I missed some data on this topic which changed some of the concerns I expressed here. Please watch this, too: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/btmDmNySmLHJioE.html

Two words. Austin Meyer. Regardless, xp12 for me. Def better than 11.

I have both xplane12 and msfs2020. My personal favorite is XP12 bc for me it's way more immersive. even tho the graphics are not as good as msfs, they still look very good, and sometimes it beats msfs. also the physics, especially of airliners and while taxiing, are way more realistic than msfs. you can actually feel the weight of the aircraft and the inertia too while on ground. also the default airports are better than msfs. in msfs, they look all the same and the terminals doesnt even look like terminals. also the ground textures and taxiways, they're all unrealistic and incorrect and when it's dark there are no lights illuminating the airport, killing the immersion.

I've to disagree on the point that devs don't update their planes. These planes are either from developers which are now focusing on MSFS, were not exisitent anymore at all before XP11 time ended or, (in case of the Flightfactor 777/787 and X-Crafts) they are working on an entirely new version. It's not just Toliss and Zibo, there are many more good X-Plane 12 aircraft!

I recently switched from msfs to xp 12 ( never had xp11). I prefer xp12 for the study level airliners. I still use msfs for GA VFR flying but when it comes to airliners , xp 12 feels more realistic to me as a RL pilot.

As a real world airline pilot and flight instructor, I totally agree with all thats been said here in the comments about X-Plane. X-Plane has its focus more on being a simulator rather than trying to look perfect and it's for people who want to simulate real world scenarios and/or pilots supplementing their real world flight training. MSFS is more like a game for people who care about eye candy and some nice and shiny graphics and landscapes.

Seems like everyone here is just about the eye candy and the bells and whistles rather than what matters in a sim vs a game. XP was created as a training tool for pilots and less about the photorealism of the graphics. If you go into a Level D simulator (that’s a full motion, type-specific professional training simulator for pilots in airlines, etc.), the graphic representation is primitive compared to MSFS2020 or even XP12. There’s a reason that XP (the professional license) is FAA approved and MSFS is not. What real-world pilots care about is the realism in the representation of flight physics, weather, and procedures in the cockpit. IFR supplemental training for example, is way more realistic in XP than in MSFS. And if you were to build a home cockpit, you’d use XP hands down because you’d be able to program every switch in a cockpit, something you can’t do on MSFS. So that’s the difference, sim pilots and gamers who care more about the “wow factor” and eye candy, which is the unimportant realism when it comes to flying, MSFS would be the better choice. But I would definitely recommend XP to anyone who wants to use a sim as a tool to supplement your real-world training or for proficiency gaining purposes.

there hasn't been much of a visual change between xp11 and 12 but most of the changes are beneath the surface. the weather engine and physics engine were massivly overhauled. i found these changes very noticable and welcome. XP12s biggest problem is 3rd party devs many devs such as INI,JF and Orbx have switched focus to msfs. furthermore what addons JF make are normally boiled down versions of their products for other sims. tldr XP12 is the best for learning to fly, msfs is the best for the casual who doesnt have a need for the complexity associated with xp fm's

Very little of what you've said about X-Plane 12 is true. You should note, however, that LR originally tried to make XP12 aircraft backward compatible with XP11 but could not honor that commitment. The result is that while some XP11 aircraft will load in XP12, they are incompatible with the sim. XP12 has essentially been in beta for the past year. However, LR has finally settled on a stable platform so that developers can only now release add-ons without them getting broken by an update. By the way, X-Plane is considered an engineering tool (some real-world aircraft manufacturers use it in the design process), and it is FAA certifiable for real-world flight training. Ultimately, I believe that X-Plane 12 will become the sim of choice for more and more people.

saying that xplane11 has the same graphics as xplane12 is also untrue. xplane12 has improved volumetric clouds 3d trees new water and a whole new lighting system

