New shoes are always fun!

Thanks for this insight. On is somewhat trendy, so it's good to know what people think are the most functional.

Interesting, my Mesa Trail II has held up better than the Scrambler Low, but it's nice to see Xero Shoes has great customer service!

Here you go! :-) kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jM6GlrGgsdeXXXk.htmlfeature=shared&t=29

@@Ruinyourknees oh NICE THank you!

I'm not 100% sure. It appears like they added half sizes and the overall toe box width is comparable. I find these to be wider feeling than some of the other Lems models.

I discuss this in the comments section under this comparison with the Mesa Trail II: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jM6GlrGgsdeXXXk.html . Since I track my dog instead of my shoes, it's hard to say exact miles. At least a few hundred, but they definitely wear faster than I would have expected. They've seen a good amount of bushwhacking, snow, and hard-packed gravel use. The uppers need work, the lugs seem soft (good grip, subpar durability), but the experience has been fun. I keep reaching for them.

Oh, interesting. You had the Boulder Boot Waterproof too? We thought the grip was supposed to be the only change as well.

@@Ruinyourknees Yes and I prefer the minimal soles on the standard boulder boot, waterproof and mid over the grip and summit models (suumit is just a guess based off of the grips). I wish they'd have just added some lugs to the sole. I do want to add that I think only those who want that flat minimal feel will care or even notice. I have issues with my left lateral arch, so I notice. My wife doesn't seem to care. She notices a difference from the feel of her mids but says it doesn't bother her.

@@kitcraft9516 Thanks, this is helpful. They aren't as stylish/lifestyle (more traditional hiking look), but I wonder how you'd like the experience of Xero Shoes boot models ( xeroshoes.com/shop/product-category/boots-mens/ ). My mother actually picked up the Xcursion and really likes it. She has to be careful not to wear them too much, at least initially, because they really work her arches. I'm surprised at changes you mentioned in the Lems boots. Their Primal 3 upgrade from Primal 2 seems as expected, except maybe the cork insole.

@@Ruinyourknees Yeah, the Primal 3's are as excepted! I have a pair of Xero 360s that I use for lifting and I enjoy them. I'll have to check out the Xcusrion, thank you.

The video was short so we tried to make it taller.

This is Brian... I've spent a lot of time experimenting with and testing barefoot shoes for hoops. Generally speaking, most of the shoes just aren't made for the lateral forces of basketball. Xero has a shoe called the 360 which says it is meant for court sports, but I don't think hoops is really the intention (we are testing a pair currently). I don't have the Forza myself and Hanna isn't a baller, but I think the toebox would have trouble with heavy lateral force...though one has to wonder if that strap would help. Might be worth trying on in person if you can. Here's an interesting thing: Xero Shoes built a custom basketball shoe for a Denver Nuggets player and he wore it in the playoffs! I spoke with John, who does product development for Xero, about the need for basketball shoes and it seems they are working on solutions. The KneesOverToes group has been working on a minimalist basketball shoe ( uncivilizedsneaker.com/ ), but it seems the uppers may not be dialed yet. As for me, I'm still playing in an old pair of New Balance Minimus 20v4s, but they are wearing out. Let me know if you find anything good!

@@Ruinyourknees ty for the great response i'll let you know if i find something good :)

@@fregger74 Thanks! Basketball shoes tend to be overbuilt in my opinion and are ripe for disruption by models which promote better ground feel and letting the foot and ankle work through a bigger range of motion! I've been playing in very minimal shoes for 20 years and have never (knock on wood) had a major hoops injury. Guys at the gym are always making comments about me needing to get basketball shoes and yet they are the ones with knee and ankle braces. Thanks for the sub! Hoping to roll out some barefoot basketball reviews in the coming months. I might be able to get some early Xero models to try out.

You may, and you have! Is Cloudsurfer 7 your favorite?

