So I assume that when a disc is in glide mode that the lift force aligns with the center of gravity. Any understanding of why air speed across the disc causes the lift position to shift?

Thank you!

Thank you!

Over all I think you’re getting it. the lift force pushes against the ground, the ground pushes back, that effect takes place 90* away and causes the tail to move down, this in effect lifts the nose of the disc and is also responsible for the disc “standing up”. Higher Spin causes the disc to resist all the forces more, it stabilizes the flight and roll. Spin doesn’t cause more lift or turn…. Once/if a disc reaches a point of equilibrium between lift and gravity, the momentum and spin will allow for a longer run out.

I hope this helps!

Hi, thanks for the question! For drone comparisons I dunno, I don’t really ever throw the drone, this is the only one we’ve got, and Asher pulled it out of the archives to test it alongside these other disc. I’ll try to do better with filming with zooming in on the flight paths.

Yes!

Sorry about that, I’ll work on balancing that better in the future. Thank you for the feedback… pun intended:)

This was the second time I’ve ever thrown a drone… it’s like once in a lifetime…kinda like in the natural world with bee hives:)

I’ve been throwing there for 8years! It’s a great spot

You mean are using tech disc?

I’ll work on that and try to do better. Thank you for the feedback

Yea, he’s fun to watch, and has regularly been going past 300’ recently, with his farthest throw over 360’.

I think this disc will shine for folks on the forehand side of things. Asher is in love with all discs right now, loves trying all of them and everything is interesting to him. It’s fun to see that kind of optimism and see how little he is biased. Love that kid!

Tried 2 hours ago to get my daugther to try a forehand, the grip were fine, she looked at me intently and then proceeded trice to load up a forehand just to somehow quicky shift the disc and her body throwing a ripping griplocked anhyzer chop 7'... 6 years so i get it *weird daddy* xD

It’s not better than a zone, the zone is pretty awesome. There does seem to be a market right now where everybody is wanting something wildly over stable. Although I am sponsored by Discraft, I try to do an honest review, tell what I think of the new Discs and what they will be useful for. Almost all the new dish have not made it into my bag, though the Athena has been a new addition, other than that it’s pretty old-school bag . It was good having my son along to get his opinion.

@@DiscgliderPete Thanks for the information I really appreciate it. Also, getting my oldest into discing has been a real pleasure as well, that's awesome you're getting yours involved. Great video as always, I'm a fan of your physics behind the disc videos as well.

I didn’t use the wasp, for the same reason I didn’t use the buzzz what were the Malta. The closest comparison would be the Buzzz OS and still the swarm is way more over stable than it.

thank you for your comment, and you do make a very good point . My thoughts on that are: Based on the severity of the angle on the nose, and how much of the air is diverted downwards compared to over the top, perhaps there is more than just the lift vector, but also the nose the disc wants to lift from the diverted air downward. Both of these forces, Whether by diverting air downwards and/or the lift force acting in front of the center of balance would see the effect take place 90° away on the right wing of the Disc. I’m pretty good at throwing the Disc, Meaning, I have pretty good command of changing my speeds and knowing exactly how fast I’m throwing, along with angle control, and knowing when I’m trying to overdrive the disc causing the issue. It’s very interesting to see this happen and that others have observed the same thing with the zone OS and this disc.

@DiscgliderPete great points! I wonder if a model... such as the Loft computer model they use to design their discs could show the reason why. Like if, as you're saying, the faster the disc is going, the less lift it's producing. Therefore, the more overstable it gets.

So as Løfts new approach disc Neon its a bit selfcorrecting for your errors both speed +/- 10 mph and angles from a anny to a bit hyzer. If you put in heavy work sloppy the result will be work well done anyway! ;D

That’s a very good question because the hornet is over stable and doesn’t travel far, however, I think it’s way more over stable than the hornet. The zone OS compared to the zone, is basically the swarm compared to the buzz zone

@@DiscgliderPete Man, thanks alot. I appreciate you responding. I might have to snag one, or two when available.