One other major factor is stability; I had recently acquired XP12 before the price increase last year, installed and tried a few stock aircraft out. Within a couple of hours, everything was configured and quite seamless to how I had it set up in XP11 with no glitches, stutters, major hangups etc. Contrast that to MSFS, which I've had since 8/2020 where the file system must be so borked by now it's a chance whether or not it'll start past the updating screen - I realize the solution is probably to reinstall, but I'm just not seeing the value in getting back nearly 200 GB of downloading time. In 2020 I was impressed by the visuals, the multiplayer and access to the streaming Earth, but now with constant server updating, chancy multiplayer sight unseen issues (yes the friends still do the disappearing act), loading problems and it seems like anytime a beta will come out the server traffic is horrendous. Honestly, I'd rather have a system knowing that legitimate improvements are being made, even if the textures are subpar for a few of the stock planes, at least the functionality is there. It's almost an apples to oranges comparison in the outlook - while I'd like to continue using MSFS, I just cannot be sold on pretty visuals alone anymore since there's a myriad of other things happening that ruin the experience over time. XPlane/Austin/3rd party devs are likely to fix the bugs and deliver a better product in the end, while MSFS is a true unknown in both 2020 and 2024, even if the 3rd party continues to support the platform it may not be stable enough to even matter.

Honestly I dont agree with the argument that Xplane 11 is nearly as good as 12.. Just the better flight dynamics and volumetric clouds make 12 way better overall. When you go back to Xplane 11 after playing 12 something just feels off with the way the airplanes feel, especially with the smaller planes such as the Cessna 172. While I'm not an expert on how flight simulators work, I'm flying a cessna 172 in real life as I work towards my private pilots license and I'd say Xplane 12 feels the closest to the real thing. The flight dynamics are what Xplane 12 is all about NOT the graphics. The feel of the planes in MSFS is quite good but realistically the actual flight model is very unrealistic and Xplane 12 blows it out of the water.

But MSFS is the most hosed up flight sim on this planet. I owned it from release, it took to SU05 to get the 787/747 even working. Then PMDG came out and said publicly, they had to code their plane under the surface, and the updates break more than they fix. I had hydraulic issues in the PMDG which I COULD NOT FIX, the software was broken, and it took two updates to fix that. I had had enough. I went to XP-11 per the recommendation of a plane developer and then when 12 was announced, I installed the beta and never looked back. I pulled MSFS off my system and will NEVER go back. FWIW-I built PCs from the 90s forward, I owned my own company and also worked in a professional client support in a 3500-employee company plus my own clients, so PCS are not the issue, it's the crappy software in MSFS, and I PERSONALLY DO NOT RECOMMEND IT. XP-11/12 have the season correct, regardless of when you set date, MSFS do not. The SW updates in MSFS break more and more stuff and take another update to fix it. XP updates weekly almost all the time, and I have never had anything break. YES, some of their planes are a little old, but professional pilots have compared the flight model against each other, and XP comes out on top. I create a flight in Sim Brief, and if I have navigraph, it updates the airac cycle monthly, no old nav data for me. Get real, you have not got a clue, you like eye candy, and not professional flying. OH, was taught to fly in MS-95 by a Delta MD-11 Captain so I am aware of what most pilots go through, MSFS is not worth a bucket of piss.

Flight Simming is not about competition, you must be a millennial to have that mental state.

In Austin's head, he knows what we want more than we do. Then again to be fair, MSFS stomped the life out of P3D too. The sim looks and feels fantastic and even though it has a big clunky xbox interface, they are doing a great job of trying to be everything to everybody. I think Laminar is very aware their next major release will determine their fate. They also know the clock is ticking. I saw some comments from them admitting they need to compete on the global ground scenery scale. Meanwhile - Austin is writing stuff on his whiteboard nobody cares about.

the biggest issue of your comparison is very skewed. almost all of X-Plane 12 users do not use the Steam version, but rather purchase it directly from Laminar. so the steam numbers will reflect accordingly.

If MSFS didn't exist X-Plane 12 would be huge, but thanks to Asobo and access to petabytes of MS map data competing isn't really an option. Not that they couldn't have screwed it up and it does still have some minor issues, but kind of like how Street Fighter 4 rebooted fighting games MSFS introduced hundreds of thousands of new players to flight sims thanks to accessibility and incredible presentation, you can even play it on console. Due to its popularity MSFS has received more support from the add on community which has grown larger than ever before, and the quality of those add ons keeps getting better and better as the standards and expectations keep increasing, then there's FS2024 on the way introducing missions and objectives and carrying over any marketplace add ons you've picked up before, it's a scale of production that the X-Plane devs just cannot match. There's never been a better time to play flight sims, but unless MS screw it up it's going to be very difficult to compete.

