I haven't shared a video on how past social justice politics differs from today's woke hyper identity politics. I am in two minds about this. For now I have been tempted to leave explaining the difference to others. That's because I think the problem is likely to be further back than people simply failing to tell the difference. It would feel like arguing that an elephant is different to a zebra. There is already something wrong with the conversation if you have to make that argument. That's because the difference is not close, it's not subtle. It's vast, and it has permeated institutions including political parties, media institutions, and universities. At least in the US and UK. That rather points to my role being about helping make sense of this, rather than persuading those who can't see it that it's real. But it's a complex world, and there is also much pointing in the opposite direction. Here is one such consideration. A large proportion of the arguments against the toxicity and political harm of hyper-identity-politics has come from (1) the Weinstein brothers, Jordan Peterson etc; that's to say pop intellectuals (2) to a lesser degree from left wing opinion journalism (e.g. Freddie de Boer, Kyle Kulinski) That's to say - very few major intellectuals, intellectuals in the non-Pop sense, have come out strongly on this. One prominent example is Mark Lilla, with his book The Once and Future Liberal. John Gray has come out on it - as a public intellectual. And Michael Ignatieff did a minor talk about it. But it is very limited. Avishai Margalit, Charles Taylor, Alasdair MacIntyre - arguably 3 of the leading philosophers who comment on politics have said very little. This has left the anti-woke argument in the hands of either (1) people who lean right (being anti-woke has nothing to do with being left, right or centre), or (2) Pop figures, or, worst of all, (3) intellectual entrepreneurs who swim about and scheme to ride the waves of public opinion in a quite transactional way.
@roflmaodudeable Жыл бұрын
Do you feel this might be because any kind of attempt to criticize wokeism is a meal ticket to get slapped with all kinds of labels and shunted into a box full of people who hold quite radical views in the opposite direction? I feel like the black and white "for us or against us" disposition that wokeism keeps to on many if not all of its positions make it very hard to criticize publicly unless you: A: don't give a damn about the social and career consequences that might follow B: like you pointed out, have a transactional gain to make from opposing it, or are speaking to and have built up an audience that's receptive to the criticism C: Find the danger of unchecked wokeism outweighs any personal risks Doubly so because wokeism has coopted the moral high ground, and any criticism automatically paints you as unlovely and unvirtous.
@mikehjt Жыл бұрын
Near as I can make out, you've not explained just what this 'woke hyper identity politics' is, who exactly is promoting this in any significant way and how it is extreme compared to past identify politics. Is there anyone who describes themself as "wokist" or as subscribing to "wokism" the way folk describe themselves as "marxist" or as subscribing to "marxism"? I'm familiar with the origins of "woke", largely via reading Black American media like The Root, but it seems to me that "wokism" is a right wing slur term used only by opponents of 'identity politics' when it is anything but white, male, cis, religious, national identities. All of those have been the basis of identity politics but people don't use "identity politics" of them but pretend their particular politics are merely 'neutral' or 'normal'. And when you use "hyper", remember, Nazism was national identity politics , the Ku Klux Klan, white terrorism, disenfranchisement of Blacks and 100+ of economic disadvantage was white identity politics, the restriction of the franchise to men was gender identity politics, Putin uses religious (Russian Orthodox) identity politics and the right in America jumping up and down about trans rights as being the end of civilization is cis identity politics. As 'identity politics' go, 'wokism' is of the mildest sort when you realize that, contra the right, it is not the only identity politics out there. IMO, promoting the idea of 'wokism' as a threat to democracy is promoting the right wingers in western democracies. When you find yourself slamming the same folk as the Marjorie Taylor Greenes, QAnons, Orbans and Putins of the world, you need to ask yourself whether you're suffering from a failure of target selection.
@mikehjt Жыл бұрын
@@roflmaodudeable When you are using a term that is only used by opponents, and nobody describes their own politics as "wokism" or themselves as "wokist" (like marxism and marxists) you invite being lumped in with Ron DeSantis, Marjorie Taylor Greene, QAnon, etc. Adopting the far right's term for believing that work needs to be done on equality beyond an essentially marxist focus on economics makes you an ally of theirs, whether witting or unwitting.
@roflmaodudeable Жыл бұрын
@@mikehjt I find it very limiting to view everything in terms of allies and enemies. I don't care whose camp my views put me in according to others. There's plenty of points "woke" people make that I agree with, what makes me weary of them is that it's impossible to criticize them without being ostracized in some form. As soon as I see a reactionary thing like that happening it's a sign that a movement is on it's way to moral corruption. If you can't be criticized, you can do no wrong, and will believe your own evil deeds to be for the benefit of mankind.
@cofa4011 Жыл бұрын
Vlad, please, dig that topic !!
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
Share where you stand on this debate in the comments - CHAPTERS: 00:00 Then & Now vs Carefree Wandering on Wokeism 01:05 The problem with the Then & Now take on Wokeism 01:35 Carefree Wandering on the sovereign individual 02:08 individualism vs collectivism 03:57 Isaiah Berlin & social explanation 06:13 Is Wokeism Civil Religion? Is Wokeism religious? J.S Mill. 09:18 Political implications of Wokeism missing from Then & Now and Carefree Wandering discussion. 10:05 Democratic decline in the west and Wokeism 12:20 Wokeism institutional capture 18:50 Wokeism as a fantasy of deliverance from conflict
@08infidel2 жыл бұрын
You have a bright future ahead of you. I admire your intelligence and well thought analysis on the issue of wokeism in political situations. I do hope that Western style democracies can survive sailing into the ocean. I haven’t made a comment in a KZfaq video in many years; but you sir inspired me once more.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Great to have you words - rare as they are!
@futureshocked Жыл бұрын
Hey there Vlad, I have to say as a 41 year old black american I was expecting to cringe at this video...and I did, a bit, but not a lot. You're getting some things right but can I provide some context where I feel like you're getting it wrong? 1. I don't know what 'wokeism' means. I really don't. Is 'wokeism' my lived experience where I watched a town really die off from prosperity due to the combination of the war on drugs and the general anti-worker sentiment of the 80s? Or is 'wokeism' the annoying, usually white, liberal who is really just using these issues in sadistic, narcissistic and counterproductive ways? I ask that because... 2. I don't think the frame of your argument is correct. In your pinned comment you state that this is a video on how "...past social justice politics differs from today's woke hyper identity politics", when I don't think it does. As in, no, there's always been an annoying 'hyper left' since the 1900s. When I look over any black social justice movement, feminist movement, etc, there has always been an element that does more harm than good. But... 3. Those elements, to me, are no where nearly as actually harmful as the alternative. When it comes to the fascistic right, we *can not care* about what they deem to be a "gift" or not. A fascistic element has no interest in debate anyway and will use whatever social issue they can as a rift. It's odd to me to 'blame wokeism' when the right has been using Abortion, welfare, and other issues as massive cultural wedges, and those things aren't even inherently racial or gendered. US conservatives hate abortion and welfare as a rule. I would agree that we on the left get caught up arguing on the particulars, but that's like getting upset at people for not knowing what to do when someone just throws a grenade into a room... 4. Which is my last disagreement and looping back to the first point--the idea that it is a 'fantasy of deliverance from conflict'. Mmm, no. I'd say it's a fantasy of deliverance from unchecked and blase contempt towards true individualism that blocks eventual true unity. And I don't think that's a fantasy that's unallowed to be had. You have to consider that through neuroscience we have hard evidence of cultural maladies like narcissism, racism, alcoholism, abuse, etc take their toll down to the genetic level. To say that wanting a true alternative to that is a fantasy is actually an avoidance of the numbers and science that we have on these issues. I'm not being nihilistic when I ask, 'what do we want to save the climate for'? I don't think that that's a juvenile question--a sociopath would want to save the climate as well, but after that is said and done, they won't stop being a sociopath. We need to treat and spot these things simultaneously and stop playing into this bad game theory that we don't have time or capacity for both.
@mrc15002 жыл бұрын
Fascinating stuff, Vlad. I'm no philosopher but I'm enjoying listening to what you have to say. I'll definitely be back. Thanks.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Thank you!
@ameenomar19113 жыл бұрын
Are we gonna just sit here and pretend like this dude does not look like Eminem?
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
😂
@evelcustom98642 жыл бұрын
I think an important question is how prevalent is true Wokeism, in its most negative identity politics connotation. As in I am because I am Woke and I am the way. To the right, any highlighting of social inequities and discussion of correcting them is labeled and dismissed as Wokeism. On the left the argument is often that Wokeism doesn't exist, and is just a way for the right to dismiss social change with a Red Herring. How prevalent is it in reality. I mean, is it primarily a phenomenon of social media voices and content creators, who really do only make up a tiny portion of society, or is it much more prevalent, and is it an actual probelm or s it just a Red Herring (bit of both perhaps)?
