You are absolutly right !!! If you want some modern edm-like sounds and more gimmicks then Modix + Mpc One should be the very effective combination and not overpriced).

@@mirosg197 Not only the edm like stuff. I think that the Strings and Pianos are richer too.

I am returning my Fantom 0 and getting a MODx!

@@TheCaioKyleBraga why? Please not because what I wrote 1 year ago...

Jon Melas is still available? I can't see it anymore

What do you mean by that ? Can you tell me how to connect my computer via USB sound card?

There is loads of amazing very deep Modx/Montage tutorials here on YT.. remember that the modx is basically just a montage in a budget friendly package, so have look around.. there all there

You just said the perfect wish! hahahahhaha

You said it all

Looking forward to it. As a huge fan of the MODX since it first arrived, the "one" feature I really wish it has was.....more multi-sample memory. Because there are tons of great sound collections for it, many free even. If 1 gig of multi-sample memory on the MODX is limiting, imaging having just 1/4 that on the Fantom 0! Plus the MODX has 5.6 gigs of great multi-samples onboard in addition. About the only thing we're really sure about of the MODX+ is it includes a ram expansion (yeah!!). I'll likely be playing in 4 bands by the end of the year, so if these gigs make money the way I hope, I'll be buying the new MODX+ and keeping my old one as a spare and to leave at the studio for less gear to transport to practice.

Admittedly I have some bias but I prefer our SN over Zencore as well. It was designed to breathe and live - and it does! Even if some feel it's not as high fidelity and vst 'like' as their preferred alternatives. Its something that grows on you overtime. Keybed like the rest is preference. Hard to believe but some pianists here actually like the cheap Yamaha beds (not me!) but it really just shows you something. Buy what you love. Don't just wander around looking to be told its ok by someone else.

MODX and Montage weren't going to get sequencers, but user outcry convinced them to improvise something that probably only barely fits into the operating system. Fantom's sequencer is kind of mediocre, too, just not as bad as the Yamahas. Those Roland expansions are absurdly overpriced. Vintage Roland synth patches aren't the least bit complicated, even the cheap JD-Xi can mimic them convincingly. If you can't be assed to learn basic synthwave/retrowave sound design (super simple, quick, and easy), then you can pay Roland's ridiculous fees for presets, sure.

I've compared the sounds of the Fantom 0 (via Roland Cloud VST's which have the same sounds/engines), and in general, I much prefer the Montage/MODX sounds. Especially true for sampled instruments. The Fantom may be easier to program with it's VA engines, but the kinds of sounds available seem to be targeting synth pop, electronica, techno and rap which I don't play. I play 80s/70s rock, and the Yamaha sounds in general are much more suitable. And certainly if you need any real sampled instruments, Yamaha generally wins. The Fantom 0 has 1/4th the memory of the MODX, and the new MODX+ will about double it. Most bands need decent sampled instrument sounds in addition to synth sounds.

I purchased a FantomO6 two weeks ago. Yes, you are correct, both these workstations are extremely powerful as far as features, but NOT powerful in polyphony and performing all these features at the same time. Fantom "says" you can layer 16 sounds, but doubtful you will have polyphony to play them. Fantom has 256, BUT, Zencore can use up to 8 voices per single key press. It is very easy as a master on a keyboard who plays with both hands and a sustain pedal to use up all 256 voices. I used up 256 seconds after taking the Fantom out of its box and played the first scene. I thought it was broken because what I was playing was choppy with note fall-off, and only three instruments (tones) loaded in the scene. But my Fantom is fine and not broken. So.... I will be adding other synths to the Fantom for external control through the Fantom to off-set all these polyphony issues. I will be adding a Minilogue, a MinilogueXD, a JD800 and a JX-08. these four "helper" synths will give me more polyphony for sequencing on the Fantom.

But what would you recommend for someone who is already used to something such as the Yamaha Reface DX and additive synthesis? The Roland still uses subtractive synthesis and offers little in the way of FM. It is also easier to have layered organ patches with twice as many oscillators on the Yamaha as on the Roland, which has a virtual tonewheel organ, but only for one channel.

