Chan Master Sheng-yen was a very well-respected teacher who wrote a large number of very good books, that do a good job of explaining traditional Chan practices and literature. I recommend starting with his book “Hoofprint of the Ox” which gives a balanced overview of Chan. Some of his writings can be a little dry, because they are taken from his lectures to beginning students and so he covers the same basic material in different contexts. His works on Silent Illumination (the forerunner of Shikantaza & Zazen) offer one of the best modern interpretations of the practice available (“The Method of No-Method” & “Illuminating Silence”). He was born (1931) & trained in mainland China, but moved to Taiwan in 1949 to avoid religious persecution. Master Sheng Yen was recognized as a Dharma Heir in both the Linji (Rinzai in Japan) and Caodong (Soto in Japan) traditions. Master Sheng Yen founded the Dharma Drum Mountain Buddhist organization based in Taiwan, and taught regularly in the US for many years. He passed away in 2009, but left us with many good books and Dharma heirs. One of his Western Lay practitioners (& English translators) Jimmy Yu, also known as Guo Gu, is the founder and Dharma teacher of the Tallahassee Chan Center in Tallahassee, Florida. And to close the circle back to Hardcore Zen: ‘Back in the day’ Jimmy Yu was the bassist for the American 1980s hardcore bands (the original) Death Before Dishonor and Judge.

This is one of the best videos I’ve ever seen on advice re how and where to practice regardless of faith / tradition. The fact you even respectfully mention the Christian (catholic) and other traditions is a real testament to your open-mindedness - a sign of a true wise guy in my opinion. Hats off to you, and I’ll be sharing the video with others.

The Kwan Um School of Zen (I'm a member) is based on the Korean Chogye tradition, as taught by Zen Master Seung Sahn. Kong-an (jp. koan) interviews in the KUSZ are sort of a mix between what you describe as dokusan and sanzen. Usually we go in and do a bowing ritual. Then the teacher will ask if you have any questions. These questions can be anything EXCEPT a formal kong-an. Sometimes I have a question about my daily practice, but usually I try to come up with a "dharma combat" kind of question. Someone has to keep the teachers on their toes! After the first question, we might have a brief chat, but usually the teacher will move on to kong-an practice. They will start with a few "warm-up" kong-ans; then the teacher will ask which kong-an you are "working on." You go through that one, then if you pass you get another. If you don't pass, you go back to whatever practice is going on in the Dharma Room. Kong-an study is important in the school, but we're also taught not to get attached to the practice. I once asked Zen Master Wu Kwang (Richard Schrobe), "Since zazen is the core of Zen practice, why do we do kong-an study?" He said, "Why not!"

Brad, I have to agree with you (if I understood you correctly) - that finding a good (motivated and motivating) teacher is more important than the choice of tradition. Likewise, finding a good (friendly and supportive) sangha or church or whatever, is more important than the choice of tradition.

Your videos have been especially good recently.

Grande! Beautiful analysis! 🤗🇮🇹

Very nice 🎉 thx a lot!

Good information! Making my way through "The Circle of the Way". I've practiced at 2 of the main zen centers in Santa Fe, NM. One embraces both Rinzai & Soto; the other strictly Soto. I've taken Jukai and sat many sesshins at the Soto center where the preceptor made clear they were not my teacher. So I often find myself without a physical center. Maybe that's been a blessing? There is strong social justice energy (at the Soto center) and honestly, I want to keep these things separate. I appreciate what you said in another recent video that the zen center should be a place where one can rest from all the politics and hyperbole of the day. With covid and both centers going "on-line" it's made the opportunities to "just sit" a lot easier, ie sangha sans politics. BTW, reading Don't Be a Jerk and so appreciate your irreverent (we should all be so) and well-informed presentation of Dogen's words. Again and again, I am reminded of the importance of the translator as it can make all the difference in one's understanding. I love that you offer multiple interpretations as you move through the chapters. So thanks for your videos. *Got a little carried away ;-)

Thanks, Brad. Very good. Just an fyi. I checked out the various temples in LA--first practicing downtown at Zenshuji (Soto)--and finally settled at Rinzai-ji (Rinzai). Rinzai-ji is run by a Japanese nun and monk and has a formality I like. We don't do koan practice at all due to not having an abbott in residence. At one sesshin they had a Roshi there and we had dokusans, but they were just conversations. This isn't to disagree with what you said as much as adding some additional information from the Rinzai side.