Was a big XP11 fan, then xp12 came, big dissapointment. Today I only use MSFS and love it, so much going on in that sim, MSFS is the future, Just wait for MSFS 2024 next year, looking forward :)

If you want a true simulator, Xplane is the way to go. If you want to game, MSFS is your best bet.

I only purchased Xplane 12 because of the announced drastic price increase starting 2024. I loved Xplane 11, but switched to MSFS2020. I was really disappointed to find that many of my planes (like the hot start TBM-900) even though they promised a year ago it would be a free update to Xplane 12 still hasn’t happened. Ground graphics was no different necessitating the huge orthos I had, a problem that msfs2020 solved and does much better. Xplane 11/12 still has better VR integration, but it’s not horrible in MSFS2020. Agree completely it is far better for the community to have more choices.

I have just ordered X plane 12 so you can raise concerns to the cows come home.

as others said, one of the best part about X-Plane (and worst parts about MSFS) is that it doesn't have mandatory updates if you use standalone version. I assume that's what most X-Plane users do. If they bought on Steam then they'd get auto-updated.

everyone with a realistic mindset will know that xplane is by far more realistic than msfs. But msfs is more user friendly and it’s funded all by microsoft, a massive brand. So in an obvious factor, people are going to go play msfs instead.

Xplane 12 is definitely better than 11. Sure, it sucks a lot of aircraft havent had reworks in years, but i'd rather have my 777 in Xplane 12 with bad interior graphics but gain new lighting and weather.

X-Plane 12 IS KING Performance on Linux is stunning, standard planes are excellent !

More and more developers are leaving XP 12 every few months. XP 12 is on life support now.

Pure crap video, it's well known that the 777 is very old and that FF will release soon the V2 of the 777 and the AIRAC you need a subscription for navigraph and this is for XP,MSFS,P3D

uprading from xp11 to xp12 is nothing compared to xp10 to xp11

5:00 - Yes, in this case I think you are indeed too pessimistic. I don't want to sound like a Asobo/Microsoft fanboy here, but if there's one thing the development team has shown in the past, it's that they absolutely care about the more demanding simmers! Just take a look at the latest sim updates or the announced sim updates. Major improvements in the avionics of all airliners (from the 787 to the A320) and intensive work is also being done on the flight physics (at least this is what is mentioned in the development updates). We can expect a completely new flight model for MSFS 2024! And at the Flight Sim Expo, Jörg Neumann once again emphasized that work is continuing on these factors and not just on content for casual players. And even if this was the case, it honestly would be enough for Microsoft to provide a stable basis. The rest will be done by external developers. This December alone, there were major development updates for the iFly 737MAX, the PMDG 777, the PMDG 737MAX, the Inibuilds A300, the Inibuilds A350, the FBW A380, the FBW A320neo, the FSS E-Jet family etc. etc. etc. etc. What more could one ask for?

Msfs is is absolutely dominating the flight sim industry. And they deserve it for the work they are doing and the fact that they have made air simulation at its best in the last decade.

you cant use the flightfactor 777v1 as an example to say that xplane has horrible textures, that plane is made for xplane 10 and is highly outdated

Keep in mind that XP12 is devloped by about 20 people while MSFS 2020 has the whole entrie Microsoft, Xbox and Asobo

I play xplane 12 it's my preferred "Simulator" but when I want to play a "game" I play msfs for like 20 mins or so lol

Yall really have to shut the #### up already. If you look at both sims, you can see that they are both equal in their own ways. Msfs is best in graphics, textures, aircraft selection, lighting and weather data. Xplane is best in physics, price, compatibility, and sounds. Both sims focused on different things, msfs mainly on the world and Xplane mainly on their physics engine, both sims have their ups and downs and(lest be honest here, no sim will ever match real life so stop fighting). Msfs 2024 might make it better than Xplane, but I’m talking about 2020. So just remember, before you start your journey ranting in the comments, both sims are equally respectable in their own way.

I'm going to get hate but that's ok. There are many videos out there that show both MSFS and XPlane 12 the Cessna 172s act almost identically to each other. Also, the A2A Piper Comanche is THE most realistic GA airplane you can get for any desktop simulator, and nothing in XPlane11/12 even comes close to it. I am a real world aircraft mechanic with a lot of time in GA aircraft in the air and on the ground doing systems work. There are a lot of people out there that THINK that XPlane 11/12 is better but those people are not real world pilots and have almost no experience in aircraft other than as a passenger. Is MSFS perfect? No. Is it very good? Yes. Does the A2A Comanche blow the doors off XPlane? Very yes. And before you @ me, know I have owned every version of XPlane since the first one, I have 11 and 12, and I still have my 1982 subLogic Flight Simulator data cassette, so I have been at this a very long time, and been working RL aviation for 25 years now.

