wtf is improvising compositionally?! | s c o r e s t u d y 0 9

Рет қаралды 8,670

3 жыл бұрын

When it comes to the music of tenor saxophonist Mark Turner, the line between composer and improviser is substantially blurred. In order to understand why, I tore apart his composition "Jacky's Place" and his improvisation "Sky & Country" with the help of some friends.
Kevin Sun: www.kevinsun.com
Olli Hirvonen: www.ollihirvonen.com
Marty Kenney: / marty_kenney_
Nathan Ellman-Bell: / nathan__eb
4:52- part one: INSIDE
12:56- part two: OUTSIDE
19:52- conclusion: IN & OUT
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Sources:
McGregor, Jeff. ‘Mark Turner: Transcriptions and Essays.’
Ratliff, Ben. ‘A Conversation With Mark Turner.’ www.musicandliterature.org/fe...
Sun, Kevin. ‘Honor What They Say: Mark Turner, Student and Teacher.’ www.musicandliterature.org/ex...
#MarkTurner

Пікірлер: 78

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Hit me with your favorite Mark Turner solo!

@matthewbenedict5923 3 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/Y61jma-jlc21hYE.html

@bungNik 3 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/asxxmdCB1J3Ygmg.html

@TheCompleteGuitarist 3 жыл бұрын

Lathe of Heaven, all of it.

@_Quzey_ Жыл бұрын

His solo on Lulu from Enrico Rava's "New York Days" is ridiculous

@bengolding1551 3 жыл бұрын

Adam Neely sent me. No regrets. Awesome stuff.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Benny.. I assume you are Benny Golson, Jr? :)

@fabianvonlindern7247 3 жыл бұрын

It's quite crazy that we get a video of this quality completely for free ! I also don't know when I last saw something simply so intelligent !! It's always motivating and inspiring to watch your videos please don't stop making them :)

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Fabian. I intend to keep making them :)

@DaMonster 3 жыл бұрын

Hey man I just wanna say this is my favorite mark turner song and where I live in Iowa I don’t know anyone else who likes jazz like this. Hearing you discuss it like this inspires me so much.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Midwesterners need to get hip (I'm from Illinois!). Glad you're inspired, David :)

@DojoOfCool 3 жыл бұрын

I always taught to think of improvisors and composers as one in the same, especially once improv teachers started having me write solo then play them. Now the thing I see some is what I call improvisor or even just rhythm section musicians that play like arrangers or solo like arrangers. First time I heard someone referred to this way was Jaco Pastorius. Jaco was a composer and arranger, but then I heard that he would work on his solos from an arrangers point of view. That tunes he soloed on regularly he was sit arrange sections of his solos to fit into his live improv. It was a ongoing and constant process for him continually evolving his improv. Then I listen to pianists like Lyle Mays and his work with Pat Metheny and his accompaniment work and even solos were played like arranged sections. Jaco and Lyle always thinking of how their playing fit into the big picture of the song even when soloing.

@spencerschoening5355 3 жыл бұрын

Fascinating and impressive to see such a successful bridging of improvising and composition. I am reminded of the book Free Play in which he argues... well let's see if I can't find a decent quote: "In a sense, all art is improvisation. Some improvisations are presented as is, whole and at once; others are 'doctored improvisations' that have been revised and restructured over a period of time before the public gets to enjoy the work." I've loved that perspective ever since I came across it. Thanks for the window into this kind of music - I've often found that 'modern mainstream' kind of sound a little alienating, so it's great to get some insight into its beauty.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks for that quote, Spencer. I love that book! Appreciate your comment.

@brodeyfox8318 3 жыл бұрын

When I think of a jazz musician that improvises compositionally, I think McCoy! His lines have such integrity, every 4 note cell has such a close relationship. He'll often contrast linear sections with hemiolas. when he comes back to linear action, the left hand usually does an offbeat counterpoint line for variety,

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Hell yea, 100%, couldn't agree more!

@TotalDESSSS 3 жыл бұрын

Such great content, high quality analysis. Came from Adam's recommendation, was not disappointed!

@Octomizer 3 жыл бұрын

Bruh I can't believe you have so few subs. Your content is gold

@EliahNebb 3 жыл бұрын

The mix of improv and composing makes me think of classical-style keyboard improvisers: organists like Olivier Messiaen and Thierry Escaich, or Mozart-style pianists like Robert Levin. Their improvisations sound like compositions already, and I think that's because they're pulling from a musical tradition that most people don't know about. What we know of as classical used to involved a lot improv, and those musicians were/are so fluent in their styles that the improv sounded planned. If you know the conventions of a piano invention, you can hear how an improvised invention follows the "rules" of a composition. Fluency in the style kind of makes someone stop sounding like they're improvising, and instead sound like they're just playing the music. "Just playing the music", as opposed to sounding like improv or composition specifically, feels like one way to describe this process, to me at least.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Wow, very interesting perspective, Eliah. I don't know all that much about Messiaen's improvising- although I've heard it was truly remarkable. I like how you put it- "Just playing the music" sounds exactly right. Maybe we should stop highlighting the differences between composition and improvisation, and focus on the act of music-making?

