That is a great question. Age of coffee can be an issue. The only way to know if the coffee is still worth roasting would be to roast it, like you did. The other way is to measure the moisture level of the bean itself. Most of us don't have a way to do that. The seller should have a quality control system which includes documenting moisture content of the bean. Generally speaking, this takes place when the coffee is being exported and also when it is received by the buyer of the greens. With regards to your experience roasting different coffees, you are absolutely correct. The Ethiopian is going to taste more sweet and fruity than the monsoon malabar. That is because they are totally different varietals, densities, bean size, and so much more. They will roast differently and taste differently. When I roasted my monsoon malabar it smelled moldy and tasted swampy and dirty. Does your seller provide farm details like harvest date?

@VirtualCoffeeLab I will have to check with them,it was 1 time I was using them,mainly because they are the only game in town and for now I don't like to buy online and pay shipping. And yes my Malabar was testing moldy and swampy,I guess that's common characristic ot that coffee

Thanks for watching Greg. I get what your saying. I think one of the point I was trying to make was the importance of lowering the rate of temperature increase to allow development without over roasting (roasting darker than you intended). For me, our target temperature was about 398f / 203.3c. I appreciate your comment.

Hi Samuel. It was hard to get an exact temp because the heat gun influenced the probe. The high temp displayed was 402f / 205.5c but after I removed the heat gun the temperature dropped to 396 / 202.2c while the probe was still in the bean mass. This is one of the challenges with air type roasting. When the bean probe is placed in the bean mass, it is reading both the hot air temp blowing into the roasting chamber and the bean temp. It isn't a reliable source of Bean Temp alone, BUT is still helpful to determine roast progression.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you for your feedback!

Thanks for watching. I'm glad you have enjoyed my content!

Thanks for your kind remarks. I’m glad my videos have been helpful. Generally speaking, the longer the development and the darker you roast, the lower the acidity . Accomplishing this on the behmore could prove to be very difficult. If it wasn’t the Behmor, rather a traditional drum roaster, I would try a faster, high rate of rise with a steep declining ROR. Keep the middle phase around 2:45 long and then with a ROR that will push you through first crack quickly, drop the coffee just before second crack. If your ror is high enough, it could be about a 2 minute development. Now, how can we do that on the Behmor? Hmmm, pre-heat to 225f with chaff tray and drum. Turn off roaster. Pre-heat again and charge 200 grams of cofffee and in manual mode, roast P5 till first crack (which should be a pretty fast crack)and then go to P2 until just before 2nd crack or 2 minutes, whatever comes first. Not sure if that will work but that is my best guess. I don’t usually roast like that. I would be interested to hear how your roast goes.

Thanks for sharing Edward. I’m glad you’re doing well. I’ve really enjoyed my DuFluid experience. I roast different coffees each week and find the brewing configuration needs tweaking when I go from coffee to coffee. Using the app has helped me understand the impact of grind size, water temperature, ratios, pour method and so on. As a matter of fact, I e totally changed my brewing recipe because of the app and the refractometer. When testing the same brew over and over, my results have been consistent. As for the app, no issues with contrast but there are some features that are not obvious. Assume you can touch almost anything and it will respond. No “button”type stuff, just numbers, arrows and icons. It super intuitive but I’m getting use to it. Maybe the display and interface has changed since you used it? How long have you have your R2? Maybe difluid will exchange it?

Hey David. Thanks for watching. The blower sounds like a cool idea. I'm assuming you are roasting outside. Are you happy with your roast quality and quantity with the Behmor?

Thanks for watching and subscribing. What are you roasting coffee with?

@@VirtualCoffeeLab IKAWA home

Hi Steve, sorry for the slow reply. I was traveling. I personally use the BT but I know there are roasting professionals who use the ET as their charge temp. I don't have a strong opinion either way as long as your setup (between batch protocol) is consistent. For example, air, charge weight, and drum speed are the same settings at charge from roast to roast. What have you been using with your roaster?

