it's nice to see this, to see that buckley seems to have mellowed out as time passed, and became more gentle, more accomodating in discussion.

"She claimed that she never read it because it would cause too much pain. Not that she couldn't conquer pain." lmao

I miss William F. Buckley

"a thousand pages of ideological fabulism" That's awesome.

I think that Mr. Buckley would have had a more engaging and enlightened interview with Pauly Shore rather than Charlie Rose. Rose makes Larry King seem positively brilliant.

This was filmed ages ago, at the time it was one of the best selling books of all time with 5 million copies sold. It was selling 500,000 copies a year which at the time was quite a lot.

Beautifully stated, Mr Truth. Cheers. I concur, wholly.

El Rushbo’s imitation of WFB was spot on…..Miss them both.

Any Rand spoke volumes of truth and people usually cannot handle too much of that.

haha that's the best knock on Ayn Rand I've ever heard--that she had a COLLECTIVE of people FOLLOWING HER to discuss how you should be anti-collective. Reminds me of the Steve Martin individualist creed. Repeat after me: I promise to be different! I promise to be unique! I promise not to repeat things other people say!

I enjoyed this clip , both Bill Buckley and Ayn Rand were interesting , thought provoking intellectuals. I can't think of anyone like them in the public spotlight today.

Buckley was - gloriously - what would now be called an old-school conservative. He was distinguished by being fiercely intelligent, well-read, and beyond all, THOUGHTFUL. This enabled him to fathom more than one side of an argument.

Here's a real conservative. He sees through the naivete of belligerent meritocrats to the social darwinism lurking in the background. Bravo Buckley.

Unlike most of the commenters here, I miss WFB.

Tracy I agree with your sentiment that our economic principles should be balanced between the two possible extremes. Life is full of spectra (many spectrum) and to follow the middle path is almost always ideal. Ms Ran should be heralded only for delineating the callous extreme that human economic organization can take, JUST so we can steer clear of it. It is a breath of fresh air too see your comment. The object of development is to regulate the wild swings of a concept's pendulum.

Proving once again that William F. Buckley, Jr. was one of America's greatest intellectuals and Charley Rose one of America's most vapid tools.

"I had to flog myself to read it." Nice.

I read all of her non fiction too but I wouldn't call the first hand accounts of her friends "gossip." How she lived and the choices she made are a good indication about her philosophy in practice. And the fact is that she found ways to rationalise any desire she had.

Atlas Shrugged had an enormous impact on my life. I was living in Cairo Egypt working on my business and it provided English entertainment for me in the evening, so reading it wasn't too much of a chore. The first hundred or so pages was tedious but the story was engrossing past that. For ten years prior to that, I was struggling with the trauma Christian Fundamentalism imparted. John Galt's speech was my first introduction to a philosophical system. It changed my life and helped purge the delusional muck of religion from my mind, and inspired me to become a philosopher. In that, she remains a hero of mine. Eventually I became an "Ayn Rand Scholar" as I pursued the foundational elements of philosophy: metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, politics, aesthetics and logic. I soon parted ways with objectivism once I realized that the monetary system that we have today is a system of institutionalized violence. I realized that money was not a tool of trade but a permission slip of survival corporate elitists controlled and manipulated through the government. A system that has no regard for compassion or empathy for individuals, or takes into consideration the differences in an individual's neurology that determines whether or not one can be "successful". She approached her philosophy with that same tired egalitarianism that in some mystical way all minds are equal and all humans are equally competent to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps". We are not. Some can play they piano or the stock market to virtuosity but most can't no matter how hard they try. She never had the benefit of neuroscience to help shape her philosophy. Her fantasy of laissez fair capitalism is untenable. It would require a global philosophical shift for people to deal rationally with one. That is NOT EVER going to happen.

@eparkison DUDE!! Do you know what the friggin word "coerced" means, it means FORCED!!. The free market system is the very opposite of force, in the free market system nobody is FORCING anybody to work as a doctor, the individual decides ON HIS OWN if he wants to pursue that as a career.