Great talk, thanks! As someone not in the US, I am very out of touch. I love listening to Suzuki Roshi's lectures and my biggest zen influences, after my wonderful Aikido teacher in Holland who was not a zen master officially, were (years ago) Jakuso Kwong Roshi whom I met in Germany and Moriyama Roshi whom I met in South America. Kwong and Moriyama were wonderful for me, I consider them my teachers still. Moriyama disappeared in the tsunami and Kwong must now be very old. No idea about how the Suzuki Roshi lineage has carried on, though I was not so impressed with squabbles I heard about. Anyway, thanks for your videos Brad! (Just about to sit...) I have met wonderful folks in Jewish traditions and also Orthodox Christian, every bit as wonderful as some of the Buddhists.

Good overview Brad, I think that aspects of these different traditions are important to know. As an American practicitioner in the Korean stream of Seung Sahn, your descriptions of bowing, chanting, and a softer koan style are pretty much on the mark.

I’m happy you know the Korean temple in Detroit - Sunday is my 1st trying that place out

I got that book last time you mentioned it. It’s very good but I only got half way through it.

You are 100% correct about Barbara O'Brien's book!

. Greetings from Peaceful Reflection🙏🏻 kisss from studio ZEN in paris

My brother lives in Korea and goes to a Seon temple, and this pretty much accords with what he told me about it. The way he described the use of koans is pretty as you say, much less hardcore than in Japanese Rinzai. I think he may have even said they were more or less optional, although that may have been just because he was new there.

According to Bill Porter, Chan is not as regimented as Japanese traditions. He said, "Chinese people like to say, 'rènhé' = 'whatever'."

If you want Rinzai - look at Meido Moore! My sangha is currently reading “Circle of the Way” - thorough AND she’s a long time practitioner too (rare). I’m currently Sanbo-Kyodan (Kapleau lineage more or less, though he started his own) and it definitely leans Rinzai. I think I’m personally more pure Soto though - very Dogen. My teacher says that the Soto School has become the cult of Dogen. Is that really bad though? LOL! For Chan in America, look to the Tallahassee Zen Center!

love your content. for me, since I was confused on this topic, as I am new to buddhism (few years) and practicing anywhere seems to be hard with covid. I just decided to read books from the various masters across all the branches. Huang Po seems to have hit me the hardest, so I just say I lean chan. no idea then based on what you said with chan if huang po's style would even be practiced in the US, but interesting to think about.

My Zen Centre is a mix, we face the walls , but also do koans, except I don't as they do my head in, original pronunciation for 'Chan' was 'Dzhen' in old Chinese

I did not spend much time investigating when I lived in China during the 2010's, but my general impression was that it was a husk without real practice going on. Oftentimes, it appeared that outward trappings of Buddhism were more about becoming "bling" and showing off status. Of course, I have no way of knowing whether or not, e.g. such bling was at the command of a Vajrayana guru. That said, there's also a pretty big interest in vegetarian restaurants currently, at least some of which appears done in the name of Buddhist teachings. Taiwan probably has similar problems, but on the whole I'd say there's a lot more honest practice.

