Linus played DnD once and now uses "8 sided die" when describing possible outcomes.

I'm so glad for this approach. Linus has literally spent 10 years complaining about stupid windows problems on KZfaq - it's easy to forget how bad it can be when you're just used to it. Frogs in boiling water kinda thing

We are so used to windows that we don't even realize how bad some things are. Updates, settings, Microsoft authentication, etc.

If you ran Windows Update on an overclocked 5950x with 128GB of RAM, an NVMe 4.0 RAID 0 array, on a 10GB network... it would still take its sweet time "thinking about it".

What's even more fun about the Windows installer is that it doesn't tell you anything about the drives you have other than the capacity. Which is really fun when you have 3 2TB SSDs in there and one of them is the PCIE gen 4 drive that you'd like to be your boot drive and the other two are full of other things that you can't afford to lose. It's really frustrating because it kind of forces you to only have one drive in when you do the initial install then shut the pc down and add your others.

Linus refers to Microsoft as a multibillion dollar company. Me: "That doesn't sound right." Googled it. 2.56 trillion market cap. "That's more like it."

11 seconds is a perfectly reasonable amount of time for an update check-even on Linux most package managers will take 5-10 seconds to go through all its source lists, and often longer. The issue with Windows is that it can take multiple minutes and still be stuck loading, and you have no idea if it's because the process is bugged out or the internet is bad or whatever.

For as much money and central organization there is, windows is crappy with MANY things. I can't wait for Valve to come out with a good solid distro.

Funnily, this gets me more excited for the Steam Deck, or at least the support Linux will be getting from it.

11 seconds?! It took 37 seconds for me and that's one of the fastest times. Windows takes ages to check if there are any updates.

And here I thought it was just me, thinking I messed up how I set things up. When I hear the experts dealing with the exact same issue I know it's not me. Windows 7 was easier for gaming and networking than windows 10 is by several miles.

my general thinking of why Windows is broken these days is they're putting more engineers at Azure development than doing Windows development

That issue with the boot loader on secondary drive? Holy shit I was there and it caused a shitton of anxiety when I initially thought I busted my PC and I didn't know how. I don't even remember how I recovered but black magic sounds about right

Setting up the Microsoft accounts for Minecraft for my kids was WAY more trouble than it should have been. That was stupidly difficult.

As a Linux user I simply hate the Windows install process that gives away your privacy by default, having to use Edge/Explorer to install Firefox, the update process (for Windows and apps), or really just not having a tiling window manager. Being stuck with a desktop environment I'm not familiar with makes me go nuts. At least Windows users have KDE as an option.

Long time linux user (nearly daily since 2005). I've long felt like after getting linux set up initially, regardless of distro, but specifically .deb based distros, they are MUCH less maintenance, and easier to keep up to date than windows. I've had an desktop that has been upgraded in-place since ubuntu 10.04 through 21.10, and it still works great, across multiple motherboards and cpus. I've never had that kind of luck on windows, and that machine is a dual boot, so I have a track record to compare with here. A few times windows update has broken windows and grub, and I've had to fix both. I've had far more windows problems than linux ones over the years, and none of the linux problems on this computer required a linux reinstall, and I've had to install a new version of windows when an upgrade didn't work, or reinstalled windows at least 5 times since 2010. For more context: I use linux for work/personal stuff, and windows is ONLY for gaming. It does NOTHING else, and still breaks more.

I'd love to know so much how the internal process of Windows update work. Because as you said - it's just baffling. This should be a simple request where my PC sends "here are the updates I have" and server responds "Ok, here are the updates you don't have". I understand that Windows is on billions of PCs so you need multiple servers/datacenters and releasing a patch isn't a simple process. But still how can it take so long?! Even in complicated architecture like this. I'm just out of ideas. Or is it like decompilling some .dlls to figure out their versions or what?

Love my current Windows update problem where it's installing the same update over and over. It claims it's finished each time, but it never actually does.

This is an important subject to touch upon, especially with the negative aspects of Linux addressed in the first part. Sure, people were talking about that "Yes, do as I say" in part one but Windows has a pretty similar thing with its update center. It is pretty much an unwritten rule that Windows updates need to be delayed for a while after all.

