Winchester Model D: The WW1 Origins of the Famous Model 70

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2 жыл бұрын

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Just as World War One broke out in Europe, TC Johnson was working on a new Mauser-based sporting rifle design for the Winchester company. With the war, Johnson added options for military configurations (handguard, bayonet lug, etc) and presented the design (at this point called the Model A) to Winchester management. A few changes were made to simplify production, and the Model B was seen favorably in late 1914. However, at this time Winchester received a contract to produce Pattern 1914 rifles for the British. Johnson was put in charge of overseeing that work, which would take up almost a year of his time.
Once the Model 1914 production was smoothly underway, Johnson returned to his new rifle. The rear sight was now moved back to the receiver bridge like the P14 to become the Model C, and an economy model of the same was named the Model D. By this time the date is 1916, and Winchester was trying to market the Model D as a military rifle to a variety of nations. This particular example is chambered in 6.5 Portuguese (6.5×58mm Vergueiro), because of interest from that country. The most potential, however, came from Russia, and in late 1917 Winchester made a sample batch of 500 Model D rifles chambered for the Russian 7.62x54R cartridge. These rifles were ready in October 1917, which was not exactly an idea time to be making business deals with the Czar - and the whole effort fell apart.
After the was, the Model D was followed by the Model E and Model F, which in turn became the Model 51 and Model 54 and ultimately the Model 70, which is still in production today.
Thanks to the Cody Firearms Museum for allowing me access to film this very rare prototype rifle! Check them out here: centerofthewest.org/explore/f...
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Пікірлер: 322

@Chelanwechel 2 жыл бұрын

I inherited two old Winchester rifles from my grandpas; a model 54 from my dad's dad, and a model 70 from my mom's dad. Both have four digit serial numbers. Both are the smoothest, best feeling rifles I have ever used.

@broomhwauser3380 2 жыл бұрын

Wow wouldn't read again

@LDSG_A_Team 2 жыл бұрын

They definitely rank right up there with the best.

@appalachiangunman9589 2 жыл бұрын

The fact they belonged to your grandpas alone makes them worth never letting go, but the fact that they’re really nice rifles is icing on the cake.

@ScottKenny1978 2 жыл бұрын

@@appalachiangunman9589 amen!

@elijahsellers3727 2 жыл бұрын

Awesome

@mikeyjohnson9596 2 жыл бұрын

My grandparents took me to the Cody Firearms Museum when I was a kid in the mid-90's. They had a hard time getting me out of there. I was beyond fascinated.

@Bruhidk8835 2 жыл бұрын

Wow, that sounds nice.

@MandoWookie 2 жыл бұрын

Same story for me, just in the mid-2000s. I still keep meaning to go back.

@speedythree 2 жыл бұрын

Well worth a visit; when I was there, I could have stayed for a full day (I only got about three hours.)

@peepsbates 2 жыл бұрын

Ian: "Russia turned out to be the most promising potential contract for these rifles." Me: "Oh, cool!" Ian: *Mentions 1917* Me: "Oh no."

@wingatebarraclough3553 2 жыл бұрын

That revolution killed a lot more than that contract.. 50 million or so people between the Holodomor, the Terror, their invasion of Poland c 1920, you name it..

@80m63rM4n 2 жыл бұрын

@@wingatebarraclough3553 >50 million Why didn't you mention 1 billion people Stalin personally shot?

@herope1391 2 жыл бұрын

@@80m63rM4n I thought he killed 2 billion just by himself? Also, let's not forget about Einstein, known communist, who killed at least 5 billion by designing the atom bomb. Truly the mass genocide committed by the commies.

@bossplayerunit4563 2 жыл бұрын

@@wingatebarraclough3553 venezuela no iphone 100 billion dead

@iank6897 2 жыл бұрын

@@wingatebarraclough3553 Tankies coping hard in the comments

@donwyoming1936 2 жыл бұрын

Was lucky to grow up in Worland, Wyoming where the school system loved to send us to places like the Cody museum.

@johnstacy7902 2 жыл бұрын

Yeah but did it have a pool?

