Very kind of you to support the niche operating system called Windows

Reverse WSL development

i'm a "full-stack" game dev, and i write for windows for our client code and for linux for our server code, so i can 100% confirm they are both messes, just in different ways.

Handles on Windows are essentially indexes into an object table. Files, pipes, process handles, etc., are reference-counted objects in kernel mode. Duplicating (or inheriting) a handle increases the reference count, and closing it decreases it. The kernel object referenced by a handle is only closed if the reference counter reaches 0. As a result, if you inherit the write pipe handle to the child process, the pipe doesn't actually close as the child process continues to have a reference to the kernel mode object through its inherited handle.

57:10 > searches on ddg > stares at the screen > searches on google > clicks on the same link as the first ddg link

The fact that the"Portable Executable" format is actually not portable is so damn funny for me

Real talk I’m only booting windows to start Steam to play a game now and then, but even that is happening less and less because running them on Linux with Proton has become so good.

WINE is much more amazing than a "Windows subsystem on Linux", because Microsoft actually gave up on implementing a high performance compatibility layer and WSL2 just runs a virtual machine now.

The main issue with developing for windows is that window , for some f****** reason, decided to become unicode compliant [and when I say unicode complaint I mean fully unicode compliant] So there's like two different versions of every function that takes in or returns string one where the string is an alias of char* and one where it is a alias of uint16_t * (because Unicode 16 is 16 bit) 49:26 I answered your question before you even asked it. And they say me rambling about how stupidly complex the win 32 is is bad and unhealthy... [Literally no one says that]

PE support can be enabled in the linux kernel config. Still no WINAPI, but PE is actually supported. Also, EFI loader stubs are PE format.

I never allow notifications on youtube but i'm making an exception for your content. Great stuff!

I just noticed neofetch reports you running 4.19 kernel, it was just earlier this year I managed to boot 6.x on a T31 (mips) SoC where previously it was only booting 4.4 with the manufacturer’s firmware 😬 This is probably one of my favorite channels on KZfaq, even though I just started watching the streams on Twitch. Love watching your coding and process, it’s truly educational and inspiring.

Thanks for that effort, I'm downloading wine right now to run this cursed application when you release it.

I'll be honest, I'm here because I wanted to see which naming conventions you use to copy them, but I stay because of the passion and heart you put on your projects, and also cuz you're funny (charismatic).

What's even crazier, I can run windows as base, then WSL on windows, docker on WSL, wine inside docker, and have wine run windows applications By wrapping it in a layer of docker I ensure not only can it be tested, it can be done inside CI/CD

Finally, this is what I was looking for, thanks a lot.

@21:44 I cannot get over how hilarious it is that the most used desktop operating system in the year 2023 puts your installed programs into a directory called "Program Files (x86)". Like, this is an operating system for ordinary people, but they decided the single most important and most used folder on the entire system for normal everyday users should include a direct reference to Intel's instruction set architecture right in the clear for normals to read. It becomes especially hilarious when you consider Windows is attempting to compete in the tablet device market on Arm. I agree totally that the endgame here is for for Windows 12+ to just be a distro of Linux that comes pre-packaged with all the standard Windows applications running in Wine. I don't think that is particularly unlikely within the next couple decades.

First glance: WSL (move to another video) Wait, Windows on Linux? (move back)

good video, as always! thanks for sharing. what about adding rtaudio to visualize system sound/music? just a suggestion :)

On POSIX, you have the option to dup within the child inside the forked process. In Windows, you need to setup all semantics up front.

Way back when, I did some development on Win98, and I was always annoyed with pipes and handles. With pipes, you have to close the end you write to, and it has to be every handle to it because they're reference counted internally to the kernel, so that the reading program will know you're done writing. As for handles, when I originally read through the headers that came with VS6.0 they didn't define any handles as pointers. They were always an integer type because the kernel used them as an index into a table to reference each object. I kind of like the old WIN32 method, because it obscures things, but I'd wager it's slower than POSIX. Plus, it would have the added difficulty of trying to pass data between threads and processes where you have to tell the kernel to share it instead of just passing a pointer. However, one could restrict the indices and have smaller data duplication obstacles when copying data around. Like instead of 8 bytes to point to an object, you could pass a byte or a word or a dword. Consider if each thread had a shared pool and could use a single byte to reference the data they needed to pass. Or if you had millions of objects all referenced by a dword instead of a full qword pointer.

What software does he use for zooming into words? Does it work for screenshots?

made me laugh on a dark day. thank you.

