Check out these articles. ~Abby thriftyhomesteader.com/rotational-grazing/ thriftyhomesteader.com/life-on-small-acreage-goat-far/

@@DeborahNiemann Thank you for the quick response! I should have specified how long should I wait to switch fields after worming? I have 2 out of the 5 that I have wormed.

@@chrisslunt269 If you only have two fields, that is not rotational grazing. You need to have at least five or six paddocks so that you can move them weekly, and they stay off grass for at least six weeks or longer. You are probably giving them an area that is too large and could easily sub-divide each field by using temporary electric fencing, or if you only have five goats (adults and kids), you could use livestock panels as explained in the article about life on a small acreage goat farm. With five goats in livestock panels, that's 16 x 16, so you'd probably need to move them every day or two, but the good news is that you'd have no parasite problems because they wouldn't be coming back to the same grass for several months. As for your specific question, it depends ... if the goats have a FAMACHA of 5 and poor body condition, ideally they are taken off grass entirely and kept in the barn until they have recovered so that they are not ingesting more worm larvae. Since you have mom-baby pairs, I'm assuming that would mean the whole herd would wind up in the barn so the kids can keep nursing. In YOUR specific case, I would move them to a new pasture right away -- but that would need to be a pasture that has not been grazed in at least 6 weeks. If you leave them there for only five or six days, as explained above, then you don't have to worry about them consuming more larvae because that's how long it takes for the eggs to hatch and mature into infective larvae. Perhaps you could put a 16 x 16 livestock panel pen in your front yard or some place where no one has pooped for many months? If kids are nursing and getting enough milk and kept off wormy pastures, they should not need a dewormer. When our kids first go out in the field, they go on grass that has not had sheep or goats on it for six months. (because it's spring, and we keep goats in the paddock next to the barn all winter)

@@DeborahNiemann This was helpful, thank you! Working on splitting the fields today:)

You're welcome! We're happy to hear you found the information helpful! ~Abby

Hi! This is Abby. I help Deborah respond to messages on social media. I'll let her know about your questions. I would like to ask: What's the breed of your baby goats? How old are they? And what is their current weight? Also, check out these articles and video. thriftyhomesteader.com/how-many-kids-can-doe-feed/ thriftyhomesteader.com/preventing-coccidiosis/ thriftyhomesteader.com/raising-baby-goats/ thriftyhomesteader.com/what-do-goats-eat-it-depends/ Supplementing Dam-Raised Kids: kzfaq.infodlT0Je64_Ww And feel free to give us more information that might help us answer your question. ~Abby

I hope you've had a chance to check out the videos and articles Abby shared. Without knowing the specifics of your situation, I can't give you much more info because the answer is always "it depends," so if you check out those other resources, you'll learn more about the various factors involved. I do NOT recommend anything higher than 16% protein about 99% of the time.

@DeborahNiemann sorry for delay. Average gain is 3.6 oz per day. 2 weeks old Nigerian dwarf. I did look at the other videos.

@@ginnytr Two weeks is where you usually start to see problems because the kids' birth weight should double in those two weeks, which means their consumption will double. Some does can't keep up with that, and if you're talking quads, you'd have a goat in the top 1% of milkers nationally to be able to produce enough because ND kids need a quart a day starting around 3-4 weeks, and very few ND can produce a gallon a day. They need 20% of their weight up to 32 ounces a day, so the bigger they get, the more milk they need, the harder it is for mom to keep up with what they need. The sooner you start to supplement, the easier it will be, although by two weeks, they will probably act like you're trying to poison them. In the early years, I had a couple of "happy to be starving" babies who died from starvation because I didn't try hard enough to get them to take a bottle. Too many people online were saying, "Don't worry! A doe can raise quads!" People who do that are not weighing the kids, and by two months, they'll have kids that range in size from 12 to 20+ pounds, and the little ones wind up with bad parasite problems. There is no feed that can provide the concentrated protein and calcium that milk can when kids are so young with such tiny tummies. They have to drink their nutrition to get enough.