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
It’s the third biggest threat to the survival of democracy, I sometimes say. The no 1 threat is parts of the right giving up on democratic institutions. These are absurd statements of course, but useful as short hand indicators of how to judge each challenge. I haven’t made a video yet that answers your question, but I will. Wokeism is today obstructing left wing and centrist political parties in several western countries, as well as university bureaucracies, journalistic institutions and climate movements. This is a major crisis which renders the left and centre politically ineffectual and invites the hard right to succeed. - this diagnosis is compatible with democratic right wing politics but equally compatible with Green New Deal, a vote for eg Bernie, the view that racism is systemic etc. In an old video on whether wokeism is Neo Marxist, I explain why it isn’t and is in fact a deformation of liberal values. I will be coving this more.
@evelcustom98642 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler I do see these elements. Climate sensationalism vs scientific, systematic, and pragmatic approach to climate solutions. Forced embracing of alternative lifestyles vs liberal acceptance of the rights of others to live in their own mode. I wonder, it seems that in some ways the initial wave of right wing reaction to social movements was a pendulum swing against 90s middle class social awakening, which in itself was a reaction to 80s neo-liberalism (I know it's not quite that linear). In that sense is modern day Workism a reaction to the reaction? In the sense that the right wing had closed ranks and dug their heels in on climate denialism etc to such an extent that the left began catastrophising in order to be heard?
@erichbrough60972 жыл бұрын
@@evelcustom9864 if I might interject a question, does Greta Thunberg necessarily fit this aspect of being 'woke'?
@evelcustom98642 жыл бұрын
@@erichbrough6097That's a great question, I honestly don't know. I know very little about Greta Thunberg. I know she's quite young. I know that the 'left wing' has been using her as a mascot of climate activism and the 'right wing' has been using her as the effigy of wokeism. In all honesty, if she is nothing more than 'Woke', she's allowed to be, she's an adolescent, it's in their nature to be hyper idealistic. I'll also say this, if the scientific consensus is correct, and there are really catastrophic global changes coming, then it's interesting that it has come to screeming children to cut through the din
@lost.projects387 Жыл бұрын
It’s real, especially in urban cores in the USA, and in daily life it does rear it’s head in ways that personally affects those around me. Many of whom would consider themselves ‘woke’ (but I suspect really haven’t given it particularly deep thought). When ‘felt’ (rather than discussed) it’s usually a negative thing and revolving around someone trying to use it as a tool to get something they want. Still, with that said, it’s not as prevalent, or as egregious in real day to day life as you would think if you rabbit hole on the issue on KZfaq.
@bronim73112 жыл бұрын
Thank you for your insightful videos, especially at this point in time. I personally thought it to be a kind of narcissism, where certain people are exploiting legitimate issues for their own agenda(s), but ultimately undermining them. Taoist philosophy argues that extremes in viewpoints have a tendency to be myopic. I see this in issues like climate change denial, but also woke politics. I really appreciate your content, and glad I found your vlog.
@martintocaj2 жыл бұрын
Hi Vlad. I discovered Carefree Wandering last week and, naturally, caught up with great the content as fast as I could. I was glad to find your videos commentating and also providing some balancing insight to this discussion.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Thanks so much. What KZfaq channels do you follow the most for similar discussion?
@martintocaj2 жыл бұрын
@Vlad Vexler I guess I haven't followed any channels for discussion, specifically, until recently, when I stumbled upon Carefree Wandering and the adjecent videos from yours and Then&nows channel. What led the algorithm and myself to this discussion I assume are my general interests in topics of psychology and philosophy and applying them in the modern world. For this I've mainly listened to Bret Weinstein and Heather Heyings podcast, Jordan Petersons podcast and free lecture material, and also Joe Rogans podcast when he has an interesting guest. Do you have any recommendations for similar content?
@rhalfik Жыл бұрын
that guy really will do anything to avoid saying 'neoliberalism'. He'll call it wokeism or anything else, but yeah, it's just neoliberalism, folks. Left on the surface, right at the core.
@Megaritz Жыл бұрын
I am somewhat familiar with Kathleen Stock's work, having read about half of her book "Material Girls," some of her blog posts, and a lot of her Twitter activity. It is clear that many of her views are anti-trans and unreasonable. For instance, she believes in the pseudoscientific two-type taxonomy theory of trans womanhood, "homosexual transsexuality" and "autogynephilia" as construed by Ray Blanchard. She also has insisted that opening women's spaces to trans women will lead to trans women and/or non-trans men pretending to be trans women to assault non-trans women. This notion has been widely debunked on empirical grounds, in a wide variety of contexts. Much of Stock's positions consist in sheer bigotry and idiocy. I do think, however, a few of her thoughts on the ontology of sex and gender are legitimate contributions. I do not think skepticism about transgender identities per se is bigotry, since the metaphysics and linguistics of the issue are legitimately controversial. I also think some of the protests against Stock's presentations are stupid, including the protest against her at the Aristotle Society a few years ago. Stock's politics, however, are terrible. A lot of otherwise reasonable people, both in the UK and in the philosophy profession, have been fooled into giving her ideas far more credit than is deserved.
@liambishop988811 ай бұрын
It's unfortunate that in the UK a lot of anti-trans activism has a veneer liberal or even feminist sentiment that seems to fool a lot of people.
@mungiuri Жыл бұрын
I honestly have great difficulty understand what people mean when they say "wokeism". I am not from US or UK and from where I am from this is quite strange. I would really appreciate a video about the definition of the issue and honestly wokeism just sounds like a terrible word.
@OGAshton Жыл бұрын
The right and left use it differently so people often have conflicting definitions
@benwinch5338 Жыл бұрын
Hi Vlad, I only just watched a video the other day in which you strongly cautioned experts to “stay in their lanes” and yet here you are professing to an expertise in transgender politics. To anyone familiar with the dog whistles it’s ridiculous to take at face value Shahrar Ali’s assertions that he too is pro-trans rights. I'm also confused by your assertion that this issue is somehow unimportant because it directly involves a tiny segment of the population. Whatever happened to "Nobody is free unless everybody is free"?
@VladVexler Жыл бұрын
I will be speaking about this in detail. This is my expertise - identity politics in contemporary democracies. The best book on this is Mark Lilla’s Once and Future Liberal.
@benwinch5338 Жыл бұрын
I’ll look forward to that, but an expertise in identity politics is not the same as an understanding of the issues facing trans people.
@VladVexler Жыл бұрын
Something is wrong with your comment. It’s closed. It’s the opposite of what I ask here on the channel. I will be discussing this in the context of hyper ID politics. Trans rights discourse today often takes forms that are destructive and unsustainable. Worse, these destructive elements are either not challenged, or transphobically attacked by the anti-woke right - people who don’t acknowledge that trans people are real, that their rights are real, that their experience is extraordinarily challenging, and that society has to meet them with inclusion.
@benwinch5338 Жыл бұрын
Disappointing.
@alst4817 Жыл бұрын
Really great Vlad, it’s very rare to find a good discussion on KZfaq, and I have been binging your videos for the past two days and have never been disappointed! Well done!
@dustind46942 жыл бұрын
I don't always agree with you, but I do always enjoy the perspective. In this case I believe there is consensus to be had. It's a bit like the old 'ends justifying means' chestnut. There are no ends that can be separated from means, and no means that can be separated from ends, within the human sphere, and there will not be any limit to ends and means intertwining any time soon (whether in simple linear decision making or complex interplays of cause and effect). Likewise, no person is an island and societal pressures exist, but no society is without many, many individual decisions every day (within various frameworks, and situations, where individual agency and motivation is very important). As a leftist, it is very important to thinking clearly to realize that Marx and Engels provided fascinating and useful tools for analysis, but that their ultimate goal was rooted in an ideal that carries certain assumptions, both those inherent to the persons making them and inherited from the era and culture, which had unforeseen and in some cases dangerous consequences being carried forward. Likewise with 'wokeism': the project of pursuing human dignity *must* reference the material and the possible, *must* meet people where they are and ask only what it can of them. Assuming some grand enlightenment is just over the next rise, or that a perfect state (in the sense of a conflict-free environment or utopia) can exist (or indeed, that it should *as we imagine it*) can only paint us into a corner over time.
@d0lvl02 жыл бұрын
Mr. Vexler, I would like to point out one problem that deeply annoys me when it comes to discussions around "wokeness", which includes your videos. The problem fundamentally lies in that it is not a well-defined term. When people use it as a pejorative, they can mean an enormous number of different things. For example, just today I was recommended an article titled: "When wokeness comes to Middle-earth: Why some say diverse casting ruins the new 'Lord of the Rings' series". Is hiring non-white actors for a fantasy world an example of "wokeness"? This is pure insanity. Fundamentally, if the people who are using the term "wokeness" as a pejorative refuse to define it, I think we can rightfully disregard their opinions. Please, if you're going to make an argument against something, DEFINE it.
