Big fan of the theories thank you for your efforts

Killmonger

MaleKeith of course

Killmonger in Black Panther , because Wakanda took everything away from him and T’Chaka abandoned him along with a dead father and his father chose to left his son in order to serve in Wakanda

@@strangestudio3155 💯 he was

This really did shore up his character perfectly.

TFATWS had great character development for Zemo, Bucky and John imo.

*vials

Also do like that he hesitated a little bit, even questioning Sam about it as a way to test his moral standards. Zemo despite being royalty is still very grounded, he’s not at all egotistical which is the main reason he’s being able to win the most out of all of the other villains

It’s not character development at all. Zemo’s character development in the show is when he doesn’t try to kill himself anymore.

Well Said Dom

I laughed so fucking hard at that scene

They were talking about marvin gaye...

@@calixtobrilliantes4435 I watched the entire series and I'm well aware that Sam was referring to Marvin Gaye at that moment. Zemo is out of line, but he's right.

@@DominickRuocco yep he's right.. I was just kidding around wellplayed dude

Totally agree While DC fits in "Black and White" category, DC still has it Own way with 5 shades of Dark and light Batman is light in the dark Superman is Light in the Light Red Hood is inbetween Darkseid is darkness in the dark Lex Luthor is darkness in the light

no one bad is ever truly bad and no one good is ever truly good

Morality is nothing but varying shades of grey.

@@Elamado97 and it's a Loki quote which was perfect for this moment

Aaaah, the short-sightedness of a neuro-typical ... "There is colour between Black and White." No, colour is nothing more than lies. Yes, but ... NO!!!! YES: you agree. ... but ...: is the beginning of the lie to make things less wrong. The "colouring of the truth". It is that simple.

You need to see the movie “Rush”. I think that’s his best performance. Made out to be the villian and you cheer for him. Amazing actor.

​@@grimyentertainment238agreed this movie makes everyone a fan of him 😅 (also Thor is in it lol)

Did you see him in "Schule" as one of the students "Markus Baasweiler"?

I remember a young Daniel in "Goodbye Lenin", a very interesting movie. I never thought he would ever be part of Marvel, it was ideal

Good and interesting call.

Oh, that's a good one.

Obviously.

I have never really thought of Zeno was a villain.

Best way to look at Zemo is, he is a Chaotic Neutral.

For their pleasure

I always hate karli morgentot

He would have had sympathy until he murdered innocent people.

He has completed it so he chose to go back.

I totally agree

Was Zemo effective? Yes. However, did he truly cared about the innocent he killed? The apology to black panther or that other guy, doesn't truly prove anything. He still involved and killed many innocent lives, and for what? Essentially only for _the end justyfys the means._ Great, so he acted exactly, like Stark and the others, making him only a hypocrit.

I mean ultimately cap was right because when world destroying thanos showed up they all came together

@@jeffreytorres2539 well, that's from the Avengers perspective. Did you ever consider the fact that Thanos may have been right? I really believe that Thanos was, or at least he thought he was, the hero of "Infinity War". He really believed that what he did was for the "greater good", and he sacrificed EVERYTHING to get it. What Thanos did, did make some people's lives better. Namely, Karlie and the Flag Smashers. So, from their perspective, Thanos was a hero. It all depends on your point of view.

Bring those receipts! There's so much gray in the marvel universe. Tony Stark created a deadly artificial intelligence and he did not suffer any legal consequences because of it. You know what I think we should all just recognize that Tony Stark really is the big bad of the marvel universe.

@@kb420ps for people who don't have family everybody else shouldn't lose their family because you lost yours... I say this as someone who lost my favorite person in the world I was shattered and it was precisely before endgame which made that movie hurt. None of that justifies everybody else losing theirs their are infinite planets why can't we terraform one force their to be more inevitable space because honestly your going to keep running into Thanos' problem because population basically doubles every generation so it would only take 20 years to be right back at the same issue that Thanos had.. You would have to snap away 90 percent of the population but leave enough mix of different skills that they can still run their buildings

@@dbird2997 bro intention is very important now I agree he should be liable however to pentene that we didn't know he was making these to be able to respond to threats around the world to help people is ridiculous.

Killmonger also had really good points :)

There is nothing right about thanos plan. It is stupid.