I've fixed my windows bootloader atleast 3 times now, all for fun.

Last time I used Windows, seemed like the checking for updates was a few minutes, but the actual installation was a few hours. I always hated how it could never give you a straight answer what phase of the install it was on other than vague downloading 75% and being hung on that forever, or installing 10% and hung on that forever. Linux, depending on which distro, but usually very much the same, a few moments on pulling the update list, and 15 minutes tops installing updates on a fresh Linux machine, considerably less if you have really fast internet/repo connection and an NVMe drive. Also, you can usually see exactly which phase of update you are on, depending on update method, but using terminal you know exactly what its doing at that moment.

It's sounding like Linus and Luke are starting to warm up to using Linux more and more. It makes me happy to hear : )

The workaround for being able to configure your game folders or even remove them is a PITA on w10 - have to do an administrator rights dance to access the folder itself then set them for the folders you want to remove or edit.

The best thing for me about Linux updates is that it applies them to all the software on the system and not just the os

1:13 I've literally watched windows update sit on a 99% download of something for literal days. And I've also seen windows update completely refuse to download major updates before windows defender updates or the malicious removal program update (which are usually the ones that get stuck)

That boot loader bug happened after I put my laptop back together, that was extremely annoying taking it apart again to remove the other drive

yes please do part six. this is very educational and intresting :)

Windows Update alone is a HUGE reason why I'm REALLY trying to learn the ins and outs of Linux as best as I can, and I also happen to be attending Tech school so I've been making HUGE progress with it. Right now I'm rockin' Linux Lite and I LOVE it, even if I can't run some of my games, I can still play my modded Minecraft, and have been able to get my old Unreal Tournament 2004 running on Wine, as well as finding all the alternate programs to replace what I use on Windows.

Hey, that bootloader randomly deciding to install on the secondary drive thing happened to my sister. That was a headache

Yup that boot loader issue has been around for a long long time.

Something I've noticed more recently is just how many resources are taken up when I first open the settings app too. It does a fine job when being unused, it doesn't take up much at all when not in use, but the second I open it, my laptop will struggle for a bit before loading the settings app again.

Yes, asking a new user to install Windows on a bare metal machine would be very appropriate as a counterpoint to the current Linux challenge. And just to make things interesting have them do it on a machine from one of the OEMs like Dell or HP or fill in the blank. Installation media - oh snap! they don't provide that. The license key is in the BIOS, so if you want to do a fresh install because you need to wipe the machine or your hard drive crashed or whatever, now you have to go through the dance of where do I find the install media? Tell me that the average user will know how to go on to the Microsoft website download the install media make a bootable USB stick... Seriously?

I have a Chromebook and the updates are seamless and when the computer restarts and applies the update it doesn't take any more time then a normal restart, however chromeOS does have its own serious issues none the less

Windows for sure has a lot of problems (looking at you settings), but Windows update get's this crazy bad rep when it's primary competition MacOS's updates are far worse. I have never had a Windows update do anything worse than break a single application. I have had MacOS updates brick my entire laptop, delete my files, break all of my programs, make it so that I can't even type in a password on the login screen without a restart every time (how is this even possible). So if we are going to rag on Windows update, can we at least also bring up how bad MacOS updates are? Honestly the only good update experience I have is Android updates now that they fork the OS and install in the background to just boot into the new instance on restart.

That bootloader on the wrong drive happened when I cloned my old nvme drive to my new one this summer. it took me a week of many hours per day to figure it out. I've never been so frustrated with a computer problem in my life.

Usually as soon as you start linux up (almost any distro) once you log in it shows you exactly what updates you need and how large the files are.

I remember when I recently built my new computer (my first time ever building one myself), I had two SSD drives installed, one PCIE 4.0 and the other a 2.5' SATA. The Windows installer doesn't tell you anything about the drives except for their size, so I had to guess which one since both were 1TB. I ended up putting it on the wrong drive and had to remove the 2.5' SSD entirely to reinstall windows on the other drive, then wipe the other one to remove the windows boot on it. What a fun experience.

