I saw right through West. I didn't understand why everyone gave Ciara crap for not sleeping with him. She was doing the right thing for her. Seeing her cry was hard to watch. West was a clown and I knew he wasn't serious about her. He just wanted her as a conquest.

West used Ciara plain and simple -dude was sitting up there stuttering and sweating trying to paint Ciara as the culprit 😅

Wes would have never had a chance with Ciara outside of SH.

It was pretty jarring watching him sit there emotionless as she cried. He said himself on another podcast that she was very supportive of him. She would speak up for Jesse and him, paid for his night to buy food at the house and the big machine with the fire for his party night. smh he should be embarrassed

Wes exposed hisself. You can buy products, try it out and return for an exchange or refund, but you can’t do that with people. He treated this girl like she was the top selling product on a shelf, he was eyeing it for months waiting for it to go on sale before purchasing. Finally, it’s on sale, tries it and discovers it’s not much different than the less expensive ones. He decides to return it and buy multiple for the same price. It’s so messed up. And having Jessie as a wingman doesn’t help. I’m sure he was egging Wes on which is why he was defending him at the reunion.

Well done, boys. I'm a grown woman who ignored the uneasy gut instinct feeling I got during West's convo with Ciara after their horseback ride. I distinctly remember thinking that his answers to her sucked and he was being evasive. And then...I went on loving the guy's vibe with Jesse, his housemates and his sense of humor. We all got fooled. The Tom Schwartz analogy is spot on. Brilliant job, as usual, as calling them the way we are really seeing them.

Disappointed in West. One of those guys that only realises he doesn’t want a relationship after they have already slept with you 😒

Good point Shooter about him not wanting Jesse to swoop in so he hogged Ciara under false pretenses. That hadn’t occurred to me but I totally believe that.

If a girl says (over and over) she doesn't want to have casual sex, the minute you decide to have sex with her, you've committed. Am I crazy? West has broken our collective hearts with his behavior.

Danielle is just…not nice. That is all I have to say. Who treats friends like that?

Happy you didnt justify his actions. Loved your take.

I am so impressed with you guys. I’ve known too many Wes’ in my life. But it’s good to know there are men like you guys out there. ❤

I don't believe that Paige couldn't get out of bed because she was so upset about finding out of the supposed "sabotage." Her and Lindsay have made progress but not that much. She's always said she knows how Lindsay moves....

Danielle shouldn’t have let Lindsey take the fall.

I dont agree that Lindsay threw Danielle under the bus. Danielle should have came clean from the start.

The most attractive part of West was his personality--now that that's questionable his maket value has dropped😂.

Wes love bombed and used Ciara. He knew he had zero intentions of committing to her.

Great episodes Bros! I have to say I really respect and appreciate your calling West out. I truly was expecting you guys to go soft on him. Sierra made her perspective very clear during the season, and he kept whining about her not giving him sex. The whole thing is so gross as a woman and then to know after all that he did her dirty anyway pisses me off! I really appreciate you guys calling it out! 👏 ❤

❤Ciara taught ladies a master class in self respect this season❤

I have been Ciara and it was so painful to see her so sad and vulnerable. He is not good enough for a Queen like Ciara. He isn't even in her league and he knows that and he knows everyone else knows it as well. His own parents were disappointed in him. Beat it, West! Big mistake, huge.

Y'all expect Lindsay to remember a phone conversation from 10 months earlier lol. I barely can remember things I did last week.

Even West’s Dad said you are going to look like a fool!

On episode 12, when they are on the boat and Paige asks him if he's sleeping with other girls, West says he isn't and there is a cut to a confessional. If you have the subtitles on, you'll see they changed the confessional. In the original one, he says something along the lines of: Ups! did I say that? Well, why ruin such a moment with.... the truth. It just comes to show his true colors

wow i needed this perspective on west. as a woman his defensive statements since the reunion have been scaring me. literally how tf can he claim to have feelings for her but still treat her the way he did?? nick viall interviewed him and basically excused it by saying 'boys will be boys'🙄so i'm very glad y'all are holding him accountable. he needs to face and accept how his behavior affects others, especially if he cares sooo much about his brand and image.

I am here for the shots fired at the Bravo VPR/Valley production changes! Appreciate the perspective gentlemen.

I'm disappointed in West, i'm very disappointed in my BS detector! he got through! I'm sorry for Ciarra! oh and BTW I'm here cause this is the video that KZfaq pushed out to my notifications. how you like them A-P-P-L......ok sorry.