The works of an artist does not necessarily have to match their tragic lives. I am not a Michael Jackson fan, but I do remember a song "Man in the mirror" - a song conserning personal choices and morality. Artists personal lives seldom live up to the standards that they set in their work. Nobody can be rational 100% of the time. We all occasionally give into our whims.

That was a devastating review of the book... it was spot on!

I consider myself too cool to have a philosophy. Also...my extremely low I.Q. allows me to react to all situations "instinctively" devoid of all thought.

The man Rush Limbaugh looked up too to find inspiration (as well as the other conservatives out there.) He is sorely missed.

"The highest tribute to Ayn Rand is that her critics must distort everything she stood for in order to attack her. She advocated reason, not force; the individuals rights to freedom of action, speech,& association; self responsibility, NOT self-indulgence; & a live-and-let-live society in which each individual is treated as an END, not the MEANS of others' ends. How many critics would dare honestly state these ideas & say. "...and that's what I reject?" --Barbara Branden

@eparkison The whole reason corporations are outsourcing in the first place is because they would rather work in countries where the government is more friendly towards business, these "third world" countries are so hard up for business and work that they are willing to allow the corporations to operate freely as long as they will remain to create jobs. If you continue to do things like raise the minimum wage, create bossy unions etc. then the corporations are going to continue to outsource.

Ayn Rand is the complete opposite of George Orwell. Orwell explained in his essay "Why I write": "Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" Of Ayn Rand's work, it was the other way around.

It was, sadly, very important to Buckley to be considered respectable by the Charlie Roses of the world.

"You liked her, I mean, you were friends?" "Well..... " And then he shrugs, and grabs his tie. Oh, WFB you dog you!

Fun fact, Buckley started to look that old only days after his debate with Chomsky

Oh, and thanks for the suggestion. I'm googling it right now :)

Rand's philosophical system is indeed heartless, but then again, the world, basic reality, is heartless.

Buckley was such a fascinating character - great style and a great command of English. "1,000 pages of fabulism" , his use of the word '"nominate" in its older sense

One of the only correct statements that Ayn Rand ever made was to WFB, "You are too intelligent to believe in GOTT"

Thanks very much. I do know a bit more than my post lead you to believe. In fact, I'm writing a graduate-level paper on The Romantic Manifesto. I had just never come across anything like what slybuster was referring to. And I appreciate your warnings. It would have been very clear to me, just from TRM, that Rand is both superficial and potentially dangerous, but it's always good to see others who've got her number and are looking out for their fellow citizens. Peace.

As always, a true gent, Buckley can destroy someone and make you smile about it.

