What’s the downside of the negative fuel trims if your going to stick to meth and water mix for every day use?

Hello Kern. I've been doing Water meth injection over 10 years and have run it on several cars of my own, and tons of customer cars. So I'm sorta qualified to share some experience here. I'm really opposed to running 100% water before the intercooler. For the majority of users out there some methanol in the mix is recommended. The reason for the meth is not for fuelling or "octane", but for distribution. Let me explain why. Pure water tends to flash to steam right off the turbo but then condensates into larger droplets by the time it exits the intercooler. This is because the intercooler is still doing its job and cools anything that passes through it. These larger droplets have increased "inertia", and find it harder to distribute equally into the manifold runners. If exit temps at the intercooler is about 45C, for instance, at sea level pressures water will boil at 100C, but will start to vaporize/evaporate at much cooler temps. The 45C would be ok but there is boost in these pipes so it is harder to vaporize as is expected with an increase in pressure ( Raoult's Law ). Volute injection (of the turbo) works lovely when the mixture has a high methanol percentage, even if there is an intercooler. The W/Meth droplets are smaller and are distributed more evenly into each runner. There is however 1 exception. For systems with intercoolers like the B58 the runners are spread out over the intercooler and as such distribution is less of a concern. Also, I'd be comfortable running methanol if the fuel trims are working correctly. It's actually doing what it supposed to do I believe - Pulling fuel for the decreased detected lambda. The best approach for this, of course, is to get it custom tuned, or, run just enough meth to stay at 25% trims. Also, please join our fb WM group at called "water methanol injection". We welcome anyone with experience to share and debate setups/experiments.

Tittles accurate and I haven’t even watched the video

Thanks, I learned something new about meth today, started following you a few months back and I have to say great content. Can confirm in Europe ethanol is really hard to get and is not common at all and most prefer using large quantities of meth which ends up blowing their engines. I drive an n54 can't wait to get my hands on a b58

Thank you. The best video for me so far.

Good video great advice appreciate it

Thanks soooo much for being you cuz you're awesome!! I live in a cold climate (colorado) so i'm pretty sure i'm gonna hafta have some methanol in it or else it's gonna be a solid block of ice... what's the lowest amount of methanol you recommend so it's as close to just water for the cooling effect?? will that low amount affect the fuel delivery in an adverse way?? thanks again man!! truly 'preciate ya!!

Awesome channel I’ve learned a lot. However, I have a much older chassis. lots of your information is effective in the newer vehicles. Currently my street car is an SUV. I own a e70 X5, N55. I’ve been running a PS2 turbo, air to air Wagner intercooler, precision Race works coil packs for a couple of years now with Stock high-pressure and low pressure fuel pumps (I have no desire to run port injection due to complexity, I’m interested in keeping it simple ) I’ve known for quite some time Water injection is affective. commonly used in the 80s in the 90s turbo cars….yes im that old lol. I thought about water / methanol in the past but have not been motivated to move forward on it. Until watching your informative Episode (you cannot only spray methanol). The way you presented the information is fantastic. Now I’m motivated to do water injection. not because I have a desire to run an incredible amount of boost. I want to improve reliability And longevity. what’s your opinion on using water injection on early n55. Any information would be greatly appreciated Thank you.

Cant wait to get my b58 😊

Hi Kern, what water only injection kit do you recomend? The BMS one sprays at the throttle plate I was hoping to spray before that!

I was wondering if i’m running about 450hp on my 340i xdrive would pistons be a concern? i’m new to the platform. I been watching your videos for about a week now and I don’t regret stumbling across your channel.

Super interesting

I literally installed my meth kit on my ms3 1 week ago using 30-40%meth and the rest water so this is going to be helpful

What about running 50/50 meth water for a stock n/a coyote 5.0 motor, solely for the purpose of keeping the valves clean? Running e85 gunked up my valves real bad. Edit: awesome video and great job explaining everything!

What about a turbo car thats runing 12 afr and you want to lower it to the 11 or 11.5 with the meth injection with different nozzle sizes?

Here is an old corvette forum and Julio from Alky controls explains 100% meth vs water meth. Personally I use 100% meth and would never use water. Here is the explanation: The first is temperature. Water has a flash of 180 df. methanol flashes at 70 df(degree's farenheit) So if the air coming across the nozzle does not have enough temperature to flash the liquid, the liquid being shot it is carried to the back of the intake manifold and uneven distribution is what happens next. Meaning the rear cylinders get liquid and the fronts dont. The analogy I use is brake cleaner. If you get a hot rotor and shoot brake cleaner on it.. it disappears immediately. If you shoot water.. it stays wet. So every PSI is approx 11 df. at 10 PSi your at 110+ambient. If its 30 degree's outside, you run 10 PSI=140.. enough for 50/50 mix to work. Not enough temp for water as it needs 180 df. Now what happens is you have 50/50 mix.. and run an IC.. now you spray into air that has been cooled.. doesnt disperse correctly.. and whalla.. tuning problem. Problem magnifies itself as you crank up the volume shot in. So this is why straight meth is typically used.. as its easy to make 70 degree's.. and keeps from distribution problems. Next problem.. as the water volume increases, the nozzles go down in size, and the pressure goes up. As the liquid has to be broken up as finely as possible. So it has a chance of disbursing into the air properly. So nozzles used with water injection are like M1=1 gph at 100 PSI, nozzles used with meth M15=15 GPH as you can crank it in and get results. Water injection works.. as does water/methanol.. as does straight methanol. A lot has to do with the strategy of what your working with temperature wise and what your goals are. For just cooling.. use straight water, mix, straight meth. But understand the IAT the engine is dealing with to choose your fluid. Lastly.. water leans out the motor as it takes up space in the combustion chamber. meth richens it out. Mix still richens.. but then we get the flip flop of temp and goal. Vette's in the grand scheme of things run lower IAT's becuase of boost pressures run. Some start running out of fuel system.. some have bad octane like Cali 91.. some dont like constantly retuning becuase outside air temps changed.. This is why straight meth rocks on them. The only down side to straight meth is that its harder on the pump and the system has to be setup for it.