The first more substantial informations on Chán/Zen arrived the West via Japan. The Zen-masters/scholars told the history of Chán/Zen with some inbuilt chauvinistic ("Ours alone!") biases - maybe, they themselves were also not so very well informed after three-hundred years of "splended isolation". The thing is: Especially the Rinzai-Zen-missionary D.T. Suzuki spread the lore, that "pure Zen" now only still existed inside Japan, but had already ceased to florish on the Mainland soon after its "golden era" during Táng-times. Well, that is at best a part of the real story. The Japanese were very keen to keep denominations clearly apart. Some scholars locate two decisive cultural factor behind this as, first,the higher degree of ethnical homegeneity and, second, the stronger power of central state-institutions inside the Island Empire, which supported ritualistic-bureaucratic tendencies considerably. On the East-Asian Mainland, things weren´t as neatly ordered. The purist-puritanic approach of Shénhùi, who started the whole Northern-School versus Southern-School fights, never really seems to have become mainstream, which rather went towards syncretistic harmonisations. The data show that Chán-communities persisted, "legally" based on genealogical lines, throughout the centuries. However, there was much "genre blurring" and "cross-over" going on, which was officially sanctioned, since about Sòng-times, by the motto: "The three teachings are [in real reality basically] one!". Another factor: The Chán-Buddhists on the mainland where quite on line with Master Dôgen. Their basic approach was: "Dhyâna-Meditation" is an integral part of all enlightenment-practice (and some even regarded it as "common domain" for all people, not only for Buddhists). In the end-effect, nearly all Buddhist-temples inside China Proper (where the relative autonomous western-central Asian "Vajrayâna" was not very widespread, at least until Míng-times, when it played the role of a kind of state-religion) were automatically also labelled as "Chán/禅". And Neo-Ruists, like the famous literate-official Wáng Yángmíng (1472-1528), had no problem in adopting some Chán-"sytle" into their neo-Confucianist movement. That made the whole scene, compared with Japan, look considerably confusing. Nowadays, the "religious scenary" on the whole seems to experience new dynamics. One of the more recent "mutations" of the meditation-movement seems to have been the rise of the Fâlúnggong (Dharma-wheel Gongfu), which has then, after a short while, been officially declared "illegal". But besides, older and newer religous movements seem again to thrive. In sum, I would propose: Chán-Buddhism never disappeared on the mainland. However, it took on some "disguises" (seen from the Japanese perspective of "pure Zen", that is), and underwent several "mutations". But it still looks like "being here to stay".

"Every morning the Sangha does 108 of those (bows)...and its a workout." Bowing is the only exercise Theravadan monks get...as exercising is considered a form of vanity in their tradition. At least they are well fed with nutritious treats to be enjoyed only between dawn and noon. A huge percentage of monks in Thailand are obese and the government is cracking down on their consumption of soft drinks. In China, Korea and Japan it has usually been the opposite...maximum exercise and minimum nutrition. The lore is filled with stories of monks on the verge of starvation.

"Every religion is an individual religion". Hence why Zen Master Joshu said: "if the wrong man preaches the right truth, the truth will follow him and become wrong. But if a right man preaches the wrong truth, the truth will follow him and become right". I've seen terrible and marvelous individuals in all religions, and everything in between!

Apologies if you ever did a video on this (I couldn't find it in the search on your youtube page) but what's your impression about the book 'Zen Guitar' by Philip Toshioo Sudo from the perspective of a musician and Zen Buddhist? Thanks

Ziggy knows where this game is going...

Master Xuyun's biography tells a bit about restoration of Chan in China and communism there. As for Zen and Chan there is surely differences in teachings, which I won't mention, but after all it's the same root. Probably most of the famous Zen stories, such as about the 6th Patriarch, etc are in fact Chinese stories. Even Dogen studied there, no? To me the person of the teacher is more important than the tradition. Also, I'd be guessing that Chan, as it is today, was influenced by Confucianism and Taoism, whereas Zen by the Samurai tradition.

