Hey Jesse, First time I watch a video from you. Generally I get the impression, after watching almost though: you went from one extreme to the other. From "hyper-charismatic" to "cessacionist", from experiantial-focused to intellectual. How about looking for the middle ground? hope you find that on your way... I would really argue for your stance (like many of the cessationist/calvinistic etc., whatever exactly, in the end the "anti-charismatic" camp) is over-focused on intellect and theology. like only valuing and acknowledging the intellectual part of human reality and dismissing the emotional and spiritual.

it seems to me like you are looking for a theologically founded exact method and pattern how healings would always work. I don´t think that´s how God is and works, and neither how charismatics think of it. It´s about a relationship with God and being led by him and acting in faith.

23:50 how about the miracles (like healings) that do happen in/with bethel - do you acknoledge them?

20:45 not to confirm US, but to confirm THE GOSPEL! (see book of acts)

19:40 I understand your point. BUT, if Jesus represented and displayed the father in a perfect way to us, and he healed everybody - than how can I not assume that the will of the father is to heal everybody? That you would need to explain to me. Don´t get me wrong by the way, I´m really trying to find the truth in this whole issue, about the topics themselves, and also about bethel. I´m not writing just for arguing or neither for defending Bethel.

ok, one more, a question: does it take away anything from Christ, to believe I can do miracles by the power of God working through me? why not? does he stop being God or the Saviour because of that?

if they say "tons of good and true stuff", (which I also think they do, from what I know, which is much less then you) - then it´s quite a bit more then just "2 times a day" out of all the 24 hours. so, wouldnt´it be actually more acurate to see it the other way round? that they a right in most things, and especially believe and follow the true Jesus, but might be wrong in some points, or loose track here and there, or exaggerate or something?

explain to me: why should we not? - ...expect miracles etc.? so many indications for that: Jesus as our model (and we his disciples = trainees), "those signs will follow those who believe", "leans the leppers, heal the sick, raise the dead, cast out demons", you will do these things and even greater ones"; then the disciples walking in it and the wider early church... just to name a few, which come to my mind right now.

Thank you for your heart in sharing this information. Both to Mike Winger and to you as well. I have been a pastor for 30 years. Every year I deal with someone or someone's who are at the very least confused by "Kingdom Now" Theology or are trying to implement it at our church. This is a massive movement. And it is not moving anyone toward the coming Kingdom of Christ, it is giving Lucifer a foothold in their lives to be deceived into the New World Order.

Thank you!!

The church needs an alternative to CCLI... There needs to be a reformation that releases new songs to public domain after initial payment. The artist name then should be stripped from the association of the song. The credit for those songs should be ultimately going to God.There needs to be a basic belief standard that these artist need to be held to to receive 1 time payment. The CCLI model is holding the modern day church hostage to either play footsies with the devil or fall behind the times in modern worship... Its so sad. As a worship guitarist I am arguing with my self as to why I even participate in this stuff... Breaking my heart.

25:09 we can also see a precedent from Scripture on this. James 4:13-15 says that when we plan for our life (specifically when we plan for our business or professional life) we should have the attitude of “as the Lord wills”. This shows that we should walk in humility when it comes to the will of God. For example, if a pastor/teacher were to get up on stage and declare that God would grow the church by 100 people that year , without the inspiration of the Spirit, he would be presuming. So it would be the same with healing. If we do not feel a prompting from the Holy Spirit that a person is to be healed, we cannot *declare* healing and must ask, and if we must ask we need to recognize that God sometimes allows His children to become ill in this life (Job, Timothy’s stomach disease, Paul’s thorn, Paul’s ailment in Corinth) God desires in His heart that we be healed (that’s why there’s no wheelchairs in heaven), but this side of heaven we may have to endure a trial of sickness or injury.

Part of the issue is for many Christian’s, they’ve fallen into the 11th commandment…thou shall be nice.

Hey there! I saw your Testemony about Bethel Church and I just came out of the Carismatic Deliverance Movement and yes was teached about casting out Demons of born again Believers, Spiritual Warfare but by the grace of GOD he opened my Eyes a few weeks ago🙏❤ Problem now,I lost almost all my so called Brothers and Sisters and I really would like to know how you dealt with alk that nasty Comments after you left!!!!! Cause I feel like Everyone is against me now Blessings to you and your Family 🙏❤

Bill: "We don't condone sin." Requires students to give false prophecies.

