I'm subbing to you purely because you're straight to the point and fair but most importantly you said Mag as in Magazine for fictional future guns based on IRL guns. So many KZfaqrs and just people in general still call Mags Clips like everything is a Bolt Action Rifle and uses Stripper Clips. I don't expect people be knowledgeable in guns. Nor get mad or all bent out of shape if they say clips. Some people just don't know the difference and many others just don't care. Not a big deal. One can learn and the other doesn't care. It's just nice when someone is and uses the proper words. Not here to argue with anyone. Just my opinion and something I like when people do that's all. Not that deep. I feel I have to say this because we can't have opinions anymore without someone wanting to verbally joust "Well actually" or just go ballistic on you for saying what's on your mind.

Good list, fair takes. “If someone on your team brings it, I’m happy. It’s kind of like having 20 stun grenades, but it automatically targets things and it just makes your life easier,” that sounds like an S-Tier description to me. -EMS Turret Enjoyer

That D tier smoke grenade is outright criminal. It stops tanks, turrets and gunships from shooting because unlike other bots they don't have a 'fire in this general direction' mode. It works almost like a stun on berserkers except they will just stand there for the duration of the smoke because they can't see you so they don't run for you and the amount of times i've been able to cover a teammates retreat or my own by throwing smoke and running with it between me and most of the bots is insane. Bring a railgun and a supply pack and just chuck those babies everywhere while you clean house, they're amazing. I'd still put S&P and lib pen in 'needs buffs' because there is literally no reason to ever bring them in the state they are right now. Otherwise solid list and breakdown. Good to see the purifier get some love, i love running fire support with that thing and there's a rythm to bring it and the railgun that's really nice.

something that could make the flamethrower potentially really good without breakinng it is making it so that every x projectiles from it takes off 1 armour level on whatever it hits so that 2 or 3 seconds of direct fire brings down the armour class of something by one, it'd make it great as a support weapon to combo with medium pen stuff vs heavies or light pen stuff vs medium groups, your machine gun would do double damage to devastators that have had a flamethrower on them and stalwarts could start affecting them, hulk bodies could be targeted by so many more weapons if you could stun and burn it for a couple seconds and it emphasises group play if you still make it so flame throwers don't do damage until the enemy gets down to it's own armour pen, like flame thrower solo would still take a while on hulks and need multiples stuns but with just one ally it's trivialised

Cookout is an amazing weapon for high tier bugs. But we must keep this secret as arrowhead swings the nerf hammer harder than Thor

something people never mention for the diligence CS is the amazing stealth factor, especially since this update's release. it has a very low sound profile compared to other weapons and the fact that it can 1 shot devastator heads as well as now the new rocket striders if you hit their rockets, allow you to clear out an entire lightly populated objective undetected or at least cut the enemies down to just a hulk or tank. its amazing. pair it with the AMR and now you have the stronger one with better pen for the more intense gunfights as well as something to quickly 2 shot the hulks and mag dump the tanks your CS couldnt handle. i think this weapon combo is highly underrated as it excels in stealth and range and does extremely well in full on combat

My problem with the mines is that one bug can set off half of the mines via explosion

Honestly even though the stuff on c tier is worse than other options it’s all still usable and can even be extremely fun with the right build. Tbh the bot front is peak helldivers when it comes to not really feeling too restrictive when it comes to loadouts and just being able to ball out or have fun regardless

I still think the sickle is S tier even after its nerf becouse it is pretty skill capped

Tried Dominator again and I still prefer Scorcher because it let's me damage Cannon Turrets and Hulks from the side to finish them off. Plus, no smoke plume to obscure my vision.

if you bring something like a precision strike or rocket pods, ive found that the commando is on par with the autocannon, its great against tanks, hulks, and allat, and if you dont use it in combination with your team, you can very easily make it last the full cooldown, another thing is the dominator, it can take on every mid tier enemy, and thats where the commando comes in, its a good fallback against everything

Should give mechs a small dash booster that's on a cool down that would let you dodge rockets and cannon shots

It's insane how top heavy your list is.