My only in Person Exposure to a Zen practice group was in the Down style of Korean Master Seung Sahn . " Down "is a typo . I tried to type Soen but the stupid spell correct feature on my phone changed Soen to Down. Since The Kwan Um school of Seung Sahn emphasizes prostrations, it doesn't hurt to be " Down" with prostrations😎 Sabumnim( master) Seung Sahn was from the Jogye Order of Soen.. The Taego order of Soen is the order where the priests can marry. One time in the Kwan Um ( Kwan Um is the Bodhisattva of compassion) Soen group sitting, a Soto dude came and sat with us. He was wearing a black robe while we might wear a grey robe over our street clothes or just wear street clothes. One thing that stuck out to me was the way he did his Dhyana Mudra. It Appeared like he was holding his Hands in the Dhyana (one hand placed over another with thumb tips touching to form a circle) Mudra but he held his hands and Arms several inches above his folded legs. Most of us in the sitting group used the Dhyana AKA cosmic mudra like the Soto guy did, but we were holding it closer to or even resting it on our feet . To me it would seem tiring to continuously hold the mudra that far above the belly button. I have no clue how common that hand level is in Soto groups. I've seen some KZfaq videos where Soto Sitters have there Dhyana mudra on or close to their feet or lap. But hey whatever Gets "you "there, Gets" us "there with the correct Heart intention. Whatever floats all Sentient Beings Boat. Viva la difference" in Unity. 😎....... .... PS. You Are Correct Brad because we faced each other in a circle or faced the front of the room. We didn't face the walls like in Soto groups. That's how I saw the Mudra level of the Soto gentleman. I did try to Meditate a couple times holding my mudra up away from my lap but it was awkward . I prefer nearer the lap.. ..... PPS as usual I enjoyed Brad's Video very much.

Since you mentioned Sasaki as problematic, I will say that Seung Sahn (the Korean master you mentioned) also slept with some of his students while his other students thought he was celibate. Not as grave as the terrible stuff Sasaki did, but still.

Maybe it is very subjective, yet I think Seungsahn's "The Compass of Zen" was the best introductory book I have read. For me it's really better than "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind". But I am still a beginner, so my view is different from an advanced person's view and I suppose it may be a issue of translations.

I could've sworn they were one and the same?

Seung Sahn used to say that when we bow..."small I is bowing to big I". Say what...enlightenment is merely a matter of size???

How about Won Buddhism?

The Chinese Chan is the origin of Zen. Buddhism was brought to China by Bodhidharma and subsequently spread to other Asian countries. The monks are celibate and cannot marry.

In Korean, Chogye is celibate, Taego is married. Also, the direction we face is weird- toward the wall in daily practice, inward during retreats.

Do you ever heard about the dangers of meditation like depersonalization and the dark night of the soul??????? could you make a video about it?

my experience of the kwan um school (Chogye) is it is more institutional and not centered on individual teachers the way japanese zen is and there's a lot of freedom in that, in hindsight japanese zen is way too "culty" korean zen is not so much into sitting meditation, but chanting and walking meditation but in the end they are both religions and suffer the usual problems, i think one thing people won't pick up from brad because he is "solo" is the intense internal politics zen /seen have, live with it for a while and you become oh so sceptical about the whole business the other things that stand out are the general poor health and money problems and people putting too much of their lives into what doesn't bear fruit for them personally i found the people in kwan um "nicer' and less "anal" than zen, easier to get along with and more "worldly realistic", honestly japanese zen is so "fascist", full of "power mad" stupids in attitude and action what i notice in terms of my real life zen experience which is across several different "zen" traditions is it is like a vaccination against believing any of the shit or taking it seriously and those caught in the "idealized world" of "net zen" are going to be caught in an illusion they will never escape and to be honest, i think brad who also lacks much experience of "zen institutions in the real world" is also caught different experience is such a fundamental divide, its interesting, real life experience of anything breeds scepticism, without it you are dreaming which of course most of the posting here is zen is not a "philosophy" but an "institutional/cult product" r|zen which is a bunch of dreamers if there ever were , they strenuously avoid any real life zen contact, i guess because the maintenance of "the dream" is what is really important to them i suppose i should take my exit from here, real life versus "the dream" is very clashing and no bridge can cross it and i have seen what the real zen life is, poor health, being broke and wasting your life in a sterile avenue