Zimbabwean Politician Saviour Kasukuwere In Conversation with Trevor Part 1

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Zimbabwean Politician Saviour Kasukuwere In Conversation with Trevor Part 1

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Күн бұрын

In this 2 part episode, Zimbabwean politician and former Zimbabwean Cabinet Minister Saviour Kasukuwere sit down with Trevor. They discuss the recent events that took place in his life from his time in the cabinet, the role of the army in Zimbabwean politics and the Zanu PF succession infighting.
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Video produced by AMH, Heart & Soul and Maverick Media Zimbabwe.
In Conversation With Trevor is proudly sponsored by Titan Law.

Пікірлер: 462

@fredyMashate 3 жыл бұрын

I was doing my O'levels in Mt Darwin in 2008 when citizens were beaten and some killed in the name of Kasukuwere. One of my teacher was beaten and left for dead only to wake up from comma at Pari. Slogan yaiti 'unotsva neParaquat'. God rest the souls of those that lost their lives... Kasukuwere seems to be suffering from amnesia but we have not forgotten.

@tryleenyashamatongera1794 3 жыл бұрын

Spot on!!! That is exactly what l am thinking right now, shaa people don't know what these guys did to us! Paraquat mdara, deserved everything he is going through

@mantawaz 3 жыл бұрын

Am from Mash Central myself and I wish I can add more but the wickedness of Kasukuwere and team is far too much to even try document. Kasukuwere and team Vakambotirova prone in 2008....kurohwa prone is when you are made to lie with your tummy on the ground then they use chishamhu and mashamboks to beat you from your shoulders to your feet...it was a painful time.

@wondergenaro2881 3 жыл бұрын

@@mantawaz oh very sorry u had to go thru that

@Zimboprenuer 3 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/md5xmbaFqN_SqI0.html

@iceechips6468 2 жыл бұрын

Tyson, Patrick & Jonathan Moyo deserve 6 feet under. No 2 ways about that

@talentmusosi9881 3 жыл бұрын

Ndaisaziva kti vana Tyson munotori ne ma feelings wo nekuuraya kwamaita vanhu

@melakwacha9843 3 жыл бұрын

What a shame

@tapiwamutemajiri4527 3 жыл бұрын

Ndoo vanhu vakaba mari yese yenyika ava. Kusanyara kasukuwere. Imba yawakavaka mari yacho wakaiwana kupi.

@kelvinmakomichi5095 3 жыл бұрын

what hurts is the fact that these people had the chance to be in government and change things for the better but all they did is consolidate power, they all sound so innocent after being expelled

@chiherapowerchiheraspecial4770 3 жыл бұрын

exactly they thought zimbabwe was their private property

@Jayfblesd 3 жыл бұрын

@passizindova4532 3 жыл бұрын

Thats very sad. You can say that again. they also did bad things to others

@estellent3168 3 жыл бұрын

you have said it all.....thank you

@Mas_mas751 3 жыл бұрын

Wabaya, vakarera imba a nemukaka.

@tmangezi 3 жыл бұрын

It hurts so much to hear people like Kasukuwere talking about people today

@d12cov38 3 жыл бұрын

no point in Trevor also bringing in discredited people, nobody wants to hear from an asshole

@MlungisiDubeMthembo 3 жыл бұрын

When politicians lose power they regain common sense and become understanding

@erisherm.8451 3 жыл бұрын

🤣🤣🤣🤣. True

@jamesmarekera8347 3 жыл бұрын

True

@the_progressive_villager 3 жыл бұрын

🤣😂🤣😂

@jannicechombo1882 3 жыл бұрын

Wandiuraya 😂😂😂

@mutsawashe1369 3 жыл бұрын

You can say that again

@nyati3612 3 жыл бұрын

Would have loved to hear more on Youth Interface rallies where H.E MNANGAGWA was reduced to a village boy whilst Tyson celebrated and where Grace got her power from

@Whenlifehappens40 3 жыл бұрын

He deserved everything that he got ... Zimbabweans have been experiencing that for many years now .. he got a small taste of his own medicine !!!

@Shawn_G_ 3 жыл бұрын

Come on Saviour !!! The army has always been involved you know that.

@danielchakacha5770 3 жыл бұрын

Kuita kunge asingazvizive ,2008.

