That’s very kind of you. These are the comments that keep me creating more! One day 🤞🎉❤️🙏

There should be a middle ground. The moonlander has too many keys and they are too tall, while the voyager has too few keys.

There is one thing needs to be pointed, voyager has low profile keys. I have a problem cuz i know i need low profile keys, I would like to see moonlander with those, but I am unlucky in here :/.

@@user-ns7zx7hi3p i wish i could have put chocs on the moonlander. I have the zip kit and a 42 key layout but as a remote worker I had to get a better/silent travel option so I also got the voyager for coworking spaces. I love the moonlander but i find myself enjoying low profile switches.Moonlander at home and voyager as my travel/coworking kit.

Ohh, the le petit cushions looks really nice! I’m going to have to give that a try! 😅

I also have small hands and unfortunately I have the Ergodox. Now I realise I should have bought the voyager

What has your experience with the Glove80 been? I'm looking to get a larger tent than my original Ergodox EZ. The Kinesis 360 looked promising, but the wired version doesn't support QMK or XMK… I could get the tilt I'd want from either the Moonlander or the Voyager with tripod mounts, however I do like the idea of having keys be the contoured design to fit my hand shape better. I have a lot of features that I won't find on the software offered by the Kinesis.

@@shookieTea After having used a Kinesis Advantage 1 for about 6 years, various ErgoDoxen for about 8 years and a Kinesis Advantage 360 for about 1 year, it's safe to assume I'm rather used to that general shape and key layout. I find contoured keyboards more comfortable than flat ones, and used the Kinesis 360 at its steepest tenting angle (same for an ErgoDox EZ before that), for extra comfort. The Glove80 I used for about 5 weeks I think, in the default untented configuration, because that's easiest and also what they recommend starting with. Naturally it took some time to get used to the different thumb key layout, but that wasn't as much of a change as I feared. I had more trouble with the extra row at the top, because previously the number row was the topmost row, and now it wasn't. The curves are different between the Kinesis and Glove, almost mirrored actually: where the Glove has a steeper lower row and flatter top row, the Advantage's lower row is flatter while the top row is more curled towards the fingers. Either is fine, it just takes getting used to. The Glove is very light, and almost flimsy, the Advantage 360 is much more solid and heavy. The Glove did slide around the desk when using so I had to put a desk mat between the desk and keyboard so it had just enough grip to not slide around. I never got to the point of trying a tented configuration of it though, but after a few weeks I did consider it one of my top 2 favorite keyboards. The Advantage 360 was still on top, but if my history with them were different I could imagine it being the other way round. I didn't try it for longer because a new challenger appeared, a BastardKB Charybdis (prebuilt) with silent tactile Boba U4, trackball on the right, PBT MT3 keycaps, with built-in tents at a steep angle (60 degree I think). That's the most tenting I ever used, it misses the bottom-most row and innermost columns, and yet I've been using it since December, because I like it a lot. It's 6x4, like the Voyager, so I had to get used to not having arrow/navigation keys and brackets/braces on the top layer, and it was a considerable change, but the rest of the keyboard is so nice. That same change didn't work for me on the Voyager, because that had too few thumb keys to make up for it (home row mods or suchlike might have, but that would be another big change on top). The trackball I don't use much yet, still using an Elecom Deft Pro to the side, to get used to one thing at a time, but the integrated trackball has a lot of potential. Because it only has 5 thumb keys on the left and 3 on the right some of those are now dual-use keys, to fit everything I need on my thumbs: on the left that is command, option, control, backspace, shift, enter, layer-switch-while-holding. On the right command, option, space, enter and layer-switch-while-holding. So the Glove is still in my top 3 favorite keyboards, for being comfortably sculpted and good configurability, but it didn't have time to rise to my very top because of the stiff competition. PS: what QMK features are a must have for you? I still use a wired Advantage 360 at home and changed its configuration to be similar to the Charybdis at work, with more dual-use keys and around 8 macros for navigation. SmartSet is no QMK/ZMK but the basic things I need are mostly there. One thing I miss is the ability for the layer-switch to be a dual-use key, the wired Kinesis 360 cannot do that. Maybe check out BastardKB. They also have the Scylla, which is a 6x4 like a Charybdis without trackball, so 5 thumb keys on each side. Both are available in more minimal 6x3 or even 5x3 versions, if that's your thing. 6x4 is the fewest top-level keys I'd want to go. For mobile use, I'm also intrigued by their Dilemma, which has a built-in trackpad, but is flat - may be a good tradeoff for on the go, but only 4 thumb keys. BastardKB is the most expensive option when pre-built, but also the best among the keyboards I know (cheaper if you build yourself, but I couldn't be bothered to solder surface-mount stuff, despite having soldered many ErgoDoxen, but with big diodes).