@@VirtualCoffeeLab thank you

Nice. Glad that worked for you. Correct, don’t do a soak with the cube. Figure out a way to measure your heat settings. You said “medium” but see if you can create markings on tape or something with more specific increments like “two notches above medium” and then use those as references in your recipe.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab oy vey. Thank you for the suggestion. I roasted my good beans and they look like crap. I don't understand. The old bad beans I've been saving look great. My speciality beans are uneven and ugly. I tried to use the same heat application all 3 times. Maybe just maybe, these beans are like the Miramar beans I had a couple weeks ago. I believe those were dried out too much or not enough. Idk... I try so damn hard and I get frustrated and upset. You know my situation and buying great coffee is a luxury so I feel upset when I fail to roast well. I'm going to take a step back for a bit and come back when my head is clear. I'll see if I can send you a few pictures Have a great rest of the week. Take it easy my friend.

Does your roaster have the metal grates between the chaff tray and the drum? I usually don’t roast darker than 16%. My drum speed is pretty high which knocks off the chaff. I also have air turned up pretty high after first crack, which will suck out chaff before the end of the roast. Thanks for watching!

What moisture loss are you aiming for Matt? What batch size have you been roasting?

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I'm roasting between 500g and 625g. Shooting for 12-13% moisture for light and around 13.5% for medium light. I usually hit my medium light moisture target with development around 17% but my flavors are not pleasent. It never tastes properly developed.

How long are you waiting before you drink the coffee? What are you using to brew your coffee? How long are each of your phases (time, not percentage)?

⁠@@VirtualCoffeeLabat least a week and even longer sometimes. I use aeropress, kalita, v60, and hario switch all with similar issues. My last roast was 4:15 dry, 1C @ 7min, drop at 7:20 (195C at 1C drop at 201C).

This is difficult to determine Matt. Let's look at this from 2 different angles: First, the roast. There is a problem with the roast - You mentioned "ethiopians", but you didn't mention the process. I will assume the bean size is pretty small. The beans probably don't look super light. What are the notes you should be tasting. Is is a Yirgicheffe? Your moisture loss is in line with the roast level you mentioned. The one thing I noticed that I would do differently is to slow your roast down a little. Your total roat time of 7:20 is a little short for my tastes and you might find going longer may allow for more overall flavor development. Aim for a dry time of 4:30, a FC time of 7:30-7:45, and a drop at 8:30. I look at the phases, times, and percentages to help me set milestones BUT I also. take a step back and make sure my overall roast profile will allow time for the miallard reactions. I'm sure the coffee is really dense and you don't need to worry about roasting defects much. Also, with my M10, I'm cranking the air up pretty high towards the later part of the roast. I've found myself at 70% air in development. Of course this all depends on how much momentum you have. I'm curious, what is your ROR when you enter FC and when you drop the coffee? ok, the second angle is brewing. There is a problem with your extraction when brewing: You mentioned several different brewing methods. Are you able to measure Total Disolved Solids? What is your brew ratio ? Are you grinding fine enough? What kind of grinder are you using?

You bet 👍

None yet but will add some in the near future.

Sorry about that Bruce. Yes, I have a 220v version. What sv were you using for a charge temp for 900 grams? What was your air set at charge?

@@VirtualCoffeeLab I am not sure what sv means. I need to look at your channel and learn more 🙂. My charge temp is 220C and air is 0% until I drop the beans into the roaster then I have it at 15% and I don't adjust till first crack then I lower temp and more air so it slows ROR. Temp Return 76C @ 1:04/Dry End 131 @ 5:35/FC 198 @ 13:58/ FC End 201@15:16?Drop 202@15:42. Thanks.