Touted as one of the best modern age classic Atlas Shrugged is one of the most controversial and bold books written by anyone . I completed reading Atlas Shrugged yesterday. It took me 5 years and 4 month to complete this book. You can imagine I am not much a reader but mostly, read for pleasure. The plot is laden with subterfuge on the part of Government which is wanting to nationalise everything, a lady is fighting this system along with an lathario Business man and another astute one who all, eventually seems to congregate with others in a world of "purpose". I love the idea, but I felt the book was more of an idealist, ramble than a realist roadmap for the future. Like most authors, Ayn was able to identify the problem but her solution was a mere figment of imagination of a fancy world, devoid of any subterfuge and chicanery. Thus is perhaps, why the books appeals to a teenage and mid twenties group, than it does to, more mature men. I also found the plot to be really devoid of any real meat. Dagny the protagonist seemed to be a "slut" who doesn't mind sleeping around with married men or otherwise. She dated all the leading men in the book and slept with all of them. What surprised me the most, was how they were so happy and devoid of any envy for the each other despite the fact that all three loved her, which was a little too much to begin with, and further they all go on to live "together" happily ever after. It seemed to me that Ayn Rand was visualizing herself as Dagny and living her fantasises through this character. Being somewhat of a misogynist myself, I simply find this behaviour, very typical of most young girls or even some older woman, who want several intelligent and handsome to love them, from where they can cherry pick one. What blew my lid off was the portrayal of "John Galt" the main protagonist. She goes to a great extend describing his physical features presenting him as greek God, who happens to be a great engineer, and a great orator and a leader, all in one, package. That's the most ludicrous description of a character and clearly a figment of her imagination which perhaps will savour to the taste of the impressionable whippersnapper, who wants to change the world. I would have had no trouble if the book was presented as a fictional piece of work in its entirety. However it was a portrayed almost as contemporary evolution of events around the world. She was cleverly using the word USA but what she actually meant was USSR. Perhaps she should have candid about the society which she was portraying. This was almost list perching to the choir - Americans love capitalism and free market and Laissez-faire, and this books preaches the demonisation of govt. controls and socialism. Never mind the length of the book, or the soliloquy which each character incessantly falls into so darn frequently, that it almost feels like a pattern. I had to pretty much skip several parts, though I never lost track of the plot or key words which would typically be spoken at the end of a chapter, yet the book is long and takes and age to complete. However, the book, ends so abruptly that you almost don't expect it to, was actually picking up the pace, though i honestly didn't mind as exhausted reading so far. A new world is created by perhaps a magic wand which Rand was always carrying in her arsenal. She had to end it and she decided, all right here comes the "new" world and don't ask me how. The book talks about reason all through, but I couldn't find a reason here, where she uses her magical skills more than her reasoning ability to lay foundations of a NEW world. Anyways, on a lighter note I managed to learn several new words which I realised, were her favourite perhaps - "Brusquely" was one of them, "Insolence" was another and "recalcitrant" was another. There were many others of course, but I seem to remember these, quite distinctly. All in all I think, you should read this book not for the love of it but for the fact that you can always use it to stir up intellectual debates and play along in any so called intellectual clubs. Perhaps, its is also a good book for those of you who want to connect with the younger generation, who will definitely have strong association with the concepts mentioned in this book. I am now planning to read "The fountain Head" which was more of prologue to this book. Perhaps, I can approach the second one with a lesser expectation and feel happier about. All in all its a good read if you can manage to complete it.

If you cut through all the opinions, Ayn Rand was about the right and freedom of every person to determine their own destiny.

@Menry9374 The book is called "Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand.

@MaryJo1950 Also Michael O'Donnell wrote an excellent article about Rand. I'll PM you the link. Two things in that are good is his point that it is an individualsim so extreme her followers do not just ignore other people but spit in their faces. HIs closing line is great too - and very true - "...biographers have shown the devastation she brought upon those around her,the lesson is painfully clear: behold the ruins of a completely selfish life."

A COUNTER TO POST MODERNISM, OBJECTIVE EPISTEMOLOGY

great point! like the CFR, TriComm

Buckley has mellowed in his old age.

This video could also be titled "William F. Buckley, Jr. attempts, for three minutes and forty-three seconds, to not call Charlie Rose an idiot."

Since when did " get out of my way ! It's all for me ! Fuck you ! " become a * philosophy* ?

I agree with your first comment: "Anthem" is a dystopian novel on a par with "1984," "Animal Farm," and "Brave New World," and should be read in tandem with them.

She indeed would not have been there, because you never hesitated to try to humiliate her works at every turn, Bill. Your impulsive condescension tends to bring a loathsome stench.

god damn altas shrugged is a brutal book, i wonder when i'm finish if i'll ever care to read novels anymore.