@@Jason75913 ​ Roland classic synths are one of the best that were ever made. Cheap JX-Xi can mimic them because it’s a great Roland synth which in addition to digital sound engine has real analog oscillator and real analog filter. It’s a digital- analog hybrid synth! Yamaha can’t mimic those synths, because Yamaha is softer and can’t do Roland sound. If Yamaha could mimic Roland sound from classic synths, some of the greatest bands in the world would in studio and on concerts use Yamaha synths, but Duran Duran, Depeche Mode, Rammstein and many others are using Roland synths. Yamaha is great, but not for all music genres, it’s good for example to play a country music. With Fantom in addition to the best Roland classic synths and the best Roland Filters, you get Moog and Sequential Prophet 5 filters as well, which are some of the best filters in synth history. Except filters you get PCM samples of all legendary synths waveforms like Yamaha CS80, Prophet 5, Oberheim, Moog etc. etc. So if you choose Moog Saw and apply Moog filter, you will get good Moog sounds. Or if you choose Prophet 5 square and apply Prophet 5 filter, you’ll get Prophet 5 sound. Yamaha MODX can’t do it, because it has only ordinary samples, but just with samples without filter you can’t come really far to mimic sound design of those legendary synths which were used in 70s and 80s on almost all legendary albums out there. That’s why if you are nostalgic and you like 70s, 80s and 90s music or electronic music in general, Fantom is great choice. But if you like more classic guitar and piano sounds, for country, pop and similar music, MODX is good.

Also have a MODX and Nautilus61 which is too heavy to take to gigs and a bit complicated. Looking at the Fantom 06. Any regrets other than the ON-song issues?

@@wireguy123 Hi.. Sorry it took me so long to respond. No regrets using the Fantom, now I am using it with a Mac Mini late 2015 model and doing a lot with it in that respect. Now I have Fantom 08 for studio and some gigs, Yamaha MODX8 on the bottom for pianos and etc., Roland Fantom 07 for the organ and etc., and MODX7 on top for saxes, string parts, horn sections, etc.. Plus I have a Roland VR-09 in the wings for an additional organ if needed.. The Roland Fantoms work great with Mac or PC as long as you use the Vendor Driver with it, otherwise you won't get audio over USB. The Yamahas don't care, just plug them in and they handle Ipad, Mac, PC etc.. I will post a video at some point showcasing my rig and how I am using it...

I've never owned either of these models, but I've owned previous generations of both (MO6 and S30, and Fantom S88, JV1080, FA06). I can tell you from my experience from both manufacturers, Roland has the better user experience, especially ease of use. Roland is also better for using with your computer. In the case of the Yamaha keyboards, the sounds were amazing, but programming, navigating, and PC interface were terrible. If you learn to get around the Yamaha UI, you can't go wrong when it comes to the sounds, especially on the more realistic sounding instruments. Hope this helps.

much more of a learning curve on the MODX

Assuming both of your boards have synth action keys, which do you like better? Which has better quality? thanks

@@legatusvidsin my opinion the Roland has better keys. Feels better build. The difference is hardly noticeable. Also the operation of both. Quality is fine. Buttons, sliders and knobs feel premium.

If the super knob was the only reason you didnt buy the modx, then its a shame because you can stop it flashing, adjust the brightness of it right down to a dim light or turn it off altogether . its a great board

It's a lot better in practice, a great piece of engineering and very good live/professionally. Of course each person must pursue their own preference and it's important to love your instrument. Fantom 08 is equally impressive for what it offers and I do enjoy the 4 key bed (more so than our heavier 50 actually). In the end be mindful of role, the MoDX is great for its purpose and one of the best selling boards they've produced.

Mox x 8. no key bed problem, and that was the main thing people hate.

So you mean to say that for example if I take a midi controller, directly connect it to the MODX (MODX powers it on), I can play 9-16 channels on the controller? Will I be able to control parameters of those channels thru faders and knobs on the controller?

Thank you. It's a shame that Roland would cut corners on this otherwise amazing machine, which might make sense for the price tag, but I guess I just can't get over the mediocre piano sounds. I don't know how good the organ engine is, but for now the MODX totally blows it out of the water with its acoustic sounds. But the bigger Fantom gets better with each software update, so let's hope this one does too.

@@abohsukampret You can always buy Piano software, you can't buy controls, better DAW integration and a lot of other things like better action. You don't judge a workstation by its piano sounds, buy a piano for that matter lol

What do you mean string resonance?

