Miquella mentions honoring a vow to Radahn. In the memory he mentions that "we" made a vow with you as in it was Miquella and someone else. I think that "we" = Miquella and Malenia. The vow itself I speculate was something along the lines that if they could defeat Radahn and Miquella can become a god that Radahn would be Miquella's consort.

what bugs me is that we still have no idea who or what impaled Marika. the spear itself appears to be destined death colored? its kindof more copper colored than any magic we know of in elden ring color theory.

What’s truly amazing about this DCL is that it wasn’t humanity that created it. Hear me out. This game in particular the 3rd generation People created in labs by Lord Rothschild, and his brother Lord Wannabe Rockefeller who was obviously from their back and forth letters the aggressive one, the one running the show, yet we also know from ancient texts like the Atrihasis and epic of Gilgamesh that the lab grown “Orphan Train Children” both sides are no longer trying to hide instead trying to steal their truth and make more Narrative, but one feature stands out as Uniquely true “Nothing New Under the Sun.” And “Those without Soul cannot Invent, create, or imagine, they can only innovate : Rich speak for steal and change to make falsity out of truth, Hollywood is so far past the point of obvious with this they are not only admitting it themselves but championing it as though it’s a virtue to be mentally useless, then comes Elden Ring not like Sekiro or Fallout which takes existing stories and “Innovates” them, but Elden Ring this is new, or is it ? I possit this game is historically accurate in more ways than can possibly be imagined Messmer for example symbolizes many things Sumarian and the Architecture of the game maps ? Wholly designed to keep people still playing games as the true Sumarian Second sun satellite they are trying to say is “Of Russian design but built by Israeli and CIA intelligence agencies (yeah bull Chitty dah) no history has almost entire continents burning by “Wild” fires just like Hawaii and what was over head that day ? The white sun, not the 1980’s -90’s and earlier yellow sun worshipped for thousands of years by Sun belt followers like the Egyptians and Sumerians. Wake up folks it’s how they are doing Global Warming.

Never played eldenring but why can't there be a good ending with Melina :(

I think the Gloam-Eyed Queen was the Empyrean queen of the Hornsent. The trailer speaks about 'a seduction and a betrayal' on Marika's part, and clearly shows her hand taking something from a corpse that looks a lot like Godskin - we know the Gloam-Eyed Queen led the Godskin cult. I think it would have looked something like this: - Marika, among the last of her shaman/Numen people, seduces the Gloam-Eyed Queen in the form of Radagon. - This coupling bears two children, Messmer and Melina. Messmer has Radagon's hair, and Melina has a funky gloam-eye, as shown in the Frenzied Flame Ending. - Marika, having made contact with the Fingers (perhaps for power to avenge her people?), receives her shadow from the Greater Will: Maliketh. - The 'betrayal' is Marika using Maliketh to kill the Gloam-Eyed Queen. The linking piece of evidence is the Godslayer's Greatsword, which we know was the Gloam-Eyed Queen's personal weapon. And it's indisputably a spiral, the sacred symbol of the Hornsent. Presumably, what Marika is seen taking from the Queen's corpse is the Rune of Death. Maybe I'm lost in the sauce, I dunno.

When Miquella says “my loyal blade” I think he is referring to Malenia, as she is the blade of Miquella, and both her and “the champion of the festival” (you) helped defeat radahn

I am back after finishing the DLC, here for my lore dump. Messmer was both the most fascinating chr in this DLC and the most fun boss encounter. I wish things could have ended up differently - I genuinely felt sadness for him once I heard his death dialogue and read the boss item descriptions after the fight. He didn't deserve the hand that was dealt to him.

If melina and messmer are siblings, maybe the reason melina rebelled was because she figured out Queen marika had trapped her brother messmer in the shadowlands?