It might be fun to have your favorite non-charismatic interviewers and preachers answer the BSSM application questionnaire in a truthful and honest way, and then perhaps more in a satirical way like a Chris Rosebrough Prophecy Bingo Card.

For me the eye opening came when I read Mark 13:22. Signs & wonders will be used against God’s people in an effort to deceive the elect. Jesus says in John 10 to know His VOICE! For me it set a trajectory for a massive change. Prayer & study of God’s Word, may all who are truly lovers of Jesus take heart to focus there and the deceptions will unravel.

The way they chuckle over sonething they think is so profound makes me ill. They know exactly what they are saying. Sick!

Currently visiting a church heavy on Bethel's teachings, which I'm not fond of at all. They also recently went treasure hunting and asked a woman meeting their "descriptions" (who knows from who or what those thoughts came from) and asked her if she doesnt have this one physical ailment, can't remember which exactly, uponwhich she said something like no, thankfully not. Not sure what happened then but I can only imagine how weird it must have been for her, and what damage it could have done to her view of christianity or christians. This video is a great study material of a direct experience and an unbiased critique. We need this discernment.

Thank u soooo much! 🙌🏼❤️‍🔥🙌🏼

First time listening to you. Excellent. Wise. Keep preaching the Gospel brother!

Dang- if you're not seeing those kinds of miracles, you're not in lock step with the Father?? Talk about LAW that will never be fulfilled by any human. They put heavy burdens on people that they themselves cannot carry

Bill..."my buildabear is named "Jesus"

Well, the devil knows and uses scripture ( truth) too. It's all to break down the authority of clearly stated Scripture, and the devil did/does that, and bill does that for his own buildabear named "Jesus"

Even when I Steel-man their position they reject it. Out of the 100s of conversations I’ve had with friends and family about Bethel all of them besides 1 or 2 still love Bethel and Bill and the ones that don’t weren’t convinced by me or my arguments. I’m convinced it’s a cult of personality just like IHOP.

Part 2?

There are no scriptures saying the gifts have been ended or aren’t given. The confusion is that someone believes that because it’s a gift it means that it can be wielded whenever it wants to be… No, that is not true and I don’t believe there’s any example in the Bible of somebody who has a gift that can willy-nilly say you will be healed and they are healed every single time. Yet it is a gift and my experience is that some people pray for others, and they’re healed and healed, pretty frequently compared to anybody else that they know who pray for people to be healed, and it doesn’t happen often… In that circumstance, I see that as a gift that that person has, but not that the gift is manipulated by themselves. Rather that God has gifted them with a ministry that flows in healing where as other ministries flow in greater measures of other necessary parts of the church.

The sad thing is when abused people exit the charismatic NAR movement and adopt secessionism. It’s two extremes. My hope is you don’t shun prophecy and the gifts because of your experience. These are true - You were abused. The gifts are not dead. Also greater deeds don’t have to mean to do more than Christ’s sacrifice. That’s a certain reach that quenches a secessionists need not to fail. Listen, if teachers don’t get it right all the time, and if they have to learn and make mistakes… Why wouldn’t you hold the same standard for other gifts? There are schools to help teach, there are techniques that are to aid and expand your teaching gift. Our Christian culture seems to believe that it’s OK to leave teaching in the category of acceptable failures and then ignore the other gifts altogether. Paul encourages us in the gifts. And except for teaching in James 3, we are admonished to receive them and use them for the benefit of all. James encourages us to be extremely strict with what we say if we are a teacher. He explains that it’s better that not everyone be a teacher because of the degree of strictness a teacher is judged by. I was not with Bethel as long as you and I did not go to BSSM. I do have questionable experiences from my days going to Simpson College and spending my Sunday’s at Bethel. I do understand some of your experience. I also do have at least one friend who went through BSSM who seems to not be leading a godly life now. Bethel is extreme. I’m very sorry that you’ve had your experience, but I’m also grateful that you’ve chosen to share your testimony and give listeners an inside look to your own experience .