@missano3856 2 жыл бұрын

@@johnstacy7902 Uh yeah...a pool and a pond...the pond might be better for you Carl.

@jsullivan9238 2 жыл бұрын

I was at a famous gunshop in Lancastar, CA back in the 60s and was looking for a bolt rifle to rebarrel to .308 Norma Magnum. The old man himself handed me a Winchester Model D in 6.5mm and told me I could have it for 45.00. That was kinda beyond my ability to pay so he sold me an Eddystone instead for 15.00. If I had only known how rare that D was....

@Gayacegunslinger 2 жыл бұрын

All of the coolest guns are always the rarest or literally unobtainable.

@hukaman88 2 жыл бұрын

I know the feeling, I still dream of a gyrojet pistol

@bobthompson4319 2 жыл бұрын

Gyrojet is more obtainable than one of these.

@bobthompson4319 2 жыл бұрын

Ya I want one too. And not just a model 70.

@hannibalcase1100 2 жыл бұрын

Even for simple stuff, too. I've been trying to find one of those Beretta tilt-barrel Tomcats for ages.

@darrengarcia4937 2 жыл бұрын

@@hannibalcase1100 those are easy. I see alot of those and that Jetfire in pawn shops

@georgesakellaropoulos8162 2 жыл бұрын

What a gorgeous rifle. Both the bluing and the oil finish have a luster that just isn't seen on any but the most expensive firearms these days.

@stefanmolnapor910 2 жыл бұрын

And think about how mechanically built they are.... they don't make them like that anymore!

@marvindebot3264 2 жыл бұрын

@@stefanmolnapor910 Well, they do but you need 5,000 plus to be in that club.

@worldtraveler930 2 жыл бұрын

@@marvindebot3264 Sad isn't it!

@stefanmolnapor910 2 жыл бұрын

@@marvindebot3264 I own new firearms with retail over 5k, and I personally prefer the hand made days of old. That's just my opinion

@ROE1300 2 жыл бұрын

👍 Interesting history of product development by Winchester in the early to mid 20th Century. Thank you for sharing. I visited the Cody Museum 2 years ago. I intended to spend an afternoon touring it. I went back every day for 3 days and still have things to see. It is a fantastic museum in all respects. I found the City of Cody to be a charming town with very friendly people. It is a short driving distance from Yellowstone National Park and in a very scenic area.

@funkla65 2 жыл бұрын

This should be interesting. I've always thought Remington styling definitely is rooted in the 1917 Enfield.

@derweibhai 2 жыл бұрын

That rifle is a work of art

@hitokiribatusai43 2 жыл бұрын

Winchester: Hey, Mauser can I take a look at your homework I'll just get an idea Mauser: Ja! Freund The idea

@ABCantonese 2 жыл бұрын

Maaaaaan, this in 54R would be the perfect complement to the SVD and PKM, M39 Moist Nugget be damned!

@asterisk606 2 жыл бұрын

That's a great looking rifle. The aperture sight seems perfectly sized as well. It's always hard to tell through video, but the fact that the sights look good through a camera makes me think it's even better in person.

@usbiv223 2 жыл бұрын

I have a Model 70 my grandfather bought used in the 1940s or 50s alongside a Remington 721. It’s in .270. I love it, and can’t wait to teach my 5 year old daughter how to shoot it. This looks very different from my Model 70, but also very similar. Super cool!

@brentchambers511 2 жыл бұрын

Wow. What a beautiful rifle. One of those in 6.5x55 would be a lot of fun.

@Bayan1905 2 жыл бұрын

In between the Model 70 and this was the Model 54, which was much more like a military rifle than the Model 70. The Model 54 was not drilled/tapped for a scope, no hinged floorplate and the safety was more like a Mauser than what ended up on the Model 70. I owned two Model 54's over the years, and killed my first deer with one, it reminded me a lot of older military rifles like the Mauser, 1903 Springfield than the Model 70 did.