Well thank you sir. Now I understand things better and also feel better from getting rid of that femboy psycho.

everything that could burn the tree was sealed away

It's a tiny thing in the grand scheme, and has maybe been pointed out already (I couldn't find it). But I'm 99% sure that "My loyal blade" at 1:34:02 refers to Malenia - for her part in killing Radahn - and not Leda, who was not significant in the plot to bring Radahn back (as far as I know). Since "And champion of the festival" also directly refers to the killing of Radahn, which was aided by Malenia, not Leda. Also, she told me 89 times (but who's counting) that she's the blade of Miquella. By the way, with the theme of Miquella CLEARLY manipulating people, as Fromsoft outlines more than almost anything else, via the Mohg plot, it seems obvious to me that the vow between him and Radahn was NOT mutual. As you said in your comment, there's no way that the war would be waged if Radahn was willing to go and be Miquella's consort. As you say, Radahn was loyal and honourable - he would not have his men killed in a war that served as an agreed ritual; no, he was fighting for his freedom. As a sidenote, Miquella literally being on Radahnø's back for the final phase of the fight is a clear symbol of direct control to me. It's a visual way of saying that Miquella is in control of this situation, and there are many stories in some cultures - such as the Japanese Oni - where someone is being controlled by something malevolant by ways of being "ridden" by them. The "mare" creature from "nightmare" is another example, where mares are said to give people bad dreams by being on top of them in their sleep. In short, their whole presentation clearly depicts Miquella as controlling... Radahn doesn't even say anything. I'm thinking he would bow, smile, talk... or something... if he was happy to be in that situation. It kinda gives me Gríma / King Theoden vibes from lotr, before Theoden is freed from Sauron's influence. It's ironic that Freyah still wants to help Miquella bring him back, despite that probably not being what Radahn wants, but that further plays into the theme of manipulation.

I had a thought st Trina has been separated from Miquella could that mean Radagon was in a similar position split from his other half but still connected and when he attempted to repair the elden ring he possibly used law of regression on it to regress it but it merged him and Marika back together.

I don't agree with the timeline of Mesmer's crusade being after the war with the Fire Giants. Considering how much Mesmer's power terrified Marika I would think that after seeing the power of his flames in action it would leave it's impression on her. The Fire Giants were specifically annihilated due to the danger of their power and I think that Marika would not have true concept of the Fell God's power if she herself had no frame of reference without having a lingering fear of fire in her mind. I would even go further and say that the reason her Golden Order now absorbs other cultures could be due to lingering guilt at having Mesmer unleash his flames with extreme prejudice, an act that would have her reconsider the lengths that she is willing to go.

I think I got it figured out, guys. There used to be one single tree, the one depicted in crucible imagery and in Placidusax’s boss fight arena. Upon becoming god via the mechanism of the Divine Gate, Marika had her then-youngest child, Melina, burn the Crucible Great tree, and via some other mechanism (god power lol) literally inverted the area of Shadow Realm, including the charred remains of the Crucible tree (Scadu tree looks charred). Then, by re-arranging the runes of the Elden Ring Marika created the Golden Order (of runes in the Elden Ring), which created the golden (spirit) Erdtree, having the Scadutree as its roots (i.e., charred remains of the previous great tree). I feel, somehow, the reason for the crusade wasn’t just vengeance, but rather that the endless rebirths of the Golden Order are ”paid for” by the never-ending slaughter in the Shadow Realm. Also, the Erdtree root system, which is the Scadutree, rebirths (or at least used to until the Elden Ring was shattered) things accepted by Golden Order back to the Lands Between, and the things rejected by it to the Shadow Realm, hence what we see therein. Furthermore, the great sin referenced in multiple places is likely the act of burning the former Crucible Great Tree to create the Scadutree and/or the slaughter of the inhabitants of the Shadow Realm to ’feed’ the Golden Order. The roots ’feed’ a tree, the same is occurring here.