I enjoy both msfs and xp12. I do believe when xp12 was released it deserved the bad criticism it got but I have to give leminar credit as the sim has come a long way since then. I actually prefer default airports in xplane 12 to msfs and with free addons like autoortho and sim heaven scenery, the graphics are comparable to msfs. If you do any night flying then there is no comparison. The lighting is just better in xplane 12. Also there is something about the xplane flight model that just feels right. Having said that, I feel msfs is still the better overall sim at the moment.

I bought xplane 11 but never used it. I also bought xp12 and I love it. The planes I bought for it work now, except 727. And I really like the lighting. I hope they do improve though. We need the competition. I do wonder if msfs will be buyable or would be based linked fix to game pass

I don't know anyone who plays x-plane through Steam

Honestly, as someone who dabbles in both but uses MSFS more, I'd say it's down to accessibility. The barrier of entry for MSFS is significantly lower. Even out of the box you already get decent sattelite scenery (most of the time), the default aircraft, while not study level, are still pretty decent for a beginner (and still offer all the navigation tools to perform IFR flights) especially the newer ones like the inibuilds airbuses, you can get online functionality without needing to hop on vatsim and the like, and most importantly, it is optimized to be pretty flyable on just a gamepad, meaning you also don't have the cost barrier of a joystick at least to get started. Of course, if you want to get a more realistic experience with either sim you're gonna have to buy hardware and software/addons besides the base sim, but I think the low barrier of entry of MSFS as well as it's more "gamified" nature (with missions, flight lessons and landing challenges) make it a much less intimidating sim to get into. Besides, you can always move to x-plane after you feel comfortable enough going for a more 'engineer-minded" simulation.

I think xplane11/12/Elite Dangerous are on the endangered list, they are dying. Xplane11/12 is like the OAP Sim for bedroom lore lovers.I have been looking for XPLANE 11/12 Military Jet reviews (youtube), but there is none, no one cares, is all you find is some girly indulgent flyby. I have both xp11/12, yet why would i wast my time when i have msfs 2020/24 and DCS, i wouldn't. Same with Elite Dangerous, Frontier seem to have washed their hands of it, the only reason we are getting updates in 2024, is because of poor 2023 financials, otherwise they would pull the plug. These devs dont deserve out support, let the sims die

If you are looking for a good and "as real as it gets" flight simulation (not on a professional motion sim used for flight training but on an ordinary home-PC) X-Plane is currently the best you can get. "The other sim" is more a game than a sim - with nice eye candy. Just one example to show how retarded the MSFS is: Although it has been on the market for several years now, hand controllers are still not supported in VR mode! When the VR mode was implemented in X-Plane (version 11), VR including hand controllers worked smoothly from day 1. Now we are in 2024 and you have to move a mouse across the table in MSFS with VR goggles on your head to operate the flight deck. It feels pretty medieval to me... Even the admittedly more beautiful graphics can't make up for that. And all this with the background knowledge that MSFS is backed by a much larger development team than X-Plane.

Im pilot i can tell you the only thing XP still win fligth fisics,model , flare etc..but it was much better than MSFS , but now after few updates MSFS improved a lot , just meters of time to be equal.

U said it yourself. The reason why PMDG takes 4 years is because it’s p3d to msfs. They are 2 very different systems and are like apples to oranges. X-Plane is built to have aircraft easily ported over. Also it’s BS that graphics are the same. A beefed up xp12 is far better than a beefed up xp11.

Every time I go to X-Plane’s own blogs I see the exact same posts. They don’t update them from one month to the next. It feels like a dead project. Shame, because I use a Mac so I use X-Plane, and I like it, but it really seems like nothing is happening there.

I have never used the steam version of X-Plane and don't know anyone who does. I will always use X-Plane as MSFS crashes every flight.

People need to look around the addons for X-Plane. So many great developers such as hot start, aerobask, Toliss, felis etc. There are some great addons on the horizon such as the FF 777. It just needs more exposure.