@georgesakellaropoulos8162 2 жыл бұрын

Fun fact: Charles Lindbergh carried a model 54 chambered in .30-'06 on his transatlantic flight in case circumstances forced him down in Greenland where there are polar bears.

@brendandor 2 жыл бұрын

@@Kamal_AL-Hinai yes, in most western countries there are wild and semi domestic deer which are shot and eaten in relatively small quantities compared to other meat, but probably the most common wild meat eaten.

@georgesakellaropoulos8162 2 жыл бұрын

@@Kamal_AL-Hinai Yes. Hunters in the United States kill millions each year and over 95% of them are eaten.

@onpsxmember 2 жыл бұрын

@@Kamal_AL-Hinai The deer meat is dear to us.^^

@lukeerichsen231 2 жыл бұрын

I can really see the model 54 being born from this rifle. I still shoot my grandfather's 54 chambered in .30-06. Its on its third barrel. Beautiful and smooth as butter action.

@sqeeye3102 2 жыл бұрын

What a flawless example of such a rare and interesting rifle. Thank you again for another great video.

@philips.5563 2 жыл бұрын

I like the way your video formula has stabilized into something familiar that manages to shift gears enough to stay interesting while maintaining focus.

@Siskiyous6 2 жыл бұрын

I am lucky enough to own a pre-WWII Model 70. This was an interesting look at her origins!

@johnharris1636 2 жыл бұрын

This is a great history in the linage of my 1970’s M70 in -06! The force is strong in this one! Thanks Ian!!

@alancarr3381 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks to Cody and you

@loupiscanis9449 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you , Ian .

@simonnormand2813 2 жыл бұрын

The pattern 14 were made by Remington as well, in 303. The final design was a product rendition of the pattern 13 which was designed originally in .270. The model 17 was the 3006 variety for American forces, when the Springfield supply was getting tight

@Ducklingy57 2 жыл бұрын

Love the ambient synth pad in the background

@SteamCrane 2 жыл бұрын

I sat through the entire video staring at the level of workmanship. Just awesome!

@natquesenberry6368 2 жыл бұрын

Ian drops this video, and immediately following, there is a string of attempted burglaries at the Cody Firearms museum. . .

@roteba1 2 жыл бұрын

From a time when a rifle designed for economy was still a stunning piece of craftsmanship..

@coltonh_ 2 жыл бұрын

Got to visit Cody while we were in Yellowstone this July, I absolutely loved it!

@thespecialbru 2 жыл бұрын

Not quite a p14, not quite a 1903. Should be a Goldilocks gun but I guess not, poor Mr. Johnson.

@fredandersen9873 2 жыл бұрын

I don't know... evolving into the Model 70. That's about as "Goldilocks" as one can imagine.

@JaroTheMando 2 жыл бұрын

i have that kind my grandpa got it from Vietnam once he passed i got all of his old guns that was the only one that survived the fire so now its stained black instead of the color there

@Jesses001 2 жыл бұрын

That economy prototype has deeper bluing and better wood than most higher end rifles these days. I bet this rifle would had been a favorite with the troups if it had a chance. Those sites, I can tell though the video that I would love them.

@appalachiangunman9589 2 жыл бұрын

The bluing on this rifle is beautifully done.

@Destilight 2 жыл бұрын

4:24 that's a really nice and smooth action

@tonys8243 2 жыл бұрын

Visited Cody from Australia 3 years ago before the Zombie Pandemic... well worth visiting 👍

@F1ghteR41 2 жыл бұрын

Finally someone talks about this design! I've always wondered what could become Russia's new rifle had October Revolution not intervened. This indeed looks way better than 1930 Mosins or even Arisakas. Pity there's no footage of its bolt and magazine.

@andrewbain5510 2 жыл бұрын

Visiting the Cody Firearms Museum is one of the hallmark memories of my childhood

@kevinmahaney3650 4 ай бұрын

That model D is a beautiful bolt action rifle. Both my dad and my graddad had model 70s. Great hunting rifles.