​@@shrugalic It looks like my reply got eaten by KZfaq, probably because I linked to my Oryx layout... I'll try to summarize, first thanks for the extensive reply! You should be able to find my layout on the zsa configuration site by searching for "shookie", and there is not a tour. I use multi-function keys with layer swaps. I hold down F to get arrow keys on my right hand, and hold down D to get a numpad on my right hand. I'm considering using S and L to swap to my symbol layer, as well. Honestly, I didn't even check the Kinesis SmartSet software because I assumed it wouldn't have what I needed. My main issue with both the Glove80 and Advantage 360 Pro (for XMK functionality) is that the halves connect via Bluetooth with each other. I don't want that extra overhead of potential issues, or having to worry about charging. I could deal with this if the halves were wired together and only the PC connection was Bluetooth, but alas, no one is doing this. I'm checking out the BastardKB boards now, and these look almost exactly like what I'm looking for. I think I will miss the extra keys on the Charybdis, but 60 degree tilt is exactly what I'm looking for. I'm not sure what the default tilt of the Scylla is, but it seems to be 30 degrees with the added 3d printed option. I will absolutely be getting the pre-built as well, as I've very little experience soldering directly to boards. It also isn't that much more considering I'd be also purchasing / figuring out a tenting solution for the Voyager/Moonlander.

That’s interesting to hear. Would you consider moving the row up and getting ride of the number keys? Give you an extra row at the bottom?

@@SohilPandya1 interesting idea, that’s something to think about, only need three rows of keys

Glad the video helped!

I can literally feel the rough texture of the moonlander keycaps. 😅 This one is smoother for sure!

Did you make a decision? Which one did you go for?

@@SohilPandya1 Just got the Voyager. Took 14 days from purchasing to delivery (I'm in EU).

@@immortaljanus Hi, I'm thinking about getting the voyager. Would you mind telling me how you've enjoyed it so far?

That’s a good question around hand size, I won’t be able to give you thoughts on that as I have medium sized hands. I’d love to hear back if you do decide to buy it and how you find it!!

@@SohilPandya1 I've been researching about moonlander a lot, and with some XDA keycaps and the bold tenting mechanism, would be perfect for me. Unfortunately, the cost of importing something to my country plus the currency devaluation, in comparison to dollar, makes the Moonlander plus this features cost the same as a basic motorcycle. So I really need to be sure what to buy. Yesterday I saw a new keyboard that just been put for crowd funding, it's called Naya, and is very interesting one. Their keycaps are just something else. If you like modules, than make sure to check out this keyboard.

You could probably whip up some 3d models to hold one for you whereever you wanted it. Wouldn't really be 'thinkpad style' but it'd be close

@@heisenballs I mean by that logic I can make entire product customized for my specific needs but I'd rather have nice injection-molded plastics, machined aluminium and premium finish... I'm no stranger to DIY - I've done my own joysticks, throttle units and button boxes for flight simulators but at the end I gave Virpil a fat stack of $$$ and got quality product instead - because they've done what others (mainstream peripherals manufacturers) wouldn't. Also I'd like my trackpoint to be between keys so you don't have to move the hand at all while typing just to move the cursor which would require demolishing the entire unit :P

would work great with linux but windows is dreadfully mouse-driven. Maybe a lenovo style red bulb would be a nice addition to these keyboards

Thought about this, but the trackball would have to sit on the desk and require an even longer reach. I also considered clamping the two ML halves to the desk itself, but that makes it problematic when using the desk for other things. Then I got thinking about a keyboard shelf. Could better suit my needs and keep the desktop cable free. I'll have to investigate wobble/stability for those. One negative on that idea is that I'm now even further away from my triple monitor setup. With the desk being so deep, they're already at max extension. Everything will become easier once trackpoints or trackballs become standard on split keyboards. Back to your original idea: I did come across some rather industrial looking DIY efforts. They involved heavy camera stands and looked like two branches sprouting out of a tree. Attached to the underside of the chair. Seem to remember there being issues with feeling metal lumps through the Aeron mesh seat. Afraid I didn't bookmark it so can't provide an URL.

ZSA company made a prompt response to our trackball/nub feature request. They just haven't found a suitable technology yet. I'm impressed by that level of customer service though.

@@mrkrud Yep, ZSA are a top notch company. Easily in the top 5 all time best I've dealt with. Hope the trackpoint/trackball does one day find its way onto one of their models. Would never trust myself to build a keyboard. Probably end up full of dry soldering joints, then unable to sell used.

Glad it helped!

If you're looking for a columnar split board, consider checking the local second-hand market for a Kinesis Advantage 360. Though its retail price can be high, like $400 there's often a good selection of used ones at lower prices, around $250 as I've noticed in my country. If a columnar layout isn't a must and you're primarily interested in a split design, the NocFree could be a good option. It's a split wireless keyboard priced around $150.

Nope, haven't tried it so can't give you my thoughts on it. How about you?

You’re right but I had the same though when I went from the ergodox to the moonlander 😂

Dang. I was on the fence about buying either the moonlander or voyager, since my Dactyl Manuform of 10 years finally kicked the bucket. That's unfortunate if it's the case about Zsa. I'll probably go for some updated version of my Dactyl manuform with usb-c and probably wireless option, as well as hotswap switches.

…really? What replacement parts have you needed from ZSA? This is kind of out there.