Like many I was XP11 fan and was looking forward to XP12 but it’s a huge disappointment. MSFS has massive development behind it and devs are creating some amazing planes that are the equal of the best planes in XP11/12. I agree it’s a shame but if you’re fair and compare the two sims you realise how dated XP12 is. With devs jumping to platform that make them the most money msfs Xplane will slowly become irrelevant except to diehard fans. To people who XP12 has better physics well there really isn’t so much advantage anymore. GFX wise XP12 is an embarrassing comparison and they will never have the maps tech for the scenery. It’s a shame I agree we need competition but it’s already over there is none 😢

It's really disappointing seeing X-Plane go down this path. It has so much potential, but with updates so slow, and being miles behind the competition, its on a road to dying completely. It's especially hard for someone like me who is running Linux, and simply cannot run MSFS.

You do know that you can't get reasonable or accurate current user counts from xplane 12 without Laminar.... You don't get any sort of idea of those numbers from anywhere else. MSFS has steam, but you don't get the MSFS numbers from them either. YOu only get any approximal data from Steam. Also, people like the screen candy of MSFS. That's fine, nothing wrong with that. However, people that love to fly, fly Xplane. Another thing not seeming to get into your calculations is that the INSTALL base is orthogonal to the AVAILABLE install base. i.e., MSFS is on consoles and PCs. Xplane, is on PCs and mobile, and to a very small extent Linux. It's really clear you're biased, which is also fine. Just acknowledge that and move along. The thing that is obvious to anyone that can fog a mirror is that the users right now are in a good position, having this competition.

There’s no way you’re complaining at the decade old 777V1 😅 a V2 is coming yet you showcase the V1 as the best it has to offer?

For me personally X-Plane will die once the PDMG 777 comes out and will die again once the A350 by iniBuilds (or the FBW A380, which ever is first) comes out and will die once again when the TFDiDesign MD-11 comes out (ohh and not to forget about the Aerosoft A330, if it ever comes out ^^). These are some really good and promising looking PAYWARE long-range aircraft addons which i'm really lokking forward to. Untill now there is almost no good long-range aircraft out there for MSFS but as soon as that changes i feel like i'll probably use X-Plane more less and less. Yes, there are some mods which enhance the long-range aircraft which we already have but it's just not the real deal for me. And the short-haul aircraft sector is also expanding with the Fenix A321 for example. So i'm guessing there won't be a future for ME in X-Plane anymore. Its also pretty interesting what Microsoft will really do in MSFS 2024. I really hope this won't bring any real trouble for third party developers, Microsoft says it won't but heys, we all know Microsoft. And i really hope there even is a good reason to buy MSFS 2024 anyway and not just so Microsoft can fill up their pockets with out money even more. 2024 will be an exciting year for us, guys.

i fly all the sims. xp12, xp11, msfs, p3d. (yes i have FOUR sim installed, its a nightmare). Im a RL pilot and I can tell you that no sim is perfect, But they all have their pros and cons. I love flying xp12 for the realistic flight model and physics, MSFS for the scenery, and p3d for the long haul aircraft. MSFS has major flaws with the flight model and just has an overall "game" feel rather than an actual simulator. laminar and xp12 just cant get the graphics right. P3D is a money pit and has no community.

Spent so much time on Xplane 10 and 11 years ago. I also spent a lot of money on XP11 with third party aircraft's. When XP12 came out and there was no support to convert XP11 aircraft over to XP12 (Carenado), I made a difficult decision to leave XP. I was extremely frustrated. I eventually built a monster PC and moved onto MSFS 2020 and I am extremely happy but the learning curve was difficult. My curiosity was bugging me so I tried XP12 with the default C172 and had a horrible experience. Not sure why. Maybe I had lost my XP feeling. To be honest, XP12 looks much better then previous XP versions including the flight model but the lack of developer support, especially when you spend thousands on third party aircraft is a shame. I've promised myself, until this developer scenario changes for XP, I will never go back and invest in XP again.

