Love ya Mike. As long as your cool with it, it's all good

Y’all make me wish SO MUCH that I had more - OK, any - friends who play video games. I have so much fun on this channel, just watching how much fun YOU have. And Mike, you’re such a good sport about it. I’d honestly be cheesed.

That's great Mike that you were okay with it! It may be remiss though not to mention that even though Andy would have won anyway its frustrating to watch as a viewer even if both parties are cool. Bit disappointing as to what could have been a more enjoyable challenge to watch, Though it is a challenge amongst friends so I see that side of things as well.(Dont think Corazon has cast Magic Missle in a session before? Lol)

Eggbert coming in with the heart of gold.

While Andy did press his advantage, ultimately, I don't think it really affected the final result much, if any. Short of Andy throwing, I don't think there is much that could have done to alter the outcome. It's just the luck of the draw and could have just as easily been a racing game or other challenge Andy isn't so good at.

I know!

It wouldn’t have helped, since rogues get an extra dash as a cunning action. Mike would have to keep using his action to dash rather than attack, but Andy could both dash and attack.

I had the same thought. It would allow Mike to get into melee range, but not make an attack that turn. Next turn, Andy could cunning action disengage to get away, but Mike's movement would have allowed him to reach. If instead Andy accepted the attack of opportunity (if that even works in pvp?) and used cunning action dash, he would have gained back the lost distance and still be able to attack on his turn.

@@kaniamia Egbert would of been getting attacks of opportunity though. Corazon could of disengaged aswell but he woudn't of been casting spells then.

@@jonathandavies1716 Nope, you don't get attacks of opportunity against allies in BG3. The game was pretty rigged against Mike honestly. Being an oathbreaker also took away Mike's channel divinity abilities, one being a really good heal, the other being a way to make Andy stop moving from a distance.

Not to mention that because of the classes involved, allowing Andy to start at such range was an insane advantage for Andy.

Yeah, I'm with you here. What would have been fair would have been to start at the same spot and Andy's advantage in initiative would mean he would be able to move on his first turn. Mike beat the odds with his roll but gained no advantage for it because Andy had already moved. And it's not like advice isn't allowed in challenges; Jane is always given tips in FIFA!

It’s a fun little Xmas challenge, it’s not that deep…

I mean Luke’s advice was go for a dignified death lol

​@@d818581dddeep isn't the same as upsetting obviously given how many comment threads you've had to reply "it's not that deep" to.

It’s not that serious. It’s fun, silly little Xmas challenge.

@@d818581ddBut don't you feel that there's a certain unfairness about it?

My SO and I always comment on these that part of what makes them so good is that the others are always cheering along and offering advice even if doing so hurts them. This was such a "f you, I'm winning this" that it's not fun to watch. I was fine with the first of Andy's moves because starting a duel right besides each other is odd, so go ahead and put in the space that probably should have been there from the start. But the second move? And the third? Nah, that's just cheating. In the end, Andy almost certainly would have won anyway with a rogue against Mike, not the least because Mike doesn't play the game. Which in part makes it ok because the outcome wouldn't change. But also makes it worse, because it's a pointless cheat that only makes it more fun for Andy and no one else.

A better challenge would have been each of them taking turns fighting each other's character while the other wears auntie Ethel's mask. That way they would be able to use their full range of abilities without issue.

On the other hand, Mike hasn't played the game as much as Andy. And Andy is a rogue. So it's all fair and square

​@@nickkowalski5209 Mike having not played it as much makes it even more of a disadvantage for him actually, but how much someone has played a game or not is part of the challenge so it really isn't the issue here. And Andy being a rogue gives him even more advantage when fighting another player, since he could literally just crouch and sneak attack every turn without having to worry about Mike being able to see him, since allies cannot break each other's stealth.

@@nina9565 ugh. I understand what you're saying. I'm just kidding that a rogue getting an unfair advantage is exactly what a rogue would do.