@uuuuNB Жыл бұрын
Thank you for saying this, I find this whole wokeness thing stupid as hell from the very first time I heard of it, and I can't define it because it's being used in wide array of issues (and non issues). It's clear there most certainly are some issues with peoples voices being unjustly depressed, like the examples in this video. But the right wing has unfortunately also highjacked that phenomenon to include racists and all kinds of bigots feeling uncomfortable that society shuns their atrocious world views - that the 'cancel culture' they experience is literal fascism, even though it's basically just the fact that companies and people generally don't want to associate with bigots and fascists. "Wokeness" to the right also includes all kinds of social issues that to me really shouldn't be an issue if you're a non bigoted person with common sense, without having looked into it myself your LOTR comment sounds like a good example of this. I really hate the culture war that's been going on, I can't wrap my head around why people just can't live and let live. The right wing should really stop caring so much about what other people like to wear or what they like to do in their bedroom, for christ sake it doesn't fucking affect them at all. I just don't understand why it's such a huge issue for them, and I guarantee if they weren't being told to be angry about this and that by the right wing propaganda pieces like Fox Entertainment they wouldn't see all this as such a huge problem. At the same time the left wing should really start recognizing that there most certainly _are_ problems and clashes that needs to be looked at and handled in a rational respectful way, and that in itself is not racism or bigotry or what have you. Both political wings create problems where there are none and generalizes too much. I'm left leaning and I despise the far right wing (that in reality doesn't seem so _far_ right in certain countries) as I see them as one of if not the biggest threat to democracy, equality and stability in the world, but I also sincerely dislike the left leaning people who hurts the cause and people more because they either take things too far or blatantly denies reality because there are certain conflicts and problems that might hurt the cause or partly breaks their world view. So when the problems persists or escalates, guess where the frustrated citizens who experience these problems will go then? That's right towards the loud mouthed right wing populists who (rightfully) points out the incompetent or even malicious non-acts of the left, and who makes big claims _they_ alone can make the country great again.
@gillsejusbates6938 Жыл бұрын
In brief, “woke” means having awakened to having a particular type of “critical consciousness,” as these are understood within Critical Social Justice. To first approximation, being woke means viewing society through various critical lenses, as defined by various critical theories bent in service of an ideology most people currently call “Social Justice.” That is, being woke means having taken on the worldview of Critical Social Justice, which sees the world only in terms of unjust power dynamics and the need to dismantle problematic systems. That is, it means having adopted Theory and the worldview it conceptualizes. Under “wokeness,” this awakened consciousness is set particularly with regard to issues of identity, like race, sex, gender, sexuality, and others. The terminology derives from the idea of having been awakened (or, “woke up”) to an awareness of the allegedly systemic nature of racism, sexism, and other oppressive power dynamics and the true nature of privilege, domination, and marginalization in society and understanding the role in dominant discourses in producing and maintaining these structural forces. Furthermore, being woke carries the imperative to become a social activist with regard to these issues and problems, again, on the terms set by Critical Social Justice. This-especially for white people-is to include a lifelong commitment to an ongoing process of self-reflection, self-criticism, and (progressive) social activism in the name of Theory and Social Justice (see also, antiracism). Historically, the term “woke” has been used somewhat extensively in slang throughout the twentieth century to refer to a state of awareness of the discrimination, disenfranchisement, and mistreatment of blacks, especially in America, and it is in that sense always had some connection to the critical mode of thought in the New Left. (See also, black liberation, liberation theology, false consciousness, and consciousness raising.) The term is alleged to have gained its first contemporary connotation in 2008 with the Erykah Badu song “Master Teacher,” in which Badu envisions and dreams of a world of racial equality and then advises genuine activism with the admonishment that listeners should “stay woke.” The term developed from there, particularly via black activism on Twitter. The term then gained particular significance and tied itself to the contemporary Social Justice movement in the mid 2010s as it became an activist watchword of the Black Lives Matter movement. There, say following the police shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson, Missouri, the phrase “stay woke” took on the very specific meaning of being aware of the reality (according to critical race Theory) of systemic racism in American society that activists blamed for being at the root of the incident. This has, in turn, led to the term being nearly synonymous with having a critical consciousness as provided through critical race Theory, although it has been appropriated through intersectional thought to apply to other issues of identity relevant to postcolonial Theory, queer Theory, feminism, and so on. It has since expanded and memefied further and is now seen from the outside as being wholly synonymous with having been converted to a Social Justice critical consciousness. As such, “wokeness” often refers to both critical Social Justice doctrine and the state of having accepted it. In that “wokeness” has become a term directly associated with the critical consciousness provided by applied postmodern Theories, especially critical race Theory (see also, postmodern, Marxian, Neo-Marxism, Post-Marxism, and Cultural Marxism). As such, it is centrally concerned with being aware of the intersecting systems of racism, sexism, and other forms of alleged societal oppression and analyzing these in terms of privilege. This is most often done, under woke consciousness, by engaging in discourse analysis, especially using close reading, which enables racism (or other systemic bigotries) that are assumed to be present in all situations to then be read into them. This is then treated as proof of the systemic problem that was assumed to exist in the first place (see also, mask). Being “woke” would entail being able to “see” the intersecting web of dominance and oppression that arises from the function of privilege in society and taking up efforts to challenge, disrupt, subvert, deconstruct, or overthrow the existing system in the attempt to bring those unjust intersecting power dynamics to an end (see also, Matrix of Domination).
@mungiuri Жыл бұрын
I also have this problem with the definition. And even if somebody who talks about being woke defines the term, the problem remains that therr is no generally accepted definition. I mean, I was told I am (not woke, because in my country this is not a widely used term .... but I was called politically correct - another term that can mean anything) politicaly corect because I say that vaccines work. 🤔
@mungiuri Жыл бұрын
@@gillsejusbates6938 so if one, like me, never even heard of such theories ( I have a feeling it's an American thing) can not be woke?
@sissyroxx Жыл бұрын
So now I must ask, why are Republicans holding "The Great Awakening" rallies all across America if wokeness is abhorrent to them? It's totally confusing to me.
@strathound Жыл бұрын
Woke just means caring, in a nutshell. And yes, there's a war on caring and being decent human beings.
@OGAshton Жыл бұрын
Yeah thats why I prefer Then & Now. Centrists take 'wokeism' to the furthest possible extent and prophesize a future with no diversity of thought. Like why is that anyone's takeaway from just being aware of social issues or using someone's preferred pronouns? I think it would be helpful if they better defined what being "woke" is
@strathound Жыл бұрын
@@OGAshton - definitions don't actually matter anymore. Nor does truth. The right wing propaganda machine knows that "woke" is a trigger word for the angry white racists in our country. All they had to do was buy enough tv time, and all the mouth breathers would believe it means whatever they say it means.
@mysticonthehill Жыл бұрын
I think this kind of shows were the problem might lie. Wokeism doesn't connotate caring to me, but selfishness. Wokeness is a superficial level of caring that doesn't understand the problems from within them but from a privileged position. It demands a language not from the people who's causes it adopts but to appease people who want to feel better (more moral) while remaining remote, uninformed and subverting movements to service ones ego. Which is how in Vlad's example they are able to dismiss women's concerns because it is not about solidarity or identifying with but perceived moral superiority. If it were about caring it would no spend so much effort trivializing the suffering and avoiding understanding the trauma of so many parts of society or creating special languages of hierarchy.
@strathound Жыл бұрын
@@mysticonthehill - And yet you describe what it connotates to YOU. So again, the frame of reference is yourself. No mention of the origins of the word and the community it evolved from. No comment on the perspective of the black community who came up with the term. Just ... this is what it connotates to me. You might as well say "Fox News and the Aristocracy have paid billions of dollars in air time to change the meaning of this term to mean 'anything Democractic' and I that's not my team, so I think it's bad." Moral superiority? If being a good person and caring about others is morally superior, then so be it. I call it being human.
@johannesjoseph8232 жыл бұрын
I don't think this was a well thought video. I would suggest first to define wokeism rather than rumbling around the concept. Even a bad definition could bring more light that a shadowy concept
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
There is more a definition in a video called Is Wokeism Marxist? Agree this is a very poor video (except for the views expressed).
@williamfrost35543 жыл бұрын
I enjoy your uploads. They are relaxing. I would even go a bit further and say that theoretical and political anthropology might be an avenue worth looking into. Something that interests me is all of this seems to be hinting at religious processes (could be social and biological), but there is a "collective murkiness" to toward such processes as separate from religion. E.G. Borrowing from theoretical anthropology (V. Turner's "Structure-anti-structure, again) Group kneeling is a liminal expression within a structure, but it is a process not a religion. I am careful not to use liminoid because I believe protesting is a part of formal-civil-ritual culture. I feel this can cause some confusion. I am aware that none of this is definitive, I suppose I find such theoretical tools more useful for me to make sense of things. At any rate, I am looking forward to learning more about music, it seems that I am missing out on a significant space within human thought and culture.
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
Thank you very much these thoughts and suggestions. I was thinking to tackle taking the knee in a future video - a video that would need a lot of sensitivity. Appreciate your curiosity about music - the next upload in a couple of days will be on an extremely rare young pianist who is still a child. Take good care!
