.

i ride with 10 - 30 lbs in back pack have a lota uphill and downhill riding.. start stop in traffic and often ride Several times during any given day resting from minuits to hours.. occasionaly taking a few days off. i ride in my Comfort zone most of the time only occasionaly Hitting it.. and riding on empty belly works for me... Eat light an often no sugary treats ( i do drink a lota beer.. home made non filtered) i make each ride a multi benifit event to keep it interesting fun and easy..things such as visiting friends an family I use my bike as my OnlyMeans of travel.. could barelly walk a year ago... started biking (i has a GaryFisher MB.. and freekin love it) i am 58 yrs old , within a few days i was feeling major benifits.. it feels like an ongoing evolution love the info and delivery D

Hi Dylan, thanks for your video's they are very helpful. I was wondering if you could do a item on setting up training zones? In trainingpeaks there are a few options with more or less zones to train in. Thanks in advance Job

As others have pointed out I think that training twice a day in any sport works best if you have different targets for each session. As far as I know when training for a marathon it is proven that if you want to build your aerobic base it is better to do a long run above 2 hours than two shorter runs at around 1 hour. So I would suspect that the same is true in cycling. However if you plan to do some high intensity training and some lower intensity training in one session you could do a lower intensity ride in the morning and a high intensity ride in the afternoon. The main benefit could be that you are more fresh when tackling the high intensity portions of your training plan.

In Fast Talk podcast there was discussion of doing high intensity session first and within 6-8 hours to do lower intensity in their twice-a-day episode. As a result of high intensity, calcineurin was increased tenfold (or something like that), so in theory lower intensity ride after higher intensity ride should do the same as 5-6 hour long ride's last hour. Glycogen depletion might be irrelevant. They did wish more evidence for it, but it's promising finding. I actually do this and for me it has worked quite well. Feeling in exactly like last hour of long ride once muscle has been put under higher stress. Also my muscular endurance has increased way better this way as compared to doing long steady state rides. Caveat being that i'm intermediate cyclist but long history in endurance sports so my legs are not as good as aerobic endurance in general (also it doesn't help that i'm gym rat with big leg muscles), so exhausting my muscle first and then continuing with lighter load may hit muscular endurance better but not affect aerobic endurance as much. But that being my weakness i stick with it. Also i don't plan to do long races, just as Backwards Hat Dylan, i race on Zwift. So i don't need the experience of sitting in saddle for 5+ hours. I do ride long rides from time to time, but more for fun.

As someone that commuted 35min twice a day (plus one big Saturday ride) for the last 4 years this rings true. I now only ride 3 longer (2-4hr) rides per week but my volume is approximately the same. While I’m still getting back to my pre-covid levels of fitness I can already tell that my training is equal if not better. The other days I’ve been getting some gym work in but that’s what BHD recommends.

Thank u!

Cycling to and from work, has me feeling sore afterwards a lot harder than if I would do the same distance in one go.

sick thumbnail 👍

The only reason I do that is because it helps me to accumulate more volume. Also I personally don't observe negative impact on performance during second workout if the first one was around 0.65 IF and max 2 hours.

Great video Dylan! Why is your saddle so far forward on the rails?

Since millions of people commute by bicycle every day, twice a day cycling isn’t exactly rare. And using a bicycle commute for fitness likely isn’t uncommon either, hundreds of millions likely commute by bicycle, and likely many millions of those do it at least in part for exercise. GCN even did a multi-part video series on how to get the most training benefit out of your commute. Two times a day cycling being so common makes it all the more surprising there isn’t more research on it!

Dylan, just one thing, in Europe double sessions has been used rightly or wrongly for decades at the highest level in cycling, there does seem to be a slight misconception that old pros only rode one speed long tempo rides and didn't vary their training, they may not of had the scientific feedback of today, say from the sixties as an example, but many things we understand now from a medical POV were proven through trial and error in training regime's from earlier period's..

Have you thought about organizing your followers into your own 2 vs 1 study?

Aerobic exercise twice a day raises metabolism twice a day. Metabolism remains elevated after training for a couple of hours and so repeating this in a day is beneficial for weight loss / control.

I. Proud of myself, I’m 57 yrs old, weight about 117kg, ride regularly (not competitive) …. Also bikepack regularly … None of that is why I’m proud …. I’m proud mostly because I understood some of that stuff Who’d have thought it Tbh, for people like me, I won’t ever compete, I need to use the time I have in the real world to best effect and I’m trying to find any input that makes “blocking out a short meeting slot while home working and doing a short session” “or maybe another later” mean something so I can judge on it’s worth.

I commute with my road bike. In the morning I do it fastet and it just 11 km on a decent pace. In the afternoon, depending on the day (training day or not) I do my training on the way home. Maybe an intervall session or 50+ km zone 2 rides.

Dylan please link a Video if u covered the issue of metatarsal burn and how to get off from it. Thanks bud 👍🏼🌹

i do this in the summer twice a week, and find it very good, first ride 1 hour spin and later in the day I do an hour group ride and 45min to and from, i feel the spin in the morning gets all the crap out before the group ride.

