Jetoptera has been silent for years, I wonder if their tech has run into problems. Would Lilium have use for such bladeless fan tech?

Thank you for sharing.

whole germany is Laughing about Frank Thelen... why do you have him in your Video?

👏

The Lilium founders have been talking for years about its potential... but there's where it stagnates: talk. Still no decent let's say 20 minute test flight with 4 passengers incl. vertical takeoff and landing.

How do you think they've managed to amass so much funding as they have if they're no good? Is it possible the investment people don't know what they're doing and haven't got educated people like yourself to analyze their white papers and tell them if it's feasible or pie in the sky stuff? What's in it for them or what can they gain by sinking so much money into something that's not feasible?

I’m a pilot, and I believe that Archer has a design flaw which is going to come back to be their ruin.

Would there be any benefit to using different rotor designs on different motors? For example, could you have some motors which are cruise optimized and others which are hover optimized?

I’m also interested to see how both compare in noise levels. Nasa did acoustic testing back in 2022 for Joby. Very impressive stats for Joby especially when compared to many other aircrafts. I haven’t seen any acoustic validation for Archer yet. Would love to see Archer’s and how they compare at take off/ landing and full transition flight.

Great analysis. You validated my points I’ve been saying about Archer as Joby seems to be the winner when compared against each other. I believe the drag of the rear motors and extra weight alone is enough to rule out archer. I have never seen a full transition of flight in any released video from archer. Which been a RED flag for me as I do like there cockpit design but see many negative factors to their design choice and choice to use a gearbox. I have some electric motor experience since 2005 and I can tell you, a gear box is a negative for electric motors as those gears will need constant maintenance and eventually a full replacement.

Was sagt die Community zu inzwischen folgenden Fakten: - Batterie ist bekannt und ermöglicht vollbeladen 175 km + Sicherheitsreserve nach EASA-Anforderungen - Diese Batterie wird bereits gebaut nach der bereits fixierten EASA-Konfiguration für alle Sicherheitsanforderungen und weit über 800 Schnelllade und -Entladezyklen hinaus (1Stunde), die dem Businesscase von Lilium entsprechen - Es gehen bereits hohe Millionenanzahlungen von Lilium-Bestellern ein, die sicherlich alles geprüpft haben und vom Fach sein dürften. - Es sind bereits die erweiterten und ab 2026 einsetzbaren Batteriespezifikationen bekannt für eine Batterie mit ca 400 wattstunden / kg, so wie sie bereits von mehreren PKW-Produzenten avisiert ist und die damit bis zu 30% Reichweitensteigerung ermöglicht.

Lilium is designing a Vtol for Future energy sources, and they shall continue. It is obvious that today’s energy density of latest batteries are not meeting the expectations, we all know it, Lilium knows it too. Sirius came out with a copy of Lilium‘s design with a significant change : hydrogen fuel cells.

Thanks for your detail video, that's really helpful. I just wonder how could you get the conclusion that Joby is using an axial flux design?

Velice přínosné dokumentární video. Fandím lidem, jako jsou ti ve společnosti "Lilium".

Why would the graphic ask "are there 6 or 12 gearboxes" in the Archer design? Since the Archer presentation clearly implied a 6:1 reduction gear ratio, the rear rotors clearly cannot be effectively driven without reduction gearing - the torque to the rotor would be far too low.

I don't see any justification for the assumption at 7:38 that Archer's front and rear rotors are required to produce the same lift force. If the centre of mass is closer to the front row of rotors than the rear, which is likely, the front rotors will need to produce more lift.

The narrator's audio is really muffled - not low in level, but not clear.

The Lillium concept is a brilliant idea but VTOL is very wasteful of energy so short take off and landing would be a better route to follow.

Great videos, John. I'd love to see a high level video on what architectures you think are best for different business models. Also love to get your thoughts on Overair's butterfly

What an amazing 100+mins of content! Can't wait for your future analysis

Can you do an update on Lilium?

Great video. Please keep up the good work. Very much enjoy you videos, John!

Amazing work, very detailed presentation! Thank you for the effort given

I don't even think motors matter at all. Its all about the battery. Thats why they are all bunk.

If I were Lilium and were confident of my investors, I would not be goaded into releasing _any_ performance data at this point. Why give potential competitors even a hint at what I'm doing?

Dayumn! This was very detailed, great work. One small addendum, small fans=very, very low efficiency That is something no amount of money or buzzwords can change, ever. When i first saw this, i just dismissed it as another CGI money grab for the uninformed.

Won't work ☝🏿🧐

Guys! Look through the history of such future oriented forages into the wild. Of course it takes craptons of money and time, of course it's all controversial, of course it's super risky. To me this looks smooth op relatively.

Thanks for that very detailed expose, John. Very helpful.

Sounds like Elizabeth Holmes Stuff.

릴리움은 성공할것이다!

This video has a lot of good information and data, however, the constant use of "rotor" where it should be " propeller" makes one question the validity of the rest of the data. These props are either constant speed (collective pitch only) or fixed pitch. There was not "cycle" control introduced in the video, which would be a characteristic of a rotor..

Its realy needed a quit 18:58

The speaker at the Joby presentation mentioned that their direct drive motor had been patented. I imagine you could perhaps answer some of your questions about it, if you were able to find that patent. I did some brief searching online, but the closest thing I found was a Joby patent on Justia for an "Aircraft propulsion unit." This doesn't seem to be for the motor itself. Perhaps the patent has been filed, but not published, yet? Or I just wasn't looking in the right place....

