Writing My Own Text Editor

Writing My Own Text Editor | Prime Reacts

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Күн бұрын

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Пікірлер: 164

@TheSulross 11 ай бұрын

programmers eventually can't resist the urge to write their own OS kernel, their own programming language, or their own text editor probably is just how programmers deal with their mid-life crisis

@stevefan8283 11 ай бұрын

what, i'm just 24 i've been doing my own OS kernel and my own C compiler (i used to make my own programming language before). are you implying that I'm already a mid-life crisis facing oji-san now?

@redpillsatori3020 11 ай бұрын

@@stevefan8283🍪

@crimsonbit 11 ай бұрын

Ngl I HAVE been thinking about designing and writing my own programming language with LLVM...

@josephmalham725 11 ай бұрын

Making a text editor was my first ever real project that I did. I built it using PyQt, and I learned a lot about how to code which helped me a lot when I started building more complicated C# programs, but BOY was it shit

@aCrumbled 11 ай бұрын

damnit im already at a mid life crisis at 17 (ive made a language and an editor)

@thegreatbambino3358 11 ай бұрын

I mean it is easier to write your own text editor than configure neovim

@soupnoodles 7 ай бұрын

I concur

@iatheman 5 ай бұрын

It can at least take as long.

@debajyatidey9468 5 ай бұрын

Really? You think so? I was trying to follow a tutorial to Build the kilo text editor in C and couldn't just keep up because of the endless C macros. termios.h almost destroyed me.

@josetobias8084 11 ай бұрын

I mean... from the way he explained everything, and if he's down to make it - with other engineers, as he mentioned... all I can say is: *LET HIM COOK* This is how software evolves, and people like this are the ones that make most difference in our day-to-day jobs - quality tools should never be underestimated. All power to him.

@ea_naseer 11 ай бұрын

The final destiny of a text editor is an email reader.

@TheSulross 11 ай бұрын

so far every attempt to supplant bash and vim I've eventually given up on and gone back - no longer bother to check them out as am already at the promised land

@technocidal 10 ай бұрын

This is happening everywhere! A bunch of Indie Apple Devs are currently writing their own code editors as well 😂 - Runestone - Code Edit - Swift Studio - … It seems like a pattern

@tauiin 11 ай бұрын

Variable width fonts are important for non-ascii text and other unicode features that cant fit inside a perfect rectangular grid of "letters", plain text that is just LTR graphemes does not exist. TUI first also has other issues like imposing one font size for everything and severely limiting you in what you can do with things like popups and other appearance related things.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

Indeed, even if you don't care for writing essays/emails in your text editor, programs who work with BIDI text (e.g. devanagari) or hindi/arabic can have far better shaping and joining support than what would otherwise be available through a TUI (or even neovim guy). In emacs i personally prefer having proportional fonts for comments, but I can understand why it would throw some users off.

@TheSulross 11 ай бұрын

Monotheism => monospace God wrote the universe simulation in a monospace font And clearly vi comes straight fromm the mind of God Don't fall to the devil's snares

@tauiin 11 ай бұрын

@@TheSulrossIf this is the best god can do with vi I dont want to see what a world written in emacs would look like 😉

@mattymerr701 11 ай бұрын

@@tauiin No, it's not that you don't want to, it's that you can't. Do you even understand what the performance issues are like when editing the universe? Takes way longer than 6 days!

@tauiin 11 ай бұрын

@@mattymerr701hahahaha

@gus2603 10 ай бұрын

This is what programming does to your brain, you want to rewrite everything. to make it to your liking, to your image. IT COMPELS YOU TO PLAY GOD!!

@fuzzy-02 10 ай бұрын

I got a few issues here myself. How can I pull request to GOD?

@MsHofmannsJut 6 ай бұрын

spot on

@Ked_gaming 11 ай бұрын

I don't understand the need to do this but I can appreciate the commitment, kudos

@rushyscoper1651 11 ай бұрын

reinventing the wheel is the best way to level up as a dev even senior dev sometimes need that tip.

@Ked_gaming 11 ай бұрын

@@rushyscoper1651 It's more than a side project at this point imo

@0ia 11 ай бұрын

@@rushyscoper1651The wheel gets reinvented all the time for niche uses (sports cars for example), and I prize niche far above generalized equipment.

@rushyscoper1651 11 ай бұрын

@@0ia doesn't matter what reinventing, its something that dev culture need to push so we don't end up with iseven() dependency

@0ia 11 ай бұрын

@@rushyscoper1651 hah, very true, iseven as a dependency is horrid :)

@ryanleemartin7758 11 ай бұрын

The LISP must flow!