@@showmeyourmoves8551 yeah he was stoopid, he xould have just doubled the amount of resources

@@capcorn7872 You can’t change the laws of physics. A planet is only so large. Adding more planets throws everything out of whack. It’s like sculpting. You can easily remove material than add it. Again, you can argue Thanos’ methods, but he remains a sympathetic character who lost a lot to get to where he was.

@@woodcider there is a stone called reality stone so how does changing physics too much farfetched? Thanos is not symphatetic at all. His backstory is his planet died is not personal at all since we dont see his family dying like at all.

Killmonger is a seesaw, flipping from oppressed to oppressor without question, without realization that he's only a continuation of the hate. That's why what Black Panther did was fix what Killmonger tried to achieve, finding balance not by vengeance and power, but by financially supporting and providing opportunities to people who would have so little of them.

Great observation

Also 2018 Thanos won as well and got to watch the sun rise on a "grateful universe"

your good point shows that you don't need super people to stop other super people. a brilliant strategist can bring stronger individuals to their knees. that is assuming there is a flaw to exploit, which there usually is. a similar thing happens in marvel's "what if" animated series. T'challa somehow is also star lord. he convinces Thanos that there is a way to create enough resources for everyone so that everyone doesn't have to be killed for there to be enough resources.

true, but zemo divided and weakened them first.

I really appreciated you pointing out that having a good point is not the same as being right. One of the greatest difficulties the human race faces is failing to make such distinctions.

@@infinitepossibilities-anyt1488 And? In a real fight you do everything to win. If you aren't strong you have to be smart.

It's exactly reasons like this that I've been wanting some kind of story about what an insurance agency would look like in a world like the MCU.

@@GiantButterKnife That insurance company exists in the comics. They’re called “Damage Control.” The MCU version of them showed up at the beginning of Spiderman: Homecoming. IRL their premiums would have to be insane. Nobody could afford insurance against “random acts of superhuman/alien/magic/robotic destruction” and superheroes would spend the majority of their time rebuilding shit they helped destroy. OR much of the world would just constantly be sitting in obliterated ashes. Yes. Comics are stupid.

Not to mention that their going back in time lead to the events of Loki which ultimately unleashed the Multiverse. The only threat The Avengers weren't directly responsible for was the 2012 battle of New York. Everything else from Ultron on, they were responsible for creating.

When they’d collected the stones the next step should have been consulting governments. “We can bring everyone back, how are we going to do this?” There was no immediate need to rush to bring them back. Indeed if they’d waited, once thanks them arrived the snap could have bought people back and got rid of thanos

What happens if someone reappeared right where someone else was standing, or right in front of a moving vehicle

I always felt the fact that they were told just to agree to the accords was in itself a test of their willingness to accept such an accord to begin with. Imagine having to negoiate a treaty with superbeings who could wipe the floor with you into submission to a contract. They are by default in a superior position.

That’s my thought for the Geneva convention and the UN. It’s bunch of political crap that knowing every country party would be a nightmare to understand. Is like have a democratic or republican explain there vision to worker’s party of Brazil and the labor party in Britain. So much political drama no wonder we are about to butt heads in Ukrainian war.

I sympathized why Tony Stark had a change of heart despite being directly responsible for a lot of stuff in the MCU. But I couldn't blame Steve Rogers not signing those accords. Of course, those accords were about 1500 plus convoluted pages of gibberish. And like today's modern government amendments, people are asked to vote yes or sign such accords and proposed laws. To sort of trust the wordings. Even good lawyers would have challenges navigating through all that.

I would LOVE that, too. Daniel Bruhl is the world's best actor, and he needs more good roles.

@@lumpyspacecadet David Strathairn is the world's best actor. But Bruhl has made a good start.

Saw Daniel brühl on the Jason Bourne movies for the first time, never relised he would end up such a good actor❤️

@@dominichamer8929 man david straham aint no patrick stewart but i agree daniel b is a top tier actor

You are not

He even won a dance competition, when there was no dance competition. Check out those Baron Zemo moves!

Ok, “world’s most talented actor” might be going a bit too far lol. daniel bruhl is great though.

Is that you Daniel?

brilliantly lucky? Lucky that he is a scripted character or none of his "brilliant" plans would ever have worked cause they are born of stupid logic. Imagine blaming the firefighters for the fire.

@@The482075dancing with the stars MCU version. Zemo and Hela versus Star Lord and Gamora.