12/16/11: Christopher Hitchens died last night, and after visiting with him in various moments of his televised life, thanks to KZfaq, I realized that I was missing my other most-favored public thinker, WFB, so I came here. They both loathe "Atlas Shrugged," which, given their fealty to individual liberty (Hitch's, post 9/11/01) is inexplicable; and, as I have often observed, their vocal cadences, to say nothing of their protean erudition, are eerily similar. randy95023 I agree with your first comment: "Anthem" is a dystopian novel on a par with "1984," "Animal Farm," and "Brave New World," and should be read in tandem with them. @Bellantoni Meaning, she was for totalitarianism and against "democratic" socialism (an oxymoron if ever there was one)? You've got to read "Atlas" over again, you have misread her completely: The simple construct "the Individual against the Collective," infusing everything she wrote, refutes that silly, ill-informed assertion. althmanne I believe I admire you for your last three sentences.

I actually read her novel for the first time when I was 12 and didn't agree at all, but then I was just a kid; I read it again a few years ago (I'm 46 now) and still didn't agree with all her points. I understand that the middle ground is rarely held or even gained; but I think to move forward we must try harder, otherwise certain events will only be doomed to repeat themselves; from the recent financial collapse to people being raised to think the world owes them a living.

haha her scorn for charity -- the FIRST action of the book is Eddie Willers being charitable!

Wtf, WB thinks that Atlas Shrugged is the biggest selling novel in the history of the world? What criteria am I missing?

Rand ended up on Social Security and Medicare!

Interview was on17th June 2003, its at the start of the video....

Some comments about Ayn Rand; she wasn't against charity, she was against government welfare. Also, if you read her novels with an open mind, you will discover that there are many acts of kindness in them.

"Ideological fabulism" is how the unprincipled describe idealism. He published a dishonest assassination by the unprincipled Whittaker Chambers without having himself read the book at that time. His low point.

I tried to read Atlas Shrugged - got to page 90 - just about died

i would really like to clear something up: the speaker says "her scorn of charity and altruism." this is not a correct estimation. she had no problems with charity as a premise. her problem was with charity, by force, or charity as your highest value. end of story. how this continuously becomes misunderstood, eludes me. to reiterate: its only when someone holds a gun to your head and says "because you have so much, give some to John, its only right and fair... or else ill shoot." that is wrong.

Imagine if Ayn Rand was alive at the time of Karl Marx what a debate would ensue perhaps the course of world history may have changed delegating Karl Marx to the garbage pile of time

@SuperPythagore Of course, now that I think about it, most of these kids in high school have trouble reading "A Cat in a Hat", much less "Atlas Shrugged". Shame, I loved "Atlas Shrugged" at 14, and since I read it at such a young age, it truly influenced my life positively.

Ayn Rand is one of the sanest authors I have ever had the pleasure to read.

@TheSilverSurpher You're right and I am in error about the time sequence of Puzo's novel and the films based on it. My error is especially odd in light of the fact that I have both seen the movies--many times, as well as read the novel. Anyway, thankyou for your correction. As for the influence of Atlas Shrugged,it certainly has influenced the Tea Party(which isn't a small thing by the way),but is has also influenced the libertarian movement and some parts of conservatism.

@TyphoidBryan Thank you ! Excellent observation.

Miss ya Bill!

The term 'swivel-eyed' could have been invented for Rand.

Bravo. A Man who gets Ayn Rand. Ron Paul, a very good thinker who happens to have a son named Rand, sadly does not see her Libertarian leaning.

That is really well put! I must admit I posted that in drunken hast. That is likely the reason there are syntax errors, as well as basic grammar problems.

Full of lies, as is common with all the Rand-haters. Lol, this makes me love Leonard Peikoff's comment from the 1984 debate even more: "As far as William Buckley is concerned, please do not confuse us with that entity."

Buckley was more of an intellectual than you will ever be.

I just looked it up & you're right. Doesn't make any list of best-selling novels.

Rand was an ideological Don Quixote for the most part. Fighting Stalin here in America.

Rose interrupts too much

A great intellect with a great command of the English language ..

Love the way Bill stops Charlie's annoying cackling by mentioning gas chambers. He soon shuts up and listens to the man.