Good question. I've worn them for most runs (2-4x/week) for about 6 months on very rocky and steep terrain with lots of bushwhacking, snow, and mud. Unfortunately for you, I use Strava to track my dog Ruby as a pair of shoes instead of my shoes. Best guess: I've run at least a few hundred miles in them. The uppers are flawed as I pointed out and I'm starting to wear the lugs off of the forefoot too, but I've done a lot of 2000' descents on hard-packed, gravelly surfaces. It's funny though, I went for a big trail run yesterday (~15 miles, 4000' of climbing) and still opted for the Scramblers over any other shoe. They are just so fun to run in and grounded, but more built up than the Mesa Trail so there's less fatigue and less cherry-picking through those half-dollar sized rocks which can sting in Mesa Trail. The price is high for the durability, but the experience has been really fun. A tough call for sure.

@@Ruinyourknees Hopefully, Xero shoes improves the durability on the upper portion of the shoe. Thank you for the review.

Good question. I have a pair of Vivos on the way and will try to remember to make a comparison video as soon as they arrive. In the meantime, Xero Shoes are definitely wider than "mainstream" shoes I've used, but not excessively so. The Altras I've tried on seemed roomier than my Xero Shoes (too much so for my foot), but my Nike Terra Kigers seemed narrower than Xero Shoes, though still pretty wide. I equate Xero Shoes to something like a 2E if you were buying widths, maybe slightly larger.

@@Ruinyourknees awesome, thanks

I’m almost certain you’d need more time to adapt. If your ultra is right around the corner, I’d run in what your use to first. That being said, everyone’s feet and how they run is a little different. Listen to your body.

If I understand what you are asking correctly: the Scramblers are much more forgiving that the Mesa Trail II when it comes to hard packed, gravelly terrain - especially when your running motion is repetitive (like on a long road vs random trail surface). After awhile, you will likely encounter more fatigue in these than a heavily cushioned shoe, but you can definitely be sloppier with your foot placement and not get punished. I love running in the Scramblers even though the uppers are fraying.

I have! Here's a review after a few months of extensive use. Read the comments to see how I think it compares to the Mesa Trail... kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mMdjjKSerq-cgHU.html

I didn't even want a dog, but she's now my most consistent trail buddy and likes me more than everyone who demanded we get a dog. Ha ha.

I've never been to Italy during the summer, but have run in these shoes during Colorado summers where the temperature exceeded 90F, they breathed well. You should be fine! If you want something which offers a little more protection underfoot, consider the Scrambler Low. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/mMdjjKSerq-cgHU.html I think you'd find them to be very capable for hiking and travel. The uppers would be warmer though, and dry slower.

@@Ruinyourknees Okay, thank you! I think Mesa II should work for me then 👍

@@cephandrius3679 Enjoy the new shoes.

I'm planning to make a video comparing the two asap. The Mesa Trail II is more minimal in the upper and the sole. I definitely feel the ground more in the Mesa Trail and the legs get more worked in them. They also aren't great for snow. Scramblers are more built up. I find the uppers to be quite padded/plush and the soles are more forgiving on rocky terrain with golf ball sized rocks. In my mind, this makes the Scrambler a good candidate for longer distances and the Mesa Trail better for shorter distances. They both have a nice generalist grip with the Scrambler being extra fun with the Michelin tread. So the Scrambler is more built up and protective, the Mesa Trail is more lean and minimal. The Scrambler is a small SUV, the Mesa Trail is a race car.

"and the soles are more forgiving on rocky terrain with golf ball sized rocks." Would you still consider them minimalist shoes? Can you still feel the ground with them? I'm currently wearing the Lone Peak from Altra on trails, which I belive are way more padded than the Scarmbler, or any Xero shoe actually. For an everyday walk on the street, I use the Xero Prio, and I love the fact that thy're basically a sock with a thin sole.

@@an.20.24 "Would you still consider them minimalist shoes?" A good question. They are zero drop and feel very grounded. I consider them minimalist in their philosophy of letting foot and lower leg mechanics work in full, combined with the zero drop and firm sole. However, they are not minimalist in the sense of Five Fingers or even Mesa Trail II. I don't feel the ground as acutely as with those shoes which let the wearer notice all the small details (sand, pine needles, hard pack, mossy, etc.) - there's less picking one's way through terrain. In essence, I can be lazier in Scramblers and they take less of a toll as the miles start to add up. In my mind, these would be intriguing minimalist long distance shoes, but may leave you wanting if you want intensive shorter training sessions. The soles really are great for scrambling and managing all of those rocks which tend to sting in leaner shoes. The uppers are thicker and a bit slushy on the Scramblers. In the winter, I appreciated the extra insulation but in the summer I'd be happy with something thinner like the Mesa Trail II. Finally, the Scrambler could make a nice hiking shoe, and I imagine the high top version could be nice in places where the vegetation wants to shred ankles. Hope this is useful. They are a fun shoe, something in between full minimalist and leaner trail running shoes.