Marikas rune of life loks like femail groin area, maybe a symbol of birth

Theory about Marika’s seduction and betrayal: 1. She seduced someone (probably Radagon) to be her lord (consort) and help her become god 2. Once she became god she betrayed her lord and killed him 3. Then she takes his lord’s power and merges it with her self (the first scene in the trailer) - when Radagon merges with her 4. She becomes the god and the lord in one body but that’s the original sin since it’s against the greater will’s rules , that’s what they mean when they say “to embrace the whole of it” (to be both lord and god) 5. That’s why every child she has with Radagon is cursed

The reason why Miquella couldn’t bewitch Radahn: 1. Secret rite scroll: A lord will usher in a god’s return 2. Miquella has to get rid of his rune to become a god 3. Once he breaks his rune the effect of bewitching would disappear and the lord might not bring the god (Miquella) back 4. That’s why the lord (Radhan) has to be fully convinced to be the consort and honour their part of the vow

Omg I was literally waiting patiently to hear of your thoughts on this. I need to make a meal and clear time to see this unwaveringly!! I desperately need to know the who, what, when and why around the cracked pot populace. The suffering witnessed alone was mind boggling.

Yes, we're going to town baby, smoughtown that is!

I think Radahn agreed to the vow, but over time up to the point of the Shattering, was pretty much not interested anymore and more interested in his men, his horse, and conquest through unending battle. The movement of the stars fortold and ushered in the coming of a new age and he likely did not desire a new age, whether it was from Miquella or from Ranni (the latter he had no idea about).

Metyr is making me think one thing: Who imprisioned Marika? If the greater will doesn't talk anymore, with the fingers, was the elden beast that punished her?

But didnt radagan had kids before meeting marika?

Melena lore video now that we know the history of the early erdtree? How does the land of shadow affect her story?

Something I noticed in one of the trailers (at 57:43 of the video) which might be relevant for the timeline: Enir-Elim already appears shrouded in shadow when Messmer conducts his purge/war. Assuming that this is the initial attack by Marika's followers, than it indicates that Marika didn't wage war to gain access to the Gate of Divinity but somehow got there by subterfuge. (But where then is all the blood covering the steps of the gate coming from. Also begs the question whether Messmer was born before or after Marika attained divinity.)

Smough's the Elden GOAT!!!!

One thing I'm really struggling to figure out is when exactly Placidusax was Elden Lord and if so, was it during the reign of the Hornsent in the land of Shadow directly before Marika ascended? He does seem to represent alot of the aspects of the crucible but there is also the presence of a great tree on the depiction of the elden ring in Farum azula.. Are the divine towers in the lands between the work of the Hornsent tower folk an offshoot or slightly different people.. Still so many questions..

In the GEQ video, you speak on how Melina was previously burned. Is there a world in which Marika uses Melina as kindling to burn down the Crucible or Primordial tree for her to become a god and plant herself and the Erdtree over its ashes how we do in the base game?

the gates of divinity kinda remind me of that DS3 painting in Friedes boss room

logged in 100 hours on this game and still going through the dlc. ive watched 100+ videos on Elden ring and never ever ever have I seen even one moment of blue skies in the game until i seen this video 😅 i hope its not edited

My brain hurts with how much it’s exploding right now

Here’s something to consider that may not have been touched upon, Bayle The dread is the only dragon with horns, and in his second phase, he sprouts wings that are very similar to the crucible knights. is Bayle one of the ancient primordial sources of life that the crucible comes from?

I’ve been waiting for more info on the Crucible Era and the Hornsent culture, I find everything about those topics fascinating! And ever since the trailer, I’ve been wanting to see more about Marika’s ascension to Godhood. I have always preferred the theory that Radagon was an individual before being absorbed into Marika to become the Immortal Rebis, and not solely a created and separate personality. To me, it’s more interesting that Radagon was a laborer descended of the Fire Giants who became a champion for the Golden Order, and that once Marika started to discover the true intent of the Order and the Greater Will then Radagon usurped her rule.

Hades is probably the least immoral of the Greek gods. After Zeus gave him an arranged marriage to his (umpteenth) daughter Persephone, he actually tried to earn back her respect from that awkward situation. Zeus doesn’t fly like that. Along with the army of children he had behind his wife Hera’s back (the goddess of MARRIAGE, btw), he also didn’t tell Persephone’s mother Demeter about the arraignment. As for how he got Hera as a wife, well, the past is a different country where “this monster assaulted me, now I must marry it to reclaim my dignity” is a thought process not seen as maladjusted. #metoo

@1:23:46 Placidusax was not Lord Consort. He was Elden Lord

I got the Noble's Slender Sword while watching/listening to this. I think this is a sign.