Such a great video material! The best is that with your high-level technical work on this video, you attracted a really knowledgable crew of commentors that only enrich more this. Please continue doing these analysis at this level or even higher. I loved to see the technical details, the backed-up data, and conclusions. I just discovered your channel and I am subscribed now

High speed rotors such used in of ultracentrifuges to extract isotopic fuels have to be suspended in fluids or in magnetic or electrostatic fields so one might consider cryogenics since electric propulsion has been patented since Victorian times if only galvanic batteries could store enough energy. My MIT colleagues have electrochemically loaded isotopic fuels as deuterons into materials and of course "Omni Future Almanac" by Bova & Wiels claimed likewise antimatter could be stored in crystal lattice matrix of boron.

LIllium resembles "Aurora" they used to advertise in "Popular Science" while "Jane's All the World's Aircraft" claimed such a company in of Bay Area Northern California only tested it's jet engine of few or no moving solid state parts. Still it resembles a personal jet craft used by "ruling Alpha + class" in of 2020 film production of Huxley's "Brave New World" where they fly past a crematorium of recycled fertilizer before they reach rocket plane port of upward angular acceleration suborbital flights.

I have designed better motors, jet engines, and rocket engines along with a bibliography of technical sources.

Kamov stacked rotors like what "Inspector Kido" uses in of film "Man in the High Castle" is best proven configuration in terms of disk loading given how it is skeptical if galvanic batteries even with caustic alkali Groups I to II metals such as Al or Mg could power a VTOL. "Jane's All the World's Aircraft" had an article on a Tesla bladeless turbine for a rotor and of course Coanda should be well known. Still A Tesla fluidic rectifier along with rotorless or shaftless ducted fans are already being used by some designers.

❤ for me its nice to both are in servece 2:14

In a system where the energy problem is solved perfectly (for example, 10,000 km+), maybe we can do great things in transportation. But I think this will lead to other unpredictable consequences. If you agree, can I please have your comments on these problems and possible solutions?

eğer işin içinde veya başında alman varsa çok büyük bir ihtimal yalan söylüyorlardır.

So what does that say when my gut feeling matches your very thorough investigation? I say: this will not fly. Even if they get this thing into the air and get some range that is remotely useful, there are regulatory hurdles over which they have no influence. To be useful this thing needs to go pretty close to where the customers want to go, and that is most likely not an airport. I have a pretty good idea what my neighbors would have to say if this thing lands anywhere near. Edit: Lilium announced this week (week 48 / 2023) that they have started production of the jet. The first aircraft are to be used for flight tests and certification. I am wondering what exactly they are building.

What many EVTOL designers tend to do is miss the fact of air turbulence during VTOL lift and do not consider calculating the extra constant balance exceleration of each motor needed to maintain stability of VTOL level hover. This also applies during all levels of control using the motor power. Were as in a helicopter,rotor flight controls are used to keep level flight, however in a EVTOL during VTOL flight power is used to control and maintain hover level. The more turbulance the more power is drained from the batteries thus cutting short any flight paramiters.

The best design of the type of VTOL aircaft would depend on the intended use by the user. That is what the user operation of the VTOL is going to be, VTOL lift and short, medium or long range straight flight. The shorter the range the bigger the VTOL rotor size and lift design as most of your power and fuel use will be required and used during VTOL flight. Hense the smaller the VTOL lift rotors the more fuel is used during VTOL. So if an operator intends to use such aircraft for short range and more VTOL lifts, it is better to have a helicopter rotor or tilt rotor due to a bigger rotor size, as in the long run less fuel usage. During a straight wing flight less fuel is used due to a fixed wing lift. So the best design for long range VTOL flight would always be a single or a double tilt rotor design such as the V280. For heavy lift and constant Short VTOL flights a helicopter rotor is more suited. One main helicopter rotor or contra rotating rotors will always cover a much bigger lift area thus being more efficient and more powerfull compared to a smaller number of lift fans or rotors grouped together.

I have archer joby lilium evtl and evex❤

it's odd how archer is calling motors engines. These are definately electric motors...no need to try to call them something else.

수치로 비교하면 정확하지만 저처럼 비 전문가입장에서 볼때는 아처 미드나잇 기체 프로펠러 숫자 9개 조비 s4기체 프로펠러 6개 ... 이것만 봐도 조비 모터가 더 힘이 쎄다는걸 추측해봅니다...

Of course it's a scam. Compare to the VLJ-craze of 20-odd years ago, with marketing pitches and business plans galore assuming thousands of 'air-taxis' deployed and buzzing around. And that was true and tested 'old'-technology, still didn't work and ended in a lot of money burned. Rinse and repeat. Only now we have industrial designers at work with little idea about the tech involved, a complete focus on cool looks instead of efficiency and the whole "eco"- and 'green'-BS on top. Journos love it, the p.r. is massive, the fake promo videos are professionally polished and the money just pours in. And surely, certification is always just around the corner ... Only a pity that these bubble ventures are not listed, therefore hard to short.

Archer is very focussed on redundancy for safety and their presentation was very open. More motors means more weight. It appears that both companies chose the wrong motor!