@dontyoufuckinguwume82013 жыл бұрын
I am not convinced about the scope of the problem that is depoliticizing force of wokism. Your example was exelent and is very concerning indeed. But I can't think of any other examples such as this one. I am not seeing a trend here. The closest thing I can think of is the 'Left is eating itself' which the left is notorious for, leftists and progressives even meme about it.
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for sharing your view, I appreciate it.
@dontyoufuckinguwume82013 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler maybe you could expand on this a bit more? Do a seprate video on why you see it as such a big threat, give more examples to paint some sort of a trend?
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
@@dontyoufuckinguwume8201 I plan to. There are a couple of videos on the channel that add to the argument here, but no overall comprehensive presentation yet.
@kattekongen2 жыл бұрын
I really enjoy following your channel Vlad! Keep making great content!
@MathieuDeVinois Жыл бұрын
You finished some thoughts I have and asked if I myself am wrong guided in my ideas. You also added more context to it I now can think about. As you wrote under the comment “anti woke is not about right or left” and that woke is not about politics but at the same time identity politics is filling a void. … I think that was very thought provoking and interesting. Placing that topic away from politics opens a new view. One I can feel more calm discussing it as it opens more ways of argumentation not being in constant danger of a political finger pointing and judging…. I would love to hear more about that.
@crawkn2 жыл бұрын
Perhaps your analysis was too nuanced for me to follow fully, but it seems as if you are saying that because wokeism (unfortunately named in my opinion) is a social and not an establishment political movement, with little faith in the ineffectual politics of those currently in power, that it has no potential to contribute to establishment politics. But when have the powerful older generation of the establishment ever given up power to the "radical" youth, as they see them? It has always been the case that the stubborn old politicians have to die, or be booted from their roosts when the young eventually learn how to vote. They never sacrifice power willingly, or make it easy for dissidents to oust them. So dissidents find other means, as they always must.
@SarahMaywalt Жыл бұрын
You spend a lot of time talking about trans rights in association with "wokeness" but not about other identity politics. I'm trans. I understand that I am not a member of a huge voting block or a large portion of society, but I'm tired of the struggle for my rights being used as the quintessential examples of "wokeness" overreach. The issue with "wokeness" is not what fight the "woke" take. It is how they fight it. If you keep grabbing examples involving trans rights to the exclusion of other examples, it associates the fight for trans rights with "wokeness," full stop. That isn't fair.
@georgeleddy4832 жыл бұрын
I've been following discussions in Jacobin on this subject and appreciate this contribution in this debate. In my (academic) circles this needs to be examined. My colleagues (all self professed left) call me reactionary or ("class reductionist") when I balk openly at the nomenclature that dominates our discussions from the silly (and racist) use of "Latinx" to Butlerian re-definition of what people are. Wokism is so easy, so unassailably virtuous, so devoid of conflict, and comforting to the rent seeking professionals who want to be "vice chancellor for equity, diversity, and inclusion." at six figures. The left is allowing the "professional managerial class" that rules the academy to impose this new expectation on what we call left or progressive. In the meantime we lose the working class and its material experience of late capital.
@kimmcdonagh67562 жыл бұрын
Wut? "Wokeism" is simply viewing others with empathy. Even classes of people previously deemed to be unworthy of consideration . That's it. I have a working class job & I have worked in professional white collar jobs. Working class jobs need more "wokeism" or rather a realization that the assumptions and generalizations people have been taught to assume....benefit no one....not the person perpetrating injustice, not the person receiving it, and not the company in which it is happening . Why does working class need " wokeism" or rather empathy towards all classes of people(not just white males) MORE than professional classes (which still suffer from discrimination) is because working class people are significantly less intelligent. With intelligence comes the ability to see nuance and a decreased need to jump to overgeneralizations to effectively their lives. Seems like you are really overthinking this so as to avoid the real problem/ solution.
@mysticonthehill Жыл бұрын
@@kimmcdonagh6756 What you describe isn't wokeism and it would be wonderful if it was about empathy, understanding and solidarity. But it isn't, it is about maintain their privilege while appearing moral. To hijack the language of solidarity while trivializing the actual participants and not intimately learning their struggles, acknowledging their voices but commandeering the public space, gate keeping who's concerns are virtuous and reinterpreting things in away to claim to be any ally without personal cost.
@jeffbetts94202 жыл бұрын
Are the rights of the individual more important than the rights of society as a whole? At what point does the freedom of the individual impinge on the rights of others? Does an individual have a moral right to refuse a covid vaccination knowing if everybody did likewise would cause the unecessary deaths of many? Should the individual be more concerned about his own welfare/rights or the welfare/rights of all the Individuals in society? We know the practical answer to that question but should that influence our political bias?
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Thank you. I’ve screen shot your comments and will share a perspective - probably on video on the Vlad Vexler Clips channel.
@tomonabudget Жыл бұрын
I feel that a lot of this is following along the lines what Stephen Fry said on "Political Correctness Gone Mad". Given current developments, I would love to contribute more. The trend towards dictators is real, very dangerous and terrifying. You don't need to look any further than what damage Trump did. The Monty Python sketches on "people's front of Judea" come to mind. Rather than addressing the real threats, a lot of "left" leaning parties haven't gotten bogged down in debates to an extent that have become hostile to anyone that doesn't 100% follow all of their ideologies. The terrifying part is that the "right" have been more welcoming than the groups which are extremely vocal about "inclusivity". You just need to look at "scandals" surrounding: * Stephen Fry * Jordan Shanks / Friendly Jordies (Australia) * John Cleese All 3 people that actively fight for democracy, but are heavily criticized over their critical stance on PC and woke-ism.
@quentinmyself2 жыл бұрын
Thanks a lot for bringing this issue; I was starting to think I was the crazy one here. When I wanted to talk about this to friends from the other isle of the political spectrum, I was constantly being told this was a micro issue/non issue exagerated by the (far)right to avoid the REAL problems... Oh and I was also called a racist, a nazi, a woman hater, a trans hater...
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Yes this is in no way a right wing take and I deeply believe is structural disadvantage and systemic racism. I don’t regard the crisis of wokeism as a left thing. I regard it as a kind of hyper liberal hysteria. A kind of hyper active liberalism in reverse. But it’s not just an excess- it is a serious threat to democracy. Though perhaps not the main one.
@stevecariggillio41392 жыл бұрын
I voted democrat my whole life, until this woke social justice crap came around. I doubt I'll vote Democrat ever again.
@AK-jm1sc2 жыл бұрын
@@stevecariggillio4139 Bad news, the Republicans are even worse. They practice reactionary "anti-wokism" which is really just being "woke" in their own way, but catering to different groups. They aren't better, they are worse. Their reactionary based politics is also extremely dangerous to democracy. There needs to be more parties and more options.
@stevecariggillio41392 жыл бұрын
@@AK-jm1sc I disagree.
@kid5Media Жыл бұрын
@@stevecariggillio4139 So you're going to vote Republican? Please explain.
@MichaelMarko2 жыл бұрын
About the style of this video: I enjoyed this and found it interesting.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Thank you! I do look forward to discussing these issues again, in a smoother and more organised manner!
@tunneloflight2 жыл бұрын
I deeply appreciate the majority of your observations. On this I believe you make some serious mistakes. First, you have fallen I believe into the wrong belief that the political spectrum is one dimensional - left vs. right - and that everyone fits on that. This is entirely untrue. And as a mistake it has its origin in the two-party dominant framework. It is fundamentally a tribalist view of the world. In truth, peoples beliefs align on a dozen or more major parameters. Each can be viewed as a separate dimension. Second, you have fallen for the "right" wings' labeling of things. "Woke"ism is a label created from certain folks in various tribal groups that might under your terms be defined as being on the right. You also seem to believe that there is some sort of chain of events. That being "woke" leads to xyz. It doesn't. As it happens, people who the so-called 'right' might consider as being "woke" tend toward believing a common set of principles are important. And those in turn are largely not beliefs but are recognitions of physical or social realities. Seeing that racism is what it is - a scourge on humanity is not a religious statement, nor a belief system. It is a recognition that it is a fundamental wrong. The principle belief involved in being "woke" is that racism is real and wrong. That is self evident. Climate change and the catastrophic series of events that are beginning and that are now baked into the system. We might be able to ameliorate some effects or to delay them. The impacts of the releases we have already made destine us to a truly catastrophic future. It is clear from the real data (the up to date data) that we long ago committed ourselves to a catastrophic future. We are already deep into the so-called sixth great extinction event. We need to do everything we physically can to end fossil fuel emissions as fast as we possibly can. I do not mean as fast as we politically can. I mean literally as fast as we physically can. Failure to do that likely dooms us to a change in the fundamental structure of how the atmosphere operates and sends us into a single cell circulation system that destroys the very possibility of agriculture. That returns us to a time over 35 million years ago where the Earth had an "equable" climate system. That is wholly unlike anything mankind has ever experienced. There is no linkage between these two ideas. One has to do with basic fundamental human rights. The other has to do with basic physics and how the earth's climate works. But both and many related ideas all tend to be accepted by groups on the so-called "left", and to be entirely rejected by folks on the so-called "right". The arguments you make about power are baseless as far as the "left" is concerned. They are very much central to the principles behind the authoritarian approaches on the so-called right. In reality though left-right is meaningless. The central issue is the rise of authoritarians that care not at all about reality, or truth, or justice, but instead are focused on power, control, and money, and in disregard of reality. This will destroy us all. And monied interests that care not in the least about the future play a central role.