@silandulo 3 жыл бұрын

He means against him 🤷🏾‍♂️

@shelusalem2861 3 жыл бұрын

Mr Kasukuwere is forgetting how opposition members were butchered since 2000. What he went through is exactly what opposition member were going through and feeling. What he is saying is a very good definition of Karma.

@taonamananga2335 3 жыл бұрын

Vakuru vakati kurera imbwa nemukaka inofuma yokuruma. Vakarera masoja akazovapandukira

@nancemoyo9365 Жыл бұрын

to my surprised he was tete during his time he should have to answer every single question about all the killings uyu anoziva makuva evatakashaya vasina makuwa especially Itai dzamara but y vanhu ava vachiti wese abviswa pachigaro vanotiza why

@kefasmashura6374 Жыл бұрын

Abduction of innocent people was the main reason why he failed and people won't be stupid to bring him back to power. He will be worse than before before. He killed too many people

@tmachinga 3 жыл бұрын

You can hear years of political privilege in his tone.

@Boomslang1 3 жыл бұрын

He's totally detached from reality

@owentavengwa3933 Жыл бұрын

Good to see Kasukuwere in a such humble mood, very sober. What a lesson for those hold power today. Nothing lasts forever.

@gracesibanda1696 Жыл бұрын

ED was the same when he came into power but suddenly switched back to default mode, ie the real zanu pf evil ruling. This one will do the same

@melakwacha9843 3 жыл бұрын

Unbelievable, Tyson how can you say that, you didn't expect army to be used for political differences. You and ZANU used the army against MDC members all the time. Karma is real. What goes around comes around my dear. Welcome to MDC lives.

@leonmakukutu1816 3 жыл бұрын

"I never thought political differences will be resolved by the use of our security forces"😂😂😂😂😂 Tsvangirai(RIP) will laugh at that

@melakwacha9843 3 жыл бұрын

🤣😂 True.

@robertkugara5569 3 жыл бұрын

I perceive a lot of lies about the escape, how did they leave his house, or Harare in the first place?😅😅

@talison9053 3 жыл бұрын

@@robertkugara5569 i tried replaying that part. i was thinking maybe I missed that important part but there's nothing said. they even drove to mugabes after all the gun fire

@Vatsunga 3 жыл бұрын

The irony of it is totally missed on his part. He conveniently forgot 2008!

@DoubleA88 3 жыл бұрын

It’s either delusion or careful brand management 🤦🏾‍♂️

@taonakaronga2153 3 жыл бұрын

we will never figure out what went wrong in our country until some of these guys are willing to be honest. The sad thing here is that he is hiding the truth from us because he has hidden the truth from himself.

@taonamananga2335 3 жыл бұрын

Yu are very true. Its so sad that he is narrating zvinhu zviri wrong and zvisina kuitika. Vakavenga chokwadi vanhu ava

@spinfitmobilegym1023 3 жыл бұрын

@@taonamananga2335 Brainwashed me ZANUPF zvekutora nhema kuita chokwadi. Mbavha dzevanhu ngazviurayane zvipere. These people robbed our lives. Tsek

@brianchitana3576 Жыл бұрын

You live by the gun, you die by the gun!!! That was a wake up call on your part Tyson, that is what every Zimbabwean goes through in their lives in this country at the hands of your former party, and at the hands of your party and Govt whilst you were actively a member therein. Now you see how the multitudes of Zimbabweans that live their country everyday feel upon leaving their own families and loved ones behind, going into the unknown world. It's good to see you as humble as you've become.

@clearerams825 Жыл бұрын

I couldn't say it better.

@gracesibanda1696 Жыл бұрын

Don’t buy this you “ humble” tactic. People don’t change

@user-iu4gh4sn1d Жыл бұрын

Bullshit😊

@feyfey5678 2 жыл бұрын

Next time trevor pliz give us a chance to fire questions itai live pliz !! I am itching to give him a piece on my mind!

@mutambimutambo190 3 жыл бұрын

KKKKKK the vanquished will forever know the pain of being vanquished

@mampofu1052 3 жыл бұрын

kkkk akanzwa bhata

@courtneyvitorino2836 3 жыл бұрын

Thats how most Zimbabwean are living they're lives on daily basis because of people like you

@herbetrumbidzomarembo1360 3 жыл бұрын

This ought be interesting. Always a pleasure to watch these interviews. I will be on this show before I'm 30. Watch the space @Trevor Ncube

@jaypusha5554 3 жыл бұрын

Good luck my bro, I hope it happens for you.