@pif5023 10 ай бұрын

“… he is trying to make Neovim into his operating system” Objection your honor! Factious speculation!

@wesleyoliveira6570 11 ай бұрын

Funny thing, the name "Nyoom" is a onomatopoeia for the sound of a very fast object.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

Thats the original inspiration. I used to be a motorsports engineer before settling down and doing embedded, during that time I used to run my personal bike with some self-designed parts and aerokit, which I sold under a brand referred to as "nyoom-engineering" for fun Then I was writing a doom alternative for neovim a few years later, figured "I need something that rhymes with doom and sounds fast, nyoom!"

@Pedro-jj7gp 11 ай бұрын

@@bored2171 Very interesting read, thanks for sharing man! I have an eye on some of your neovim projects and I really like the code quality. I am a subpar programmer, could you recommend some resources & practices that helped you along the way?

@regbot4432 11 ай бұрын

Yeah the brand name is cool! It's so cool, I'm going to actually keep an eye on the project.

@sagasofreddit_ 11 ай бұрын

BLAZINGLY FAAAAAAAAAAST

@Epic501 10 ай бұрын

@@bored2171it's a great name

@Muttisuri 10 ай бұрын

As someone who likes the concept of Emacs but has often ended up fighting lisp instead of enjoying the configuration aspect, I'm kinda interested on this project, if it aims to be a modern replacement / rewrite of emacs I hope it does well.

@rezzor_ 11 ай бұрын

At some point, just open another window

@LaPingvino 10 ай бұрын

Yeah, Lisp changes the way you think about programming for sure. I used to have a paying Common Lisp job. Emacs was basically a compromise when going from Lisp Machines to Unix and C. You have no idea how much people thought Lisp Machines would be the future.

@FDominicus 28 күн бұрын

And I had once even run it on my machine. And it has been grade, but I do not get it running anymore on my modern Linux.

@kagsdev 11 ай бұрын

1 indexing is awesome, it reminds me everytime that I cannot trust zero-or-one-indexes anyway

@NibbleMeTwice 11 ай бұрын

It's only weird to me because of pointer arithmetic.

@ebn__ 11 ай бұрын

Although I use Emacs I do agree with prime boi when it comes his take on vim, that is, GNU/Linux is your environment and vim is its editor. Emacs on the other hand is very different and it is hard for someone coming from vim (or any other text editor) to understand why a lot of people like Emacs simply by "trying it out". You most likely won't "get it" until you have learnt lisp in order to take advantage of the extensibility of Emacs, for while the biggest selling point of vim is its editing capabilities, extensibility is what makes Emacs great as well as the introspectability and interactive development experience that comes with being built on lisp.

@gus2603 10 ай бұрын

Damn I have to learn lisp

@vitluk 11 ай бұрын

Why helix hate tho? It's good, and does pretty much everything i need it to at this point + default keybinds are more sensible imo. Yes, no plugin system (being worked on) and a bit cumbersome to configure the LSPs, but it's one time operation, and you're good, especially if you have your dotfiles backed up (I use NixOS for example, so i dont have to even do much to have the exact same experience on a totally different machine). I also use a multiplexer (Zellij, cuz Rust and floating panes (very useful, can't live without them now)) + broot for fuzzy searching, and it's all I need really, been working like this for about 4-5 months now and can barely use normal IDE's at this point.

@covoeus 11 ай бұрын

He despises that it uses kakoune style bindings (select->action) instead of vim binds (verb->object). I'm personally impartial but the OOTB experience of Helix simply can't be beat.

@vitluk 11 ай бұрын

@@covoeus I haven't gotten that far into vim (cuz bindings were driving me crazy + I personally dislike Lua) so I'm not sure I understand what the difference is. To me as an average consumer, (n)vim just has "more steps" to achieve something in many cases, which I personally don't like.

@gus2603 10 ай бұрын

@@covoeusootb?

@logicaestrex2278 2 ай бұрын

@@vitluk frankly, its not the same. vim and vi are on almost every machine, i can ssh into a server and it doesnt matter if i dont have install permissions, it has what i need. i use vim/vi with nearly no config at all, my .vimrc is less than 30 lines. helix is a bunch of bloated crap i never wanted, that doesnt run in the places i need it to anyway lol.

@genejas 11 ай бұрын

3:15 for a second i thought prime was talking about SPICE, the command line circuit simulator

@paulhuang2030 9 ай бұрын

Haha same

@morganaverynz 11 ай бұрын

Let him cook.