Exactly. I’m saddened that Screenscrush would be so unfairly reductive to Sams speech…

Exactly

100% agreed. "Who's in the room with you when you're making these decisions, is it more people like you or is it the people who are gonna be affected?" was pretty solid. I loved that part.

@@iamgroot2810 if Governments and Institutions kept that principle in mind this world would be a better place almost over night.....

That's not a solution Quite the opposite

i feel like ppl dont like it bc its too real, the themes withing r currently occuring around the world

@@emmaking8596 The Falcon and the Winter Soldier is my favorite post End Game series. The secret that Bucky hid from even Steve Rogers after he told Wilson that a black super soldier existed before Steve Rogers became Captain America and how he was treated paints a most likely real picture of things despite the series being a story of fiction.

You guys gotta do better

They might agree on some things as long as T'Challa gets to mediate.

@@justakenyan1372 sounds like it could be a dope stark trek next gen ep

O

I don't think they would agree. Thanos is the ultimate problem in Zemo's POV. He his almost a god, megalomaniac and doesn't give a shit about everyone else except Gamora.

@@MiguelAngelLS no love for Nebula lol

"The king must die" (part of the circular story of Thucydides)

Not to mention that he blamed Cap because he wanted a suit of armor around the world. Wasn’t that what Vision was supposed to basically be as his replacement for the mistakes of Ultron? He got his Vision so how was Cap a liar. Every time I watch that movie I’m yelling at the tv “he was their fighting just like u. It wasn’t his fault u hopped on a flying donut or that u managed to sign him into being a fugitive/criminal.”

@@occheermommy they really did create a dumb genius with tony stark

@@occheermommy I think the liar bit was about Cap covering up Bucky's involvement in the murder of Tony's parents, but I guess it could have been something else. At the very least, it was a lie by omission.

This is one of the limitations of live action movies. The hero only meets their villain for a few brief moments and then we'll never see them meet again.

Which ties into the argument between Supervision (to possibly create new agendas for the governments of the world, that benefit them and not the heros, giving them the greatest advantage in the world) v. Not Supervision (the opportunity for several superhuman and vigilantes making decisions and committing calateral damage that negative impacts "the little people.") He had briefly discuss this in earlier in the video.

@@SpFlash1523 Super Vision, huh 😂

@@SpFlash1523 i mean to be fair, what about the governments themselves, who are also technically unsupervised yet can still make catastrophic decisions that hurt many people in the long run anyway? When were the people who were hurt by these decisions ever asked about them? I’m surprised no one even brought up the fact that the Flag Smashers were also standing up for people who were thrown to the side and had to steal food that the government was harboring for no supposedly good reason other than “you don’t understand how complex this is.” FUCKING EXPLAIN IT, IS IT THAT HARD??? If there is one thing F&WS did right it was painting the villains and even the heroes grayer than just black and white. Granted Zemo was right about some things, he was also wrong about others - he also bombed the U.N. and killed plenty of people working for government organizations; he works with criminal organizations that are also without government supervision yet function on the scale of an entire nation; he’s rich as hell while people like the flag smashers were helping people who had nothing. I don’t buy this whole “he’s right!” because the reality is there was no one who was wholly correct - everyone in the show has their own agendas that may have good and noble means to it, yet it’s twisted in a way that justifies their actions. The Flag Smashers want to help people and believe violence and murder are the only solution to the problem. Zemo believes super humans are supremacists and need to be stopped, while also taking will into his own hands and committing the same atrocities he’s supposedly trying to make a point against. Walker is one of the exact extremes that Zemo worried about, yet again the people in charge that supposedly know better in this situation, still just gave him a “slap on the wrist.” Flawed arguments swayed by reasonable but deceptive logic.