@EliahNebb 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock There's video of him improvising on KZfaq: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ib9nmpOGsbzQYn0.html. Musicians who strike a balance between these two things can be mystifying. But the skills it takes to get there are universally useful.

@EllieMcEla 3 жыл бұрын

i love you for doing this

@FullOvellas 3 жыл бұрын

Man the work you're doing here is just so good. You are great at communicating your ideas and I love how you also rely on others in order to make this videos. This is helping me maintain my morale at a time when my passion for music making is at an all time low.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Sergio. My music-passion is also at an all-time low! This is just the roughest year- I hope you're finding time to just chill (don't worry if you're not practicing much right now, it'll come back).

@ELDRofficial 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you for the inspiration! This really chimes with inspirations I take for my independent music, it’s so nice to see this kind of work out there.

@pierfrancescomucari 2 жыл бұрын

Nice subtle and deep sense, bravo Brian!

@noahv8671 3 жыл бұрын

What a wonderful, thorough video. It's very refreshing to find a channel that discusses music like this.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Thanks, Noah.

@patrickcollins9091 Жыл бұрын

it makes sense that you studied with Jim as he was a clear voice for modern harmony in the contemporary idiom when i studied with in the late 70s

@cheeckjerokee 3 жыл бұрын

I believe that composition and improvisation share the same relativistic relationship that harmony and rhythm share (or electricity and magnetism, if you wanna talk physics) Essentially, improvising and composing sort of embody the notion "I like the way this sounds, so imma do it" - however improvising is an instantaneous act, while composing is alot like improvising with no time limit between decision making.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Strongly agree, Jeffry. You put it pretty succinctly.. why did I made a 20-minute video trying to say that lol?

@cheeckjerokee 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock I mean, you certainly said a whole lot more interesting stuff than i did. That's just the sound bite version of your video. Relativity is a very very interesting subject, however I haven't studied it in a super duper formal manner yet, but I imagine there's more fun ideas to mine from this notion of relativity in music.

@sajiste 3 жыл бұрын

A theory channel thats really complex, helpful and doesn’t utterly confuse me 🙏 Instant favorite channel 🙏

@bungNik 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Adam Neely... precious information

@samjhylton 3 жыл бұрын

Instant subscribe... Love your content. My favorite Mark solo is on JJ, but I'm definitely sleeping on so many other great and more complex solos of his.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

I guess I should add that my favorite solo is on "Moment's Notice" with the Billy Hart Quartet. But, I thought it might be too hard for me to transcribe...

@amyianhardemon8648 3 жыл бұрын

I'm always so inspired by musicians like you that aim to educate and de-mystify music in such an effective format; I hope to someday be brave enough to do the same and I love you/your work and Big Heart Machine! 💜

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you, Ian! With that attitude, I would be willing to bet my bottom dollar that will you achieve that goal. Best of luck.

@DalaiLaraLBOE 3 жыл бұрын

0 dislikes,, u love 2 see it (also thank you for making this content. as a classical composition student/jazz pianist/fellow ligeti stan who is stuck between worlds, being able to see the things i learn in comp class contextualised with fucking dope jazz music is simply, The Dream.)

@susmr3126 3 жыл бұрын

Thank You！

@BenFairbank 3 жыл бұрын

I saw George Garzone play a 20 minute or so improvisation where he pretty much played every possible permutation to get to the tonic. Then at the end he played a major third harmony harmonic thing and my head exploded. I have some bootleg recordings of Kurt and Marc that are awesome. Great video

@shaftpunk84 3 жыл бұрын

As someone who really only got into modern jazz relatively recently, I love hearing people talk about albums or songs they love that came out in that period right before I really started paying attention. Watching videos like this and some stuff by 80/20 Drummer exposed me to stuff like Dave Douglas’ Strange Liberation and Kurt Rosenwinkel’s The Next Step. Now I can add Mark Turner’s Dharma Days to that growing list. Thanks.

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

I LOVE strange liberation. That record meant so much to me. Later, Dave made a big band record with Jim McNeely where they do some of those songs. You should check that out- “A Single Sky.”

@shaftpunk84 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock thanks, I’ll check that one out!

@hannes4971 3 жыл бұрын

Man, this is awesome, super well done video! Thanks.

@hannes4971 3 жыл бұрын

I kinda love the internet for this. An absolute niche topic for only a few Mark Turner lovers ... but there are great creators like you outside and they allow us to experience awesome content. Ah, and here is my composition with dissonant chords referring to this kind of music ... haha, guess I did it ... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/h7CSq6t0ncy3dZc.html

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

I loved listening to that man. Reminded me of Keith Jarrett's American Quartet meets Dave Liebman (or something- not to diminish your originality). Berlin! The greatest music scene in the world!

@johnmichaelpatrick369 2 жыл бұрын

Adam Neely sent me here, nice to meet you !!!

