No, we don't? Video games can have artistic elements in them such as music and writing, none of us have ever denied that fact, but those elements, though _they_ are art, are separate from what a video game is... Personally, as someone who recognizes that video games aren't art, I more-so think it's really dumb for you people to _want_ them to be defined as art. Like, why do you _actually_ even want that? Do you just want video games to feel more special, more high-brow, to be more respected as serious media or recognized as mature in its own right? Because, if so, then maybe take a moment to consider this: All literature is, by definition, art. This means that books like Twilight and 50 Shades of Grey are, by definition, also art. Something being "art" does _not_ mean that it's not also complete trash... By contrast, there are video games like Bloodborne, certain titles from the Final Fantasy series, the Elder Scrolls, etc, that set bars so high for what a video game can be that it's highly questionable if any single piece of "art" will ever be able to measure up to them.

@@GrahamChapman My comment was to be taken as an obvious joke, but i can be serious about it if you like. There are a lot of definition of art, but one of the most popular is the simpler: Art is the product of an autor trying to express an emotion, an idea or a reflexion to an audience using any media. I like this definition because it tackles instantly the eternal debat we have everytime a new form of art become popular: is it really art? We had this discussion about Cinema being just theatre with a camera in front of it, or Comics (especially Europeans) being too childish to be consider art. This definition include a lot of form of art, some of them not popular, or know at all. And it obviously include video game, since it's a way to express those ideas, as proven by a large amount of titles that i'm sure you are aware of. Other definitions include the fact that each piece of a single field of art kind of resonate with each others, wich is easy to see when the art get older, and i could argue we already witness it in the video game world. To answer your personnal question, yes, i would love to see video games being taken for what they are. All my life, my passion was taken at best as a childish hobby worthy of bullying, at worst as a dangerous tool that make people violent. Being recognize on the same level as the cinema would be a nice change. And i don't understand your counterpoint... There are bad piece of art? I mean... Yes? If a bad piece of art is a piece that failed to express what the autor wanted to, then there are a lot of bad movies, bad books, bad songs, bad games, bad painting, bad anything really. I don't see how that is relevant to the "Is video game art?" debat.

@@Groskaykay I mean, you can't really deny that you phrased that joke pretty provocatively. Surely you realized, as you were writing it out, that you would get a reaction for it sooner or later, no? Anyway, by your definition of art, wouldn't people who spend their time writing keywords into AI image generators argue that the images that they algorithm into being are "art"? 'Cuz, Imma be honest with you: As an illustrator myself, I find that idea partly laughable, partly offensive, and partly outright dangerous. In fact, I don't think a single serious, self-respecting actual artist on this planet would ever dream of regarding AI generated images, music, or literature as "art", or regard the keyword writers as "artists"... On the subject of cinema and comics: Tbh with you, most of them aren't art. Not because cinema is "just theatre with a camera in front of it" (these days it's honestly not even that anymore anyway), or because comics are "too childish" or something similarly small-minded like that, but simply because the mediums themselves cannot be defined as "art"... I feel like I'm talking in abstracts so, to make my perspective a bit more concrete, I'll put it this way: Every panel in a comic is a work of art, the same way all illustrations are art, from basic doodles to the most complex classical artworks. The script in a comic, too, is a work of art, the same way all literature is art, be it high-brow works of fiction with elaborate plots or just ye average run-of-the-mill low-brow smutty fanfic. Comics, as-in the medium, are not art however. (Similarly, art lexicons are not works of art, no matter how many illustrations of famous paintings, pictures of music sheets, excerpts from works of classical literature, or other artworks that are included in them.) There are exceptions to this rule though. For example works where the fact that the story is a comic is itself incorporated as an indispensable part of the art and story, meaning the art/story wouldn't have been possible to present in any other context or medium except for as a comic. (E.g., Gwenpool, Invincible, quite a few stories by Grant Morrison, etc.) Video games, too, are similarly limited to being "not art" by the medium they are: Pick up an old school video game cassette and/or a CD, or ponder more modern digital-only releases, and ask yourself: Is this art? Sooner or later, somewhere between hardware and software, texture packs and hit-and-hurt-boxes, video games leave the definition of "art" behind... That's not to say that I think it's impossible for a video game to be "art", it's just that the criterias are very steep. I do feel you though. As a millennial, gaming and comic book reading have been among my hobbies my entire life. And, as you've observed, for most of that time video games have been looked at with ridicule or worse... I mean, it's not like our entertainment is alone in that regard: Conservatives have always been scummy about mediums that let kids explore ways of thinking that free them from conservative small-mindedness... I mean, consider how much criticism the Harry Potter books drew from conservatives, and then consider how quiet that criticism got when JKR came out as a TERF and people started noticing all of the colonialist elements in the HP books. Still, even then I cannot in good conscience side with the argument that video games are art, nor am I a big fan of changing the definition of the word "art" to include video games... I've accepted that it's an uphill struggle for video games to be recognized, respected for what they are, and not looked down upon by snobs... But it's also an uphill struggle that we are slowly winning: We've got people like MarcoMeatball, a former opera singer-turned-YT reactor who focuses on video game music and is of the opinion that classical music lives on in the video game landscape. And you know what? The colleagues he invites to react to video game music together with are generally in agreement with him on that. As for my point about there being bad art: Kinda ties in to the above paragraph, honestly. You want video games to be recognized on the same level as cinema, yeah? Well, do you think all forms of literature is recognized on that level? Let me tell you, you're _not_ going to get a whole lot of people enthused by letting them know that you've read 50 Shades of Grey. You're far more likely to impress them by talking about how the final boss fight against Kefka recalls Dante Alighieri's Divine Comedy and Michelangelo's Pietà, how Dancing Mad evokes Bach's "Preludes and Fugues" and Handel's "Messiah", and how the conflict between Kefka and The Returners has all the thematic elements of a classical drama... and, honestly? If someone _is_ more impressed by 50 Shades than the grand finalé of FFVI, then maybe it's _your_ time to scrutinize them for the quality of the "art" that they enjoy? This comment got way longer than I thought it would be. Sorry about that. ^^;

Darkness burrows in when we fall Morning will reveal us after all Curtains wide, say you'll run with me Captives we were called, but now we're free We won't stop until we say we're done We'll return the world to what it was Stuck behind, it's not a flaw They don't understand the webs we are We won't stop until we say we're done We'll return the world to what it was Glacial thoughts, they linger, then they die Grateful we were not sold for a price We won't stop until we say we're done We'll return the world to what it was We won't stop until we say we're done We'll return the world to what it was They will never catch us on the run We'll return the world to what it was

It originally came from Facing Worlds in the 99 version.

I'm glad you enjoyed it ^_^

​@@stephenkennedy3020 in my memory, i have download a giant bundle of ost from final fantasy 7 ( original, pianos collection and More ( and i found a remix album in it. ) instanly love it !! Very old memory yes.. liké 12/14 year , i can't remember exactly.