@@averyjenson thank you!!! I think I was the only one who watched the flag smasher more than just terrorist, the goverment give them homes, jobs, and oportunities to be better outside their poor countries But as soon as the blip they were kickout without an explanation even tho they were the ones who keep their economy stable for 5 years, of course they'll be angry and no one wants to listen to them. Obviously killing some senators was not the right move, but the rest of their crimes I can understand it. Stealing food for refugees and inmigrants it's a really sad situation maybe because I'm from latin america and much of the time "riots that ended up in fire" it's the only way to be heard just in 2019 seven of 13 countries in latin america were in protest fights and a lot of fire for the injustice

@@averyjenson lol the flag smashers were dumb as bricks, they shouldn't need an explanation and neither should you. its so simple even my little sister understood it and she is 12. that food was for other people, there are only so much resources and (more importantly) the infrastructure to move and store it. people had to work to make it too and need compensation. you can't just take what you want or move where you want to move to, because that affects other people and doing so literally makes you a marauding brigand, a barbarian who goes around pillaging because they feel entitled to it. like vikings, huns and pirates. literally worse than imperialists, at least they build infrastructure (and other minor compensation) when they leach off other people. it wasn't food hoarded for no apparent reason, we are explicitly told it was stuff for helping the blippers who returned to a world where they no longer had jobs or houseing. ie refugees making up almost half the planet's population (or atleast the vast majority that would have been unable to re-inter society in the short period of time since their return, it takes a while for economies to adjust to such large population changes). they were stealing from the poor and disenfranchised who did nothing wrong, all because they felt entitled as they had been given some property that they didn't earn themselves 5 years ago. the flag smashers were representing the people who directly benefitted from the deaths of billions of people and now don't want to give up their privileged lifestyle now that it is not sustainable. to the point they actively and violently steal from refugees and the systems helping them. they weren't helping people who had nothing, they were helping people who had to give back their borrowed wealth and didn't like it. hell they wanted things to go back to the way things were when there was only half the population on the planet, sorry but thats just extremely dumb (or extremely selfish/evil as anyone with a brain would realize the implication is to kill off the blippers/half the population, especially since the flag smashers are using violent means). simply put the flag smashers deserved to be treated far worse by the show than they actually were. they should have been treated like hydra or thanos (evil people who try and justify, mostly for the sake of their own conscious, evil selfish acts) and the fact you seem to empathize with them is worrying.

"Who are you?" "I am...Zemo."

@@lordodysseus Why? "BECAUSE I'M ZEMO!"

@@thomasbennett0 zemo was right. why? BECAUSE IM BATMAN

So is Thanos in infinity war

Zemo is a great character even one my favourite in the MCU , he is some a antihero

I once read this post of someone saying: "You know you are an adult once the Joker makes more sense than Batman." That comment stuck with me.

I really hope the MCU doesn't go that direction when they eventually introduce mutants. The allegory of mutants with unpredictable (at times uncontrollable) powers standing in for oppressed minorities just doesn't hold up that well under any amount of scrutiny.

It's going to be tricky to introduce a whole new breed of beings (mutants) in a world where superheroes are seen as celebrities.

Both Iron Man 2 and Iron Man 3 dealt with Hero Worship. In IM2, it is specifically about tearing down Tony as the ultimate hero, not just by Ivan Drago, but also Hammer, the U.S. Government and more, while everyone else loved him. He had incredible leeway in anything and everything he wanted to do. In IM3, you meet several characters - including the villain - who are the way they are either because they worship Tony as their hero, or prop him up as their ultimate obstacle - their villain. All the while, imposing a vulnerability - a flaw - in the hero with his PTSD from the Battle of New York. Captain America and the Winter Soldier and Captain America: Civil War, both also deal with Hero Worship but in a different way. Instead of it being about a Hero that can do anything, it is about a Hero that can inspire anyone. Steve inspires Shield Loyalists to fight off Hydra sleeper agents, even though many of them were friends and colleagues for years. Meanwhile in Civil War, he inspired a team of renegades, to sacrifice themselves so that he could get away and stop the villain - even when he himself didn't like the idea. He even inspires Tony in the end, who, while he clearly hasn't forgiven Steve, he does at least respect him, enough to brush off Secretary Ross when Steve busts the renegade Avengers out (a similar reaction that Adrian The Vulture has with Peter Spider-man). If Iron Man teaches us the dangers of Hero Worship, Captain America teaches us why we do it anyway.

@@felixfeliciano7011 all of these people that you mentioned are people who were in the same industry circles with the Avengers or had working relationships with them. I'm talking about the general public like Zemo's family or just your average everyday person. The only person I can recall that was your average everyday person was Harley Keener. But he was a child. None of the movies have addressed how hero-worship can make it impossible for the team to function because it would be impossible for them to never have any consequences to their actions. It's that concept of "you can't please all the people all the time" that I'm referring to.