@Zimboprenuer 3 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/md5xmbaFqN_SqI0.html

@cmavuso6068 3 жыл бұрын

On his 2 nd interview ask this C10 operative how he got the money to build such a massive home please Trevor

@brianmlambo3306 3 жыл бұрын

Its unfortunate minister what you went through , but except the bullets part ...this is what everyday Zimbabwean is going through, no proper place to sleep or anything to eat, long walking distance to get basic services, but nevertheless we remain kind people.

@mombe9734 3 жыл бұрын

It sounds strange when they face what every Zimbabwean is facing everyday yet they killed economy when they were in power

@simonzulu7054 3 жыл бұрын

and his favorite president like it on the opposition

@user-pw2pu5dv9z Жыл бұрын

These guys have no idea of the life of an ordinary Zimbabwean zvavo

@thabomabhena6082 3 жыл бұрын

Tyson now knows how the people felt at the hands of the army when he was in government. How evil Zanu is and has been.When you talk about your children think about the children of Itai Dzamara and other people killed by the previous regime

@TheAnzanga 3 жыл бұрын

When the hunter becomes the hunted

@callistorugadza4903 3 жыл бұрын

What a hypocrite...... thus what happens when you mistreat others when you are a in a position of power now it’s your turn....just repent Sir Kasukuwere.

@njabulolunga783 3 жыл бұрын

It served him right after the way these ZANU people have been treating us. I’m over the moon that he got a taste of his own medicine. I’ve no sympathy whatsoever for this hypocrite, coward and political charlatan!

@tariromadigi 3 жыл бұрын

Exactly what he felt after Mugabe was toppled is also what Mnangagwa felt. Savior is a clawn

@wondergenaro2881 3 жыл бұрын

Dambudzo had to be removed....he is evil personified

@handsofzainvirtuosospa105 3 жыл бұрын

Indeed, mudya zvemahara

@sim2122 3 жыл бұрын

"Having been in politics for a long time, I never thought political differences would be resolved by the use of our security forces" What planet did this charlatan live on? does he think we are idiots? Trevor needs to be tougher with his questioning.

@erisherm.8451 3 жыл бұрын

Kasukuwere thought Zimbabwe was his tomato tuckshop. He is now learning it the hard way. Thank God he survived to tell the story.

@douglasziso6568 3 жыл бұрын

Rfçcc i

@nyashamugumbate9973 3 жыл бұрын

Welcome back to your senses.....The real life of Zimbabweans

@melakwacha9843 3 жыл бұрын

Always be nice to people. Imagine if you met a relative of one of the people you killed.

@wallacemuduve3034 Жыл бұрын

I am from Mt. Darwin & I think Kasukuwere learned great things from our Zimbabwe politics . Power needs be shared and corruption be abolished. I hope he learns from this experience

@gushtosticketv1691 3 жыл бұрын

The freedom you felt in Mozambique is what we are yearning for in Zimbabwe. The wrong you did was to massacre innocent civilians, You created many orphans.

@jordanshamudzarira3133 3 жыл бұрын

The saddest thing about this story is that he survived the "attack."

@wondergenaro2881 3 жыл бұрын

Thats the good party that they survived....the saddest 😢 is Dambudzo is alive and allowed to grab power thru the gun 🔫 toting millitary

@amytsiga8047 3 жыл бұрын

Thank you Mr Trevor Ncube for your interviews and your aim for a fair platform. I still dislike the likes of Tyson. Whilst I don't wish him ill or pain, I don't think he would be speaking to you if he was still a minister. He is in the diaspora but looks well. Not that can be said about alot in the diaspora caused by policies he was part of.

@nhlanhlambambo1962 3 жыл бұрын

People of Mozambique showed you kindness, something you failed to extend to your own fellow citizens until you were forced out. What a shame!

@ktg9396 3 жыл бұрын

I like your work Trevor, but this was rather disappointing.

@MrMbisker 3 жыл бұрын

Trevor is undercover ZANU, you can’t trust these old fools

@masimbamataruse7691 3 жыл бұрын

Totally agree with you Kevin. Trevor has let him get away with a victim story when he could have asked tougher questions.