@nicolejrei Жыл бұрын
This video is super interesting. As an external spectator to some of the more identitarian discussions in both the UK and US to my own identities (transgender and womanhood), I have a deep desire for radical justice from the history of how these minorities have been treated. But seeing how the world has formed lately with how our left-wing movements cannot tackle these issues with acute radical policies (some could say they are antagonistic to our modern economic and electoral systems), we do have to have discussions where priorities must be taken systemically, few-by-few, instead of this anti-intersectional approach where individual daily op-eds in political circles are corrosive to other groups immediately against our broader values of democracy, a certain value of the individual against the collective and etc. I do worry about how this more lax take on other pro-democratic groups could also be taken advantage of like the ratchet effect towards the social right we still see in less identity focused democracies, anyway.
@natewikman2 жыл бұрын
Where did you get the 10% number from at the end? Is it from a sociological study on British/American beliefs or something, or are you guesstamating?
@psychomd1939 Жыл бұрын
Woke is used in so manyways, often contradictory, that is meaningless and used primarily by trolls. I just remember that they are promoting being asleep as their preferable mode. They are welcome to it. Just ignore anyone that uses the word.
@TimothiusBelmont2 жыл бұрын
I don't know if you'll read this, but the very idea that collectivism is anti-individualist is ridiculous. Collectivism is recognizing that we have common interests shared with our communities, co-workers, class, etc. It is not a rejection of the idea that individual people can do great things. This pervasive idea that collectivism is a polar opposite to individualism is used as a tactic to keep people from coming together to promote their common interests. AS A GROUP OF INDIVIDIUALS, sharing a purpose.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
There is a conflict between values such as liberty, equality and solidarity. There is conflict within each of these values too. We need to see how we can have as much of each relevant conception of each value as we can.
@mathyys3 жыл бұрын
My big take on that matter is pretty simple: wokeism/identity politics has become central in left/liberal debates because ANY other *hot topic* is 100% out of the table of institutional politics (= parties, media). Thus leftwing (or rightwing in a way) identity politics and wokeism (or anti-wokeism) are just, very simply, ***institutional escapisms***. Those out-of-the-table hot topics are: i) Crisis of fictitious capital and growth: change of financial/monetary system, future of property on debt and means of production, ii) towards truly democratic decision procedures on (really) key, big issues, iii) modification of production by big companies, and energy and land consumption by middle/upper western class, to **really** solve the climate+biodiversity crisis. [i) = Kism, ii)=procedural democracy, iii)=Ecology]. i), ii), iii) are in such a *deadlock* and acting at such a *global scale* today that tackling them seriously is impossible within a reformist, or at least explicit, step by step credible agenda. They would require MASSIVE and VERY COMPLEX global shifts of the power structure (especially of the top 10% upper wealth/power class). Ergo no plausible, serious, institutionally manageable, issue can emerge. This is **not** an elite conspiracy; of course elites would like to change it in their own interest, and they are not gonna ask people on You Yube for their opinion, but immo there are so many contradictions that it's just TOO BIG TO MANAGE, at least within our current institutional order. So I agree with you that wokeism = depoliticization, but I would rather say it's a consequence, not a cause. And a consequence of a task that is too hard to consider. Same remark for your points on *western democratic decline*: it's a consequence of the above.
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
Thanks for you schematic but systematic presentation. I appreciate it. I won't critique it, because you have laid it out so clearly. And because, this is very much an ongoing conversation. I will be exploring soon some mechanisms of transcending hyper identity politics in the climate movement.
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
Also - if your comment is not showing properly, that's YT and not me. I've approved you on this channel so that your comments never get filtered for review, but somehow when I click TOP COMMENTS, your comment doesn't show up. But it does show under NEWEST COMMENTS. Weird.
@mathyys3 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler TX. It's fine here, maybe a very minor update bug.
@billking8843 Жыл бұрын
The more spontaneous style is great to use some of the time. We often nail stuff better when being spontaneous than if we are trying to get the expression just right.
@redriver15 Жыл бұрын
Very new to this channel but so far enjoying every aspect of it. I just wanted to highlight however that as much as I agree that cancelling a word is not OK, encouraging people to not use lightly such blanket word as wokism is probably a good practice. It's in my humble opinion a shortcut that too many people, politicians and ideologues use to avoid arguing on facts. And similarly to word such as racism, antisemitism or fascism, it ends up being overused and targeted to cancel a person or an idea based on a set of preconceived ideas we ascribe to this term. You yourself decried the overuse of fascism as a term.
@RDHamel2 жыл бұрын
Wokeism is a fascinatingly elusive concept. I hear of it from three sources: radio phone-ins, telegraph editors current and retired, and academia. I find it embarrassing in the mouths of grown men. It always sounds like old people moaning that music doesn't have a tune these days. But with added spite. Academics are concerned with it, I think chiefly, because there is a constant dialectic between identity, intellectual constructs, and norms, and that will happen, mostly in the arena designed for that, which is the university. Where radio phone-in participants get it from I have no idea. It may be in papers I don't read, or Facebook. All of which means nothing, because it really isn't a meaningful term. To the old men it means the left has robbed the country of moral fibre. To the phone-in artist it means - why can't I hit children any more. It may have a more precise definition inside academia, but it still just sounds like a catch-all pejorative.
@lawsonconnell Жыл бұрын
Question: Should the republicans gain power in 2024 and the policy of America first, there is a potential that the USA will reduce funding for the Ukraine conflict and even withdraw from NATO or decrease its participation. What are your views regarding this ?
@VladVexler Жыл бұрын
The Kremlin currently may prefer Desantis strategically and Trump tactically - for disruption rather than a policy line.
@kaykay15702 жыл бұрын
So tell me, what are these MASSIVE problems with cis and trans women?????? Go on tell me
@aiyadwolf Жыл бұрын
“Cis” is a made up term to placate trans invisibility. “Woke” is nothing more than extremism and tries to redefine the sexes. People don’t have any desire to be redefined. Real women have a right to safe spaces like showers, bathrooms, shelters, even prisons. Trans women can make their own spaces without taking rights away from real women. If you can’t see that real women and girls sharing spaces with biological men is harmful to their well being, I suggest you use some critical thinking.
@joan38912 жыл бұрын
Enjoyed listening to you!
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Thank you so much! I hope you are well.
@igor-yp1xv Жыл бұрын
I think this video is as apolitical as the ones it comments on, because there's absolutely no discussion of the actual politization of many topics that "identity politics" brings about (whatever that means because the term is commonly abused and it isn't defined in here). There's no substantial discussion of the points that "wokeism" makes, it's relegated to a fringe discussion that shouldn't matter. Superficial take.
@jimbodimbo9812 жыл бұрын
I like how Vlad makes the odd wink, and facial expression to make his point or to suggest to the viewer to consider this point a bit more closely.
@oriondelwaterman31242 жыл бұрын
You make a lot of claims about people's opinions without backing it up with studies/polls/etc. I think you have valuable things to say but you have to got to back it up with actual research
@gunnarmuhlmann2 жыл бұрын
100 agree!
@overtonwindowshopper3 жыл бұрын
Great analysis! I completely agree with your read on Then & Now’s video. Well done :)
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
So you don’t like Peterson, but you also didn’t like Then and Now’s video?
@damiangrouse45642 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler Would you explore the possibility and or probability that wokism is a human hack perpetrated by CCP and Russian intelligence services.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
@@damiangrouse4564 it’s not! It’s western societies losing their mind!
@damiangrouse45642 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler I know my limitations but, here goes: No doubt societies can loose their mind (those that have one to loose)…October revolution, Germany in the thirties come to mind. But, I don’t discount the effects of china’s co-opting of our entertainment industries, the introduction of Confucius centers in educational institutions and massive introduction of fentanyl into the drug culture. Just to name a few.
@robertbrennan22682 жыл бұрын
Many thanks Vlad. Interesting...
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Thank you as always!
@joseheredia9002 жыл бұрын
I would need a whole day to respond to so many issues this video raises. I won’t do that, but this I’ll say: In your video, the way you approach the issue, the problems you have with it, and the very same manner in which you talk about it (including your voice tones and your gestures) say so much more about yourself than they say about this important topic.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
I hope it does say a lot about me!
@joseheredia9002 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler It certainly does. White male self centeredness never helped Philosophy. Wokeism can be criticized, but by your video you seem disgusted that gender and race issues have a place in the public sphere.
@konstantingeorgiev7668 Жыл бұрын
Why are you certain that this decline is irreversible?