The system backup configuration screen, in Windows 11, is buried behind a small link under "File History", and when you bring up the screen the title is "Backup and Restore (Windows 7)". How hard would it be to just change that string to just be "Backup and Restore" so it's not confusing to users?

The exact issue you discribed i resently fixed for a friend, it was accually after i figured i would have to do a complete reinstall that i made progress and got it working

I think I had that boot loader issue! I was so confused, but I got it fixed.

And the longer you use Linux, the more an increasing number of typically overlooked problems with Windows becore both obvious and increasingly frustrating for you. It's fitting that it's called Windows, as that's what I want to throw a computer through after 10 minutes in that horrendous OS these days.

Funny how he said that with the bootloader on another drive ... for like 5 years or so i was running an 10 year old SSD because it had my bootloader. Sole reason why that ssd was still in my system. Had a fun time fixing that a few months ago

I had that exact same Windows installer issue the other day. I spent DAYS trying to figure it out. Windows sometimes even refused to install because it thought the small FAT32 boot partition on my Linux drive was the Windows system partition.

If you install Windows first, GRUB will recognize it by default on most distributions. If it doesn't, it's just a matter of setting GRUB_DISABLE_OS_PROBER=false in /etc/default/grub (or the equivalent file on your distribution). The other way around might is more tricky.

Me: Windows, is there a new update? Windows: Always "Is there a new update" with you, never "how is the new update" with you. Come on man. Just give these updates some love. We're breaking our ass for you to fix these miniscule bugs and you're like "gimme gimme!" You want an update? Here's the new update. Me: Jeez, okay.

I have worked for years in IT. Windows is great in many way, I have been very lucky that I have not had any major software issues and mainly hardware issues. OpenVPN sucks, the 2 IT companies both supported fortinet and openVPN, I would have so many issues with ovpn, I did with fortinet as well, but significantly less. If someone was new to computers and asked me what OS I would recommend I would offer some linux options, however, I would still offer windows as some things are just easier for the end user. I can't wait for the day that linux gets more support and is heavily supported by game and software devs. For now, I will keep working on my first attempt to daily drive linux. It's been hard but I have a unique situation aka very budget tight gaming/streaming pc that did its job well, but is underpowered for Web development (full stack). So I decided to build my own artix linux os and set up,my own desktop enviroment to keep it light on resources. My biggest issue so far has been my 2060 super, with the recent news I hope that changes soon.

Whenever I reinstall Windows (about once every few months), I give the installer one try and then just immediately go to using DISM and diskpart, which takes way less time, but took me several hours to figure out. Linux, I spend like 3 or 4 hours deciding on a distro and then go with Arch, which I just sort of half remember. One thing that I did figure out is that rather than installing a bootloader, I can just stuff the kernel, initramfs, and a splash screen into an EFI binary, which is way easier than any bootloader.

2:00 Maybe it needs to search within 100's of files for some data. When you request the status of installed patches, check if it is using disk, memory, CPU, ...

I also had the bug! Now, everytime I reinstall windows I disconnect all my other drives 😂.. I'm to scared that this happen again

Let's just talk about how unacceptable it is for Windows to look like an inconsistent mess. Most Linux distros more consistent and polished despite being free and being maintained by smaller devs.

oh man that bootloder issue has been around since Windows 7, I remember encountering it years ago and ended up having to format and reinstall because I wiped the second drive I removed so there was no hope of fixing it.

The point where they switched away from the Windows 7 style settings (like the Network and Sharing Center) instead of just improving them was where I was done with Windows. I have been using Debian on servers since 2014, was brought into desktop Debian by my apprenticeship in software development (where installing closed-source operating systems on company hardware was not allowed unless explicitly permitted) and have been on the same Arch installation since 2018 - never looked back. If there is something that doesn't work on Linux, just use virt-manager to create a VM. Maybe pass through a GPU if you need it. Takes a bit of work but once you know how to do it and wrote your own notes and scripts for it, everything becomes easy.