@@DiscgliderPete Agreed. I threw the Hornet and Swarm this week. The Swarm is WAY more OS for sure.

You are welcome! I hope this helps you find success. Please come back and give feedback on what you find out from your field session.

@@DiscgliderPete absolutely!

I stated that “just because a disc is rolling, doesn’t mean its flight characteristics are negated in any way”. I did a video prior to this one explaining why discs turn and fade and and the effect of those forces with under and over-stable discs. This video was basically building on what was discussed there. In this video I’m hitting the basics of how a discs lift applies forces into the ground, which accounts for some of its curious behaviors on the ground. An understable discs center of pressure/(lift) moves behind the center of balance which would lift on the tail of the disc, but because of gyroscopic precession that force would transfer 90* in the direction of rotation and we would see the left wing lift up…. With a very overstable disc the center of pressure would stay in front of the center of balance lifting more on the nose, and because of gyroscopic procession we would observe that effect on the right wing lifting towards fade…. Thus is very interesting and complex because in both cases though the lift is towards the top of the disc, the “where the center of lift” is located would seem to be at opposition with the forces imparted between the disc and the ground. So currently for simplicity sake, sharing the understanding that the lift vector is very much responsible for a roller lifting and thus applying force to the ground, causes the “standing up” while rolling at high speed. Applying what we covered in the previous video towards this video was the intention, but I now see i didn’t make that super clear and I chose to not add more of that information into this video to avoid making a 30 minute video. Thank you for your comment, it’s valuable and I’ll try to work on being more clear and become a better communicator as I learn the art of sharing ideas on this platform.

@@DiscgliderPete Wow, thanks for the comprehensive reply! I just want to make extra clear that what I wanted to communicate was curiosity, not criticism. Keep up the awesome videos!

@@isaknilsson71 of course! I love all the comments, they help me think critically about the subject matter and learn what ways I can become better at communicating ideas. Appreciate ya and thank you again for watching and reaching out. Do you have any questions or things you’d like to see on the channel?

@@DiscgliderPete Ooh... well, apart from the "should I select roller discs based on glide and/or turn/fade", there are some special shots I've been wondering about. Like, does the flare skipper (backhand) go sharply left because the hit from the ground gyro-precession-snaps the nose "up" or for some other reason? And why doesn't a disc with lots of glide (lift) go straight into the ground when thrown upside down? Do discs have lift in both directions somehow? :P

Well, let’s eliminate the bad circle and start creating positive feedback loops for our body to follow! Thanks for the comment

@@DiscgliderPete agreed! 👌❤️‍🔥

Thanks for the comment! I haven’t put much thought into that at the moment….my initial reaction would be I think It may be a similar reason to why a flat bottom boat is preferable to stand up in compared to a canoe. Then would work out the thought experiment from there. Lol Over-stable discs are often preferred for those throws also, so it’s possible that they help control the delivery and nose angle better for those throws.

@@DiscgliderPete That's an interesting thought. Yeah flat+overstable = bombs

Thank you for your comment! I’m working on that particular video in my notes and head. Proof is better than opinion, however, I’ve got years of flying Rc sailplanes, along with looking at what the free flight and hand launch geniuses have learned from wing shaping for both high and low speed flight. This has made me a little biased in understanding flight physics. But flight is flight, I love learning and it’s all super fascinating to me, so when I tackle that subject for a video I plan to share what’s valuable and factual about both opinions.

@@DiscgliderPete sounds awesome!

Yes, that is a fascinating subject we will discuss In the future.

Thank you for the kind comment. I’ll continue sharing the things I’m stoked about in this wonderful game:)

Thank you for watching! I hope it helps your game grow.