@paulpettinger88582 жыл бұрын
Agreeing you with on many things but can’t here. In the main, woke people are not identity sectarians but committed cultural liberals. Presenting us as helping boost the authoritarian & fascistic right, and thus undermining western democracy, is a reworking of an old and essentially conservative argument which frames us as a threat to the stability of society. We have had versions of this critique levelled against us for centuries, when in fact over this time we have helped lead massive attitudinal change in support of better respecting various minority groups. We are part of a long tradition seeking to better uphold individual freedom and have generally been quite good at it.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
That completely misses the phenomenon under discussion.
@paulpettinger88582 жыл бұрын
In what important ways do they differ from earlier generations of cultural liberals? If you’ve discussed this previously and I’ve missed it, then I’ll gladly listen
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
I haven't shared a video on how past social justice politics differs from today's woke hyper identity politics. I am in two minds about this. For now I have been tempted to leave explaining the difference to others. That's because I think the problem is likely to be further back than people simply failing to tell the difference. It would feel like arguing that an elephant is different to a zebra. There is already something wrong with the conversation if you have to make that argument. That's because the difference is not close, it's not subtle. It's vast, and it has permeated institutions including political parties, media institutions, and universities. At least in the US and UK. That rather points to my role being about helping make sense of this, rather than persuading those who can't see it that it's real. But it's a complex world, and there is also much pointing in the opposite direction. Here is one such consideration. A large proportion of the arguments against the toxicity and political harm of hyper-identity-politics has come from (1) the Weinstein brothers, Jordan Peterson etc; that's to say pop intellectuals (2) to a lesser degree from left wing opinion journalism (e.g. Freddie de Boer, Kyle Kulinski) That's to say - very few major intellectuals, intellectuals in the non-Pop sense, have come out strongly on this. One prominent example is Mark Lilla, with his book The Once and Future Liberal. John Gray has come out on it - as a public intellectual. And Michael Ignatieff did a minor talk about it. But it is very limited. Avishai Margalit, Charles Taylor, Alasdair MacIntyre - arguably 3 of the leading philosophers who comment on politics have said very little. This has left the anti-woke argument in the hands of either (1) people who lean right (being anti-woke has nothing to do with being left, right or centre), or (2) Pop figures, or, worst of all, (3) intellectual entrepreneurs who swim about and scheme to ride the waves of public opinion in a quite transactional way. There is an older video where I offer something closer to an historical definition. Here it is with a timestamp, to about minute 7 in that video. But that's it for now. I will certainly be engaging with this deeply going forward on and off KZfaq. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/gquhpbur0rfUnJs.html
@paulpettinger88582 жыл бұрын
Thank you for engaging thoroughly. I have now watched Hans Georg Moeller’s video on wokism and two of your subsequent ones on the topic (Wokeism: Carefree Wandering, and Is Wokeism Marxist?). You are much better read than I but, just so I can establish a bit of credibility in this area, about 20 years ago I did a politics MA in critical theory (one of the wokest degrees then available!). I had wanted to do Geography, but it couldn’t work out. Over the last 30 years I have also been an active Lib Dem and much more recently a Green member, so feel in a good position to comment on liberal and left liberal politics and, due to studying critical theory, have a better appreciation of some of the political undercurrents within academia. Some wokists do hold very silly opinions. The example you cite of someone wanting to overcome disability disadvantage by changing perceptions of disability is terrible. But wokists tend to be young and I think some instances of our foolishness can be explained by naivety, which people tend to grow out of. I am not clearer about why you think wokists are a threat to the west - and perhaps that’s something you will explore another time - but was pleasantly surprised to agree about wokism being essentially an expression of hardcore liberalism (something I consider a compliment, rather than an insult). I had instead expected to hear criticisms of hard left inspired beliefs of some wokists. That said, wokism brings together people inspired by different traditions and there is a subset of hard left wokists. I think it helpful to acknowledge this and note that some criticism of woke people doesn’t apply across the board. As a radical liberal, you may not be surprised to read me try and blame hard left wokists for some of woke’s problems, but I do. For example, I think there is big problem with those wokists who apply a traditional Marxist analysis on class (that someone’s political and ideological consciousness is determined by their class position) to other forms of identity. This ends up with some hard-left wokists placing someone’s identity as core to objectivity and, for example, framing those with a disadvantaged identity as the only ones who can or should comment on their disadvantage. I find this kind of analysis particularly backward given that a central ambition of mainstream wokism is to encourage people to empathise with and be more sensitive to the disadvantage of others, which some hard left wokists appear to infer is near impossible. This outlook also further empowers woke identity sectarians, which is at odds with the woke mainstream who (given that we accept they are mainly liberals) I hope you will agree are non-sectarian. With the benefit of having studied critical theory, I strongly agree with Jordon Peterson when he draws a link between a Marxist view of history and those wokists who view it as a power struggle between those with disadvantaged identities and oppressors. There are analogies with fascistic thought, as you point out, but they have got to where they are through the influence of Marxist and post-Marxist thinking. That said, I consider these wokists to again be part of the hard left sub-set, rather than typifying the liberal woke majority. Class/ socio economic disadvantage is not currently centre stage in the woke agenda, but I think it would be unfair to claim it is absent. Intersectionality is afterall a strong woke theme. And many wokists are economically left wing & define themselves in opposition to market fundamentalism. I have to say I reject any notion of woke cancel culture being inherently engaged in liberticide. In my view, some wokists (again, especially those inspired by hard left thought) can be very censorious and pose a threat to free enquiry, but liberals support free speech, not consequence free speech, and the intolerance of most wokists towards discriminatory attitudes can be justified by Karl Popper’s paradox of tolerance. I used to work for a humanist group before I got ME/CFS. Many wokists are irreligious, but I agree there are post-religious aspects of wokism and especially from liberal Christianity and Judaism (though because of the evangelising more so Christian). Incidentally, I think this short post on the ‘post-protestantism’ of many non-religious young people helps to underline the point - that young progressives still carry liberal religious impulses of forbears: web.archive.org/web/20140920005738/www.patheos.com/blogs/geneveith/2014/08/the-post-protestants/. I fully accept wokism is having a big impact across civil society in the UK and US and, although I don’t think it is exceptional by historic standards, there is clearly a counter-reformation backlash. Us woke people evidently also seem to really piss you off! I do feel like I have skin in the game but am a recent convert to your channel, appreciate your thoughtfulness, and look forward to you exploring this topic in future.
@TheCantoneseInvestor2 жыл бұрын
I don’t know what kind of definition of liberal you’re using, but a lot of the wokesters are anything but liberal, if the tendency towards intolerance of opposite or even slightly different views, displaying a distaste for free speech and advocating for the censorship of unpleasant speech ("hate speech"), as people like Owen Jones have, as well as the fact that plenty of them are expressly anti-liberal or Marxist or both are any indicator. They are a lot more like late 1791 Jacobins than liberals, a semi-coherent coalition of people with diverse and oft-conflicting motives but all united in being fairly authoritarian without necessarily even realizing it. Just as the Jacobins originally stood for changes that are fairly liberal but eventually evolved into an authoritarian monstrosity, wokesters though it may well have partly grew out of American liberalism is now about as "liberal" as the Jacobins from 1791 onwards.
@AlloBruxelles Жыл бұрын
Brilliant !!
@terencewinters2154 Жыл бұрын
This sovereign individual without the connective group and social set is a kind of extreme narcissist. Of course there's a connective between group and individual sets.
@bubb52252 жыл бұрын
“Wokeism.” A “leftist” phenomenon. I come from a major metropolitan area that has a 50 percent Black population. I heard the first rumblings about what is now called “wokeism” in 1968. How Black people & White people should talk to each other. How to show respect & understanding. Then again in the early ‘90s the topic arose with the OJ Simpson trials. I recall getting into a heated discussion standing in line at the drug store, two Black people & two Whites. Debating on OJ’s guilt. Race-based differences of opinion but no hostility. “Wokeism,” which I call common human decency in the way you communicate with others, is a word never used in my area. Because everybody already knows what the deal is and everyone’s cool with it. Been that way for 50 years. Nobody even thinks about it, it’s so ingrained. I will always put quotes around the word, “wokeism” to show how alien it is to me. To me, it’s an everyday thing, no big deal. People are better for it.
@ThePandafriend2 жыл бұрын
That's not what "wokeism" is. Wokeism is giving women more room than men, because they're, women, giving blacks more rights than other "races" (there are no human races), because they're blacks, and giving LGBTQ+ people more rights than non LGBTQ+ people, because they're LGBTQ+. That by itself would be annoying, after all everyone should get equal rights, but the problem comes when stuff gets limited, speech gets censored or people get less opportunities due to their political opinion and might even lose positions. The so called "cancel culture" is a product of "wokeism". It ruins all kinds of entertainment media, leads to segregation, limited freedom of speech, inequality and even death, suffering and more spread of the Wuhan Coronavirus in the United States. My views are mostly left and on some areas right, but due to most left parties supporting woke policies it makes it really hard to vote for them. These woke policies ruin a lot of things and cause a lot of damage.
@archersfriend59002 жыл бұрын
Great video! I agree.