@@shaquilleoatmeal3076 String resonance is the sound caused when other strings of the same note vibrate in harmony with a struck string. Damper resonance is the same, but stronger because the damper is down and all strings can vibrate freely.. For example, I press the damper pedal and hit Middle C. Middle C will sound, but so will (softly) C strings in all the other octaves. This gives a rich, spacious, resonant quality to the sound.

It's not a bad summary geofk777. A couple other notable points: The MODX screen is much larger. I found the Fantom 0 screen too over crowded and pressing all the buttons for the user interface confusing without reading a manual. I couldn't even figure out how to enter B3 mode at the store in the hour and a half I had to play one, because you had to press a crazy key combination just to enter B3 mode. Sound collections: The MODX has a lot more sound collections available for it. As someone that plays in cover bands, I feel this is a huge advantage for the MODX. Most of the sound collections from Roland are made by Roland, where as the MODX has tons of 3rd party ones too and can import all the tons of MOTIF series & DX-7 series sounds. Roland seems to target synth pop, techno, electronica & hip hop in their available sounds. I know this through the Roland Cloud synths which are largely identical engines & patches (and interchangeable between the software version & the Fantom 0 too) . I play in rock bands, and the sounds in the MODX generally are more fitting for what I play. The MODX does sample, and has 4 times as much memory for multisamples, but Yamaha (wisely) choose to have this done via a computer and imported with a flash drive. I sampled some of my own sounds using both SampleRobot & a wav editor. What you can't do is sample directly on the MODX. But why would I want to? While the MODX doesn't have a dedicated engine, the Montage version of Organimation (MODX is fully Montage compatible) package available is the best one I've heard for a synth that doesn't have a dedicated organ engine, and appears to sound the same on the Kronos version best I can tell and represents the best one for the Kronos even with a B3 engine. The Kronos version however does it without stealing any sample memory unlike the Montage version. Bottom line: You can make really good B3 sounds with the MODX, but neither the Fantom 0, Kronos or MODX will stack up to something like the B3-X soft synth available for computers & iPads. iPad interpretation. While the Fantom 0 may integrate better to a Windows or Mac "If" using one of the VST/Audio Units hosting packages it supports (I happen to use ones not supported by Fantom), but the MODX much better integrates with iOS (iPad's & iPhones) and doesn't purchasing an interface as the Fantom 0 does. I use a Windows PC for VST synths & my iPhone. Also, the B3-X organ is available for the iPad & iPad Mini. VB3 organ is also excellent, can run on my iPhone, likely stacks up to the Fantom B3 engine and is only $14. On my iPhone I run Moog Music's own Mini Moog software, Moog Modular, Korg Wavestation, Synclavier and many other desirable retro synth engines. For my uses, I feel the MODX + laptop full of VST's + iOS device is unbeatable. Well, for the kinds of sounds I want. And remember, I do have most of the Fantom 0's engines via VST's too. Yamaha doesn't offer VST's, so another reason to go with a MODX. Serve your Roland sound needs with their software instead. Cheaper, and far less gear to store or transport to gigs. Also note. The MODX+ is likely to be announced in September. A person in one of the MODX groups was sent one by accident early from Yamaha and did a video on it. All we know for sure is it has even more multi-sample memory. I do feel the Fantom 0 is a great synth and about an equal value, worthy competitor to the MODX. It's mainly a matter for users of what kind of sounds do they want out of it, and exactly how are they going to be using it. I don't use sequencers for example. I care only about live performance sounds.

I think the yamaha is the best choice here. Especially for the price. If you want a good synth they have the yamaha reface that alot of people love. And if money isn't an issue, I'd go with the udo 60

@@caleb5780 Thank you for the return. 👍

All sounds recorded are done using the line out on each instrument direct to the recorder with no adjustment so everything is as from the factory

It'd be cheaper getting the modx and a 500$ synth or something

Yes, unfortunately. Only the V-Pianos on the big Fantom.

SuperNatural is nothing to write home about, and no string resonance.

@@Jason75913 The thing is that SuperNatural pianos on the FA08 and RD2000 do have string resonance and sound much better than the identical patch names on the Fantom. Roland had significantly worsened it's SuperNatural pianos from the previous versions. And the Zen Core pianos don't have string resonance either and don't sound great. Overall, acoustic piano sounds are one of the biggest weak points of the Fantom-0, despite the excellent action. Of course, you can always use KeyScape, PianoTeq or some other VST instead of the internal piano sounds. They'd be fine on stage.