Spot on about the West/Ciara situation guys. Great listening to you.

Your take on West and Ciara is so accurate. I have no notes lol

Subscribed from Montco. Thanks for your perspective as a mother of 3 girls Ciara’s age I am glad you get it. West disappointed me-at the very least she was a great friend to you coming into the house. Grrr.

West not only fooled Ciera, he fooled ALL of us. We fell in love with who West presented himself to be…his produced self. 😮

Shooter nailed this episode. So spot on

All he had to say was “I’m sorry I wanted to be ready for this because I’d be dumb not to be ready for someone like you , but I just wasn’t ready for commitment yet & I know I’m an idiot for that.”

If West was mature enough to think it through, he would have ended up flooded with followers if he'd treated Ciara right. He could have either dated her for real or properly break it off before he took her home and to family weddings. #fboy #dbag

Loved hearing your perspectives. You guys were spot on!

Oh I KNEW y'all were gonna go IN on West😂 If anyone actually listens to this podcast regularly I'm not sure why you'd EVER think he would get a pass for this ridiculous behavior 🤦🏻‍♀️

I think West looked up to Kyle and Carl when he should have been looking up to Craig. He is a good cautionary tale. It sucks Ciara has to go through this, but ultimately she has the tools to end up in a healthy relationship and uphold her boundaries. It will come to her and I can't wait to see it. Meanwhile, West has a lot of growing up and work to do before he'll be able to find partnership. I hope he'll be able to do it.

5:58 I adore Paige, whether she’s in bed or out and about, WE 👏LOVE 👏PAIGE 👏

Carl tried to destroy Lindsay.

I’d like to see someone do a look at West’s past to see what his history is. We know Bravo will not do this.

Yes, West is TOTALLY a Schwartz! We didn't want to see it all season and secretly suspected. It's nice that we're all so hopeful and shitty that we get proven wrong in such a horrible fashion. If I were in Lindsay and Carl's situation, I would go back next season and steer clear. Say hello politely and then never engage in any other conversations. Same thing with Ciara and West. Ciara should have as much fun as she can like she always does but not engage with West. Polite Hello and move on. Jesse is not Ciara's friend.

West will have a redemption Arc. Even though what he did was horrible, the Bravoverse is still somewhat misogynistic and anti-black. He will be forgiven very quickly and everyone will move on and find ways to blame Ciara and say "she should have known" ,"she's dumb for having sex with him the first place." 🙄 I hope West can grow and learn from this, but he probably will not. I do think he's a good addition for the show though and that him and Ciara will be "cordial" in season 9. I hope she finds love and is not completely mentally destroyed from this situation 💔🙏🏿

Gabby is boring and Danielle is desperate. They both need to go.

I think the issue is that we saw West making statements because we were viewers that that cierra never saw. her watching the season. She was probably like what the fuck am I doing with this guy because she never heard him in the conversation with jesse where he says “ if I found the perfect girl, I’m not sure I’d be ready to settle down” if cierra heard that she would’ve packed her bags immediately immediately like can we give her some grace here? you made a great point! he didnt want jeese to have her to have that storyline. im sorry west has TOOOO many female friends not know how bravo works. plus he lived in NYC its BS. Even the comment after jesse’s cancer story, the clip of him happy Jesse wasnt liked after the first week. he was always in competition with the new guy and gettin in with ciara and the gurls was part of that. Amanda even says “i usually dont care to talk with ppl but uf youre gonna date west his friends are our friends” he cane in the group smoother because of ciara.

“Jermaine” 😂😂 Love that this is his name now because who cares what his name is. Great episode. Even though you can’t answer for all straight men, you do help by explaining why West sucks. Sounds legit coming from the Bros.

Thanks!

So happy with your guys West take. I was so disappointed in Nick Viall for basically blaming Ciara😐

How did Lindsay throw Danielle under the bus. Paige accused Lindsay of planting that story so she has every right to clear her name. How is the person who planted the story and then lied about it the victim here. Lindsay had every right to clear her name and it wasn’t her talking shit about Danielle behind her back last year. Danielle was doing all the shit talking. Did Paige or Amanda apologize to Lindsay for falsely accusing her so why does Lindsay have to apologize to Danielle.