@s.p.ltd.3886 2 жыл бұрын

Does this rifle have a cone/funnel breech similar to a 1903 Springfield and the Model 70? I always assumed that the 1903 Springfield was the basis/inspiration for the Winchester Model 54/ Model 70.

@fredandersen9873 2 жыл бұрын

It appears the P14 was more of a direct ancestor of the Model 700, along with some Mauser DNA. Making the 1903, more of a first cousin, once removed.

@s.p.ltd.3886 2 жыл бұрын

@@fredandersen9873 Makes sense to me since Winchester manufactured P14s. It just seemed to me that the Model 70 breech and cock on opening more closely resembled the M1903.

@fredandersen9873 2 жыл бұрын

@@s.p.ltd.3886 from my understanding, the 1903 was Mauser based. So did Winchester do a copy of a copy, or did they go back to the source? Since the U.S. Army went back to the 1903 after WW1, vs. the M1917, my guess is Winchester felt market pressure to more closely replicate the 1903/Mauser (At least in the bolt set up).

@darkiee69 2 жыл бұрын

@@s.p.ltd.3886 But this is cock on close 4:22

@s.p.ltd.3886 2 жыл бұрын

@@darkiee69 yes but the Model 70 and M1903 are both cock on opening.

@comiketiger 2 жыл бұрын

Love it! Great information on a historic firearm. I use to shoot a 1917 quite a bit a fee years ago. Wish we would have kept it. God bless all here.

@4k8t 2 жыл бұрын

Went to Cody on a road trip that included the Buffalo Bill Center of the West and saw that museum. Fascinating. Learned something about Buffalo Bill too, when I went through his museum, which I found quite interesting. Only had time to go to two of the five museums. If we had another day, we might have gone to more since the admission was good for two days.

@ioijiopjkiopjkp 2 жыл бұрын

Looks a lot like a P14 which I happen to have in my hands right now, sweet gun!

@paulwolf7562 2 жыл бұрын

Loved the 1917 Enfield. I had an Eddystone, made in 1918. I never could understand, why the military, used the rear sight, in front of the action? The way the 1917/Model D/M-1 put the rear sight, was much better. I really miss that rifle. Especially, since I only paid about $250, back in 96. Oh well?

@WALTERBROADDUS 2 жыл бұрын

The Eddystone plant is a Walmart today. Used to work across the road.

@Spartan536 2 жыл бұрын

I just bought my Eddystone M1917 circa 1918 last year, its CMP certified and still has the original 1918 barrel, which despite being filthy when I got it, still has excellent lands and grooves.

@ScottKenny1978 2 жыл бұрын

@@Spartan536 how long did it take you to scrub the cosmoline out? 😜

@hailexiao2770 2 жыл бұрын

It's probably a holdover from the days before rifle receivers had rear bridges. Also the rear of the action is a pretty busy place already, so unless you do it right the rear sight might interfere with loading and cycling.

@WALTERBROADDUS 2 жыл бұрын

@@hailexiao2770 A good observation. Centuries of muzzleloaders have sights forward. The bolt action was still a evolving technology in 1917.

@browndogstt8546 2 жыл бұрын

The finish on that rifle is awesome!!!

@s2meister 2 жыл бұрын

And I just came back from there this weekend..... the only thing that would make that museum a better place to visit would be to run into Ian at a display so I could ask him questions. Oh well maybe next month when I pass through Cody again.

@edogould9865 2 жыл бұрын

I have a model Winchester model 54 in 3006 that I bought when I was 13 for $150.00 ish 50 years ago and it is lovely.

@jaywarren5261 2 жыл бұрын

Now that's a rifle.

@Tidebo1 2 жыл бұрын

It sure is

@terrycampbell6860 2 жыл бұрын

Lovely Winchester, would still like to get my hands on a working Win-Hotchkiss though. Thanks for the review!

@derekp2674 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks Ian, that was fascinating. That rifle looks so like a P14. I wonder if the bolt looks any different, other than for the different safety catch?

@CenlaSelfDefenseConcepts 2 жыл бұрын

Pity this would have been an awesome rifle essentially a trimmer 1917

@FrancisCastiglione 2 жыл бұрын

A truly awesome rifle.