@@geoffk777 SuperNatural pianos don't have string resonance, never did. I am familiar with the FA and RD-2000. Yes, Fantom-0 pianos suck next to MODX, Nautilus, Krome EX, and even the new MPC Keys. Roland sticks to much smaller sample ROMs in their keyboards versus the latest competition right now. On the bright side, all are overkill on stage, even the Fantom-0, so it is nothing to worry about at all there, but it is a bummer nevertheless. FA and the cheaper Juno-DS can load the free EXP-04 Axial Expansion, whose "PremierGrand" preset is an upgrade over SuperNatural pianos, so Fantom-0 is weak even against older Roland keyboards. Still, Fantom-0 is the most practical on stage versus the competition, which is where it matters, in my opinion. Its synth lead/bass/pad sound capabilities and variety beat the competition, too, for anyone interested.

@@Jason75913 Well,you're just plain wrong. Download the FA-08 manual from Roland and you'll see that string resonance is an adjustable parameter. But it's not on the Fantoms, because they dropped that feature. I agree that the Fantom-0 is an excellent choice for many keyboardists. But I'm not making any excuses for Roland, and they really shouldn't have dropped this feature on a premium workstation. It's not on the big Fantoms either, except for the V-Panos.

Yes, agreed. Roland continue to put crazy limitations on user memory - why? I went with the MODX-7 (and a Korg Wavestate - also awesome) after being a long term Roland fan with the previous generation Fantom X6 and V-Synth.

Thats my thought exactly!!

What do you mean by still?

lol like after the comparison lol still is the word. Just wanted to be the smart ass lol

Hmm, Sure?

I’ll take the Fantom it looks better as well

Fantom all the way expandable zencore better workstation

I admire your mindset! 10.000 ... in words: ten thousand. Is that, what you are praising here? Big numbers? Know what!? I browsed ALL of them. "Browsing" isn't even possible, because it depends on other MANY (!!!!!!) adjustment in different edges of this overloaded, unintuitive software_patchwork, if you can hear them or not. Sound, number of elements, Mega-Voice, "sort"/"direct" (controller arps)... Did you ever do this? Do you heard them all? Do you recognise, which arp needs which adjustment so to hear it? When you are arranging, do you search in those 10.000 arpeggios? How do you do this? By Cathegories? Do the Yamaha-Cathegories tell you, what you will find where? I can't even imagine how arpeggios could be cathegorised at all. By instruments? You know the rules? Then you are blessed with an excellent knowledge/intuition! How many time do you spend in searching? Do you also had crashes when browsing? My personal record is within 5 minutes; by toggling between 5 favorites in order to find the best one for my song. I'm coming from eOrgan (40 years ago) with essential rhythm patterns, accessible via many knobs for known patterns; "walz", "rumba", "foxtrott", "march" ... and all those well known cathegories, developed in hundreds of years. Keyboards have those cathegories too. How do you search for rhythm patterns in the MODX? Searching for "march"? Attention! Some names are such crazy, that you will NEVER EVER recognize what rhythm it is. At least I am not able to. I admire your mindset. I am too simple-minded to notice an advantage of those large numbers😉 For me 10k is the same as Zero. 128 would be a number I could handle much better. Find exactly the arpeggio I need? Not in 0, not in 128 and not in 10k! I create my personal drumset, because in every standard something I need is missing. This causes enourmous latancies to pay attention, when sequencing (onboard). But it is like it is. Then I sequence my arpeggios (drums/sound). Then I convert them to arps. And there are two reasons to do so: 1. I don't find the arpeggios of my songs in those 10k. 2. I need much less time to do this, even with the help of a DAW (make, export,convert) than you do with searching in 10k. The bed stands😁

interface is better on modx tho

The modx has a better key bed?