@randalthor1955 Жыл бұрын
Vlad, Have you read the philosophy of Gustavo Bueno(? I dont know how much is translated, but he is one of the best philosophers of late XX and early XXI centuries who built an entire philosophical system. "the happiness delusion" is one I know for sure it's in english. the importance of understanding "institutions" as part of the individual help us to be more precise than opposing individual-colectivity. institutions shape us and are all around (marriage, family, school, state, religion...) there is no such thing as a pure individual. but a delusion of pure individualism. You would need to be born in a desert island alone to be a pure individual. well, I am not good writing, but again, I advice you to have a look a their works (and if you understand spanish you will have access to the whole of his conferences and books). cheers.
@stevemaxwell5559 Жыл бұрын
I didn't like this one (NB. not a dislike) because so much went over my head. Was it directed purely at Social Politics PHD students? I haven't even heard of a single person you mentioned in this piece, never mind such concepts as "Sovereign identity", the meaning of which I can only guess at. A bit like going into a Biochemistry lecture with no understanding of a carbon ring or covalent bonds. I'd go on but doubt you'll read it as this video is months old. I am, generally, a fan of yours.
@aiyadwolf Жыл бұрын
I had to watch it a number of times. Sovereign identity is what Vlad was critiquing.
@danielabatabogdanov8586 Жыл бұрын
the whole trans thing is not a minor issue... its huge. Thats why people care about it. Because its about calling facts facts.. If you can identify as whatever you want and with that get the rights of whatever you identify with we have a huge issue....
@gerhardbraun39122 жыл бұрын
We have in Germany a famous critic of wokeisms , Sahra Wagenknecht, from the left party. However she is in dispute with the other party members From my point of view, the problem of left parties is their lack of justification due to the misconception of communism and socialism which was denied to admit
@eugenohanka Жыл бұрын
WOKE is new-naive-left. Sahra Wagenknecht is the old cadre communist. The infighting belonging to left so naturally as shooting squad, nationalization and famine.
@fragosa2 жыл бұрын
Why are trans rights an issue to women rights and not for men rights?! Isn't it from the start an unbalance discussion?
@aiyadwolf Жыл бұрын
Because men are not threatened by a female. Women’s lives are threatened by men masquerading as women. A “woman’s” shelter should be to provide safety to women only. All women’s spaces need to be for real women and not a man with male packaging pretending to be a woman. Trans women have no place in women’s spaces. Trans women can make their own safe places without infringing on real women’s rights. There’s no reason why real women should be thrown under the bus to placate a man’s desire. Real men are not impacted by the actions of trans men in the same way real women are impacted by trans women.
@spoonsmith95062 жыл бұрын
so is wokeism good or bad?
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Very bad in my view, but being politically awake is good.
@YNomadicCreator2 жыл бұрын
I believe psychology has a larger role to play going forward and it is all about balance. I have been working on a theory that includes this thought, and is outside the norm. How to have new thoughts that do not fall under the wokeism umbrella? To avoid repetition new thoughts must be had, no? Adjusting the framework for better output. I think this is the hope that we all must have otherwise what's the point?
@Nabium2 жыл бұрын
The Sian Berry example was striking. It shows exactly where and what the problem is. The topic was too emotionally charged to be dealt with in a rational manner. Wokeism, cancel culture, and our new values do remind me of how religion used to function. If you think people are being cancelled now, just look back at how it used to be. Lenny Bruce got arrested for the things he said just because they were "indecent". Not too long ago, you couldn't criticize religion or speak in ways that were considered indecent. If you did, you would be a persona non grata. You would be cancelled. To this day we still have traces of this old mindset in America. We see naughty words being censored on their TV shows, we see hysterical outrage among evangelicals towards atheism, multiculturalism, homosexuality and other things they object to. We see topics be too emotionally charged for them to be dealt with in a rational manner. I used to work in a Christian kindergarten, so I have witnessed first hand how this works among Christians. For example you had one or two hardliners who would be very loud and vocal about what they thought about homosexuality and the bible, then you had some who were very liberal on the issue but most were in the middle or didn't care. The ones who were liberal, did not dare to speak up(except to me in private) because the ones on the right would pull the ones in the middle towards them, by acting very emotional and forceful. If one said gays should be able to marry in church, you'd risk throwing fuel on an already raging fire of outrage. In terms of social behaviour, I don't see much of a difference between this and the current cancel culture. It's dogmatic, emotionally charged social oppresion of opinion. This is a part of human nature. The values might change with time, but the behaviour doesn't.
@CraigTalbert3 жыл бұрын
You should do a video on prediction markets.
@VladVexler3 жыл бұрын
Political prediction markets? I am thinking about it. Trump was at 1/10 to win 2024 presidency, last I checked a few weeks ago. . But if his health holds, I think it’s closer to 50/50. These odds express an establishment in denial.
@CraigTalbert3 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler Politics and other things. Agree with your point here on Trump.
@erickmagana353 Жыл бұрын
I'll watch your other videos on "wokeism" but, at least in this one, you could have carefully explained how exactly and why "hyper" progressivism is divorced and in conflict with combating systemic racism becase I personally don't think that statement is fair or accurate, let alone obvious.
@kristjanpeil Жыл бұрын
4:26 so... if you'd put those two together, you might get a... "psychohistorical" explanation, yeah? ;)
@erichbrough60972 жыл бұрын
Much of this discussion is, unfortunately for me, a bit over my head, in that I'm no sense learned on political philosophy (can barely tell Locke from Mills from Disreali 🤷♂️). As best I can understand it (someone please help as you can), wokeism is a 21st century offshoot of political correctness culture, where acceptable language was/is the entire point, world without end, amen. I also get the notion that it's a cult of orthodox rules, mainly applying to how things can be named and discussed. I guess such a cult is meant to erase conflict by sufficient indoctrination on every point of friction so that conflict won't ever arise. Does this match up, is it sensible?
@gemmalee3032 Жыл бұрын
No shared values,fluid ...yes.
@flatcapcaferacer2 жыл бұрын
Professor Groteschere from 1964 Fail-Safe.
@MichaelMarko2 жыл бұрын
If Western democratic society is in decline, as you say, is identity politics, and now micro-identity politics (might I employ the word "exotic" here at some point?) functioning here to fill a vacuum of some kind? Or at least to avoid being more practical?
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
A magnificent question - I will reserve it for the next Q&A on the second Channel Vlad Vexler Clips. There will be a timestamp to your name when the next Q&A drops.
@MichaelMarko2 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler I look forward to it. Thanx!!
@b.questor2 жыл бұрын
A crisis in the advancement of technology.
@Freakarmy2 жыл бұрын
You look like Eminem!
@brianlongshore Жыл бұрын
"Wokeism", "Woke" is a right wing racist term, and should be dropped from all serious conversation, unless it is a critical analysis of racism.
@erickmagana353 Жыл бұрын
My understanding is that the word originally comes from black communities and was subsequently coopted and weaponized by the right to attack progressive movements, so I would agree it is currently a loaded word.
@MichaelMarko2 жыл бұрын
On the Sian Berry issue: The word that leaps to my mind is "petty".
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
The pattern is not petty - it is a political disaster. It deflates the efficacy of political projects caught up in it.
@MichaelMarko2 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler I though the word might be a problem. I should have used "narrow". But I'm not trying to be slippery.
@andreeadobre31902 жыл бұрын
You know what would be interesting, if you can and want to, compare identity politics in today's left with identity politics in pre-1989 Eastern Europe. The glorified working class vs the privileged enemy of the people. To this day my parents' parents can't stand each other. And the "down with the enemy of the people" sentiment is still very much alive after decades, in sneakier ways, just dare rise an inch above mediocrity and watch your peers rally against you. I think the left of today should look long and hard into Eastern Europe history, cause the good intentions already led to hell once. And I don't even know how to talk about such things without getting labelled a right winger, which I'm definitely not. Being critical of your own camp (progressive liberals) doesn't mean you're in the opposite camp.
@megavide0 Жыл бұрын
16:00 //!
@Alex_Plante Жыл бұрын
I'm more into Sleepism...
@jeremybiggs84133 жыл бұрын
Put subtitles on. Read the subtitles and the pay attention to his eyes out of the corner of your own for some incredibly trippy weirdness.
@cas3432 жыл бұрын
I've heard wokism accused of many things but individualistic is not one of them lol.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
That could be because you consume your ideas about what’s wrong with wokeism form JP or James Lyndsey - not from serious critics of how it is harming our politics. Like Mark Lilla, or John Gray.
@cas3432 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler No. Pigeon holing aside actually my main criticism is from the CIA who infiltrated and analyzed the critical theorists in the 1970's onwards and deemed them no threat to American hegemony and in fact beneficial. Now why would the people who assassinated civil rights leaders and started the drug war to disrupt the black community find Woke ideology so compatible with their own goals? Could it be that the common denominator of the fixation on race tends to make social cohesion among normal people impossible? kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ad2AobSYz7m-ZWg.html Makes you wonder.