@@micah06v8 I would agree with that. In the first avengers movie you have the government guy saying it was their mess when it was the government that got them into it. In civil war you have Ross saying all of these Events were their fault when conceivably the only one truly their fault was Ultron. Yes they may have been In Lagos without government approval but had they let that virus go how many millions would it have killed. Yes they needed some accountability but many times they were cleaning up other peoples messes. Idt the sokovia accords were the answer but I don’t think letting them run wild or blaming them for things they weren’t responsible for was the answer either. It’s like when people blamed soldiers for problems the government made. There is only so much they can do

exactly because when you watch spiderman far from home, wandavision and falcon and the winter solder, thats when you realise it was pure chaos.....especially the hospital scene in wandavision

Also playing with time is always dangerous, Thanos coming and potentially killing everyone was surprisingly the least bad part of their plan The worst part was the events that lead to Kangs release. Granted no one could have seen that coming, but still nothing good comes from playing with time. What if… kind of showed what new dangers have been released now that the multiverse has been opened. My sister said well at least we have multiple universes in the chance one’s destroyed true until you get someone like Kang or spider-verse’s kingpin. People who can travel in between universes. Then one universe’s problem becomes the problem of many universes

First, they didn't know it would work. It was an attempt. Second, what did you expect that info to do? For the population to stand around and wait for the snapped to come back?

Blatant disregard for unintended consequences is pretty much a tentpole of the MCU.

Hi can someone pls tell me why th iron man snapped when hlk Alr snaped

I couldn’t agree more. I said the exact same thing. Both are my favorite Marvel characters. Both are incredibly complex characters and are not 2 dimensional.

Agree!

I concur.. also, depends on who you call a "villain".. everyone is the villain from the other's point of view.

@@ahs3129Exactly! I couldn't have said any better than you just did!

Did Loki want to rule the world and he killed a bunch of innocent people? Yup, he's a villain...

He's basically a more successful Billy Butcher, if you think about it.

@@ShadowSonic2 Shit, you're right. Especially after Season 3, Zemo would be a "good"/"healthy" version of Butcher.

That's how you write good villains and sadly Marvel kinda fucks up villains most of the time.

@@B20C0 For every Zemo they always have a Malekith lying around.

I love that movie. Super underrated.

Scorsese said the MCU wasn’t cinema, and you respond by praising the storytelling that’s happening on TV 🤣

@@spewter I think enough examples of Cinema were quoted and what goes on TV by Marvel is obviously an extension of the first one.

@@spewter you sound like you were just born yesterday.

The Infinity Saga was a 23 episode story, which is the same number of parts as a US network TV show. Scorsese wasn’t being pretentious. He raised a legit question about the nature of cinema and how the MCU belongs to, and differs from, that. Fan boys, however, aren’t interested in the study of film as an art form and in their ignorance they take Scorsese’s remarks as an insult. This video wasn’t even about Scorsese and yet here we are 🤣

Totally agree. Scorsese is one of my favorites, Taxi Driver & Good Fellas are on my Top 10 movies of all time list. But a blanket statement like "superhero movies are ruining cinema" came off like a jealous, shallow comment from a cranky old man.

*Revengers

Would've loved to see then two work together somehow

One catch Killmonger is a supremacist. He wanted the herb and the power of Wakanda to do what he needs. And he is more villian than an anti-hero because he betrays and kills his own allies.(more evident in his what if episode)Zemo is trustworthy ally he may be annoying but he never betrayed sam and bucky. He helped them to a great extent.

@@batmanthecapedcrusader3916 He did it all to help oppressed black people around the world his methods were horrible but he was doing it for a good reason he did the wrong things for the right reasons

@@ThatGuyEclipz330 I would love to see zemo and killmonger work together but I don't think that would be possible because their motivations and goals are different , killmonger's motivations are related to racism that to zemo's motivation are related to what are the threats of superheroes in our real world , but I gotta admit they are my favorite villans including Thanos in the MCU

@@Talve Oh please,take away the shield that is the color of his skin and killmonger would just be another racist.

There's a theory going around that Tony didn't HAVE to die in Endgame....but Dr Strange deliberately set him up to sacrifice himself because he determined Tony was just too dangerous to be left alone.

I always said Civil War was a metaphor for our government. Neither SIDE is right...parts of what they say are but instead of compromising they end up further apart.