West is already starting his redemption tour by taking talking points from the comment section and regurgitating them. I hope the blogs etc see through it and don’t promote his bs now he wants to say he lied during the reunion and he should’ve just been honest and said she’s not the one ???! the preview for this week shows him saying he still has feelings for her so which is it??! He also spent his time after the reunion aired liking every comment that said he didn’t do anything wrong (then unliked them after he was called out) this man is TRASH and only cares about looking good to the audience

Do you blame Carl for perhaps telling Paige about Lindsey when he felt all the crazy rumors in the press were, if not created by but could have been squashed or ended by Lindsey. So he perhaps made a petty move on the count of a reaction to what was happening to him in the press.

West earned this tongue-lashing. It's the playing with ppl's emotions when they have been upfront & sincere with u is what stinks. If he didn't think he wanted to be in a relationship, cool. But he wanted his cake & to eat it too. Ick.

we gave West too much, too soon. definitely looking at him sideways now bc it’s giving he wanted the hot model Black girl for fun but not forever. a tale as old as time, sad for Ciara but hopefully she learns from this & levels up. no more lowering her standards!

To think he was actually unemployed when she gave him a chance. I Didn’t see all the hype for him either except he seemed like a normal almost shy guy. I always thought he needed to be styled up a bit. His hair and clothes were always a mess. I actually thought Ciara was going to end it bc she knew something was off there, but once he invited her home to meet parents, family, and to go to a wedding, she let her guard down. It’s not going to be easy for either of them to start filming in a few weeks.

I love you guys, but all the ads are killing me. It’s like every 3 minutes, another ad. Messes up the flow.

I hate that Jeremiah Bullfrog is going to the valley. He ruined this season of VPR! Now i dont have high hopes for S2 of The Valley.😡

Lindsay showed her complete disrespect for her fiancée when she accused him of using drugs on camera and told the entire house that sex with him was a 2 1/2 with very intimate details. To me, she's fortunate that Carl broke up with her the way he did. I certainly wouldn't have been so kind.

World’s best pod! ❤

West pulled a Chris Pratt. Saw it from the beginning. Ciara honestly just needs to wait until marriage or date a normal guy (not looking for fame).

YASSSS re ya'lls Wes/West (?) take. YES.

Gabby brings nothing,. Bring Sam back 😊

I didn't like Gabby to begin with, I am growing to love her and think the show is better with her!

In my opinion, West is a scumbag, Carl has always sucked, and Kyle is pathetic - it's like Paige says, the bar is set ridiculously low for men in this context. Jesse gets to be the good guy by comparison. Captain Lee corroborates Lindsay's perspective of Carl, where he compared him to Jekyll and Hyde. While I obviously don't have information on Carl's life, from the outside it looks like he could have bipolar, which includes rage, that could be amplified by substance abuse, which includes cannabis. I don't think Carl and Lindsay were well-matched because she is much more driven and he is a people-pleaser (which can be a symptom of bipolar when not manic - mania makes people self-absorbed and have extreme disregard for others). Lindsay has her own issues, but has shown a lot of growth with regard to not becoming 'activated'. I don't think it was cool for her to challenge Carl's sobriety early in the season, but in retrospect, it was no worse than how Kyle did it last season. It's possible that Carl's admitted cannabis use makes him prone to being abusive. It did seem like he went out of his way to try and trigger Lindsay in the end to rationalize breaking up with her, but when she didn't do it he became flustered. The sad part is, that it seems like Lindsay would have gone through with marrying him, because she had a time line in mind for accomplishing life goals because she wants kids.

Amazing take onWes…..let’s address the elephant in the room…protect women…. and protect black women at that! Single Black successful women have it hard enough trying to find a decent black man “slim pickings “hence prob Ciara’s reason for dating outside of her race”

Shut up, Jesse!

RadHouse don't have the apartment together anymore. That's why he was saying that he still paid part of the rent for 9mths. Hubs had said in some other interview or pod that she now lives there on her own and that she talked the landlord into giving her a price reduction on the rent going forward. I guess the rental company/owners thought that the exposure on the show and through her influencer career was a good enough exposure to justify the drop in rent. She didn't however state what the new lower rent was.

I really like Gaby and want to see more of her. I think she has a great personality and is vulnerable and interesting. The season was dominated by Carl and Lindsey understandably. They spent way too much time on Kyle and Amanda. They can’t stand each other, we know. I’m bored of that story line.