Here's a quick video comparison of the Scrambler Low and Mesa Trail 2: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/jM6GlrGgsdeXXXk.html

Ah, that's too bad! I really like the shoes and if I ever tried an ultra in a minimalist shoe, this would be it. I ran mine through a lot of rough terrain this winter, and was wondering if the issue was just with me. The upper material needs some work. This doesn't happen to the Mesa Trail II shoes. Thanks for the comment and happy trails!

Definitely. Most Lems shoes are good generalist shoes. I wear the Mesa Trail around town all the time and they've held up quite well. I view their shoes as versatile shoes more suited to town than trail, but capable on both.

@@Ruinyourknees Thanks for the reply! I have a pair on the way.

@@Pablito46 Enjoy!

Thank you for the kind words!

Ah, good to know! Best ones we found in that clump.

The Primal Pursuit is durable, but it doesn't feel locked down to the ground like a Xero Shoe does. I think you'd be a candidate for instability on hard lateral stops because they feel tall and stiff. So an ankle roll could be in the cards for certain people. I believe the Pursuit is hardy and a good general purpose shoe, but it's not a performance shoe. Personally, I've got my eye on the Scrambler Low from Xero Shoes and wonder if that might work for your purposes: xeroshoes.com/shop/shoes/scrambler-low-men/

They just work!

I'd say the toe room is comparable or maybe a bit narrower than the trailhead v2.

@@Ruinyourknees thank you!

I think it's fair to think of these as good all around training shoes which will do a respectable job at many tasks, including handling some wet terrain. I wouldn't trust my life to them on wet rocks or roots, but they have some grip and do especially well when the terrain is just a bit damp/tacky. They also shed mud pretty well since the lugs aren't too aggressive. Being flat to the ground does help. So, I'd say they are average at handling wet surfaces, not great. They're not really meant for any serious weather conditions though they did well in the lights snow and mud towards the end of the video.

Lems is definitely not minimalistic like Xero Shoes, unless you go with the Primal 2. They are durable, zero or low drop lifestyle shoes. Here's a round up on 10 of the best: 10shoe.com/list/best-lems-shoes/ I enjoy them and wear them quite a bit, but Xero is much more "barefoot" style.

No sure if you are referring to the old version or the new. I don't pay much attention to distance on shoes. The old one (green) probably has 200-300k and the new maybe had 60k-100k at the time of the video. Sorry, rough estimates!

Not really. There is a little laminate around the bottom of the foot which would keep a little water out, but the uppers are very think and breathable. Water would flood right in. However, if you live in a hot or dry climate, the shoes would dry fairly quickly after water crossings.

Interesting. Reminds me of this podcast where the Xero Shoes founder describes how hard the process of getting shoes manufactured is: xeroshoes.com/press/how-i-built-this-podcast/

Hi! I don't have the Born to Run version, but the Mesa Trail 2 definitely felt a little roomier in the toe box to me. Just a bit though... a little more play. It may have more to do with that toe guard material being different vs an actual volume change - not sure.

The Trailhead and Primal Pursuit definitely don't have the same zero-drop experience as Xero Shoes or even the Lems Primal 2. It's hard for me to gauge if there is a drop on mine, but they aren't responsive like many other barefoot shoes. I do enjoy wearing them around for "all purpose" lifestyle outings but don't think they will give the same benefits as more minimal options on the market.

@@Ruinyourknees thanks for reply. I have an email in to Lems. Let’s see how they reply. My big thing is they shouldn’t advertise them as zero drop when they def aren’t.

@@mtbin2 Please let me know what you discover! They have good customer support in my experience.

@@Ruinyourknees will do