Four years ago, everyone was « headed » towards X-Plane. P3Dv5 was the very last surviving iteration, with or without MSFS, everybody would have left eventually. It really was too old to be frankensteined again. PMDG’s DC6 was a way for the developer to learn the tools necessary to bring their lineup to XP. Developers such as ToLiss or FF (777v2) invested a lot on the potential future of Xplane. That was until that very day at E3 2019, when MS announced MSFS. That really was an earthquake in the flightsim world. PMDG used their DC6 to the exact same purpose as for XP but with MSFS. I am pretty sure that the early stages of NGXu and 777 revamps were intended for XP. But the choice was easy for any developer (including sceneries) that wanted to find a new market after the death of P3D : X Plane (as was P3D) is a niche game, for a niche community, while MSFS was to bring more people into the hobby, therefore more potential customers. Wonder why Fenix’s A320 is so low priced ? Precisely because of this. Looking at XP12 today, you get the feeling that it’s abandonned by most devs (scenery devs in particular) because of what you pointed out : bascially, an XP11 scenery will work on 12, execept for fancy rain effect, so no need to bother. Add to it the fact that XP offers incredibly expansive planes, you get as a result that MSFS takes the lead. Yes, XP12 is fantastic for the feel, but MSFS has what is most important : attention from people and devs.

Msfs2020 flight dynamics are catching up with xp12 and with msfs2024 around the corner, I wouldn't be surprised if it becomes even more realistic to xp12, not that alot of us know what a real plane feels like, some do but most don't.

If want to compare modern with modern, please don't pick an old module like the Worldliner. Pick something like ToLiss 320neo, or Aerobask

I like and prefer XP12 better. XP12 is a Sim and thats what I need.

It´s a shame and it shows the almighty power of marketing & money. X-Plane 12 is definetely the better simulator - excluding the graphics only!

i have over 2k hours in XP11, i was a huge FSX simmer before but XP11 was so incredible i fell in love with it. That said, at launch i loved the graphics but MSFS felt like a toy. Now? I love it, after the A330 update i started using it more and more, they also iptimized the hell out of it and it works 10x times better than it did before on my 1070. Literally the only thing that prevents me from uninstalling XP11 is the FlyJsim 737 and 727 because i freaking love old-ass jets and those two (specially the 732) have the best soundpacks i've ever heard.

Not sure how accurate your findings are but I'd bet a lot of people are running X Plane on mid to lower end computers and crank the graphics sliders to max then whine because X Plane doesn't run good....add trying to run all that in 4K too.

Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 is a great game! XP12 is a great simulator..

The differentiating factor is whether you want eye candy or accurate flight mechanics

X-Plane 12 looks surprisingly good with the 12.1 update but it's never going to look quite as good as MSFS. Arguably 12.1 looks better than 2020 does right now, but when MSFS 2024 comes out I'm sure the graphics will blow it out of the water. Where X plane still shines and always will is when you cant see anything out the window because you're flying IFR. X-Plane was originally developed as an IFR training sim and it shows to this day that IFR accuracy and procedures are the priority. I fly both but find myself only flying MSFS when i want to hop into something with cartoonish performance like their version of the F/A-18 with no real g limit and just fly around and look at the beautiful photogrametry. If I want to fly like I would irl its X plane hands down. I know that's what everyone says, but that's because its kinda true.

It's hard to disagree with what you just said. Just stick with XP 11 and carry on life

Xp till have the best "feeling" of flight. The pitch control on MSFS is really bad. We struggle to trim a plane correctly, but XP12 looks like FSX. I can´t stand it anymore.

1. MSFS 2020 far far outsells X-Plane. 2. Most of those 'flying' MSFS are doing so because they love seeing things from the air (as do I). 3. MSFS is used more as a game - maybe XP would like to be used that way too, but can't compare. 4. XP flight models much better - look at MSFS planes 'waggling' in the sky totally unlike IRL. 5. XP is much better for pilots and would-be pilots in terms of matching real flying although you can do all of the same things (e.g. instrument approaches and landings) in MSFS. 6. MSFS makes landing planes almost failsafe while landing a plane safely in XP demands skills somewhat similar to IRL.

Xplane is like an indie simulator with great physics and MSFS 2020 is like a AAA XBOX game filled with eye candy. But MSFS has no FFB, terrible telemetry making it terrible in a motion sim with an FFB stick. Really not possible to compare the two at this point.

dumb, flightfactor is literally making a 777v2, i fail to see why a 12 year old addon being outdated is x-plane 12s fault

I use both, but I enjoy XP12 more. With ortho and simheaven it rivals MSFS in terms of visual quality. There a crispness with XP that you don’t get with MSFS. Both sims have their place.

I still prefer flying aircraft in xplane than fs2020. I do wish however that they could better improve scenery for more authentic VFR flight.