@starofcctv942 жыл бұрын
First of all I absolutely hate the terms wokeism and identity politics, there has to be a way to discuss this issue without adopting the language of bottom of the barrel right wing twitter grifters. Second quite a few place here where you completely lack nuance. Lumping together a politician resigning due to a trans rights issue and a CIA diversity advert into one phenomenon is disingenuous. The CIA cares as much about diversity as BP cares about a "greener future".
@irvingshekelstein4142 жыл бұрын
There will be a backlash against this wokeness, I’m sure of it, and it’ll be a lot of fun to watch
@AK-jm1sc2 жыл бұрын
How do you envision that blacklash though? I'm concerned that a blacklash will just lead to extremely reactionary and illogical politics that becomes a emotion fueled witch-hunt towards minority groups, POC etc. When one side gets more extreme, so often does the other. That's not a good thing for anybody who is sensible.
@aiyadwolf Жыл бұрын
Woke is exactly what you say you are afraid of: extremely reactionary and illogical political[ly]… and a witch-hunt towards anyone who doesn’t toe their line.
@incognitotorpedo42 Жыл бұрын
There already IS a backlash against wokeness. It's Trumpism.
@CitizenAyellowblue Жыл бұрын
Wokeism is a bizzare manifestation of elitism.
@stephenpeterson75582 жыл бұрын
Wokism TM Made by China
@BubblegumCreepydoll2 жыл бұрын
Hi Vlad, Ya, So woke-ism, like so many other “great ideas” started here in the USA about a decade ago and it instantly spread like wildfire. I think the pivotal moment was when Bret Weinstein was fired from Evergreen College in Washington state, for I don’t remember, refusing to acknowledge something woke, by going to class and teach. Someone captured a bizarre confrontation between him and his angry woke students and it went viral on the internet. Evergreen College has been considered The Most Liberal College in this country probably since it was established. Since then, woke-ism has taken over and nobody really knows what it is. I mean really. I don’t really understand what it is. I just know that people are no longer being able to distinguish between real crimes and a stupid blunders, each is equally harshly punishable. I’ll explain how Woke-ism is from my USA point of view later. It’s like a shiny sticker you now glue on your whatever cause and yo woke! The 🇺🇸 idea of the sovereign individual is basically a religious cult followed by libertarian Bitcoin Bro’s and their Jesus is Elon Musk. They have now lost about 70% of their wealth as of today and so has their messiah Elon Musk who spent 160 billion on that coin, that only usefulness is to invisibly bounce around between digital ledgers in the he holy grail, The Matrix. It was unanimously believed that bitcoin was the gift (from Satoshi 🙄 IDK, the matrix god) to humanity as a scaffold for unlimited and eternal freedom to self sovereignty in some unknown and unidentified future. In that utopia there is no room for governance, let alone serious political discussion. But yesterday I saw Elon Musk tweet about the importance of big walls between countries, so I guess big walls are permitted. (This is really shortsighted of Elon, because probably in about 2-3 years almost all of the parts for his Tesla, if he can keep it alive, will becoming from Mexico, not China.) Right now this utopia seems to be hanging on a dwindling life support. The only entity that seem to understand woke-ism are corporations and advertisers. They seem to be the only ones that benefits from the whole charade or whatever it is, they are ideas (some are even good and noble) not much else right now, as far as I can understand. Otherwise, identity crisis, climate crisis, #metoo and everything else under that umbrella is like a flotsam and jetsam colliding with each other in an ocean where everyone is trying to drown each other, or exercising masochistic self sabotage of some sort. A large slice of the American pie are ignorant fanatics and notorious emotional thinkers. So as a result, now the right and the left borrows ideas and tactics from each other. The right wing incel bro’s borrows the #metoo from the left woke-ism and uses it as a weapon for their martyrdom and surprisingly manages to drag the left woke with them into the swamp with them. A good example was the KZfaq broadcasted spectacle of the defamation trial between Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. As you may know or remember, British Judges sensibly deemed him the fucking wife beater, that he is, but that was not enough for that infantile man and before the trial started, with like a snap of Johnny’s finger (the one he cut in drunken stupor) the libertarian incel bro’s were on his side and maybe 2 days later 98% of the country was on his side and if they would gave it Amber is a witch and deserves to be burned at the stakes. So the sovereign libertarians borrowed the #metoo stuck it on their beloved idol “Jack Sparrow” so he was basically declared innocent by the mob, before the trial started. It’s kinda like the book I told you I read, “Nothing is true and everything is possible” Maybe we are becoming like Russia. The culture here is insane and can’t define itself. What can you really ask of people with a 3 second attention span? 🤦🏻♀️ I hope you let me know if you read this some day. As I understand you like your listeners to engage with you, but I know there are a lot of people leaving comments, that are probably way smarter than I am. So I’m not really expecting that you pay attention to me. Stay well. I love watching you. 🙏
@pontifexinstitute Жыл бұрын
Not really, wokeism as you know it today is not a pure American product, far from it. The theories are from two French philosophers 40 years ago: Jacques Derada and Michel Foucault... Whatever they touched ranging from justice to sexuality was perverted, manipulated, rendered chaotic...
@stevecariggillio41392 жыл бұрын
The left went crazy. I never thought it would happen but I vote republican now.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Wokeism is not left wing. As I point out in another video. It’s a kind of liberalism on steroids.
@stevecariggillio41392 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler semantics.
@AK-jm1sc2 жыл бұрын
The Republicans are even worse. They might not believe strongly in social justice, but they are extremely reactionary and careless about greater consequences. Environmental destruction, climate change, shrinking middle-class, growing levels of poverty etc. things that actually have to power to completely destroy the livelihoods of future generations, and their solution is pretty much "let's keep doing everything exactly like we are, it's fine, let's keep having more tax cuts for the rich, allowing the middle-class to continue towards the trend of poverty, tell everyone that they can just pull themselves up by bootstraps and completely ignore the systematic issues killing the wealth of younger generations, and get rid of protections for the environment so some fat cats can make even bigger bank. I'll take a little lip service to "woke" social issues any day of the week over what the Republicans are offering.
@IsomerSoma2 жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler I think "identitarian left" is pretty much what wokeism describes best and might be the much better term for it.
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
@@IsomerSoma No. it’s not left. As I argue in their videos. For instance: Is wokeism Marxist
@machdaddy64512 жыл бұрын
When I heard that the Disney corporation was embrasing WOKEISM I just magined Walt turning over in his grave and Mickey giving the middle finger to the WOKE community...you know if he had a middle finger.
@cas3432 жыл бұрын
Your argument is that wokism is not political ENOUGH? God almighty.
@Alpine_Nightly Жыл бұрын
Vlad for Dictator of Planet Earth!!
@VladVexler Жыл бұрын
In that case Elon Musk would win over 7 billion people to move to Mars!
@Alpine_Nightly Жыл бұрын
@@VladVexler Okay, in that case, how about Philosopher King? A little less contentious, no?
@thomaskalbfus20052 жыл бұрын
Wokeism is about inserting a gay character into whatever television show or movie, latest is in movie Lightyear.
@tangaz58192 жыл бұрын
And what is complaining about something that doesn’t affect you personally? Making a huge issue about a private enterprise decision that isn’t against the law?
@thomaskalbfus20052 жыл бұрын
@@tangaz5819 yet most of those private enterprises are moving in lockstep with each other, if it was just one movie, that would be one thing, but it's not! Hollywood is corrupt, it is uncompedative and it has been taken over by Wokees! One big exception is West Side Story by Steven Spielberg, I wonder why the Sharks included no black people, they were all white people, that is so unrepresentative of New York City, why is that do you suppose? They were happy to have a black Viking, happy to have one of Robin Hood's merry Men be a black Muslim, but the Sharks from West Side Story are all white!
@irvingshekelstein4142 жыл бұрын
Are we humans to be forever responsible for the welfare of the blacks? At what point will they reach a milestone and be able to stand on their own like any other ethnicity? It would be nice if Africa could start producing things of value for itself so that humanity may instead focus on something else, like space colonization, etc. Anything would be a welcome change, imo, from their constant droning and drivel.
@robgrey61832 жыл бұрын
For 50 years we have had preference for dark skin pigmentation written into our laws: in education, jobs, housing, welfare, everything. During that time hundreds of billions of dollars have been poured into s******es like Detroit and Baltimore. That brings up two questions: -Why aren't they running the country? -If it doesn't work why can't we stop?
@LouigiVerona2 жыл бұрын
I thought it was fairly clear from the context of the video that sovereign individual is the libertarian concept of self-ownership: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-ownership
@VladVexler2 жыл бұрын
Nope. That would be an ethical position and a political position which underdetermines what one thinks about the role of the individual in explanatory terms. I gave the two poles of the explanatory spectrum in the video. HGM need to fit in somewhere on that spectrum. And from the 4 or 5 videos I have watched, it's not fully clear what his position is. I have been professionally initiated in these conversations for a long time, but the videos don't give me a chance to place him. I'm sure his book does do this.