But also, anyone could have picked this card so Jane could have had to fight Andy or Luke and Ellen. I think this is just the worst card Mike could have picked. But seeing the Oxventurers fight in Baldur’s Gate is pretty funny.

That is the only way to correct this challenge.

@@jstewart_1 The next Oxventure episode, Corazon needs help from Egbert and Egbert just runs away giggling as Andy fails his final death saving throw. "Payback!" Ah, if only Mike were the petty sort and would do that. He's such a lovable big oaf at times. Andy takes advantage of that far too often.

I mean, Mike has played D&D before, he could have at least had an idea of what he wanted to do and only struggled with the controls, but he didn't seem to even know what his options were.

Moral! Moral!

@@J624 To be fair, from everything we've learned from six years of Oxventure, we know Mike knows nothing about any paladin abilities. 😂

@@J624 He had an idea of what he could do. But Andy immediately cheated by running away from the Melee character when he wasn't actually allowed to move. This giving him a distance advantage that Luke never called him out on. So instead of a duel we had Andy running away giggling while throwing stuff while Mike struggled to find something in his arsenal that went entirely against his usual play style. Had he had his shield and bombs, it would have been a very different story.

@@tyrannicpuppy Corazon is a rogue. Running away giggling is how they play.

"Andy cheating" is absolutely a continual meme over the last several years the OX crew has been making content together. 😂

Fair Andy "The Thrasher" Farrant bringing the heat this holiday season

@@impalala5074 You mean, like how 'fair' Mike played in that Hitman multiplayer thing?

Because it was funny

@@JackiJinx "... it was funny."? Yes, definitely. "Because it was funny."? Nah. He did it because he's Andy.

The only ranged spell he has is esnaring strike, but it requires a ranged weapon, which wasn't provided; He even tried to use it, but only the melee version was available. He also couldn't use channel oath because Luke broke his oath while grinding for XP, which makes me feel they were struggling for time here to make this recording, but still.

And since I was going to play BG3 anyway, I tested the command spell and it can't target allies, so he really had no ranged options except throwing.

Except he only did it the once BEFORE the combat actually started, and Luke himself said they should have paced away before that. It definitely didn't push it into Andy's favour.

@@GriffinWolf ...and then when Mike is trying to figure how to use his action and Andy started moving around. he's moving not on his turn. that's a bigger issue. saying the starting positions should have been different is one thing. But during Mike's turn, Andy cannot move if you use initiative counts because then it was entirely pointless to roll if you are moving/taking your turn concurrently anyway.

It really was just a meme before, and now it's not funny...

Nah, he definitely let Andy have run of the shop

The problem is they're all prerecorded so they go back and redo it again.

@@nathanshearman1269 I think the actual challenge might be done a day or so before publishing. They are wearing different clothes between the drawing of the cards and the actual challenge. Highly likely they still have time to do a rematch in the next week and a half or so.

@@TheRiekman I think they do all the card draws on the same day, then bash out the challanges over the course of a couple of days. They will all have been recorded already by now and know who won. It's easy enough for them to have multiple christmas jumpers or outfits to change between

Agreed. It was like watching the two of them playing Hitman Ghost Mode, but the roles were reversed. Only in Ghost Mode, Mike was never actively cheating. Just having a bit of fun.

Considering Luke had forgotten to separate them before starting the combat, I don't see Andy making space before they began the fight to be 'cheating'. And although Andy kept telling Luke not to give Mike tips, that didn't stop Luke from doing so. We also know Mike HAS played the game. He should have some clue about his options.