I’ve been using water meth and I’m tuned by Steven at wedge. Im also at a hot place so that’s why I went with water/meth

Don’t go with prometh’s solid stainless lines they leak, boils the mix, and will need to be removed if you need room to wrench.

Hey @kern417 I have a f90 I’m currently building. And I’m looking into some type of injection. Looking for more boost gains, hoping cooling will come with upgraded intercoolers. Live in upstate ny summers can be hot and cold lol I’ve been stuck on this for awhile to go wmi or not

Hey kern, I have a f90 I’m currently building. And I’m looking into some type of injection. Looking for more boost gains, hoping cooling will come with upgraded intercoolers. I’ve been stuck on this for awhile to go wmi or not

Can you do a video about Port meth injection

Expensive but i spray nos 12" away from pre-turbo

Is there a kit that exists for water injection primarily?

Is there any benefit to running cpi wmi with the JB4? Same goal, cooling not fueling. Have the whole kit just been iffy about routing thru the jb4 only for a better tuning solution to release for post 6/20.

I would think that with the meth injection, your fuel mapping should be adjusted to ensure proper afr.

Nice video, you couldn’t be more up to date with my built👍 Would a good custom tune works with CP WMI or i should stay with water only? Thanks for that subject🙌

I agree with 95% of this video except for the running 100% water. Based on my testing on boosted ford stuff (different platform I know but ecu trims fuel the same) you want to target roughly 10-15% of total fuel needed at wot for your water/meth injection. I've found that this % provides the benefits of the cooling and increased octane of the fuel being burned while bring a low enough % that the ECU can still trim fuel to target lambda AFR. In my testing I saw a 20hp Increase with a 70/30 meth/water injection with no additional timing. So I think spraying a 50/50 or 70/30 mixture is great as long as the nozzle is appropriately size for the fuel consumption demands of the setup.

Not to mention the octane rating of straight H20. can’t compress it….therefore you can’t have predetonation 😉

@5:55 Is there a charge pipe with inlet for water injection close to the turbo in the market?

Isn’t there issues associated with cylinder 6 using charge pipe meth? Cylinder 6 getting the weakest amount of draw and possibly leaning out?

Hi mate, im in the UK methanol is half the price of ethanol here .can i mix methanol and petrol in the tank and put an E30 tune on the motor?

Quick question. Let say i run E50 mixed and i use like OTS bootmod3 and if i want to switch back to like a 91 octane ots. At what point of E50 level in the tank that i can top it off with 91 and safety use the 91 octane ots. Thanks

S55 engines ? Is it ok without turning? I mean air to water cooling, do. I need to tune it to rum 100% ethanol?

If i can run direct port wmi mixture methanol water 50/50 is safe? Or i only using with water charge pipe water?

Hey bro I have the BMS chargepipe with built in ports for WMI. I am planning to go HPFP and turbo route rather than port. Since data shows heat exchanger upgrade doesn’t improve IATs much, I’d rather spend that money on something more efficient. Do you think solely water injection is the best bet for my M340 (that will be controlled by a HOBB switch.) I already have intake upgrade as well. So water injection instead of heat exchanger? Or is heat exchanger not really worth it lol. Just want your input brotha

How would 50/50 help perform on a N/A engine?

What about on a car with a supercharger like the Z06? I can't get any answers on my harrop supercharged e92 m3

Hey Kern, is it possible to use port injection for 100% meth and CPI for water injection to help cooling together ? Have you seen both systems run together with a custom tune ?

"if youre planning on using meth" lmao

You have it backwards. Methanol does the majority of charge air cooling because it evaporates more easily. Water does the cooling in the combustion chamber. It takes the higher heat of the combustion chamber to change the state of water from liquid to gas. The change of state absorbs the heat.

You R the "Meth Whisperer"... (that may have not been the best choice of words:). Thank you for the video. You RoCk

I run meth. Have NEVER tuned to it ever..... Make a 1000 whp on 93 octane with meth with my Turbo Mustang. With E85 its just dumb cause E85 cools the fuel even more.