@oraclesofthebantupeople1055 3 жыл бұрын

Take a nap at 2 am 😅😅 these guys are very funny

@nyashamugumbate9973 3 жыл бұрын

"There should be limits " lnga munotoziva henyu ...Those days in 2008 of long and short sleeves did you think of these limits...The entire Civilians have suffered whist you enjoyed

@calculust3033 3 жыл бұрын

Great questions. Politics is dirty . WE WILL ALWAYS SUFFER FROM LEGACY PROBLEMS

@manprydo 3 жыл бұрын

Its called karma. The guy wasn't naive, he was being arrogant, thought he was untouchable.

@wingfieldcourt8553 3 жыл бұрын

The lack of remorse in his voice and the denial of CIO led abductions is sickening.

@trevorkhama1885 3 жыл бұрын

First time i have seen the "Stephen Sackur", side of you, very impressive interview, you asked the hard questions and key takeaway is that the man has learnt how life is on the other side.

@archiem7757 3 жыл бұрын

How they identified Tyson as a potential CIO was none other than matraits eutsinye.

@wondergenaro2881 3 жыл бұрын

Kkkkkkl

@mthulisidube5502 3 жыл бұрын

Trevor is a masterful inquisitor

@prosperchiringa2229 3 жыл бұрын

When you were treating Tsvangirai like that it was good usataure zvekupenga

@leeroyrupere 3 жыл бұрын

Hearing what kasukuweri crying is just poetic justice

@kennykambikambi4002 Жыл бұрын

PRAISE GOD FOR SUCCESSION PLANNING IN OUR POLITICAL SYSTEMS WELL SAID, MR KASUKUWERE, IT IS ALL ABOUT CONTROL AND SELF-CONTROL IS A FRUIT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

@godknowszinyoni2555 3 жыл бұрын

Quite interesting

@Bingley33 3 жыл бұрын

Lol in his time in politics he didn't think the armed forces would be used to settle differences? 😂😂 What a joker

@gilbertdzuda7447 3 жыл бұрын

If you can imagine HOW MANY PEOPLE HAVE LEFT THE LOVELY ZIMBABWE BECAUSE OF THE MUGABE s BAD GOVERNANCE

@gilbertdzuda7447 3 жыл бұрын

Zimbabweans are economic refugees all over the world because of Mugabe rule -- gara pasi -- don't ever come back to seek a political leadership position in Zimbabwe -- ndimi makauraya

@lukehari9479 3 жыл бұрын

But Savour, you have been using the military against political opponents, in 2008 the military moved in to stop Morga' from taking over power, was the involvement of the military really a suprise

@pardonmushambi7560 Жыл бұрын

Um glad Tyson felt what the ZANU PF victims felt in 2008. vaiva nehutsinye mdhara uyu

@reraadmw814 2 жыл бұрын

Your ordeal was your moment of reflection I guess!!

@leewaypachawo9380 3 жыл бұрын

Trevor Ncube should be a bit more interrogative to some of these unclear statements like BBC Hard talk. How can trained military gunners spray bullets at a target and leave without ascertaining mission accomplished, and also have the victims walk out of the house drive around... Not making sense.

@mombe9734 3 жыл бұрын

I think their mission was not to kill them but to chase them away

@freeyoungzimgeneration1984 3 жыл бұрын

whats his take on operation Muramba Tsvina while young kids were sleeping on the Bus rank for a week.

@shepherdmuzondo2366 Жыл бұрын

we want you back you will make Zimbabwe great if you don't forget

@lukediego5152 3 жыл бұрын

Urikunyepa Tyson

@ziggykugedera9819 3 жыл бұрын

If only you guys had understood that politics is not about killing each other, I think we could not have witnessed what we saw in 2008 and all other years of political violence

@mrchigs1979 3 жыл бұрын

"My experiences during the liberation struggle...." apo hondo yakapera munhu aine 7 years (Grade 2). Pamwe ndini ndega ndanga ndakafa focus at that age. Zvakangooma hazvo, munhu wese weZANU mu war vet

@prosperganya8067 3 жыл бұрын

i got that too, kkkkkk and at that age he was selling vegetables in Dzivarasekwa hahahahahahaha what a lie...... these guys takes us for fools

@CryptoPowerTalk 3 жыл бұрын

20:14 A Zimbabwean shop owner said "I know what you're going through in your country" why would a zimbo refer to his country as someone else's country.