Thank you for your comment. Yea, this wasn’t intended as a “how to”, but rather a “isn’t this fascinating” video. :) If you are throwing around 400’ with a stable disc, you probably are throwing in the neighborhood of 56-60mph. Your experience is relatively normal. Flippy discs fly farther with the correct angles, but are also more unpredictable. What you may need more of is Spin. That’s what makes disc “push forward” like you stated, the other would be a good nose angle. Nose angle is easier to correct than increased spin. However, both take work to get consistent. Gannon buhr, Paul Ulibarri, and a select few others have a spin rate that pushes over 1600rpms. Gannon throws in the 70+mph range and Paul in the mid 60’s. I know guys that throw in the upper 50’s with 1400rpm range. A lot of that is in the wrist and grip, and is a hard metric to get others to increase. I don’t have a magic coaching tip to increase it other than engagement of the wrist at the hit point. That fine motor and fast twitch muscle activation takes a lot of time to get trained. Think how long it would take to become proficient in writing with your off hand. It simply takes time. All this to say, there are a lot of excellent discs out there, but not one of them throws itself. You’ve got to find a disc that works with where you are at currently. For me, I’ve been absolutely blown away by how far and how straight the Discraft Athena has been flying for me. It’s flying nearly as far as my nukes, while still remaining stable in high speed flight. So hitting 400’ with both, but controlling the landing angle better with the Athena.

No, I do not believe that would be an accurate statement. Just because air at the front of the wing of an under-stable disc diverts air upward does not mean that it pushes the nose down, because that’s not the whole story or only force acting on the disc. Air passing around the disc’s shape is a result of its velocity, Wings are fluid diverter’s. What happens at the trailing edge of a wing is what gives us the speed of a disc, in that all discs move or displace nearly the same amount of air out of their way, but it’s how much air they divert downward and “drag” along with them. Drag is what slows a disc down. If we do a little study on how to balance an airplane wing. The aircraft weight is typically balanced around 30% of the wing chord measured from the leading edge of the wing. The faster a wing flys, the farther back the center of lift moves behind the center of balance. This means the faster that an airplane flys, the more it will want to nose dive, this is counteracted by the opposition of the horizontal stabilizer/ elevator at the back of the aircraft. With Disc Golf Discs, the center of balance is the center of the disc, also the airfoil is the same in the front as it is in the back. A disc without spin will not fly because of this balance issue. It will just tumble, because there is a Dissymmetry in Lift and balance along with the angle of attack and lift pressures. Spin is what allows a distance to fly, because of gyroscopic procession, this is the magic behind the flight of a Disc. How much lift a disc generates is mostly dictated by the parting line and airspeed as discussed in the video. The lower the parting line in relation to the triangle shape of the rim, the more air will pass over the top of the disc, the more lift it will generate, the amount of lift compared to the airspeed will determine how far back the center of pressure of lift will move behind the balance point of the wing. When the center of pressure moves behind the center of balance, because of gyroscopic procession, the lift force’s effect will transfer 90* forwards in the direction of rotation. For the most part, Over-stable discs don’t allow the center of pressure to move behind the center of balance, this causes the center of pressure to remain from the center towards the front of the disc, this forces effect will transfer 90* in the direction of rotation and lift towards a discs natural fade. Discs flight is a very complex problem to work out. I’m basically discussing the simplified understanding of it. If we change the discs shape by .5-1mm its flight characteristics can change quite dramatically.

Thanks for sharing!

Thank you, I hope it helps you think of grip in a new way and gives you mor control down the fairway

Glad you like them!

🙏

I suppose a better way to say it would be: A little piper cub airplane takes less energy to get off the ground than a leer jet. The amount of lift they generate is dependent on different speeds and AOA. The less stable a disc is, the more the lift generated by that particular airfoil moves behind the center of balance at speed, this causing a disc to turn because of gyroscopic procession. Under-stable discs “turn” more. When rolling the discs flight lifts toward its top, if the center of the lift pressure moves behind the center of gravity, it causes the disc move towards turn, when in contact with the ground, the force on the ground causes the tail to drop lifting the nose.

Thanks for the visit

Thank for the visit

Glad you enjoy it!