I also have drum turning at 40% all the time

Bruce, SV means "Set Value". That is the temperature setting you would select for your charge temp. Then, when you click "start heating", the roaster automatically heats up to that level and holds until you charge the roaster. For the M10 at full capacity, I turned my SV up to 230c which is max. Then at charge, I left the power at 100% with air at 10%. What was your power setting during the first 5 minutes of your roast? My Turning point temp was about 15 degrees higher than yours. That tells me your charge temp was like 210-220c? Does that sound about right? If you are running 110v that could be the difference, I'm not sure.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Okay great I appreciate the definition. My SV is 220C like you suggested and what I was doing for a lot of my roasts was charging the roaster and wait for the turning point and then work within the 85 to 100% range for power up until first crack. Next time I will try a full load (1.2KG) @ 230C for my SV and then I will use 10% for air till first crack and also use 100% power and see what will happen (at least this will give me a reference point). I will let up with more air and less power at first crack and beyond. What do you use for drum speed-on your video it seems to be fairly high? I am at 40% because I am trying to use conductive heat from the drum to help with heating the beans quicker?? Problem is when I use the tryer I need to speed up the drum to get beans to sit in there to look at. Do you think my drum speed should be adjusted to? Thanks.

Jessie, have you contacted espresso outlet about this?

Thanks Shane!

I have the 220v version. I have a dedicated circuit booth and new 220v line.

Thanks!

Glad my videos have been helpful Gregg. I’m glad you’ve been able he get a jump start with your M2. Congrats!

Mine is the 220v version.

That’s why they make smaller models.

Gotcha 👍 thanks for watching!

Only one bad roast that’s pretty good Jerry. Nice job .👍

Yea, so a 1 pound charge weight is max capacity for the Behmor. The only way to get shorted roast time Or to roast light on the Behmor is to lower your charge right to 1/2 lb or less. That will allow you to switch to 1/2 pound setting and the fan will come on at about 5 minutes.

Hi nick, I’ve roasted on both the m10 and the bullet

@@VirtualCoffeeLab what was your preference?

Not really. I chose the M10 for it's capacity, features and cost. The Bullet has some great features as well. I especially like the Roastime software for it's ease of use and especially the homescreen which shows the summary of my recent roasts. Artisan doesn't have that. I also like how the chaff capacity of the Bullet is much greater than the M10. If you're looking for a recommendation I would say both roasters are a good decision. It all comes down to your needs, budget, and preference for the design and features. There is a big difference in price between the two. My M10 is plugged into a 220 outlet. I added that (additional cost) so I woundn't have to worry about blowing a fuse or something.

Hi George. The Roma is more similar to the sr800 in the way it roasts. The Roma pro has both the auto mode and manual so it’s kind of between the kaffelogic and the sr800. The kaffelogic is a smart roaster and in a whole different class as far as technology, the way it operates, and so much more. It is also a small capacity roaster at 100-200 grams max. The Roma will be a good machine to learn how to roast. You will have great visibility, and, if needed, the ability to use the auto mode. Roasting light on any machine takes some practice. If you watch my video about roasting light Nordic style coffee, you should get some ideas. Congrats on your new roaster

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you! I really appreciate it. I will watch that video. I think like you say that the Roma might be good to learn from and then after move on to kaffelogic for more consistency and more features.

Hello Zuner. I’m running 220v for my machine which is a 220 version. I created a dedicated 220v line/circut at the box going to a new 220v outlet on the wall. The air conditioner is on a separate meter and should not affect the draw.

@VirtualCoffeeLab I am referring to the reduced voltage at the outlet due to the electrical grid being heavily utilized during all these heat waves of summer. My SR800 is highly effected because my outlet (all home outlets) voltage falls from 121v down to as low as 113.8v during mid day. Therefore, your roast might also be slowed down due to the lowered voltage...?

@@ZuberEUC I use a Hottop roaster rated at 750 watts at 115V and I too am experiencing reduced voltage during the summer due to demand on the electrical grid. I plug my roaster into a wattmeter which displays the voltage while I'm roasting. There is definitely a difference in roast length during the seasons and I have seen voltage while the roaster is running from as high as 121V to as low as 115V. It will be interesting to see how low it goes as the summer goes on. I'm in Chicago.

I don't have a way to check the 220v but it has not been hot where I live so the grid is not overloaded. I generally roast in the evening btw. If I am able I'll figure out a way to test. My current meter plug is only setup for 110v

Thanks for watching and sharing John.

Hi Michael, sounds interesting. Sure , I would be interested in seeing a beta version. Connect with me on my virtual coffee lad Facebook page please.