@prosperganya8067 3 жыл бұрын

lies upon lies hahahahahahahaha

@Zimboprenuer 3 жыл бұрын

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/md5xmbaFqN_SqI0.html

@rich-o Жыл бұрын

A chilling experience.

@atribecalledtah8876 3 жыл бұрын

I just can't stop wondering. There was a hectic armed attack on this guys house but he still managed to take his whole family and get into a car and drive off to RG Mugabes house ? So these soldiers that were attacking just decided to let them go ???

@samusodzah 3 жыл бұрын

I also wonder. It doesn't make sense to me. Someone is lying

@blessed9115 3 жыл бұрын

Same question I have

@lawrencemanzanga4871 3 жыл бұрын

Killing them would have been counterproductive. Scare tactics....

@melakwacha9843 3 жыл бұрын

Wondering too🤔

@silandulo 3 жыл бұрын

Killing them wasn’t an option as they sought to be a legitimate Government after the coup d’etat

@vanyahwa 3 жыл бұрын

Ndinotengesa maSize enyu emaShirts vaKasukuwere - ekuti makagara munokwana pasina stress seizvo...

@chiyenyumba7135 3 жыл бұрын

😂 😂 😂

@mugovemuchabaiwa807 Жыл бұрын

Why must this guy really be given airplay?? Informative conversation yei. Mxm

@silasmparadza817 3 жыл бұрын

Really imagine the hell Morgan went, no more words

@CliveZw 3 жыл бұрын

Would you have snitched on Kasukuwere and Moyo if you met them whilst on the run in Mozambique during that time?

@courtneyvitorino2836 3 жыл бұрын

Hell yes

@danielchakacha5770 3 жыл бұрын

Let me save my data.

@djlawomusic 3 жыл бұрын

Zanu PF people are funny, they do exactly these things to ordinary Zimbabweans and when they taste their own medicine they become cry babies🙄🙄

@ropafadzokunze4122 3 жыл бұрын

ANTHILLS OF THE SAVANNAH by Chinua Achebe

@oscarchivuna9966 2 жыл бұрын

Power blinds, period.

@tatendachanyau2483 3 жыл бұрын

He is a witness of an international case shouldnt it commence

@JenaCoxwainPhil Жыл бұрын

Very much perplexing! Killers also fear death 😂

@gushtosticketv1691 3 жыл бұрын

I suppose the feelings that you had was more terrifying for the hapless rural folk that wanted to vote for Tsvangirai. the carnage of wavhotera papi was more devastating for povo who did not have bullet proof vests and steel gates.

@Farrymadzore275 Жыл бұрын

Kasukuwere must honestly tell the nation exactly what was happening within Zanu Pf. What were the differences among the individuals at the time Emerson Mnangagwa was forced to leave the country?

@tendayimwayi1926 3 жыл бұрын

Of all Trevor's interviews that I've watched, I found this one difficult to watch through to the end because from the opening paragraph it was clear that RG Mugabe's government had all the planning, structure and substance of a Mickey Mouse show. With the "intelligence"' he says reached cabinet, they neither had the urgency nor mechanisms to prevent an imminent security threat to the sitting government.

@chaminukaradio946 3 жыл бұрын

In my circles, we grew up knowing about ‘Chinhu Chedu’ & who the anointed successor was going to be since Independence Day, at all costs. It’s unfortunate people were naive or didn’t understand how deep this Chinhu Chedu was rooted.

@ernestkumwenda8673 Жыл бұрын

My people my people. If this man is really running or president my his team help me to speak better. He needs to be articulate. All those who have taken power speak well. Good or bad all from Napoleon to Hitler, Mugabe they articulate points. Even when they are off course one my even believe them. Please assist in that regard.

@coachphillipah6965 3 жыл бұрын

Kasukuwere is lying about Rashiwe. She was my cousin, we do not know what happened to her and her body was never found. This is my first time hearing that they know what happened and they caught the culprits!

@mutsawashe1369 3 жыл бұрын

This must be very painful to you and your family.

@coachphillipah6965 3 жыл бұрын

@@mutsawashe1369 Yes!