Grenade Launcher is so situational, only reason I'd use is it to close bug holes

My eradicate missions look like this all 4 of us run laser 380 120 and walking call them in once we see a bit drop then run out of bounds to get that barrage from being a traitor and we clear them and extract in 2-3 minutes

Railgun one shots hulks in the he with full charge or close to full

I'll have to disagree on the purifier. It is a B, or C+ tier at best. The problem is, while you can make it work in specific contexts, those are very narrow ones, and the minute things get hectic, it cannot help you get control of the situation again. It's not something that slots into a loadout, it is something you have to build an entire loadout around, and it does not give much back for all that.

I was in a level 10 bot mission the other day and one guy was sniping bots over 50m with the bushwhacker. It was crazy.

A bit late, unfortunately, but I did some more testing on thermites. Since the change they made to prevent thermites from softlocking the 'destroy orbital cannon' objective it seems that thermites now properly damage automaton tank turrets, and not only their hulls. This means they can now kill annihilator and shredder tanks (haven't found a rocket tank to test it against yet) in just one grenade toss provided it sticks to the turret. Paired with this change, however, is that it seems like their performance against hulks is less consistent now. Very rarely am I getting 2 to kill a hulk, it's usually 3, sometimes 4, and when it is 2 its taking longer than the math says it should. Probably not enough of an upside to balance the downside to move up a tier, but you should be aware they have much better utility against tanks now. If your build doesn't include stun grenades thermites might now be a viable option for your tank-killing needs.

The Jar-5 is without question the best but ONLY if you use peak physique. The handling without is 🤮🤮🤮 With explosive resist armor, I usually just run sickle. You can 2-tap devastator heads and I’m mostly using AC or railgun for them anyway. Diligence CS can be nice but when you’re getting aim kicked it can be quite infuriating

Smoke grenade deserves B+ Tier. Very useful for steath builds.

I don't think there need to be changes to weapons just because they struggle on one of the fronts. It makes more sense for some weapons be more dedicated to certain fronts. Like Laser Cannon is good against bots and flamer is (still) good against bugs. Only weapons/strats that really need changing are ones that struggle on all fronts.

Maybe instead of designating lists on S, A, B etc as this could mean different things to different people. Give the names from your perspective, e.g Highly Recommend Recommended Neutral Not Recommended Or you could try something like: Excellent Good Satisfactory Unsatisfactory This way the poor and trash tier weapons are lumped together. You can still order them if you want, but by removing a "trash" tier and just combining them into a "I would never use these" tier then you *may* hopefully bypass some of the moaning.

The big Shield generator in C is criminal. Shield Generator + Autocannon is a devastating combination, you get all the boom boom that an autocannon brings while behind the safety of your giant fuck you bubble that prevents aimpunch from the 9 bagillion minigun devastators around you. I would make the shield gen last longer if it needs a buff but even as is. Its insanely good paired with the Autocannon. Just dont get walked at by chainsaw dudes, your autocannon can and will stun them.

Video should be called "Mental gymnastics to justify insanely weak weapons"

I love the plasma punisher. Ive been using it on bots for a long time. It has only been recently that i have actually played with others that use it though. The new rocket striders make it really difficult to use on 10 though

Your chat is well regarded and highly artistic.

the scythe is way better than the sickle

I think having the tenderizer in the same tier as penetrator, lib- carbine and fire breaker makes it look way worse than how it performs in the battlefield. Specially if you're accurate

I appreciate a different opinion, but the purifier is awful. It can do so many things, but it just does it all so poorly.

I think the tier list is pretty good and your reasoning was enjoyable to listen to. I would place Tenderizer higher into A tier (above Punisher, roughly equal to Adjudicator) since its exceedingly low recoil and surprisingly high damage make it very capable against all forms of troopers to stop bot drops, devastator weapons/heads/stomachs, and has the DPS to drop berserkers. Precision, damage, and rate of fire all wrapped into one weapon is for sure A tier. I would also rate frag grenade lower than smokes. The only thing they have going for them is that they can kill fabricators and open containers. Takes around 3 of them to kill a devastator and they really only do a good job when place directly next to the target so more of the frag will hit. What is the point of a wide AOE frag grenade which requires precision placement to get any real effect from the grenade? Personally I think they are in dire need of a strong buff to carve out a niche, either more fragments or have it be the grenade which allows a diver to carry more by default (more bad grenades = more fun at least). Liberator Carbine is for sure C tier. It is almost unusable against bots, which is fine in my book because I like it quite a bit for bugs.