What happens on the next season of SH? It's going to be very interesting

I agree with what y’all said about West. Disappointed in his actions. With that said, Ciara was being naive about the situation. She needs to learn her worth and who she is and hopefully this experience will teach her that, if the Austin situation didn’t. After listening to Ciara’s speech, she should slow way down and not rush to jump into bed with someone. A man who truly loves her and values her will want that purity for her, and for himself. A man who says he cares but can’t wait to sleep with her is just using her for her body. And she’s so beautiful she needs to extra-protect herself from these situations. I wish the best for her.

Carl is showing his true colors. He can’t help it leaking out. Between hurting Paige by whispering that in her ear to demoting Kyle to flower boy and blaming that on Lindsey the guy is really fake. Yuk! Lindsey has not ever been the nicest person and it’s expected, but Carl is not as nice a guy as he wants us to believe. He is a sneaky SOB. The guy whispers to Paige that Lindsey is trying to sabatoge your photo shoot. What’s the point of that? What another weak creepy move. If he put as much effort in getting a job he could be a millionaire . I hate how much I care about this. It grossed me out .

That was shitty of Carl to do that to Lindsey

Hey bros are you still recapping rhonj? Been dying to hear the recaps for the last few episodes

Don't Jermaine it up! 📢

What did she see in that Dufus anyway?

I like Gabby over Danielle. Dani is becoming to much of a horn dog ( Tacky ). Gabby is not desperate & is classy. 😊

Does Wes actually think he could do better🤯 he threw away a beautiful kind intelligent girl for what! Some one night stands with fan girls🤦🏻‍♀️ he’s 30! and wouldn’t get a second glance in the real world 🤷🏻‍♀️

Love the Valley Done with VPR, just tired of it. More Kristen is great TV Summer House, I'm team Lindsay after watching the season. Nothing wrong with West not wanting to commit but leading Ciara on was not a good look. I just want to see the girls get a long. Paige can be messy. Carl needs to always make Lindsay look bad, he hates looking bad.

Simply put West is a poser and a fraud. He latched on to Ciara bc he was insecure and lacking in self confidence. He did not trust that he could come into this house, with this group of people, and stand on his own. And he’s right. On his own, West is uninteresting, awkward, and lacks real substance. His presence on the show truly shows, as the cast has said, that it’s hard to find guys for the show. He truly should have been a pass. Ciara I feel bad for you but I’m mad that you couldn’t see through this user. And gurrrl he’s not even cute. AND he did the same thing with Jessie. He latched on to him hard. Jessie came in and stood ten toes down and on his own. West felt like he hit the jackpot and was willing to do anything to stay in the house including break Ciara’s heart. He came for the fame but what he didn’t realize is that fame and being phony costs and it time to pay the piper.

moving forward for Ciara, she needs to be less afraid and more in control. I'm tired of women claiming to be victims. They were both trying to whittle each other down over the summer. She saying she doesn't want to be serious without out a commitment and he said clearly he's afraid of commitment while giving signals of commitment. They were BOTH doing a luring dance hoping the other caves. Here's the game ( and yes, it is a game) Ciara should have played. Instead of snuggling with Wes at night. She should have been like he's CLEARLY telling me his afraid of commitment. I am going to date and prance around extremely hot guys in front of him. Show him how desired she is and he would have fell in line, worry that he would miss out. If he didn't fall in line, she didn't waste her time putting her heart out there on the wrong person. Dating is not putting notches on your bed post. It's dating. Enough, women need to LISTEN to what men are saying and stop making excuses for them hoping they will change their mind. Nick Viall made a great point, men fall in love when they miss you. Ciara is TOO hot to be so weak. Girl, step up.

Bravo’s Bill Buckner. Big miss West.

👍🏻❤

Jermaine is making Andy happy 😉😉 that has to be what it is

Guys. Maybe you're reading this wrong. Maybe Carl mentioned it innocently and Paige took it the wrong way. What was said didn't sound like it was a big deal.

Alex Baskin is the senior producer for both VPR and The Valley and Jeremiah has worked with him the entire time. All the VPR cast speak very highly of him so I don’t think he’s the problem. It’s possible they moved him because VPR is on pause and he needs to work

PLEASE CONSIDER: I HAVE to say this .... I love you guys and am going to watch anyways buuuuuuutttttt I hate the spit bottle and dip on camera 🤢🤢 I only say this in love 🖤