@esnathconstancemoyo3674 Жыл бұрын

Yes he is lying about her is a shame for someone who is trying to come out cean

@gorsam1979 3 жыл бұрын

Saviour has not suffered enough. Bob got the easy way out and died in shame. It is your turn Saviour. The whole of ZANU will get out one day and will get what they have done to Zimbabwe. We don't forget Saviour and we don't forgive.

@JahCure-zh4dt 7 күн бұрын

Kasukuwere, unoziva here Kuti kana tsoko ichikwira gudo inonakirwa asi kana yokwirwawo hanzi kwangu kudiki. Wakamama mhondi iwe!!!

@iceechips6468 2 жыл бұрын

He got a taste of his own medicine. Let him enjoy diaspora life.

@gilbertdzuda7447 3 жыл бұрын

What goes around comes around

@user-xx8hx8wk8b Жыл бұрын

Good evening to the whole world

@mazaratipussy 3 жыл бұрын

This is the first public testimony of the Benz coupe

@louischihata8523 3 жыл бұрын

The army had been involved in the 2008 election, Tyson was being naive

@archfordmabuka4448 3 жыл бұрын

if not since 2002 election

@denismunashesidunaSID 3 жыл бұрын

Laughs in Gukurahundi massacres

@MrMbisker 3 жыл бұрын

Since 1980 gentlemen

@mashinge168 Жыл бұрын

The past and present political affiliation aside, this man exudes remarkable intelligence. He certainly remains ( if he was in the affirmative alternative set up, not zanupf) presidential material.

@jothammakwelo7960 9 ай бұрын

He was violent and corrupt. Call a spade a spade.

@give-usrambanapasi2135 3 жыл бұрын

Welcome sir.

@user-xh3st3ir4r Жыл бұрын

So where is ltai Dzamara during your presence

@shumbayepatsonzo4451 3 жыл бұрын

interesting.

@ronakio 2 жыл бұрын

This is what happens when you steal public funds. It never ends well.

@ericnqobilengwenya9460 3 жыл бұрын

Zanu pf was British project went wrong

@gilbertdzuda7447 3 жыл бұрын

Ndiwe chikomana chema long and short sleeve -- cutting people's hand - the past shall come to count - MWARI haadhakwi -- deal with it --

@thomasjuniordhaki2508 2 жыл бұрын

The millitary should have caught these guys and make them do time in Chikurubi.

@hloniphanidube9903 3 жыл бұрын

Zanu Amy has always been used to thwart any opposition, this was taste of your own medicine.

@cm-gl1lf 3 жыл бұрын

It's funny how Tyson is laying out the proper explanation on the proper succession plan when he is now watching from the terraces, things they should have done whilst still in office 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 G40 was outclasted by Lacoste and to allow Grace kurova bembera vachiombera maoko was their big mistake in the game of politics 🤕

@chimanimanitv 3 жыл бұрын

Kasukuwere is still a CIO

@Tanak15 3 жыл бұрын

So they were missed? Crashed into his home and didn't take him? There was communication, what communication? The rest became history??

@simonmatjeke1722 Жыл бұрын

At least Mr Kasukuwere uporn your arrival in Mozambique you was welcomed by the head of state and moving to South Africa i do also believe you was well welcomed by your MyANC comrades and as now definately you are living a good life in Johannesburg whilst ordinary Zimbabweans urpon leaving their country because of your misrule they face rejections wherever they go

@robertkugara5569 3 жыл бұрын

Lol, from 13:35 I sense a lot of lies 😅🤣🤣. How did they drive from Harare?!☺️😅

@taonamananga2335 3 жыл бұрын

Zvese kubva zvaatanga inhema dzega dzega. Not all the soilders were against Mugabe they were helped by the soilders to move to SA kwete manyepo ayo

@miltonchirinda2190 2 жыл бұрын

When these political hooligans lose power they start thinking rationally. We haven't forgotten your inhuman torture and killings your didi in Mash West. Judgement day is still waiting for you. What you went through was just a hint that justice will one day prevail

@trymoremushirivindi2698 Жыл бұрын

Tyson usanyepe iwewe, you took over your parliamentary seat and and position in Zanu Pf after the death of two cadres who died the same way namely Boarder Gezi and Elliot Manyika, CIO of that time know how these two died.