At the end I bought Modx8+ and nautilus 6. Modx8+ Pro:1) Keybed of Modx8+ Is good enough for mid range keyboard, 2) beautiful sounds - piano sound Is Better than Roland 0. 3) not heavy. 4) boot time. Con: 1) some lag in the os; CPU and RAM could be improved, some transitions betweeen menù and sounds are not so fluid. Nautilus 6. Pro: 1) keybed semi weighted vey good and Better than Roland 06 and modx6+ 2) beautiful sounds 3) no lag after boot Con: 1) boot time>1' 30"

It's easily removed...just a thought

@@michaelgreen2283 funny they waste money on those stickers, and they like to pinch pennies when possible

It's great that the MODX6 has space for an iPad Mini, iPhone or other tablet. No separate stand required. Also handy if you wanted to sit comfortably on the couch with the MODX6 on your lap. Also has a build in class complaint audio interface which the Fantom 0 does not have for those that want to use iOS without spending money and needing to get an external interface. I'm glad there is some space on the right side. I'm not a fan of many of the extra buttons to navigate on the Fantom 0. Just make a quality larger touch screen like the MODX has and do more things with way. Much prefer navigation with the MODX.

@@michaelgreen2283 I think the point is Yamaha is being stingy with controls. You need to buy their Flagship to get 8 faders for example. I read you cant even map the MODX's faders. I guess it depends on your needs. Better DAW workhorse or stand alone system. The other thing people are making a big deal about is the Piano sounds, you can always buy award winning software

@@classicarcadeamusementpark4242 The Fantom is an Audio Interface, am I missing something?

I heard the Fantom 0 has better keybed, the MODX feels toylike in comparison.

@@abohsukampret That's true, al least for the 88 key models.

MODX keys blow, Fantom-06 keys are the same as on the older FA-06, if you've ever tried that one. Juno-DS61 keys feel almost identical to the FA-06. Premium would be FA-08, in my opinion, whose keybed Fantom-08 hopefully shares.

@@Jason75913 The Fantom-08 has Roland-s PHA-4 action, which was their best several years ago. It's a bit lighter and more mechanical feeling, but still excellent. The big Fantom-8 had Roland's top of the line PHA-50 action, which is the same one used on the RD-2000 (and their expensive home digital pianos). This is terrific, although some find it too heavy.

@@abohsukampret I tried both. I didn't like the feel of the Fantom 06 keybed any better than the MODX6 keybed. Then again, I'm not a big fan of the feel of the Roland keybed even on the premium classic Roland keyboard in my collection. It's fine and all, but I"m just not a huge fan of it. Nor is it really a problem for me either.

Thanks for the comment Dave. I think you mis-understand the explanation here. The information is spot on but has been described slightly differently so people realise what they get. for example if you wanted a piano and string mix on the Roland Immediately then it is not so obvious where and how to find one. If a Roland Scene says 'Homecoming' for example - what sounds are they? You have no idea until you choose it. And it is a combo (combination of sounds) - but called a Scene on Roland. On the Yamaha the Performances are generally more friendly named - 'Piano+FM EP' - you will know what you're going to get and the titles are a good indicator of the results. I am glad you have worked your way round both models but the video is explaining the basics for people when they are new to them and hopefully clears things up for people in a number of ways.

I agree with you Dave. On Fantom the "scene" is where you bring the sounds (tones) together. You can bring in 16 different tones if you like. Then you can split, layer, mix, eq and apply effects specific to the scene with no effect on the original tones (if you don't change the tone parameters). The demo showed that you cant readily merge scenes together, but that really is a misunderstanding of the Fantom system. Because you can readily pick the tones (right down / remember the tone numbers) from one scene and add them to another scene. It just takes a few button presses. It's really not a show stopper and is a silly criticism. I'm obviously a Fantom owner, but I really like the MODX sounds. I'd love to own both. But the scene set up and workflow on the Fantom is awesome.

Couldn't you get external synths like desktop synths to help with the lack of knobs? I'm genuinely asking, I have no idea. But for like 2,500$ less, the modx is the choice for me.

On a lonely island I would be playing to myself. I would choose sound over features. That means I would take the MODx

@@TheCaioKyleBraga yes, I think youre right... It is faboulous, when the Sound inspire your work...

@@caleb5780 The thing is: I have everything I need on my PC. But I would like to have a “closed system” for experimentation and band rehearsals. The ModX is too much like a PC for me, where most things are done via the touchscreen. The Fantom has even more to touch. But Roland's sound is really very thin and ultimately that's exactly what you love about a synthesizer. The Fantom-0 probably also has the better sequencer. It's all very difficult.

@@andreassonnenschein1250 I feel your pain 🙃 the hydrasynth doesn't have much menu diving. Or, people like the novation summit (used for 1500) for a cheaper one, the cobalt 8x 61 is so good for the price that the company almost went bankrupt 😅 they upped the price now, but the used market is still relatively low (650)