With 9 operating systems multi-booting from three disks, if I run Windows setup, it would be like playing Russian roulette with a clip pistol. The trick is to start setup on a VM, then clone the partition after the second restart, set the boot loader and registry, and it will happily boot the out of box experience.

Regarding the "you need Windows Game bar to invite friends". Some Steam games also require the Steam Overlay so that you can invite friends to your games. Otherwise I would get no "Invite list".

On linux mint i compulsively check for updates because seeing them get downloaded unpacked and installed through the command line (automatically) is very satisfying to me.

0:20 Can confirm. My install is on drive C, and the bootloader is separated and somehow ended up on a second ssd, drive D. Win won't boot without the second ssd hooked up - love it.

Personally I’d like to say that I’ve had so many issues with the windows installer. I’ve had the issue where windows puts the boot loader on the wrong drive, it took me forever to figure out that was the problem and I had to just disconnect all other drives. I’ve also had issues where my windows installer usb just completely stops working after I use it 1 time, and I have to reformat it and download windows all over again to use it again. It sucks

Microsoft pushing their Microsoft-Account, Edge, etc. regardless of my chosen preferences is what turned me to Linux part-time. Therefore, a dual-booting hint from a part-timer: 1. Look at a tutorial online 2. Do that 3. Literally never do it again, because once it is set up, it should work forever If something unexpectedly fails after 2 weeks: Back to 1.

0:40 few months ago totally loved losing a terabyte of data when the secondary drive broke 🙂

I have actually experienced this the boot loader issue. It's kind of wild when it happens.

Now I know what happened when I gave windows a chance and try dual-booting for valorant. I knew windows just likes to ruin itself, but damn I don't fucking know why was there a fucking windows bootloader overriding my grub ON A DIFFERENT DRIVE!!!

WSL is an amazing piece of technology, as is Office 365 and Azure. I feel like all the really capable people at Microsoft have been gravitating to working on exciting stuff like that and thus there is nobody to fix the boring stuff like the settings or Windows Update.

on macOS and iOS updates are almost just as simple, you just click into the software update section and it just takes a few seconds to check and show you the newest update (plus it does automatically update overnight)

Wow, I should've watched this when it came out, I just had that 2nd drive bootloader issue on the new year after setting my new PC set up.

Windows Update takes a lot of time because Windows updates aren't app packages or firmware updates. They are patches in an 'update format'. Windows has to check every update package and approve them in order to pull the newer patches and its dependencies. That's why it takes so long. This was worse in older versions since Windows pre-10 were built only once per service pack. They were not rebuilt again so every change they do stayed as an update package, which broke a lot of things. I remember Windows 7 updates taking actual hours to even start listing the updates to choose. (Windows 10 gets rebuilt every 6 months. Windows 11 gets rebuilt every year.)

Microsoft isn't just a "multi-billion dollar corporation", they're a TRILLION dollar corporation now.

I LOVE that you guys do a video like this too! It shows me that you are really capable of self-reflection.

wait, there's a part 6 released? when were the other 4 released? i didn't get a notification on anything like that going on

Not to mention Windows Games for Live or some bullshit like that, a lot of old games are not playable because of that.

Am I the only person that I don't have any issues with Windows updates? I don't recall a single time that I have been inconvenienced by it. But how long it takes to know if you need updates or not does need to be resolved

Linus you should do a show with a couple of episodes focused on tech for kids/parents. With those options on android for parental permissions, maybe online gaming permissions or in-home internet permissions or webfilters.

THANK YOU for mentioning this. I had this boot loader issue and had to clone the windows boot manager over my drive to get my files back lol

11 seconds? More like minutes sometimes!

For the windows bootloader issue, I was copying over my windows install to a new SSD via macrium reflect and somehow that created two seperate bootloaders in bios that were on the same drive. So I was sitting there confused AF because of the BSOD. Tried the command line fix, it didn't detect my bootloaders at all. Ended up randomly clicking around in bios desperately and found the issue. The fact that this could happen with just a simple copy-paste to new drive is beyond me.