Rabbit and goat coccidia are completely different -- as are chicken coccidia, etc. They are all species specific. Transmission is fecal-oral, so unless another goat was eating something that came in contact with feces from the sick goat, they wouldn't get infected with THAT specific coccidia. However, it's worth noting that all goats have some level of coccidia unless they've been living in a sterile room. It does not usually grow out of control, however, unless a goat -- usually only kids -- get stressed. Just in case you want to buy another buck ... I also noticed you said "he" about the mini LaMancha, and you have a ND doe, so I wanted to mention that you should not breed a bigger buck to a doe of a smaller breed. If you have a ND doe, you need a ND buck for breeding her. Otherwise, you could wind up with birthing complications if she has a kid that is too big for her to birth. I used to raise mini LMs, and their kids are 6-7 pounds while ND kids are usually around 3 pounds, so that's a big difference.

@@DeborahNiemann this was SUPER HELFUL!! Thank you very much..

I figure since the mini lamancha was a male and a mini and that the mini’s are a % of Nigerian dwarf that she would be fine being the female. You have prevented me from making another mistake as I was in the market for another mini male but I will stick with a male Nigerian dwarf as her mate. I have a lot to learn and she is still young (folks say don’t breed her til she’s a year old) so I have time. I think I’m just going to put the brakes on anymore goats for the meantime and do my research on them in the meantime. I really appreciate your time and advice, thanks again. 1 more ? What should I clean the pen out with that I had the mini in or should I move it all together?

@@Jamie-nc7tx If the kid was in a grass pen outdoors, Mother Nature will take care of it within a few weeks. Age is not as important as size when it comes to breeding. An ND doe should be at least 40 pounds before being bred (about 2/3 of their adult weight). This is assuming they are healthy and growing normally because you want them to continue growing through the pregnancy. In other words, I wouildn't breed a 2-year-old 40-pound doe because she is likely done growing and probably had a parasite challenge as a kid that stunted her growth, meaning that she has the genetics for normal-sized kids. I have seen does that small give birth -- but only if the kid is small enough. Although I have had a couple of does give birth to 5# kids, I also had one that needed a c-section for a 5# kid.

@@DeborahNiemann ok, I need to weigh her, she’s about 4mths now and everything seems to going good. Haven’t had any problems with her at all. Well other than she blaaa-blaaa’s quite a bit when I leave 🙄 lol.. That’s really good to know about the pen, I’ve left it alone in the sun (but it’s rained quite a bit too lately) trying to do research to figure out what to use to clean it so I can regrow the grass n make it safe for my rabbits again as it was originally their exercise pen before the mini was her. I’d like to return that area safely for the rabbits to run around in while I’m cleaning cages. When I was researching a lot of things were saying you have to incinerate anything the goat touched and wasn’t super thrilled about lighting my yard on fire, lol… It’s nice to know that Mother Nature will help with cleaning that area. Your videos are extremely helpful and I really appreciate you taking the time to reply n lend some advice.

Hi Sarah! Deborah did a live video on what she thinks about Mineral Buffet. Here's the link. ~Abby kzfaq.info9FmQpVZSsGA

You're welcome! We're glad to hear you found the information helpful! Also, check out these following articles and videos. ~Abby Goat Bloat: thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-bloat/ A Beginner’s Guide to Sheep: thriftyhomesteader.com/a-beginners-guide-to-sheep/ Hoof Rot in Goats: thriftyhomesteader.com/hoof-rot-in-goats/ How to Trim Sheep Hooves: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/sKp7ZKeknNmqgHU.html Castrating Sheep With a Burdizzo and a Side Crusher: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hZ-Plq2Hv-DdZWw.html

You're welcome! We're glad to hear you found the information helpful! ~Abby

You're welcome! ~Abby

Yes, Purina makes a goat grower feed that is medicated. Most feeds labeled as "grower" are medicated. Look at the feed tag, and it will say "medicated." Usually it's a different color other than white or has a stripe on it or something meant to get your attention. If there is a percentage in the name, that's usually the percentage of the drug so that's another clue that it's medicated.

A doe needs 1# of feed per 3# of milk produced -- that's it, assuming she is healthy and not underweight from parasites or anything like that. If it's a Nigerian and. she has two kids, they need about 1 quart of milk each, so that means that she is producing about 4# of milk, so she'd needs 1.3# of goat feed. If she is only on the stand once, you can give her half of her grain on the stand and the other half in her pen. it's better to split it between two feedings per day.