Yes, the popper is not the best with small adjustments. The watt meter will show you that. So, one way to roast with the popper is to with a fixed temp setting. Find a power that will get you to First Crack in 6-7 minutes. From there, lower temp a little, let crack gently roll for about 1.5 min for a nice medium roast.

You bet Jerry. Thanks for sharing and watching!

Hi KG, I’ve not seen the new clever dripper. I have seen other immersion brewers like the harrio switch. Honestly I’ve been brewing a lot with the Kalita. It is a pour-over type filter brewer. I’ve been spending more time learning about brewing variables and how I can improve. It’s been a real eye opener. So, for now, I don’t have a helpful suggestion with the clever dripper . Sorry about that. What other brewers to you own? Just curious. If you have black spots on your beans then it is probably because of too high of heat. Do you have a way to measure your temperatures? Did you say you were using a laser thermometer? I think finding the right charge temp will really help your momentum.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab hey, thank you for your reply. The metal cube roaster I have has no way I can think of to use a thermometer. An IR would just reflect the outside metal. I have marked the stove dial like you suggested. I have a black pour over cone with built-in filter, it's American Press, malita 1 cup flat bottom brewer, moka pot I got in Italy, Clever Dripper and coffee Gator espresso appliance. In the morning I just want coffee fast and easy. I fill my grinder and I use the "It's American Press" but lately I want a bit more volume so I use the clever dripper. After my stomach pain meds kick in I'll make my wife espresso with frothed milk and ill make myself one for my 2nd cup. 4pm coffee is wild. I fully understand what your going through with the desire to be more proficient in pour over. I can make a pour over but nope... I'll use CD or "It's American Press." Pour over is 2 inconsistent and everyone has a different recipe. That channel Armise (I don't know the spelling) and of course LH has great information almost information overload. I need to roast today. I'll try hitting the beans with softer heat. Did you happen to see that video I sent you from coffee with April? My post is on your development video. I mean no disrespect by suggesting channels to you as a creator, I feel you appreciate information no matter the source. I'll let you know how this next batch comes out. Stay well. Have a great week.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab that's it!!! I quit. I'm done no more. Imma go get nescafe and 25 sugars and flavored creamer. Better yet, I'm going to get a pod coffee pot. OK... ok... I'm not done. I'll never get a pod machine. I'm just pissed off. Mike, I don't get it at all. I just roasted and I was soft with the heat. I extended each phase and pulled right in the middle of 1st crack but these beans still look toasty and darker than I want. I'm going for an even light brown with light brown crease. Maybe, my charge temp was again too high. Man, do you have a video on roasting light? I'm so frustrated and not having fun today. Idk... we will see how they taste tomorrow when I cup both batches from today. Any suggestions? Thank you big bro.

Sharing coffee is a great way to increase your time behind the roaster. Sorry you live in a coffee desert.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab The funny part, my wife drank coffee for over 45 years and then stopped. Now she doesn't even like the smell of brewing. Go figure.

Thanks for sharing & watching Pima.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab you're welcome. Thanks back at you. I learn a lot from your videos ;-)

Thanks for your comment Gary, I’m glad you’ve been enjoying my videos. Ok, so my bean temp probe…….. I’m not sure you can get an accurate bean temp on a fresh roast. This is because the hot air influences the probe. The reason I have my BT probe above the bean mass is: 1. The BT and ET would be too similar I’d the BT was in the bean mass 2. The hot air influences the BT reading and your not getting a true BT when in the bean mass 3. Placing above the bean mass makes my reading look similar to a drum roaster graph and the ET and BT to me are better representations of temps. 4. IKAWA and LINK both use a similar setup as I use. I actually got my idea from the IKAWA. It’s Not a perfect science, but I like it.

That’s why I’m doing this Alice. When I started roasting, there were limited resources to learn. Especially with home roasting equipment. I’m also doing this to encourage others to give it a try. Along the way, I’m trying to be kind, encouraging, and welcoming so people can ask any question and not feel embarrassed 😳 . There is a learning curve for this hobby and it can be frustrating. Thank you for your kind words. I’m glad my videos have been helpful. Thanks for posting. Have a great week roasting!