@rickwoods5274 11 ай бұрын

7:00 truly ascend: simplicity _is_ sophistication

@Ryan-in3ot 11 ай бұрын

joe tried this challenge and it went pretty well for him

$@nefrace$

@nefrace 11 ай бұрын

Wasn't that Joe Mama?

@gus2603 10 ай бұрын

@@nefraceBro you are in a programming channel and don't know Joe?

@LARathbone 10 ай бұрын

JOE - Joe's Own Editor

@robmorgan1214 10 ай бұрын

Using a text editor to write a text editor is cheating. Punch cards and dip switches or GTFO!!!

@JayLooney 10 ай бұрын

I saw a chat go by that said "In the absence of history, 1-based indexing is more intuitive." And I presume they're referring only to programming history, because in mathematical history, ever since right around 5,000 years ago all number systems start with zero. And, w.r.t common number systems on computers binary, octal, decimal, and hexadecimal all start with 0, but what else would you choose for binary? 1, 2? I don't think so.

@AM-yk5yd 11 ай бұрын

Mandatory reminder, you wanted to use ed some time ago. (I barely managed to solve AoC2022 day 1 part 1 - managing python indentation from ed was a pain)

@LaPingvino 10 ай бұрын

Python indentation is a pain*

@samarnagar9699 11 ай бұрын

Yes but what editor did he used to write the editor

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

Neovim.

@sord444 11 ай бұрын

Emacs version 25 makes you old?! 😂 (ehem started on version 20 here…)

@joeyhills212 11 ай бұрын

IM STILL READING DUNE STOP SPOILING IT

@nandoflorestan 11 ай бұрын

Portuforrakis dies.

@freesoftwareextremist8119 11 ай бұрын

> "elisp sucks!" > uses fennel

@weakspirit_ 11 ай бұрын

unfortunately, it's true. elisp is just not a good lisp

@freesoftwareextremist8119 11 ай бұрын

@@weakspirit_ It's a better Lisp than fennel.

@samgould8567 10 ай бұрын

If I was as skilled as OP, I would probably try the same thing.

@kumerolier11111 11 ай бұрын

0:33 - After I saw this video from Casey Muratoi - "How fast should an unoptimized terminal run?" and couple others - I will never just believe, that editors are just what they are, and that there is no more juice to be squeezed kzfaq.info/get/bejne/nt59a7Se3sC8pJs.html&ab_channel=MollyRocket

@Qiaoster 11 ай бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/faiPorebu7zLdJc.htmlsi=mrKeCbx1syWAGEy2&t=2433 this is imo a very interesting direction we could take things

@TheSulross 11 ай бұрын

vi and vim still the best, most wholesome, non pasterized juice

@chofmann 11 ай бұрын

I always wonder what the general opinion is on something like MuJS over lua. While I am well aware that lua is really tiny, it feels horrible to write in for me, and I would much prefer using JS for those instances.

@didyoustealmyfood8729 11 ай бұрын

I remember when i wanted to program my own shell.😂😂

@whig01 11 ай бұрын

I uninstalled Neovim and went back to Vim. Neovim was way too powerful with accidentally deleting things as a consequence, and gone it is.

@GreyDeathVaccine 11 ай бұрын

That's why you should do daily backup 🙂

@whig01 11 ай бұрын

@@GreyDeathVaccineNo worries, I didn't lose anything. But I don't like it.

@anasouardini 11 ай бұрын

When is the day that I can switch from VSCode to a modularly preconfigured editor; something in between a bare bones die-hard nvim and a "bloatedly/bloatfully" preconfigured distro/cult. A simple nvim setup + a more powerful version of packer or lazy would make the experience of using nvim super duper cool, even my mom would love using it if the extension managers are fledged enough yet modularly.

@heroe1486 5 ай бұрын

Why do you call nvim distros "cults" ? What is wrong with lazynvim as a plugin manager (especially since you don't want bloat) ? Seems you're the one not really understanding the landscape since all the options are here, namely nvim and "do it yourself", kickstart for a minimal but working config and LazyVim for a modular distro

@captainfordo1 11 ай бұрын

I like Vim’s keybinds and motions, but I do not like Vim/Neovim as a text editor. 4coder seems like a far better option

@fuzzy-02 10 ай бұрын

Behold a programmer reaching the critical state of transcendence. They will either ascend and unlock a new way for everyone else, or they will fall. But even if they do fall. They would still land at a pretty good altitude kekw

@someman7 8 ай бұрын

What is the difference between php and lua? Honest question. I used both (besides many other languages) and I don't understand why one is hated and the other is not

@Silas2-p7c 11 ай бұрын

“This mentat is not a retard, he’s just suffering a Segfault” - CHOAM engineer probably

@windowsrefund 11 ай бұрын

So happy to hear you speak to using tmux to manage context switching between projects. The tmux-sessionist plugin rules. Great stuff.