Worm eggs don't hatch and mature into infective larvae for about five days, so moving them more often than that is not helpful. In fact, I'm worried if you're moving them every two hours that you're probably bringing them back to grass too soon. The larvae can survive for at least 4-6 on grass, longer if it's raining a lot because they bascially die by dehydration. So the goal is to move them every 5-7 days and not to bring them back to the same grass for at least six weeks or longer. Hope that helps.

You're welcome! We're glad you found it helpful! ~Abby

Aside from dragging one leg, what are the other symptoms you saw? Also, check out this article on Meningeal Worm: A Nightmare for Goat, Sheep, and Camelid Owners. ~Abby thriftyhomesteader.com/m-worm-nightmare-for-goat-sheep-and/

@@DeborahNiemann just the one symptom, but I didn’t want to wait for other symptoms to arise. Figured that would be to late. That was my thought process

@@DIYWhitetail No, you don't want to wait. Some of the symptoms overlap with those of goat polio or listeriosis, but if this is all you saw, then that's probably m-worm.

If you can separate them with a fence rather than a solid wall, they tend to get less stressed because they can lay next to each other on the fenceline. If you don't have too many kids, you can put them in a wire dog crate in the stall with mom so they can lay down next to each other. Ultimately it gets better as they get older and accustomed to it.

Of course, there are exceptions. Unfortunately, a lot of people think that if a kid won't take a bottle, it's not hungry or doesn't need the milk. That's wonderful that she took a bottle so easily! It didn't have anything to do with covering her eyes. It's not about what they see. The movement required for getting milk out of a bottle is different from nursing on mom, which is why kids have a hard time switching. And the older they are, the harder it is.

Somewhere around 6-8 ounces a day. If you're weighing them, you'll see what the average is. You don't usually have to worry about twins, but it's still a good idea to weigh them. We had a single lamb that gained nothing the first day, which made us think there might be something up with his mom's udder, and yep, she had a horrendous case of mastitis!

@@deborahniemann2398 Thank you, and I do plan to weigh them this time around just to be sure everyone has the best possible start :)

That's great!

That was the first thing I thought when I saw them! Somehow it seems like they would look especially sad with poop all over them -- maybe because they're trying to hard to be cheerful. LOL!

@@DeborahNiemann 😅

Yes, it does when given at 2x the dosage on the label.

Yes, it does when given at 2x the dosage on the label.

A single goat in a herd should not have mineral issues like this if the whole herd has a good mineral available free-choice. Do you have a loose goat mineral available for all of your goats? If yes, what brand? Goats should also not be deficient in A, D, or E unless they are locked inside a barn 24/7 with no sunlight or green food, meaning that they are eating old brown hay. A and E are abundant on pasture, and goats make vitamin D from sunlight just like humans. Simply giving more grain and BOSS is not a cure for what you're describing. What brand goat feed did the mom have available, and what has the kid been eating?

If they had the same sire, then it could be the sire's fault.

If you want milk, I would not use a buck that was not 100% dairy goat breeds. Some boer goats can barely make enough milk to feed their own babies, and they have terrible mammaries. I've seen boer does with teats so close to the ground that kids can't nurse -- and it is NOT because they have a lot of milk; it's because they have poor attachments, which is genetic. Remember, a bad milker costs just as much to keep as a good one, so it's better to have good milking genetics. You need to dilute the boer genes as much as possible to ensure you get good milkers.

Hi Linda, this is Abby. I help Deborah respond to messages on social media. I'll let her know about your question. We're glad to hear you found the information helpful! In the meantime, check out this video and article. When should I start milking my goat? kzfaq.infonNeqLwy_usA Learning to Milk a Goat: thriftyhomesteader.com/learning-to-milk-goa/ And if one of those does have a single kid, here's a video on Dam-raising a single kid. kzfaq.infoW7RLg5xLGvE ~Abby, Thrifty Homesteader Team

Probably wait until they're a little closer to 25# or so. A 1/4 Nubian won't be a lot bigger, but they will likely be at least a little bigger unless the Nubian is very small for her breed.