Back in 2017 I made one File sharing app with Qt and tried to make a cross compilation for Windows on my Linux but it got bricked

I use Windows at work as an OS (Activy Directory domain, office tools, MS Teams). But I only actually work in the browser and in WSL. In the winter I'll try to compile our own company-specific WSL distro in WIndows with Visual Studio using WSL Launcher. Wish me luck xD

What video games do you play now and what are your all time favorite games?

Will you do a advent of code this year in Plan9?

Is it possible to have a single executable (one file) that will run on both Winblows & Linux? ./winlin.exe

I launched Musializer in windows, everything is fine with the rendering speed, maybe there were no normal drivers for the video card with the wine

Btw wine is not emulator , even it's name says that wine(wine is not emulator) 😅😅

Why is your cpu constantly at 80+ degrees, while only in the terminal and streaming? You should investigate that.

I laughed so fcking hard when you went in /usr/bin to grep and spell mingw's gcc name, like yeah those names are for sure ugly and really difficult to remember. Btw your videos (and streams too, I suppose) are really perfect (+ you're funny and I appreciate your desire for simple things / code / well you know what I mean, even though it's sometimes not possible). Thanks for this cool content man, we love U. A big "muah" from France

haha, love that shit. I'm doing the windows side of our project like this as well! We have a few needs for msvc, but of course we can use that in wine as well :')

Your computer haunted and sauced. I want one.

Did you ever try the cosmopolitan Libc? arguable its possible to compile single binaries which are able to not only run on Linux and Windows but also on Mac, Open- Free- and NetBSD 🤯

I've heard Windows 11 does not officially support 32-bit applications anymore . Being said, it's not a bad idea to distribute 32-bit binaries because worst case scenario you would just run them in compatibility mode. And for some reason visual studio allows you to build in 32 bit for some reason 2023 and nearly 20 years since the last 32-bit processor came out and (AMD) x86-64 is AMD 64 bit extension of the x86 architecture (which is called that because and intel had a naming convention of their CPUs being SKU XX86 where xx is the model number 8086), that is to say (AMD)x86 - x64 is an Intel thing

Oh monsieur knows the sense of perversions.

did you delete video about miniaudio?

-mwindows adds gdi32 and user32 and sets a flag in the binary that tells Windows to not create a terminal window. ProTip: Only enable -mwindows for release build so you can use printf to debug.

I remember having issues with mingw executables requiring a gcc-specific dll. Been a while, so can't say whether that's still an issue, but I remember there's a compiler flag for statically linking it, so I guess it's more like "it should work, but watch out".

What is your emacs theme moreover can you share your config and teach use somethin

`aunpack` from `atool` (archive tools) automatically unpacks zip bombs in a separate folder, IIRC

i'd definitely want to watch Zozin does his recreational programming session using that niche os called Windows (it will be really cool to see how do you use something completely different from linux)

Can wine on Linux run WSL?

This is awesome. Next do MacOS development on Linux xd

so can you run WSL in WINE ?

thats awesome, i can finally compile tail and grep for windows now then =D

crossdev mingw is my fav windows compiler

Hey, I realize this is unrelated to this video, but have you ever tried the programming language "raku" (also known as perl 6)? I looked at it recently and it's super interesting, would be cool especially for like coding challenges a la advent of code, etc.

Linux file descriptors also do have the same thing as Windows handles do have HANDLE_ FLAG_INHERIT as I understand. The way to setting this sort of flag in Linux is calling fcntl with F_SETFD with FD_CLOEXEC flag. Once I was trying to redirect the output of my program to ffmpeg through the pipes using execve, but I had the same problem as was in the vod: ffmpeg hangs and doesn't finish, but the main program closes file descriptor. But when I set FD_CLOEXEC flag to the pipe, it worked out.

I use msvc on linux to build for windows! And lld-link as a linker but msvc doesn't know where he is, and is trying to find link.exe so i maked link.exe symlink in my .local/bin And some how is working! The windows include files and libs i installed with xwin i hate "/" insted of "-"

Wine Distro?

Hello, Tsoding! I am going to watch new stream! Btw, what do you think about creating a spectrogram/spectrum analyzer? I saw one cool that visualizes sound in pseudo 3D, if you are interested, I can tell you the link :) Btw, wrote this on Windows :O

🎉🎉🎉🔥🔥

yeah, leaking handle references is a common footgun for beginners. you need to be careful about what you inherit.

NOICE

TempleOS support when?

The correct way of using the Pimpl is to use a pre-declaration: struct FFMPEG; struct FFMPEG* init(); ...

17:07 To be fair Edge is probably better optimized on windows than chrome. I did a little test. I had the same tabs opened in both of them and Edge somehow used less RAM and CPU. Don't know if it's the case all of the time though.