The Behmor served me well for over 12 years. I’ve roasted some great coffee with that machine. But, as you say, I can get great control and visibility with this method. I’m going to get the non-stick coating sandblasted off the bucket/roasting chamber on the bread machine.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Glad to know the Behmor worked out well for you.Mine in breaking down after 3 years and doesn't roast well reliably anymore so I was pretty disappointed in it for $600. I took a chance on ordering a fluid bed roaster from China recently but it's good to know there's another cost effective method I can use if that doesn't work out.

That stinks. I'm sorry you had that experience with the Behmor. There seems to be a plethora of fluidbed roasters out there. How durable they are is unknown. I would be interested in knowing which roaster you bought. Please share the name, you won't be able to post links here. sorry about that.

Thanks for sharing your process Jerry. I’m glad you’re enjoying your SR 800 roaster!

@Tech2C, congrats on your new M1. You will have a lot of fun with that roaster. The seasoning is more for burning off production oils, contaminates.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thank you. Makes sense.

Yea, I've had a beard and mustache..... not a good look for me. Thanks for watching Joel. I'm glad it was helpful!

Adrian, how are you? Glad to hear you are still roasting on your Hottop. Yea, I've heard others say something similar. They set their batch size based on usage. That is a great idea as long as you can still roast the profile you want. Do you find you need to change the charge weight for different profiles using the Hottop? Some roasters don't have the horsepower if they have too large a batch size.

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks, Mike. Yes, I'm still roasting and really enjoy the end results of my efforts but I do have trouble controlling the 3rd phase especially. Usually it winds up too hot so I have to anticipate 1C a little better. Lately I'm roasting either 227 grams or 252, depending on whether it's from a 2lb or 5lb bag. I have not roasted the same bean with different charge weights so it's hard to say how much of a difference that makes for me but perhaps dropping down to 206 grams will give me better control. I won't be ready to order coffee for a few months so I'll continue with my present profiles. Right now I'm trying to get the Hottop to do an automatic roast profile using Alarms but the first attempt was unsuccessful. I'll try again in a few days. A friend of mine who was a long time Hottop user (since 2006) just got a Kaleido M2 based on your videos and he's enjoying the results as well with its larger capacity. Thank you for the videos. I'll be watching.

Thank you @renatocipriani93 , I will look for those!

Actually, the new models that came out last year (sealed), use a different drum. There is less direct IR light directly on the beans because the drum has narrow slits for the chaff to fall out. It is not a cage-like drum like the Behmor. The IR light does instantly heat the drum. The BT overpasses the ET because of the positioning of the ET probe. The probe is in the back where the exhaust tube is. It measures environmental temperature as the hot air leaves the roaster. The problem with that is the probe is exposed to the IR light. So, as you use less power further into the roast, the IR light is not as intense. Just this fact will cause the ET to begin to decline. Then the rate of temperature increase of the air is slowing also. Between these two factors, the ET declines below the BT. Depending on the roasting technique, the ET can behave like you and I just discussed OR, using a different approach, the ET can remain constant. It all depends on the profile you use. Drum roasters are 70% convection roasting compared to air roasters which are pretty much 90-100% (depending on air velocity). You are correct, as the roast progresses, convection increases. Drum speed is a critical part of the convection process as beans are thrown into the air towards the higher part of the drum where there is more hot air. This is important because slow drum speeds prevent the beans from being lofted and cause less convective heat transfer. Great conversation @renatocipriani93 . Thanks for sharing!