@kinolopes7145 3 жыл бұрын

awsome

@M139NG 3 жыл бұрын

15:51 that makes me feel like someones breaking in a door. Every "B" is a slam on the door and the in-between notes are all the "run-ups". The "C"is when it finally breaks and thats when all the notes come running through the door:)

@dallasjazzcollectiverecord582 2 жыл бұрын

Nice.

@shankpeterman 3 жыл бұрын

EPONYMOUS!

@DavidBennettThomas 3 жыл бұрын

Great vid!

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

...whoa... I'm a fan of your work, David! Thank you!

@DavidBennettThomas 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock You gotta be kidding me, because now I've become a fan of yours! :) Great videos, man! Also got hip to your from Adam Neely, like some other commenters I've seen on your videos...Keep going!!!

@saethddu1375 3 жыл бұрын

I came here because of your Adam Neely's video appearance, and what a great discovery! I'm glad that I came here and I'm subscribing as I write. I know your thing is jazz, but it would be awesome if you could analyze some Jeff Buckley's music, he is a genius and a hero to me! He has influenced me a lot in my style of singing. Maybe his not a jazz player, but has a lot of touch in every note he sang and played. I don't know if you know him, but if not, I suggest you to listen a little bit of his music. Thank you for your work. In the future I will come with more suggestions and eager to see more of your work! Greetings from Chile!

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Chile! I had a roommate who was a violist from Chile. I *LOVE* Jeff Buckley. I might take your suggestion... I could talk for hours about "lover, you should've come over."

@saethddu1375 3 жыл бұрын

Brian Krock That would be great! “Lover, you should’ve come over” is my favourite song! The music he wrote and the passion he transmitted in his melodies is sublime. And the lyrics are beautifully written too. I have some unofficial theories about the meaning of them, something like a desperate song about his father leaving him, disguised behind a passioned love song, so cool! Similar with what happened in a song called “Te para tres” by Soda Stereo where the front man of the band, Gustavo Cerati, sing about his father telling him and his mother, that he has been diagnosed with cancer while they were having a cup of tea, all of that disguised behind a love triangle song. That's another artist you should listen to, the argentinian band Soda Stereo and its frontman Gustavo Cerati. Thank you for taking the time to respond! Good luck! :D

@SonnyGreenwichJr 3 жыл бұрын

Neely sent me, he is like himself. I've smashed all the smashers! Salutations from astonishingly wet and chilly Ireland! ☘️☮️🤘🏽🤠👍🏽☮️☘️

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Ireland is one of my favorite places on the planet! Home of James Joyce, the one who was more like himself than anyone every haha

@pandanurse 3 жыл бұрын

Besides Turner (and Steve Swallow) who are some of the jazzers of the 80s-10s that you especially love? I've heard a bit of jazz from these decades, especially the last 10 years, but I'm interested to hear who u think are the important names!

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Woof there are just so many, 🐼 🧑‍⚕️! Jason Moran, Ambrose Akinmusire, Wayne Shorter, Brad Mehldau, Aaron Parks, Kurt, Peter Bernstein, Fred Hersch, Matt Mitchell, Tim Berne, Branford Marsalis, Cecile McLorin Salvant, Keith Jarrett, Tyshawn Sorey, Vijay Iyer, Steve Coleman, Greg Osby, Henry Threadgill... each name I type brings 10 more names to mind! Wish I could be more specific. There is just so so much great music in that three-decade period.

@pandanurse 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock i'll bet! But yeah thanks! Ill make sure to put em on my to listen to playlist. Its really easy to find all the names of the big jazz guys from the 20s to the 70s, but after that, I trust someone in the tradition like u are to be in the know if that makes sense.

@bixomaligno 3 жыл бұрын

Adam bring me here

@rynxlaneran 3 жыл бұрын

Rumples! Please....do rumples! This video was amazing btw, thank you!

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

I remember transcribing Rumples the day that record came out, lol!

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

I actually wrote a song for my old band called “Stiltskin” that was directly inspired by it!!

@rynxlaneran 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock Nice! Anywhere I can check it out?

@fefritschi 4 ай бұрын

Yesterday I listened to the "Phantom Thread" OST (absolute masterpiece, both the film and the music!) and found a video by one "Brian Krock". Today I listen to Mark Turner, what do I find? Did you read my mind?

@HB-ve4wi 3 жыл бұрын

Intellectualization is the death of soul

@BrianKrock 3 жыл бұрын

Couldn't disagree with you more! This attitude coming from a person holding a saxophone is surprising: 100% of the greatest practitioners of jazz music were intellectuals. Anti-intellectualism is one the largest problems plaguing our society today [see: Trumpism, anti-vaxxers, climate science deniers, etc]. It's the very reason music programs in our schools have been suffering for decades. Enriching the soul and expanding your knowledge go hand-in-hand. So... be careful as you travel down this slippery slope!

@HB-ve4wi 3 жыл бұрын

@@BrianKrock I take your point. Especially about politics.But intellectualizing and intellectualism are not the same, and I didn't say anything about musicians being intellectuals or not either.