I think if X-Plane 12 just had the visual look that MSFS has, it would win hands down! Sometimes I can't help but stare the beautiful sunsets, beaches and landscape that is MSFS! Like you, I hope MSFS2024 does not shift its focus from simming to becoming just another plane game!

In was on MSFS since more than 25 years. I have switched on X-Plane12 last october 23' The only thing I regret It's not make it earlier. All is best on X-Plane. All the aircrafts are best.

The problem withMSFS is that once they determine that sales are dropping, they will abandon it, just like they did with their previous version. We were all left out in the cold.

Yell@screen- I totally agree with your views on this matter. I am big fan of X-Plane 11 and all add-ons. I have racked up thousands of hours with that sim and enjoyed it. Then, when X-Plane 12 came out i was so disappointed as no "Wow" factor at all. I decided to buy MSFS, which gave me the "Wow" factor. Massive improvement over X-Plane in many ways, buy not all. MSFS is now my go-to sim. In fact, I now only play XP11 and MSFS on my monitor and in VR. I will skip XP12 just as i did with XP10.

That's what happens when the entire dev cycle from XP release to ~XP XX.50, and the associated payroll costs and other expenses have to be paid for with a brand-new sim, even if it doesn't offer groundbreaking advancements. Same for MSFS2020 to 2024 - the Azure Cloud functionality, the 14+ sim updates and world updates all have to be paid for somehow. Some will be via Game Pass but most serious simmers buy, so there's no choice but to force those people to buy again. The alternative is for them to go on subscription plans, like MMORPGs. The kicker however is that addon developers see a new sim version and they start charging high prices to convert their addons to the new version, see FlightFactor and others.

I can't even play X-plane 12. Every time after it downloads, it gets to the loading screen and just freezes. Idk what to do.

For the B777 texture stuff it’s just why would flightfactor update the B777 worldliner ? They’re about to release a completely new made from scratch version of the B777 series so there isn’t any point in updating a probably almost 10 year old mod. X-Plane also has an advantage. The founder / developer of the game himself is a pilot and flies a lancair evolution. So he’s got a big head start on how the airplane Should actually fly and the physics of flight. Not just some Microsoft developer trying trying to get it right with 0 flight experience in person. So I’m sticking to X plane as MFS isn’t the best it’s mainly just a game for the graphics.

If I could fully use my RealSimGear hardware like my Perspective+ stack with MSFS I would use it a lot more than X-Plane, but right now X-Plane along with Ortho like Orbx TE and vStates, the X-Aviation and Aerobask planes, my RealSimGear Cirrus cockpit hardware, and iPad Pro running Foreflight gives me a much more realistic experience than MSFS. I do like MSFS a lot though.

To put this in perspective, XP-12 was a way bigger let down than MSFS2020 when it first came out (before all the updates & bug fixes) That's how much X-Plane fumbled, and honestly I don't blame them.

Great video and all good points. I go back and forth between MSFS and XP12. Historically it has been that XP is better on flight physics and avionics and MSFS was better with the eye candy. Now here we are on the verge of getting MSFS 2024 and it appears MSFS is making big strides in avionics and city/landscapes/scenery and some moderate gains in physics. I believe that XP is still better in terms of flight physics but not really maintaining any of its other strengths. That is not good for Laminar Research. XPlane is very drab and not inspiring. So many people, including myself, are willing to take a small (and getting smaller) hit on the physics because almost everything else is better.

We went for the pretty pictures. Now, ive deleted the pile of garbage msfs and play xplane 12 again. If you want a realistic sim, xplane12 is better. If you want a garbage sim with nice scenery and a load of bugs, msfs.

as an x-plane fanboy i 110% agree, im still sticking with x-plane 12 but if anything stick with 11.

without toliss I wouldn t use X12. I need to create an ORTHO and put simheaven to make it enjoyable. Im using X12 only for training purposes with ZIBO and Toliss. I agree with video :)

The physics are still not there for general aviation aircraft on fs2020 for real world practice with good force feedback equipment fs2020 doesn’t even come close to the realism

As a Xplane user from Version 6 I do see a big difference between Xplane11 & 12. A lot of Plane users do not use steam. As a Mac user MSFS is not a option. I respect your view but I disagree.

There wasnt enough of a change from XP11 to 12 to justify switching over. My XP11 actually looked better than XP12 lol

Spot on. I bought 12 and to be honest it's a big let down.