@@GriffinWolf They were plenty separated already with Corazon out on the cliffside while Egbert remained in the arena that was obviously intended to be their battlefield. Corazon then running even further away while it was not his turn was a blatant violation of the turn based rules. A rule he continued to violate for the entire challenge. Being unfortunately close to an enemy attacker when combat starts is part of the random fun of Initiative Order. Corazon has bonuses to help mitigate that and he still rolled lower than Mike. That's just the luck of the dice. He shouldn't go lower in the initiative order but also get a surprise round to prepare and run away because he's squishier than Egbert. That is again the luck of the draw. It could have been any combination of characters. It's Andy's poor luck to roll/draw low on both counts, but that is how chance works. Being dealt a bad hand is not a valid excuse for cheating. Mike had an idea of his options, but thanks to Luke's nerfing half his abilities with how he leveled him, breaking his oath and not providing his usual loadout, his only real option was melee, which Andy cheated him out of using. He didn't have any of Egbert's normal ranged abilities or weapons. While Andy was allowed to outfit Corazon quite differently to his Oxventure build, but which absolutely favoured his cheating style. It's wrong that Mike can win all the random portions and still be intentionally disavantaged by his opponent and the judge just ignoring the cheating behaviour.

@@tyrannicpuppy Andy wasn't moving once Mike actually started his turn. It was ONLY while Mike was trying to actually figure out what game they were playing and what the controls are. Hardly "throughout" the challenge! Mike could very EASILY have won except he didn't press his early advantage. The victory went to the one who knew what to do - as always.

It’s really not that deep…

Andy moving when turn mode failed to engage was cheeky but I think we would’ve let it slide. Moving off turn once the match had begun should’ve been addressed then, but failing that should be a forfeit/disqualification.

​@@ToadcolaDisqualification on what grounds? Do you have an xmas challenge rule book? They literally make up the rules. If they wanted a redo they would have just done a redo, or a best of 3 like they have in previous years. There are more important things in life to get upset over.

in what way does a level 3 rogue have advantage on a lvl 3 paladin at melee range? Did you not see him get 1 shot by ONE of the smite abilities?

@@WorldWearyAngel The odds were against Mike because he obviously didn't know the game. Andy did. Admittedly, if it had come down to a melee slugfest, Mike might have come out on top. But at least they'd have both got to do something, instead of this crap where Mike was reduced to a futile chase where he could do very little.

Yeah, this one was just bullying.

@@tammyboy2084omg you hating trolls. This was not bullying, fuck off 😅

Sweet, sweet revenge!

Particularly his magic mace. Turn Andy into a sea cucumber for his cheating

@@daggern15 I had forgotten about that. That would have been brilliant payback for the cheating.

I sort of agree, but at the end we also saw what would've happened if he had gone within range. Literally instant death. I think the real issue is that there was no way for this challenge to be fair, and it should've been left out entirely

It fairness he doesn't normally cheat. But this time he really did.

I agree it was a bit unsporting but we're not playing a sport here. It's about having fun. I don't think yellow cards would help fun. That said, a restart would have been fair, I think.

@@rosmarus1890 Other than Andy, I don't know who was having fun here. A large amount of the audience feels bad for Mike and Luke was clearly feeling bad for Mike given how much he was trying to advise before getting shutdown by Andy.

Yeah, it doesn't have to be serious and it's fun to watch them troll each other a little... but I would've really liked to see how that competition would've gone if Andy had played it fairly. Feels like a half-finished video where they only showed us the practice/F-around round. Tbh, the video would've worked as-is if they followed up the cheat/troll match with the real match instead of playing it off like, "Oh, who cares? It's just a game. Whatever. Next video!" Because, obviously, the audience cares. We're here for the fun but ALSO the games.

@@johnplaysgames3120 well said.

Repeatedly? This is the first time he has actually done anything cheaty. He's not deserved the "cheating" memery.

​@@GriffinWolfrepeatedly Moves away from Mike's character's Line of Sight whilst Egbert, hampered also by being Oathbroken, is in Turn Based mode Does so again Does so again Repeatedly, despite being called on it

@@GriffinWolf Also i fyou remember the other BG3 Mike and Andy, Andy kept stealing from Mike, not cheating, it is an RPG but definitely deserved Mike's "Hey now!"