@PinakiGupta82Appu 11 ай бұрын

I wrote (modified to do what I wanted the code to do) some Lisp back in 2004 since I needed to automate some tasks (finding a basic celluloid film cartridge and paper purchase strategy for my shop) in XMaxima. A plain LPP solver, nothing's extraordinary. The CAS can be extended to do anything imaginable in mathematics via Lisp scripts.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

I still use M-x calc every single day. No RPN/RPL calculator, standalone or otherwise, even barely touches its capabilities, configurability, and scriptability.

@MH_VOID 11 ай бұрын

@@bored2171 I've been looking for a calculator to use for a while. My goto is currently just dc (usually through `calc() { dc

@Kane0123 11 ай бұрын

Is 1 indexing really all that bad? It matches the way we speak/think. I think heads would explode if I asked what the zeroth item on the todo list is.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

1 indexing isn't inherently bad, just like 0 indexing isn't inherently good. I think 1 indexing is more natural for newer users, but it does get quite annoying when you have to implement c/c++/ffi bindings for lua and constantly have to think about 1vs0 indexed lists. I wish it just stuck with 0 indexing.

@ea_naseer 11 ай бұрын

it's one of those things when you master most people can't wrap their heads around the alternative.

@JiggyJones0 11 ай бұрын

It doesn't make sense if you understand how pointers and indexing work.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

lua indices are actually indices, in c it means the item address offset of the array address. Just take advantage of for/ipairs and you don't need to keep track of indices anyways

@sub-harmonik 11 ай бұрын

because number systems are actually based around 0, not 1. for instance if you want to look up into a table with the result of a modulo you always have to add 1 it's super annoying. or even if you have some function in a table, you always have to add 1 after some math operation. e.g. I have a 2048 element table that stores a sine wave, and a phase value that goes from 0 to 1 (exclusive). so after multiplying by the size of the table and doing floor or some other interpolation I have to add 1 before lookup. I love lua but in retrospect trying to combine arrays and hashtables into 1 general data structure was probably a mistake.

@FDominicus 28 күн бұрын

One point from my side. Who really likes shell programming and the shell programming language? But I also want as much support for as less typing as possible. If I just want to write a fast script, of course, I can do that in whatever shell I like, but I really dislike the programming way. Now what alternatives do I have. Yes there is scsh (it uses Scheme, that's a nice and niche programming language, but it hardly supports all the interactive stuff I can have in zsh. Then there is the Python Shell, sorry, forget its name, you can program in Python and that is definitely a + to Shell. Now I just let my imagination run wild, how nice would be kind of shell / UI in Common Lisp, so yes Emacs with Common Lisp as programming language, that would be so great. Or the Smalltalks-gods may forbig a Smalltalk-Shell. Yes, you can use e.g Pharo Smalltalk to do a lot but it's not easy to handle the file system and there is not even one decent Editor. Not one. And so I bet this editor will please him (maybe) but ...

@Microphunktv-jb3kj 11 ай бұрын

if emacs configuration language would not be lisp, i would use it. i dont wanna learn lisp , period I dont mind having mail, irc and other stuff in one place. it just makes sense actually if ur developer and sit hours on end on the computer and in editor, that the editor becomes ur pseudo-OS

@freesoftwareextremist8119 11 ай бұрын

If Emacs didn't use Lisp it would not be Emacs.

@samuelschwager 11 ай бұрын

lisp is helluva drug

@FreddyRangel85 11 ай бұрын

lol what that a Dune reference @2:57? hahaha

@lmnts556 11 ай бұрын

I really like lua, but I also really hate lua for one reason. That it indexes from 1 instead of 0. Why? And it embeds into a bunch of other languages who index from 0, it's just wrong.