And everyday I voluntarily live inside the USA. The US gov't is not forcing to live here. I choose to be a "patron" of the US.

Buckley was a great intellectual. He was also a freakin' jerk. The two are NOT mutually exclusive.

3:12 "You are too intelligent to believe in God."

Amen!

Reality is not two there can be no primacy. "Awareness is known by awareness alone," is the sole irreducible axiom of reality..

When I was young I read everything by Ayn Rand and was devoted to her ideas. Then I became more mature, got a college education, traveled the world and, having grown up, I set aside those simple, childish ideas, realizing that the world is a much more complex place. Her ideas grow out of her anger at what she lost resulting from the revolutions of 1917 in Russia. If you read her non-fiction her shrill anger and hate are quite evident. For someone who champions something called "Objectivism" she was not very objective. Reason is a tool that can be used to justify all sorts of atrocities. It also depends on the premises that you start out with. If you reason from false premises you will not make any sense as Ayn Rand does fail to make sense, except within the fictional world and false premises contained in her limited thinking. She paints a pretty picture in her novels for the gullible and foolish. See also how in her non-fiction she uses her fictional character's dialogue as "evidence" for her ideas. Such self referencing is not evidence of anything except narcissism.

They spoke about her ideas with such a condescending tone it pisses me off. I don't agree with Rand, but at least discuss her ideas.

WFB was my college graduation commencement speaker (1984). It was a conservative college back then. Now it's a liberal hellhole and I don't send them one cent.

None of the sources I checked listed Atlas Shrugged as the top selling novel of all time. In fact, it doesn't appear in the top 20.

As much as I dislike Buckley's political ideology, and philosophy, at least the man had a likable sense of graciousness and charm. Conservatives in our current era, are like rubes from the hills.

Always amazed by the number (any over zero) of people who champion government dependence, as if standing up and being a man was something to be avoided at all cost.

@CosmicFork "Among professional philosophers..." LMAO at just these words alone!!!

this interview was in the 80s...

Ayn Rand = Rosa Klebb inspiration?

"She liked me up until I published a review of her book by Whitaker Chambers." A review that was factually incorrect on details that would have been incredibly hard to mistake and that basically accused her of being pro-genocide. Would you really expect someone to like you after you publish lies about her that vicious? Really?

Fed policy to encourage the private sector to do something stupid isn't Keynesian economics. Its monetarism.

@OrthodoxDarwinist I believe The DaVinci Code by Dan Brown is the biggest selling novel. I didn't believe old Bill when he said it either. About a year ago, a Quebec billionaire Rand follower, offered McGill University, Canada's most prestigious, 5 million dollars to endow a Philosophy Chair to teach the Philosophy of Ayn Rand. McGill said " No thanks, we do not consider Ayn Rand to be a philosopher."

"a thousand pages of intellectual fabulism" :exploding eyes:

Venezuela is a living example of Atlas Shrugged.

“A thousand pages of ideological fabulism”

William F. Buckley,Jr. was one of the founders and leading promoters of modern day conservatism. He was no liberal. He wasn't minimizing her. He granted that she was a highly influential. He was a conservative christian who did not like her athiestic anti althuism.

He died after living a full and accomplished life. Far more than anyone will ever be able to say about you.

And it’s All coming true ! Way ahead of her time! She’ll be remembered a lot longer than either of these guys ! We’re beyond Atlas Shrugged and now coming up to “1984” 🤮

Buckley making light of how he handed Whittaker the hammer with which he, in turn, bent the nail.

"The only people who have to worry about not eating are those who do not work." -- Liberty, as you defined it: "freedom from external... restraint, compulsion, or interference in engaging in the pursuits or conduct of one's choice..." It sounds to me as if the market dictates how people experience their liberty, rather than there being any intrinsic value in liberty itself. So what you want is NOT liberty, but the tyranny of the market where those who don't work must "worry about not eating."

@skysiz I love it, conservatives hating conservatives, thanks for the laugh.