Apple doesn't blaspheme God, preach a twisted gospel, or tell people how to interpret scripture. They little if anything to do with Sunday morning worship.

Marie are you playing from the reform playbook or not. You and a bunch of you young bucks like Alan Parr and others have tried to say that Isaiah doesn't mean physical healing. Yes it does mean spiritual healing physical healing. We see that in the gospel and Matthew 8:17 ... after Jesus had done many miracles he did them in fulfillment of what Isaiah said to by his stripes we will be healed . What is it with you guys to come out of Dallas theological seminary like Costi Hinn . Who after years decades been in his uncles ministry he all of a sudden doesn't believe this stuff.?

I don't know where you got that from Bill Johnson never taught something like this. I'm beginning to warn it did you really go to the school. And how is it that you fell away for several years. And now you're back praise God. And now you're this armchair theologian trying to correct a personwho's like fifth generation pastor and has been preaching the word of God all his life. It looks to me that you're using this podcast to make money by bashing Bill Johnson and Bethel

I don't know where you got that from Bill Johnson never taught something like this. I'm beginning to warn it did you really go to the school. And how is it that you fell away for several years. And now you're back praise God. And now you're this armchair theologian trying to correct a personwho's like fifth generation pastor and has been preaching the word of God all his life. It looks to me that you're using this podcast to make money by bashing Bill Johnson and Bethel

At 8:15 with the reference Psalm 76:19, there are only 12 verses in that chapter. In Psalm 77 there is a verse about water. Is this the verse you meant to reference? 😊

Bethel. Where do I begin. Bill Johnson is a false teacher preaching a false gospel. So many people have been destroyed by Bethel. Grace sucking. School of Supernatural Ministry. The entire NAR movement is a cult and it’s dangerous. We know people who got totally sucked in and we tried to warn them but they wouldn’t listen.

Around 26 min, Bill calls praying “if it’s your will” a prayer of unbelief. Jesus prayed it, and He taught it in the Lord’s Prayer. If Jesus is perfect theology and He modeled that, how can it be a prayer of unbelief? I’ve heard Bill teach this a number of times, and I’m guessing he won’t pray it because it would wreck his own theology. I continue to pray for all at Bethel and all who are being influenced by Bethel. Lord, please have mercy.

It's a tragedy! The Christ was the Perfect Man, who was anointed by the grace of GOD and received these miracles through GOD, with this given power from GOD, the only one, Abba YHWH! That's why He could say. Whoever has seen me has seen the Father... (in action and commission) Jesus had lost authority from the Tree of Knowledge in 1 Adam redeemed! That's why it had to be a whole, real person. No Hollywod GODMAN. The 2nd Adam comes from heaven, but is fully human with a family tree. The first earthly human being was also created by God's spirit, Ruach. And God is spirit. And you shouldn't! take a picture. But Christ is mentioned as an image of God. So he can't be GOD. No matter what you call him, son of GOD or GOD the Son. Precisely because of this mistake, because man wanted to be EQUAL TO GOD, he came from the grace of God. At the tree of knowledge. Shalom

It is the typical doctrine of hypostasis that the majority of so-called Christians have. The idea of ​​Jesus is also GOD, consubstantial with the Father. To us the 3rd person of the Holy Spirit. A False Gospel. And Christ did not pre-exist as an angel, as Jehovah's Witnesses believe. The doctrine of the Trinity is widespread throughout Christianity. The dogma Council of Chalzedonia has existed since 351 AD. But it is unbiblical and not inspired by the Spirit of God. Paul always distinguishes between GOD the Father, the only GOD, and the Messiah, Jesus Christ. Jesus himself also refers to the Shma Israel. Also John 17:3 1 Corinthians 8:5-6. The Holy Spirit is The Spirit of the Holy One, of GOD YAHWEH Himself in action, Dynamis.

Thank you for solid words.

Once a so called apostle like Johnson curses apostle Paul, a true apostle, it's time to get out of bethel and find a solid pastor and church.