@dinckelman 11 ай бұрын

What prime said is basically what it is. You can spin up a "text editor" in like 2 minutes. You won't get a proper editor, or an "IDE" that fast though. Just look at something like nvim vs helix. At the top level, they do basically exactly the same thing, except one grew based on two decades of decisions, and the other one doesn't have any plugin support. This is very similar to Jetbrains' Fleet, which is essentially... useless

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

Thats a bit of a shallow way of looking at helix. Helix has the benefit of seeing where neovim went wrong and what they can do right. Notably, dap support from the start, integrated completion, and most importantly representing the buffer as a rope. Helix runs o(n) complexity throughout as opposed to neovim's o(n^2) at times.

@dinckelman 11 ай бұрын

@@bored2171 You're right, will admit that. I did use it myself for quite a bit, before it was popularized in socials, and I really appreciated what it does out of the box, but it let me wanting more

@anderdrache8504 11 ай бұрын

This just furthers the point that writing your own text editor is a great, fun idea. I tried out helix and I don't really miss anything from neovim which i had to configure much more. Your text editor doesn't need many features, just a solid experience when interacting with code via tree-sitter and lsp and navigation between files. I started writing my own text editor for fun and so far have integrated tree-sitter and some lsp features. I feel like discouraging people from doing that is a bad idea because it's fun!

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

@@anderdrache8504 Indeed! I think that even if nothing comes out of this project, hopefully it inspires someone to get into lisp, write their own text editor, etc. Writing a language and writing language tooling are IMO two of the greatest things you can do as a programmer to further your knowledge on how computing works.

@Vivraan 10 ай бұрын

Nvim configuration is a great pain in the rear

@Sameer.Trivedi 11 ай бұрын

is it written in JDSL?

@esra_erimez 11 ай бұрын

"boomering really hard" 🤣

@MrAlanCristhian 11 ай бұрын

I have a pet project that is an code editor 😅

@astronemir 11 ай бұрын

Simplicity is good to arrive back to but when you start there and see caveman like code all over its hell

@Odod4000 29 күн бұрын

lua on top yeaaaa

@Xtrit 11 ай бұрын

Does anyone know if he uses a Dvorak layout or something?

@Vivraan 10 ай бұрын

Yes, he uses Dvorak.

@catcatcatcatcatcatcatcatcatca 11 ай бұрын

That sounds like a modern version of emacs. They want emacs.

@eriklundstedt9469 11 ай бұрын

I actually prefer writing fennel over elisp The syntax just feels more modern to me, and this from someone using Emacs on a regular basis, mainly to write fennel...

@dmytrk 9 ай бұрын

Nyooooooom cars😊

@jankampling3574 11 ай бұрын

Nice place here!

@jeremycoleman3282 10 ай бұрын

Core yootles

@omarabuabdullah4862 6 ай бұрын

being a Linux user mean that you have to spend your time configuring your environment instead of using it

@slowjocrow6451 10 ай бұрын

Helix is the best so far

@TerrenceLP 11 ай бұрын

Hilarious 😂 no one tool can fit all the needs of many. This reminds me of how much time is wasted on bs 🎉

@spikespaz 9 ай бұрын

kakuone

@Handola 11 ай бұрын

uwu

@awesomedavid2012 11 ай бұрын

Lua is kind of an abomination to me, but there's one thing I have to give it: Factorio. Factorio is written in lua and it's a mess of complex. And yet, somehow, the devs have made it so damn optimized. Perhaps it would be more optimized in Go, Rust, or C. But the fact that it can be that optimized at all is very impressive

@343N 11 ай бұрын

Factorio is written in C++. It just has a Lua API interface for modders.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

The main issue with luajit isn't that you can't write fast code, it's just that you can't write idiomatic code fast. It's one or the other. Luau has made some project on that front though (by pretty much rewriting the entire interpreter), but well-written lua (especially with luau type hints) can still hold up to certain compiled languages!

@raiguard 11 ай бұрын

If Factorio was entirely written in Lua the performance would be laughably bad. Lua is very fast for a scripting language, but it's still a scripting language. Factorio itself is written in highly optimized C++.

@bored2171 11 ай бұрын

@@raiguard Completely agree, hence why the graphical framework, rope implementation, semantic parsing, and all of the performance-critical bits for the editor will be written in rust. However, just wanted to point out that luajit is still more than performant enough for most higher-level tasks (including templating and configuration) and that implementing the majority of code in lua shouldn't be a bottleneck.

@raiguard 11 ай бұрын

@@bored2171Right, writing something like a text editor in Lua is fine. Factorio has to scale to immense sizes, and has to be deterministic for multiplayer, meaning that we had to heavily customize Lua to make it entirely deterministic. LuaJIT would be practically impossible for this use case.

@Handola 11 ай бұрын

vscode better uwu