I use Xplane 11 and MSFS. Xplane 12 for me was a let down. Not much of a difference from Xplane 11 and even worse performance than Xplane 12. For me that is

I was an X-Plane 10 user when FSX was the big thing. Then in 2020, I bought an Xbox and mainly used MSFS the past 3 years. I have to say I'm so unhappy with the way MSFS performs on Xbox. I've been gifted with an M3 Macbook Pro, leaving me with no choice other than X-plane and to my surprise, runs XP11 and XP12 REAAALLY well on High settings so as of this past week, I'm back on XP11 & slowly transitioning into XP12. The best part of it all, I'm back on VATSIM and simulating actual flight over flying around on my xbox in awe of how pretty MSFS looks. Realism over looks for me.

I'm on Linux, so X-Plane 12 works nicely for me. One issue I have found was when I wanted to create a bit of scenery. The official Blender plugin hasn't had an update in ages because the main dev left Laminar. The geometry it creates is pretty inefficient because it doesn't seem to reuse vertices, and it flat out doesn't support lines. The docs are old, patchy, and disorganised. Now, I don't know what the tooling is like for MSFS or P3D, but I bet it's not as bad as XP's.

why is xplane12 so bad? its actualy a very good flight sim but its still wierd that xplane12 can not beat the older xplane11 sooo i think im gonna buy the tollis a319 bye!

I have too much invested in XP11 to move to 12 at this moment.

I feel xPlane12 has better flight dynamics, although it lacks optimization, and having to use so many external plugins leads to crashes and conflict. On my PC, I get 25-30 FPS while on the ground, and 45-50 when I'm in the air. MSFS, on the other hand, is better optimized (I'm getting 60fps or more at all times in ultra graphics), but when it comes to the flight dynamics, I feel they are a tad simpler compared to xPlane 12, I guess MSFS is more casual-friendly. It has a lot of eye candy as well. You can't go wrong with either. They are both good simulators.

XP has more accurate flight modelling (physics in general) and wx and it appeals more to real pilots (it definitely "feels" more like flying a real airplane), while MSFS is more eye candy- and game- (vs simulation-) orientation, which appeals more to "casual" users. Agreed that XP (with Laminar's much more limited development budget) has some glaring deficiencies, but there's a reason you can log actual hours (with the appropriate licensing) with XP but not with MSFS. It's essentially simulator vs game, although MSFS has made some strides in the realism departement and can provide a reasonable sim experience in some cases. It's like photography these days--with very few exceptions, real photographers use real cameras and post-process their RAW image files, while snapshooters use phones and post their "auto-gen" JPGs to social media, rather than printing them. MSFS simply has much more visual appeal and simplicity, and that's what sells. Of course, there are options in MSFS (mostly payware) which offer more realism (cold startups, following an IFR flightplan, flying procedures, etc.) and the scenery is more believable (at least in clear weather--XP does a great job in low-vis scenarios--it's the roads that just don't look right, which is a problem in MSFS as well). I've used Microsoft's FS since v2 (mid-'80s) and XP since 9, and MSFS 2020 is the first MS product to come close to XP. They both have deficient ATC, but that seems to be improving (albeit slowly). XP12 is better than 11, but not radically so and most of the a/c aren't that great (especially the terrible interiors/panels, with some exceptions). Agreed that MSFS 2024 looks even more like a game than 2020 (very disappointing) and yes, we need XP not only for competition, but for its superior platform--they just need to work out a lot of details! I hope Austin, et al, continue to improve their product and the FS community continues to support them--I buy every release and provide feedback to help them in their mission.

We want MSFS to really do better when it comes to allowing multi monitor support for SIMBUILDERS....Currently XP12 wins on that front hands down.

You are kind of incorrect about the XP12 being "exactly the same" as XP11. The physics engine has been completely redone, and the graphics have definitely improved.

I have x plane but I didn’t buy it from steam I think most buy directly from x plane their site not from steam so these number are true but still off

It’s a shame. Before long, we’ll be stuck with a single flight sim, and its godawful Xbox UI.

Twitch category viewership tells nothing, most use the Flight Simulator one regardless of which one they fly, and this has been like this pretty much since the beginning. And you should already be fully aware of this. Second, Steam doesn't tell the whole picture, since not everyone uses it with XP11/12, and this also goes for DCS World btw

Grafics grafics grafics......