@mikeryan7468 2 жыл бұрын

Thats a beautiful looking rifle

@gregeoryl 2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful rifle

@kantenklaus9753 2 жыл бұрын

the rifle looks great. WOW

@b.santos8804 2 жыл бұрын

That is one gorgeous rifle!

@NapoleonGelignite 2 жыл бұрын

I remember when Ian had only 20k subs.

@huntbk6286 2 жыл бұрын

Pepperidge farm remembers too

@terry7907 2 жыл бұрын

Well, I remember when he had less than two million.

@remko1238 2 жыл бұрын

… the music intro

@PajamaPantsStudios 2 жыл бұрын

This example looks absolutely stunning. Not a mark on it ANYWHERE!

@PaletoB 2 жыл бұрын

I've got two things on my list if I ever visit the US, Trail-riding near Yellowstone and Codys firearms museum. 😁

@marvindebot3264 2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful rifle, I want one.

@SlavicCelery 2 жыл бұрын

Back when they gave a hoot.

@walterblock8272 2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful, I love it. Along with M1917s, Model 30s and of course the Model 70. Blued steel and walnut will never not excite me. And a great action, made to a high standard by what was/is a fantastic company.

@ericmelto7810 2 жыл бұрын

Beautiful gun.

@Petterstrojka 2 жыл бұрын

Excellent

@al_lahn4264 2 жыл бұрын

That's a beautiful rifle!

@cjlane4465 2 жыл бұрын

Great video! Could you take a look at the 1969 BAR safari in 30-06??

@datasailor8132 2 жыл бұрын

You forgot to mention the stacking swivel.

@noleshot2713 2 жыл бұрын

I’m confused: it sounds as though this Winchester and the British P14 were developed separately, and yet they appear to be slightly different versions of the same rifle. Who came up with the design first?

@kevinoliver3083 5 ай бұрын

The P-14 was a P-13 modified to chamber .303. And the P-13 was an iterative development of the P-12 and P-11. So RSAF Enfield, in 1911

@Atma_Weapon 2 жыл бұрын

that is a sweet looking rifle. i wonder if we can get ian some range time with it.

@OhioTravelswithKris 2 жыл бұрын

Morning Ian

@dwayneelizondomountaindewh6073 2 жыл бұрын

that is very interesting

@tsmgguy 2 ай бұрын

Would like to see a video about the Remington Model 720, a sporting rifle with roots in the M1917 of WW1.

@DarthBane22 2 жыл бұрын

Cody Museum is now on my bucket list. A recommendation from Gun Jesus is all I need to hear.

@coreymerrill3257 2 жыл бұрын

If history taught me anything, it's that old " lost " export guns are now in the middle east somewhere.

@canobenitez 2 жыл бұрын

that and Toyotas are the bread and butter of ole insurgents groups, god bless them little hearts

@odell191 2 жыл бұрын

I hate it when Ian doesn't take anything apart. Such a tease. I feel like he does it on purpose.

@rednecksniper4715 2 жыл бұрын

Now I really want one in 54r

@brianj.841 2 жыл бұрын

And it has a semi-pistol grip; Mae would have been happy.

@kevinoliver3083 10 ай бұрын

So Springield bases the M1903 on the Spanish Mauser; Enfield bases P14 on the M1903; and Winchester bases the Model D on the Mauser and the P14. Winchester's patent lawyers must have hated Mr Johnson.

@ditto1958 2 жыл бұрын

Dang, they should make that rifle now Beautiful

@19redmiata94 2 жыл бұрын

That rifle looks basically new. This is also my favorite gun channel on youtube, watching the new video as soon as it posts is my nee morning tradition.

@Spartan536 2 жыл бұрын

I love my Model 1917, its one of the best WW1 - WW2 bolt actions I have ever shot. Not only is it accurate its also insanely reliable and the sights on it are IMHO superior to anything pre WW2, those peep sights are revolutionary for its time, and would later move on to the M1 Garand and carry over even to today's M4/M16 platform. I can see the appeal in the Model D, and it makes you wonder if the Russian Revolution had just been a short uprising with the Czar winning instead of the Communists what may have grown between the US and Russia.