Andy didnt REAPEATEDLY move he did so at the very beginning and starting within melee range to a PALADIN is hardly fair for a level 3 rogue XD after that his moving was on HIS turn. @@colinspeirs

​@@WorldWearyAngelas a rogue he has bonus action dash He moved. He was called on it. He moved again He did not suggest or ask that they start at a distance. He accepted turn based combat He rolled his initiative, and lost Then he started moving when Mike had entered turn based mode That is cheating

Or at least forced to walk back and sit out a round

And also a five minute video. We all saw what happened at the end. This challenge was impossible to balance and should've been left out

0.5 points for this one seems fair.

​@@kaniamiamake it negative and it's fair

@@kaniamia Given the amount of horrendous cheating that went on here, anything above a big fat 0 is far from fair

I know these are all for funsies or whatever but this one needs to be stricken from the tally. Bad form from Andy.

He rolled a nat 20 on his first attack. It could one-shot Corazon if he were in melee range.

@@AquaMaryn. A crit smite really could have done it in one hit.

Rogues get an extra dash as a cunning action, so it wouldn’t have done Mike any good. Especially since the game wouldn’t have given him opportunity attacks.

@kaniamia I guess you are right, and we would have gotten a similar running match. However, it would have hurt my heart a bit less.

It's not even about the game, it's the principle. Doing things that are explicitly not allowed, and exploiting the other person's confusion with the interface and basic controls, is not a good look. Especially for a no-stakes, funny little challenge. This channel is usually good-hearted, and this felt a bit cruel.

💯% Though, that was only 1 of the very noob moments where Mike gave away the victory (like turning his back so that Andy wound up being able to get a Sneak Attack 😂)

Only if he got lucky with a crit and lucky with damage rolls. Definitely not a smart move to heal there, but it probably wouldn't have won him the challenge. But if he wasn't made an oathbreaker, he could've healed for 2 turns using a single bonus action and channel oath, if he had a crossbow he might have esnared Andy with the esnaring strike he actually tried to use.

After he ran out of Magic missiles, that's what full-cover is for.

Yeah, agreed. I'm getting to this first handful of Xmas challenges a bit late and, of the ones on the list, this was the one I was most excited to see because the BG3 PvP sounded like a fun and interesting idea. It was funny the first time Andy moved on Mike's turn but, when he didn't move back, the rest of the video kind of went into a downward spiral of frustration and disappointment in the knowledge that Andy wasn't going to stop cheating and this was just going to be an Andy-trolling-Mike video rather than the promised BG3 PvP. Based on Mike's pinned response at the top of the comments (where he's being an admirably good sport/co-worker/friend), doesn't sound like we'll be getting a do-over so I too am left feeling like I wish I could see how that would've gone if they'd actually played it for real.

I mean, that's how Mike usually approaches most games - outside of motorsports, that is. How many years Mike and the others have played Hitman games, he's still not fully up on the mechanics for that series.

You know until like last year he thought Egbert travelled at 30mph, right?! 😂

@@kaybraywarriner7431 Still one of the moments on these channels that made me laugh the most.

@@MsKornkitty The preshest of mems...

They even gave Corazon a grease scroll, just for him to ignore it.

😮

Wild that Andy is being dog-piled on. People mad that he moved on Mikes turn: they all agreed not to do that so he stopped. Mike is a professional games reviewer and didn’t bother playing the game of the year before now. That’s on him. It’s not Luke’s job to play Mike’s turns more effectively because he can’t be bothered to learn DND.

@@Nate-zb4bk lol also fair! You could totally tell Mike was peeved but not that annoyed the good vibes were there especially with Luke's stifled laughter 😂

The biggest crime perhaps was the bad handwriting of DND 😅

@@Nate-zb4bknot that wild. People get mad when a perceived injustice occurs, they’ve dogpiled Andy for much less than this.

Granted, most of his paladin options would have been disabled due to being oath broken anyways. And Mike didn't get the bombs he likes to use