Dear Jesse I so feel for you in this, and your heart is doing well, I feel. I’m also chewing over these things so I’m eager to know how other people are processing these concerns. I just wondered where you are with Asbury now, a year later. What became of it over time? How are those people doing now, do we know? I’m glad you’re sensible about the messy idea, which is true of humans as well as oxon, but shouldn’t be an excuse for things going to excess! I was very encouraged that you felt it was sweet and beautiful and you helped me not to be too negative. Bless you brother.

Johnson lost me for good when he accused the Apostle Paul of teaching a false gospel. Nuff said.

Shifting the atmosphere sounds like new age mysticism. So is this guided visualisation.

Thank you Jessie for covering this, I am glad to see your videos again. I came out of a school of supernatural in CA started by 2 Bethel graduates. My eyes were finally opened when they started preaching we no longer repent for sin! They were heavy advocates of "The Passion Translation" and also "The Mirror Bible" (leans toward little gods theology). Please keep pointing out that BJ diminishes the sovereignty of God, and the true miracle of a saved soul! May our gracious Father and the Lord Jesus continue to change hearts and open eyes! God Bless!

The problem is Bill Johnson is a WOLF in sheeps clothing. Yes he may say the occasional thing that's right but that makes him just as dangerous as the things he said that are so wrong. People want to give him a little grace but that's not what Jesus did with the the church leaders of His day. He called them exactly what they were and he said it in no uncertain terms. He didn't praise them for any good they may say or do, NO! He went straight to the point. This is what we must do, not give any credence to anything good they say. We must give no quarter. People may say "Well that's not very loving". I beg to differ.

Isn't it just simply pelagianism? That's always been my beef with the Charismatic church. Hardcore will worship. Even remembering Bill's origin story talking about having his first encounter and basing it on how much he was desiring God and that's why he had that encounter. It's exhausting basing my relationship and union with God based on my own abilities and will.

Thank you. Very helpful. I appreciate your even handedness

I really liked what you did here. You were just being honest about it all and what you think and where they are coming from, its healthy even if you get some things wrong, who of us understands it all anyway but we learn by listening to stuff like this and thinking it through. We can all learn if we listen to each other, ask God to help us and compare what is being said with scripture... ...this type of humility helps us to see our own blind spots and to move on... Im from the UK and i attend a charismatic anglican church in Watford, Soul Survivor which has been through some stuff recently. Im very interested in Bethel because ive known the history of dominion theology (william branham / kansas city prophets) but thought it had gone away until 2019 when someone said to me that bethel were into grave soaking.. At the time i thought she was some mad s african woman until i looked it up... and then realised that NAR was the new name for dominion theology (formerly latter rain, manifest sons of god)... My husband and i were about to do bethel zozo training and quickly back tracked !! since then ive looked into holly pivecs stuff BUT STILL I HAVE BEEN GRAPPLING WITH, WHAT DOES THIS MEAN AT GRASS ROOTS - WHAT ACTUALLY GETS TAUGHT that is wrong at the pulpit level if you like... THis video has helped me think this through some more... there are people in my church who are into bethel teaching etc so its quite close to home...

45:47 Bill Johnson says I dont condone sin... however Ive heard him be dishonest about 3 times on line.. eg he claimed that his chapter in The Physics of heaven was taken against his will and put in that book but that cant be true as one of the female editors is his church secretary, his assistant pastor does the intro, his late wife has a chapter and he does the conclusion - hellooo !! then i heard him say it wasnt on their book stall they didnt pay much attention to it... but then i heard an ex bethel person Lindsay say it was on their book stall... and then you (the westwoods) saying that the contents of the physics of heaven (2012) is absolutely what they get taught at the bible school.... and giving examples the bible clearly says that God sends deception to those who deliberately dont do whats right (2 Thess 2:10-12) and reveals the truth to those who do.... it is one scary verse... 2 THess 2:10 They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

Thanks!

Hello, question here. I went to IHOP a couple times and got a prophecy from someone that seems to confirm something I was thinking praying about doing in the future. It was very specific and seems to really confirm what was in my heart. Since then, I don't know if that was truly God. Do you think you can get prophecies or words of knowledge that are not from God, but from a spirit who knows your heart and thoughts and is playing on that.