C tier for ballistic shield is nasty work. I think that’s harsh. It’s still really good against all the non-rocket projectiles and you’re getting smoked whether you have a shield or not if you’re getting hit by devastator/tank/turret rockets. I’d have it low A/high B, especially paired with crossbow

Railgun, rocket sentry, walking barrage, orbital airburst (thermite) : Paired with my friend who uses spear and various other stratagems Both walking barrage and orbital airburst I have found to be exceedingly useful since the buffs. Walking is super nice so I don't have to go completely out of position or put my self in as much danger to engage something like mortars, and they have performed quite well in suppressing bot drops (big radius and the first 2 volleys are very close together near the beacon). It is roughly as capable in a defensive role as it is for offense, so pretty good. Orbital airburst is great for many of the larger patrols or when 20 devastators roughly group up. Wide area of attack and tends to delete everything with medium armor in 2-3 blasts. I like the combination of deadliness and that it is fast in its attack, so I can quickly move into that spot instead of waiting around while getting in an increasingly bad position from other bot forces. The only thing I don't like about it is that sometimes random fragments will fly like 50 meters, where most of the time it is safe to be around 35-40 meters away.

I’ve been surprised by how much the scythe fits a niche for my build -It makes quick work of infantry at any range. Medium long range especially useful to prevent a bot drop from being called. -Good vs the infantry on mounted machine guns where you need that accuracy. -It sets berserkers on fire and a quick beam to the head makes it so they immediately go down with the help of 1 grenade pistol shot splash. -I cover the scythe’s weakness with the help of the railgun which 1 taps any devastator, scout strider, or hulk. But for a close range devastator the scythe melts them once you get your aim down (just don’t do it vs shield devastator if it’s already aimed at you)

It’s not April is it? Purifier in A tier lmao

Crossbow is great as a primary when taking the hmg, as a utility tool mostly

I feel like the order of your rankings makes sense but the tiers are not properly describing the state of the weapons within them. The entirety of C tier is filled with weapons that fail to fill any niche in a loadout and the same could be said for the lower half of B tier. The grade of B and C should denote weapons that have at least some viability in certain situations, there should be a moment where I want to put away my support weapon and use my primary/secondary to handle a situation but none of these weapons have that characteristic

best HD2 content on YT. <3

I'd like to see of them buff the servo assisted armor to also increase reload and bolt racking speed. Would make the eruptor more usable and QOL for support weapon reload. Or to add a new armor perk on its own

What's the point of using the slugger over the dominator? I feel like the dominator's heavy weight and slow muzzle velocity are only minor challenges

Nice to see a KZfaq doing helldivers content that isn't just hating on the devs or calling the game dead

Please do a tier list on the armor passives etc

Plasma punisher is S their, better than scorcher imo. AOE stagger is amazing when you are getting rushed and great for clearing large amounts of T1 bots I know T1 is never an issue but when you can fire to shots and kill 10 of them and keep running its pretty valuable

The scorcher for me has dropped significantly as you said for two reasons: the existence of the new rocket striders and the gunships now being easier to kill. A-tier. Previously S

Your tier lists seem to me to be objectively correct to a large extent. Thanks for making them, I always enjoy. Please keep up the great work.

I like your list. That being said, I really want the shrapnel back on the eruptor. Obviously also giving it its lower damage back as well, otherwise it'd be a bit busted. But shrapnel is what made it fun for me.

Purifier as A tier lol ok dude 🗑️😂

Your the second person that put true Purifier that high. I will give it a chance. I just wander what is pairs well with?

Pen 4 Eruptor?

It’s hard to use anything but dominator, love that thing.