Well...With your joke about a niche operating system for playing games I thought about it and realised that just now I don't know anybody that uses Windows. It's all gone Mac in work and Linux for production systems. Non-nerd friends just use their Apple/Android phones and tablets.

Early in the video you asked how common it was to have a program run in WINE but not in Windows and chat said it was pretty rare. And that's probably true, but I have found that a lot of old games often don't work on newer windows versions. So people either run something like a Windows 98 VM, or just use WINE/Proton and it actually works a lot better! (:

Some applications target 32-bit to support older hardware because 64-bit Windows can still load 32-bit applications and reverse is not true. Many developers (corporations on Windows 😄) release only 32-bit versions of their apps so users don't assume their apps don't work when they download 64-bit binaries onto a 32-bit system. In some cases the app is simple enough that using 32-bit binaries has very few drawbacks. 32-bit performs worse than 64-bit though in some cases so you did the right thing in picking 64-bit target. AFAIK, 32-bit processors are being actively phased out and only embedded systems will continue using 32-bit arch.

gotta love those mingw executable names 😂

WSL on wine when?

MPD Support when?

I allowed a windows 8 machine in my network, updated everything, set the BIOS, ensure it restored… then I came back a month later and it wouldn’t talk to any Microsoft DNS names. I couldn’t figure it out. Restored multiple times: soft restore, full restore. The thing was not going to talk to microsoft. I’ve never had anything like that happen with Linux.

Heey Zozin, I'm sorry for using Windows 😣

Things are going slow on windows land and they are a little slow with it. But most of them have switched I believe

I wonder does windows do newline fixing bs ( -> ) in pipes

Where is the kiss at the end?? No kiss for youtube?

Tsoding not forgetting about the minority using Win**** God forbid

16:04 he can *smell* his audience

Am i right in thinking this is not a realime audio-responsive visualiser and that is being pre-rendered?

11:58 I wouldn't bet on it, there is detectable differences between wine and win32. Like people were getting auto banned from games 4 using wine That's how significant the difference is.. valves branch of wine, I think it's called atom, might work better, even still though a valve does not guarantee 100% compatibility . The only way to guarantee windows compatibility is to link with the real Windows.h and the only way[legally ; assuming they didn't change their redistribution policy] to do that is to program on Windows with the visual C++ compiler.

Why os the tux in the thumbnail looking to me like a creepy doki doki literature club character

man discovers cross compilation

45:15 why is this so funny hahahahahahah

Definition of CHAD

Ah the Windows thing people use, yeah, bunch of gamers.

What is that "Porn folder"?

спасибо, всю жизнь произносил MinGW как "минг В"

Tsoding learned about cross compilers, wow

I can’t stand doing system development in windows. The win 32 api feels so different than posix

More Ded plz

12:51 I mean yeah sure it was a joke but you're not wrong, says the daily windows driver. (Ironically, I am a daily windows driver for the exact same reason you used the Linux in this video. That is I couldn't be bothered to install Linux on my computer; and also I also paid $100 for it. I want to get my $100 out of it and also as you said gaming but also valves doing stuff to change that)

footnote: 2:01:48

This man makes me feel dumb

"Who still uses this niche operating system for video games?" This is literally how I feel lmaoooo.

windows is great for eworms and viruses, you get all sorts of cool ads, i remember fixing (or attemting to) an elderly lady's windows pc and she had a fake antivirus malware thing that she was arguing with me that she needed it. So she was firing up this software running scans everyday yet it was just perpetually infected, in hindsight i bet she was calling some of those helpful folks over at the india wing of microsoft support and paying them in steam gift cards daily

You can compile a rust into a WASM app [holy f*** girls speech to text actually got. Was them correct the first time?]

doesnt linux have the same problem? you start child processes with fork/exec, which inherits all fds. so you usually have to close all of the parents fds in te child...

Wine = Linux Subsystem for Windows

Thank you (!) for saying that AI confabulates instead of it hallucinates. It's one of my biggest pet peeves right now. It might seem like minor gripe, but the difference is comparable to saying "the dog eats shit from the floor" and "the dog shits on the floor". Though the fact that the majority of people still say it incorrectly just goes to show that wrong ideas based on shallow understanding spread like wildfire, and nobody gives a shit to check them, even if it's a complete misuse of a word.

Make a java project video

As a casual Windows hater, who sometimes uses Windows to play games, I do enjoy your hot takes. Even though they are sadly not serious.

Simple

Hi

c and c++ is always a nightmare on cross plat, it's so difficult. Just the whole ecosystem isn't great, low level languages like Zig and Rust have great tooling by default.

Wine = WINdowsEmulator. :)

We’re programmers, we don’t do Physical Education lmao