​@@VirtualCoffeeLab Thanks for the reply! As I can see the red light inside the drum, it makes me understand that are some (i can't say how much) IR energy heating the beans directly. Yes, I agree with you that the IR heats the drum instantly, but, as the drum walls are thinner than usual roasters, it doesn't accumulate too much energy. My perception is that the drum temperature is equivalent to the ET probe while the drumm is empty (thinkin of the thermodynamic balance) and become the same as BT during the roast for the same reason (balance with the beans inside). So, I understand there is no conduction (or a few) here because "two bodies in the same temperature are in thermal equilibrium". The convection heating transfer will depend mainly on how much humidity and CO2 are in the air inside the roaster, as both absorbs the IR irradiation and heats the air (analogue to "greenhouse effect). As the roasting process produce both of them (water and CO2), I understants that the air inside the drum has high concentration of water and CO2, then ET registers a "real" (as real it can be) air temperature. This is what makes me think that as BT trepasses ET, we lose the convection heating transfer and became more irradiative. Air roasters imputs hot air inside the chamber, as so classical gas/drum, and this air is hotter tham the beans, pormoting air-to-bean heat transfer. This is what makes me believing in this: At the start we have conduction, convection and irradiation, but, at the end, ir became more irradiative. Meanwhile in air roasters keep the comnvection at the end and drum/gas based (classical roasters) have this 70% convection. Another argument for sustain that there is few conduction is that is jard to scortch the beans in kaleido with propper rottation, doesnt matter is you're using high power and high charge temperature! Late in the roast, the IR came both from heating elemente as from the hot metal of the chamber wall, so you can use less power (watts) and keep heating the beans, using the "walls as a heat battery" that was charging during the early roast with higher power... Lately the heat from the metal and from the heatr will sum. (here I can imagine that the upper wall are hotter that the botton, wich influences in the declining of ET while BT increases) Thank you very much, love your channel!

Thanks for sharing. What preheat temp do you use for your Behmor ? Also, how much coffee are you roasting per batch and how long does it take for you to get to dry end?

@@VirtualCoffeeLab Hi I roast 225g. My charge temp varies with the environment. Mostly roast outside. Varies from 130 to 200. If it is hot out I lower it so I can run p5 the whole time and not hit that 320 mark. Roasts generally are between 10 and 11 minutes. Use. 1lb, 18 minute timer. Fan kicks on at 10:25ish.

Thanks for sharing JM. I think the P5 full power for most of the roast is the big difference. The radiant heat from the Behmor elements is a big factor. I'm not a big fan of direct IR heat as this tends to roast from the outside in but with more intensity. That is why I prefer a higher charge temperature. Then I am able to use less power further in the roast. Doing that allows me to reduce my power and allow ample browning and development phases. I have experienced difficulty lowering my temps to extend these phases for good flavor development. I don't doubt you can use a lower charge temp but this is why I take the approach I do.

glad they helped KG. enjoy your Honduran coffee!

@@VirtualCoffeeLab hey Mike, So I weighed out the Honduran beans. I got 207g. 207÷250=82.8 Is this the correct formula? You stated something like this is called a free pour? With the number, what can I do with it? I think you stated to keep track of other beans density numbers and see how they roast. That this is another piece of info to help us roast. The roasts I made the other day are great, they taste so good. Thank you 4 the formulas. My white board is really coming along.

Sorry for the late reply. I've been traveling and got behind on my messages. No, not quite right. You did the weight correctly but not the calculator result. If you divide 207/250 you get 0.828 so your density is 828. you drop the zero and the decimal point. So 828 is a high density coffee. It should be able to handle more heat, shorter dry if you desire and be less prone to roasting defects ;-). Was that helpful?

agreed. every roaster has its strengths and weaknesses. I love roastime and roastworld. very nice roaster. thanks for sharing, and being a subscriber.

the bean changes color from green to yellow. I determine yellow when there is no more green. others may do it differently. I use this method for every roast.

hi Randy, yes, this was an interesting bean to roast. It really required me to try and control my roaster. i think the concepts, timing of the roast and end results were pretty good for the first roast. You might want to consider lengthening the middle phase about 20-30 seconds. thanks for watching my video and for being a subscriber!

Thanks for the encouraging words Jeff. I’m glad you are having a great experience with the Gene Cafe. Yes, many more roasts with the M2. Enjoyed the experience enough that I bought an M10. That are great machines. Not perfect, but fully capable. I’m glad you enjoy my videos. Thanks for sharing!