Why do I have the feeling all this lore has something to do with Bible history????? My goodness the parallels are so close

I think that the Land Of Shadow and the Lands between were separated after the banishment of Godfrey and Marika's marriage with Radagon. As Enia says "the Rune Of Death was the forbidden SHADOW plucked from the GOLDEN ORDER upon its creation" not upon the creation of the Erdtree, which to me indicates that during the time of Godfrey's lordship, the Rune Of Death was still part of Marika's Elden Ring, and that it was only excised after establishing the Golden Order with Radagon. This would track with Messmer being sent on his crusade after Godfrey's fall from Grace and subsequent banishment, which would then begin Marika's persecution of those aligned with the Crucible, AKA, the Hornsent, the Crucible Knights, the Omen and the Misbegotten. I'm about to get into more speculatory territory but assuming Melina is the Gloam Eyed Queen and Messmer's sister, this might have been what prompted her rebellion against Marika. The slandering, banishment and concealment of her brother and their shared aspects, those being having inherent flames capable of burning the Erdtree and Scadutree and serpentine aspects, seen clearly in Messmer and while not directly in Melina, they are present in the Godskins, servants of the Gloam Eyed Queen. Moreover, Leyndell even prior to us burning it with the help of Melina and the power of the Rune Of Death (the two things that give the Gloam Eyed Queen's blackflame its power), the city already has ash covering it's streets, pointing to the Erdtree having burned once before, as pointed out by Tarnished Archaeologist, and likely by Melina as she is burned and bodiless.

Love from a Rusty and Vaush fan!

I haven't had a chance to explore all of the dlc.. but I do find it interesting that Jarburg lines up very closely with the Jar cave in the new map when they're overlayed.

I’m not going to lie. I honestly love how these devs are getting our favorite creators to introduce us to the story and help us understand all of its motivations and idiosyncrasies that a western audience might miss. So pumped for this title.

It can't be a coincidence that the crucible, the source of life, is associated with a 'spiral' by the Hornsent. I put Spiral in quotes because most of their incantations look more like helixes to me, they do not collapse into a central point but maintain a consistent distance from the central point of the x and y axis. With a helix, my mind immediately moves to DNA, the structure of life. The crucible is essentially chaotic evolution, but perhaps the Hornsent touched upon the constant in this cause before their culture collapsed.

the 8 divine towers seal the land of shadows, it's probably located where the cloud is in the middle of the map

Wait, so if Messmer is older brother to Radahn, and Marika is his mother, wouldn't that mean he must've been born before Radagon and Marika came together to have kids? Seeing that Radahn was born before that happened, Messmer would have to be a child of Marika from Godfrey - or alternatively, a child Marika and Radagon had before Radagon married Rennala, meaning Marika was still married to Godfrey at the time.

One thing I like is that Messmer seems to be tied with all things blasphemous, especially snakes. The Blasphemous Blade is given after you beat Rykard, and the flame it uses isn't stated to be any of the main flames in the base game. (ie Giant's flame, Frenzied Flame, Blackflame, etc.) I think the DLC could've taken the opportunity to tie the two together and give the blasphemous blade some new lore. It could explain that blasphemous fire has the ability to heal the user, which would make Messmer's incantations and his weapon insanely better to use (at the expense of making his boss fight even harder lol.)

If Miquella had long planned to become a god, why did he try to grow his own Haligtree?

The erdtree is Marika re-creating her people's religion but on a world scale, powered by an Outer God, and she occupies the same position as the Grandmother both physically and spiritually. She is the center of the Erdtree and the center of worship. Also, the Grace of Gold is literally a deific inverse of her golden braid offering. Instead of offering gold to the Grandmother, she bestows Golden Grace as blessings! Also, Grandam is an archaic term for grandmother of an animal. I interpret the Empyrean Grandam as a figure who can call upon divinity (ie divine beasts) within the crucible-worshipping culture of the Hornsent.