@ScottKenny1978 2 жыл бұрын

Would have been a *very* different world, that's for sure! The US and Russia were pretty close before the communists took over.

@hailexiao2770 2 жыл бұрын

Or to take a third path, the liberal February revolution succeeding but the communist October revolution failing.

@Spartan536 2 жыл бұрын

@@hailexiao2770 Now that is an interesting twist indeed.

@user-vd652 7 ай бұрын

awesome

@Oblithian 2 жыл бұрын

very cool.

@dangercart8559 2 жыл бұрын

Had the idea of finding a bubba'd P14 Enfield and redo it in 54R. Interesting something close to my idea was actually made.

@gunnermurphy6632 2 жыл бұрын

Nooooo

@derekp2674 2 жыл бұрын

In the UK, a number of P14's were re-barrelled to 7.62x51mm (.308) for Target Rifle shooting when the .303 round ceased to be the standard military calibre. So there certainly used to be plenty of non-original P14's out there.

@ScottKenny1978 2 жыл бұрын

@@gunnermurphy6632 if it's already been bubba'd, might as well.

@23GreyFox 2 жыл бұрын

A shorter and lighter version in 7mm Mauser, plus the sight in meter would be my dream rifle.

@rodgerjohnson3375 2 жыл бұрын

I would like to own one of these.

@CrimeEnjoyer 2 жыл бұрын

Idunno if you got new gear or if it's the lighting but this video looks great.

@onpsxmember 2 жыл бұрын

Probably more reflection from the wall. Sadly the sound still needs some work. And I don't mean the lingering AC (?) sound in the background, I just dislike clipping but it's far better than usual.

@Carburetors_and_calamaties 2 жыл бұрын

Pretty sure I have one in 30-06 that I have been hunting elk with for 20 years. Looks almost identical

@Carburetors_and_calamaties 2 жыл бұрын

R. F. Sedgley only markings on it

@judgejimbobrowntown7600 2 жыл бұрын

I bet if you took that puppy to a range it shoots like a champ it’s looking more and more likely there must be a road Trip to this Cody museum

@Franky46Boy 2 жыл бұрын

There is a lot of the Enfield P14 in this rifle...

@Spectre407 2 жыл бұрын

@Ian - so how do your compare the Model D against the P-14/Model1917?

@callofdutyloser6758 2 жыл бұрын

Looks almost identical to my P17 Enfield

@shawnr771 2 жыл бұрын

Nice rifle.

@carlstevenson709 2 жыл бұрын

My DayZ boys, the Tundra

@stephenlyon1358 2 жыл бұрын

You know its going to be a good one when the gloves are on! OHHH YEAHHHHH GUN PORNNNN

@andybreglia9431 2 жыл бұрын

Your background logo showed museum in Cody, Wyoming. It has historical firearms. I'd still like to see you do a video on the Dug Up museum. It features guns that were interrupted while in the process of MAKING history.

@ForgottenWeapons 2 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/fs90ia50u9GqdIE.html

@rickv1007 2 жыл бұрын

The US paid Mauser for patents used in the 1903 Springfield. Did the P14/P17 series have to as well?

@fredandersen9873 2 жыл бұрын

Doubtful, the P14 started as a contract to build the Enfield rifle for the UK. Somehow, I just don't see them charging patent license fees. Not during a war.

@ScottKenny1978 2 жыл бұрын

@@fredandersen9873 was probably written off as part of the lend lease costs.

@rickv1007 2 жыл бұрын

@@ScottKenny1978 Lend Lease was WW2

@ScottKenny1978 2 жыл бұрын

@@rickv1007 I thought we did some for WW1 as well... At any rate, it could have been worked out as a reduction in cost for the P14s, or anything else the US was making.

@kevinoliver3083 9 ай бұрын

By the time Enfield developed the P12/13/14 series the Mauser action was out of patent.