Volume and consistency are probably the two biggest factors to increase performance. it would be much easier to add a 2nd ride on a given day than to lengthen the 1st for most people.

In Cyclist's Training Bible Joe Friel recommend Twice a day style (with nap after lunch)

i thought the 2 a day idea was based on the signalling response. eg high intensity signal, then rest, then low intensity signal rather than a mix of the two.

Dylan.....do a video on ice baths. Do they really help with recovery?

Hi Dylan: as far as getting a two-ride benefit (however small) from one long ride with a break somewhere in the middle, how long would that break need to be (without food)?

BHD, I need some more Hypergain Beastmode Raw Edition. Do have any in salted tears flavour? (You must have vanquished enough roadies by now!)

My opinion is that semi fasted rides don't create a higher performance as to max results. But it does offer a performance drop protection since it will delay the speed in wich I would bonk if I don't eat perfect on a longer ride. Wich will keep me on the bike longer in though situations.

Dude, that Hyper Gain Beast Mode Raw Edition.... LMAO!!!

I like this video and helps explain a lot but I’m still unsure about the outcome because I’ve seen riders enter two different cycle cross events with some being back to back and others having a few hours between and they still end up winning the race compared to riders that I’ve only done one race

I lift in the morning and ride in the evening. Seems to be working fine for this old man. 😊

I don't train, but I do bike commute. 9 mi to to work. 10 hour shift. Bike home. I don't eat or drink during this period. This is purely to optimize fat metabolism. What else could I be burning at the end of the work day going home. Not muscle.

I saw you do low bar squats? Wouldn't high bar squats be more beneficial as per more quad dominant movement? I guess hip would be less importante for cycling

so I guess the bigger question is whats the optimal amount of time to train per week? then figure out if we need to split that into 2 per day to hit that goal

I would computer 27km in the morning to work. Thenk 27km back home. On the way home I would always get smoked by guys well over 60 in their cycling gear and I couldn't use the excuse of having to cycle in the morning be the reason why I'm getting smoked. So I would push just to keep up and it worked. When Mondays came back after have 2 days of rest I felt how much faster I've gotten and wasn't feeling like I was suffocating trying to breath

Trying to train for an ironman around harvest so i been doing 2-3hrs in morning then an hr or so intervals at night in leu of Saturday long ride. Hopefully it works!

I was about to DM you about this🤣🤣. Is this coincidence

Hey Dylan, haha how about four? I commute to a ferry ride across and ride to work for a total of 28 miles round trip. What would be the best way to structure training? I have alternated between intervals on my first and last rides once or twice a week. Any suggestions?

This does mean commuters who ride a lot can get the benefits of a single long ride even if they are splitting it into 2 though. I commute at least an hour each way per day so was wondering if this was as good as a 2 hr ride.

Hate to admit it - I used to commute and hr one-way to/from work (zone 2) and then doing TRoad plan. Very small gains. Last yr, I moved closer and now only commute 30mins total and do same TR plan. MUCH BIGGER JUMP in performance over 6month training block. So, for me. ONE PER DAY

Thanks for looking into this, Dylan. I have a doubt regarding general training: every one of your videos regarding training structure is based on building towards a racing season. In my case though, I don’t have a racing season and I’m not sure how to go about structuring my training. Should I still train towards an imaginary training season to be placed arbitrarily anywhere in the year, or should my year-long training be just base, or just build, or peak or any other combination. I’m lost here. Please help! 😮‍💨

If you have an endurance ride and gym on the same day, wouldn’t it make sense to have the endurance right after the gym before the muscle sourness set in?

Is it a good idea to do gym session on your week prior to the race?

Yup... Still haven't seen a 5-hour race on Zwift.

Strength training question: Off season: # reps & #sets ?? In season: # reps & #sets ?? Thanks

There is a debate in my group. Which option would work better: rest in the middle of group for about 30 minutes to eat something or rest for 5 minutes to continue the ride? Are there any differences?

With two workouts per day the sustainable average power is higher than doing one. So assuming you ride 1x4hrs @ 150W you could probably ride 2x2hrs @ 160W and still be in endurance zone for the whole time. I would guess the second would yield more performance up to 4 hrs, but longer events like 8hr marathon rides ? ... no clue.

I think we need a study on optimal time between rides if a rider is going to do two-a-days and the experimenters need to measure both bio-chems and riding outcomes. If I am on a long ride and take a break longer than 2-3 minutes, my legs feel like tree trunks and it is very hard to get back into the ride. It seems like once "recovery" gets triggered, my body does not want to work again anytime soon. Anybody else have this effect?

How about strength sessions on the rollers (in combination with lifting)? What I am currently doing is doing 30 minutes of lifting followed directly by an interval session where I am applying intervals around FTP with an average RPM of 65. I don't know whether there's any scientific research to back this but the idea is that it would encourage functionality of the gained strength towards cycling. I consider it as one strength training and the main reason for me personally not to split them up is from a time efficiency pov. Having said that: does it make sense to apply strength intervals on the bike? Is there any research behind this?

What about a video in bathing in epsom salts for muscle reovery?

Isn't the low-glycogen aspect of the second workout similar to cycling in the morning after "fasting" overnight?