If she is 22 pounds at 3 months, that's not terrible, assuming she is a Nigerian. I expect them to be 20 pounds by 8-10 weeks, and it sounds like she hit that mark. Some grow faster like her sister. She is probably eating when you're not around, or she'd be a lot smaller. A high level of coccidia can cause a problem with absorbing nutrients in the intestines, so that could be why she weighs less than her sister. I talked about how slow weight gain is a symptom of coccidia in a video a few days ago titled "Healthy kid found dead?"

@@deborahniemann2398 yes, I saw that video. I am learning, and started separating at night to milk, before they hit 20 pounds, so now I know better. She is still nursing, so she's still getting that, and browses well. Thank you. Not milking now, giving everyone a break while we deal with the Coccidia. I'll continue to offer her feed as usual. Just don't know many goats that won't go for a treat.

You're welcome! We're glad to hear you found the information helpful! ~Abby

Deborah does not sell t-shirts anymore, but she still sells mugs. ~Abby thriftyhomesteader.myshopify.com/products/mug

I had a problem with the supplier, but I might start selling them again at some point.

So sorry to hear about your goats. Here are articles you might find helpful. ~Abby thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-worms/ thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-worm-myths-and-misunderstandings/ thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-dewormers/ You might want to check out Deborah's Goats 365 Membership, which includes six online courses with videos and printable handouts: thriftyhomesteader.teachable.com/p/goats-365

That's another option but then we wouldn't be able to see through it.

@@deborahniemann2398 ones that are not as wide

Check out this article on Goat Worms: A Complete Guide to Winning the War in Your Pasture. ~Abby thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-worms/

You can google - raw milk testing in ‘your state’ to find a lab that does testing for individuals. You want to submit for Somatic Cell Count, Standard Plate Count, and Coliform Count. It may be easiest to call to get instructions and possibly also supplies for sending samples. I highly recommend you take the free training offered by RAWMI :) You will learn about what these tests mean, what range you should be in, and how to make changes to improve test results. ~Tammy

I bought a gallon of it about 20 years ago and still have more than half of it left. it's just a saturated salt solution. I quit doing fecals because I never did one that changed my mind about how to treat a goat. If it failed the 5-point check, the slide was covered with worm eggs. In fact, the 5-point check is now recommended instead of fecals for deciding when to deworm. There are a lot of reasons you can have a "negative" fecal -- including human error -- and I've seen them give someone a false sense of security when they had a goat that was terribly anemic and really needed a dewormer. Plus, you can do the 5-point check every day or every week and it's free. How often do you really want to do fecals? A goat can go downhill really fast with barber pole because one female can lay 10,000 eggs a day, which means they can fill up a pasture with worm larvae FAST if you're not doing rotational grazing religiously. For more on this, check out thriftyhomesteader.com/goat-worms/

You're welcome! ~Abby

As long as they have 50% alfalfa, that should be good if they are only nursing kids at that age. Their production is not going to be much at that point.

If I recall, you have kids, and they need alfalfa for the high calcium and protein because they are growing fast. I think you're in Goats 365 already, and the nutrition course goes into all of this in detail because the answer to your question changes as they kids get older and ... lots of other factors come into play when talking about what's the best diet for a goat.

Run-in shelters are totally different than a barn where animals are trapped. We use straw. It composts faster than wood shavings. We don't use stall mats in our run-in shelters. In fact, the only reason we have any is because they were left by the last owner who had horses. You don't need something absorbent if you're on dirt because the pee will get absorbed by the dirt. Plus your cows will spend very little time in a shelter, which means they won't pee in there much. This is assuming your cows are on pasture and you're not feeding 100% in the shelter. That's more like a barn situation. We have never cleaned out a run-in shelter, and we only use bedding in winter because it insulates the animal from the ground, which is why we use straw. It's warmer than shavings.

I'm so happy to hear that you're finding my content helpful! With 1/4 Nubian thrown in, I'd expect them to gain a little more -- at least 2# a week -- so if they've gained 10#, that sounds pretty good. I would expect a yealring first freshener to be able to nurse twins without any problems if she's a decent milker. I don't usually let them try to nurse triplets. As you found, they usually make than more than enough in the beginning but as the kids grow, their demand increases. So she might have been able to make enough for three in the beginning but usually around two weeks you see one of the kids falling behind.