I generally love Marvel movies but I like them even more when they take their movies or tv shows in more political way that's why I love captain America the winter Soldier, captain America civil war and Falcon and the winter Soldier

i still don't understand how is he a villian in this show, to be honest, am i the only one who is rooting thoughout the series.

"In Cold Blood: without feeling or mercy; ruthlessly."

So long as he was unarmed, it was in cold blood

@@nakachinjah7240 He isn't the villain, even the director of the show after seeing all the hate against him said you all will end up loving him by the end of the show. He's a morally grey character, just like Bucky and Zemo.

Depends on how many people get powers. If there are only a handful of heroes, there'd be no way to make a career out of it. Whether or not they'd subject themselves to the law (from whatever country they come from) is also arguable, and depends on the person and how much power they have.

Zemo is an indirect product of the Avengers. He would have never been a bad guy if it wasn’t for the “good guys” destroying his town/people. The Avengers avenged (taking revenge for an offense) the people who Loki killed & his attempt to take over earth in the first movie. In the second one they try to fix their own mistakes. Kinda ironic because this leads to Civil War in which Zemo tries to tear them apart and actually makes him an avenger. There is no true good/evil. It is just about all perspective. In order for “good” to exist there needs to be “evil” ☯️ when things get off scale there will be a clash/conflict to rebalance it. “With great powers comes great responsibility” which what makes these superheroes (especially Marvel) very relatable to us who enjoy them so much. In the end we as human can achieve a lot of great things but we are also our own biggest enemy because we have a tendency to get ahead of ourselves and do more harm to others than we realized.

okay i think you threw a sociopath word veeery loosley here without really knowing what that means. sociopaths do not feel empathy or remorse for their actions. They have no sense of right and wrong. They often do bad things because it brings them joy, they just like to hurt people. Zemo explictly said in civil war he doesn't want to hurt anyone, but if there's no other option he will. He knows what he did was wrong , and he apologized for it (the clips from those scence are in the video) he never hurts others for fun, he has strong sense of right and wrong so no, Zemo is definetly not a sociopath.

@@gabibukadajebucha I know what a sociopath is. They are someone that is born normal but close off their emotions and are able use/mistreat others without remorse...exactly the way Zemo did with the Avengers and the way he murdered that man in the cargo crate/secret lab, execution style. PS He also murdered multiple people in Civil War. His words that he didn't want to hurt anyone mean nothing when his actions show him repeatedly murdering people, without remorse.

@@davidm4566 Zemo is not a good person but, not being good doesn’t equal with being a sociopath. Zemo shows remorse for killing T’chaka and using Bucky, he doesn’t show remorse for destroying the avengers because they were responsible for his family death, or for killing dr. Nigel because the man was a mad scientist, an eugenic who thought himself to be a god and would keep making super soldier serum if Zemo didin’t kill him. i’m not saying what he did was good but i don’t think it’s very different from when heroes kill villains. and like i said, sociopaths hurt people for their pleasure and because they think they can, because they’re better than everyone else. Zemo exactly like he said didn’t enjoy killing, but he thought it was nessecery to his plan. but why am i even writing all of this, everything is laid down in this video so watch again i guess

Well, like most of the evil in the MCU comes directly from Stark, soooo...

Which Season/Episode, Cap?

Its probably gonna happen but I wonder if a guy who dislikes super humans would join a team of super humans? And what is Zemo's specialty gonna be on that team, if he's not leading it? Because it seems lie Val is.

@@user-hf2dr7sh4y then we get avengers and mutants all mixed up in teams all over the world to protect the peace. West coast avengers has a mutant in it like Wolverine while X-Caliber has a non mutant superhero in it like Captain Britain, etc... and Hulk goes insane and takes over CA and Ross sends wolverine to hunt him down.

@@user-hf2dr7sh4y Yup, start clearing dead money and move forward with new actors for young avengers and then bring in the big old stars for some greatest hits of all time CGI de aged avengers on veteran scale salaries. The time cop avengers that fight all of kangs bullshit can help with that. Faster they burn through it the faster they can reboot in 2037.

"It was Agatha All Along"

The 7th stone the truth stone

How true that statement is made to be.*

That's what makes Marvel writing so good. Many of the "villains" have absolutely valid points, they just go about executing them the wrong way.