The problem with the bootloader being on a separate drive to the boot partition has been around forever. It happened to me on XP, Vista and 7. After that I worked out that the main drive should be connected to SATA_0 and that makes Windows consider it the primary drive.

dual booting with windows 10/11 and secure boot is an absolute nightmare, separate drive install was a good call

Is there an OS where the Check for Updates is instantaneous? Windows Updates definitely takes longer than it should, but I've used several Debian/Ubuntu and derivatives, and running apt update has never been instant for me. It's certainly faster than Windows Update, but it's also generally on the order of seconds to hit all of the package repos and compile an update list, certainly a whole lot more than milliseconds.

One of the problems with Windows - Modern Standby and bugs with all the software and firmware related to it. But to be honest it never worked on Linux at all.

I've had so many times where Windows installed the boot related stuff to the first drive instead of the second drive and messed up my Linux install. I've learned to just remove the drive or disable the port in the BIOS until I'm done

I always loved how windows told you it had some issue and then asked you if you'd like it to resolve it, as though you may not want to be a bother to it

I'm using GNU+Linux for 6 years now and I have to say sometimes it really sucks when things don't work. But that's the price I'm ready to pay for a software I truly own. Unlike windows where I pay for a it and it basically is Microsoft's spyware.

Minecraft for Windows 10 is a nightmare. I had to port over from Java which I've been using for 10+ years because my friend didn't have it purchased, he had gamepass. It wouldn't install for whatever reason, and I had to go to apex servers because the Minecraft native "servers" don't stay up while you're offline. At least I got my money back when we gave up.

Well, if you try to update on arch, it need to sync the repositories first before it know what to update. It usually took about 15 seconds for me.

Am I missing something? When you click check for updates what I assume happens is that windows sends a request to their cloud server, the server processes the request and then sends back a response. Isn't 11 seconds like a perfectly reasonable time window for that to happen?

Speaking of windows update, forget about using your computer if you haven't turned it on in a month or two. The amount of time your computer will run like absolute crap while windows does TONS of stuff in the background is WAY too long. I can not use my spare Linux Laptop for Months at a time, and when I log in to Manjaro, it's fine. Whenever I log into windows on that laptop after several months, it takes several hours for the CPU usage to drop from windows update, anti-malware, etc.

Windows may be crappy but it makes up for it by being relatively user friendly, it's the inverse of Linux.

Can we get a video on how to fix that boot loader on wrong drive thing with windows?

00:43 Had to recreate my bootloader yesterday and it‘s true, it takes very long and would be very hard for any normal user.

Haha that's hilarious

The windows problems seem to be oonga boonga to me, I don't understand anything you said. But on linux, most problems are what even regular users have

wonky shit with fullscreen alt tab and task manager can be frustrating as hell. I have had many times where I have had to restart just because a game froze and even though I could see the rest of my pc working, alt tab wouldn't work and task manager would pop up but as soon as I click on it the game takes over fullscreen again, still frozen.

the bootloader problem happened to me so many times that I got used to unplugging all my drives during a windows install

Biggest problem I feel is, when you just bought a new computer takes forever to get ready to use. Mac is so much faster.

Yeah I've had the bootloader on my hard drive instead of my boot SSD a couple of years back.. It was a real pain to fix. Since then I always deactivate all drives except my boot SSD in the BIOS when installing Windows.

Theres an unfixed bug with windows 10 where the task bar has like a 20% chance of not going away in full screen until you click the start button. It's annoying.

I just love watching you guys, you're maybe the best on the fricking net.

The bootloader on a different drive exists at least since Windows 10, maybe even earlier. Best way to avoid this issue, is by plugging in only the drive where you install Windows and connect the other drives after the installation is finished.

In India the main update repository for kali linux is so slow that you need to wait 30 mins to apt update. Though you change the repository from source list and it works fast. Sadly windows doesn't let us select fastest server.

I actually can't put in another SSD because it's impossible too force windows to boot from old one. It constantly wants to boot from empty drive

I had a bug in Forza 4 where I would drop from public lobbies into single player. Had to go to my router and enable ipv6to4 tunnel option to fix it. Most people don't want to mess with that.