How do they calculate the revenue v expenses per property? Is it just total expenses, size of city and the average cost per square mile ( or X area) tax revenue of that area - average expenses per area?
@Parker30710 ай бұрын
When talking about "value' it seem odd to hear talk about how the built up coast has value and the natural areas with the endangered species do not. I understand that in this context it's talking about economic/tax revenue value but we should not forget there are other types of value. Having a functioning ecosystem with biodiversity may not be taxable and therefore on the Urban3 3D charts but they are vitally important nonetheless.
@josephminicozzi383010 ай бұрын
@Parker307 We wholeheartedly agree. But the point of this presentation was to demonstrate that the Government was accepting "bad math" on the measurements that they were in control of. I think that was the most mind-blowing thing to me, is that here is a Government that adopted policies on capturing some of the impact of development, then turned around and didn't do the math on what was submitted. And it was even more flummoxing that they fought against our math as if it were fictionalized. When you have a government acting that belligerently against their own policies; getting them to see the value of the ecosystem is challenging (to say the least). Or put another way; if they had adopted an impact fee to "maintain biodiversity in the ecosystem", it is clear from this example that this government has no interest in enforcing that policy. I think that is the bigger lesson for the audience, in that we have to be mindful and double check on the math that the government is using to ensure that it meets the goals of the policy. In this case, the impact fee was supposed to ensure that the developments were "net neutral", and didn't impose on costs to citizens. We proved that that was false. The County still moved forward. If we can't get our leaders to follow policies that they create, they're certainly not going to uphold social, health, and environmental benefits. With that said, I do recommend the book "Design With Nature" by Ian McHarg. He laid out the financial argument for environmental protection brilliantly. Sadly, we forgot a lot of what he laid out. My favorite quote of his is "the man on the moon will know the value of a gallon of oxygen!" as a metaphor for the consequences for environmental degradation.
@Parker30710 ай бұрын
@@josephminicozzi3830 I get that you have to make a case to policymakers and numbers are a solid way to attempt to do that. I In my comment I was latching onto something related to a thing I have been thinking about. That is how does nature and the environment fit into urbanism. I have an interest in nature(most often birding) and I also have an interest in urbanism. Trying to fit these things together in my head is difficult. I have done some google searches - "urbanism and the environment" "urbanism and nature" but I have found nothing along the lines that I was looking for. The way it is thought of usually is that we have preserved natural areas far away and then city areas with people. But I think that people should be in touch with nature. If people are cut off from the natural world they might be less likely to care about it. When I listen to Chuck Marohn and the NJB video about Urban3 it's all about economics, creating economic value. How to urban parks fit into that? naturalist parks, not ecologically bereft ball fields. Central Park in NYC is one example where it works. There quite a few folks I follow posting amazing pictures of many types of birds in Central Park But in general I get the sense that if you want to have parks then the urbanists would say you are a NIMBY and against housing. Here in Northern Virginia I think some of the most passionate opposition to infill development is because the development is taking away a patch of forest that has been de facto green space. The historical promise of the suburbs is that you get to live in a spread out park type environment. If that is taken away for added density then more official greenspace might should be added. When I listened to Jeff Specks book he talked about how designers got together with town leaders in places to work on making more walkable places. I wondered, what would be different if there was also an ecologist in the room too. Wow that book is from 1969!
@Basta11Ай бұрын
Quantifying the value of wildlife is not easy. Value in this case comes is defined by people, the more people, the more economic activity. Densification means using the land more efficiently in the sense that it can provide more value - shelter and economic activity per land area. It is also more value relative to the costs of infrastructure and government services. Being wise about urban policy not only saves money, energy, produces more value, due to economies of scale. But it also allows us to conserve more land for that other kind of value which is natural spaces.
@truettadevil11 ай бұрын
It's easy to gentrify Black communities when Black households only have 10% of the wealth that white households have. They will never be able to compete with rents. I love the mention of The Color of Law. I feel like I can trust planning videos more when I know they have that depth of understanding.
@truettadevil11 ай бұрын
58:58 - Mehrsa Baradaran wrote an excellent book "The Color of Money: Black Banks and the Racial Wealth Gap" which is similar to The Color of Law... but the history of banking.
@jasonjack734911 ай бұрын
Is there a way to see the rest of this presentation?
@andrewmills4861 Жыл бұрын
density = affordability because its LESS desirable
@JoseppiAJ Жыл бұрын
The current market prices of denser, more walkable parts laces would say otherwise. Clearly in high demand.
@andrewmills4861 Жыл бұрын
@@JoseppiAJ Inner city areas have always been more expensive, that is nothing new. "Mixed Use" development in suburbia is utterly moronic.
@JoseppiAJ Жыл бұрын
@@andrewmills4861 What is moronic about legalizing neighborhood corner stores in single family neighborhoods?
@Descriptor413 Жыл бұрын
Density is affordable because you're able to spread the cost of infrastructure among more people. It can often also be desirable by making convenient commercial amenities more economically viable due to the immediately local populace being high enough to sustain those businesses. But that's only possible with traditional mixed use development.
@andrewmills4861 Жыл бұрын
@@JoseppiAJ No issue with that but they just can't compete against the cheaper prices supermarkets provide.
@dantecasali9821 Жыл бұрын
Is there a longer Urban3 video specific to the greenway development? Maybe with the city of Minneapolis?
@AllenGraetz Жыл бұрын
Property tax is the outcome of a political process. It's not a measurement of economic value. This meaningless twaddle results in cities overlooking some of their greatest economic assets.
@joeybream5247 Жыл бұрын
Wow! More graphs please that was fantastic
@Greyfly Жыл бұрын
do you have a color key?
@The6Foot4Asian Жыл бұрын
The moment of urban sprawl is very obvious. cool visual. thanks!
@natewillis448 Жыл бұрын
I wish we had our own "Urban3" in the Philippines
@sachamm Жыл бұрын
Who wouldn't want to join Strong Local Units of Governance, or SLUG.
@Leviajohnson Жыл бұрын
Wow. I’m on a roll with how applicable the urban 3 videos are to me. This video happens to start out with my home city, the university I went to, and it’s transit network that connects me to everywhere in the county I normally travel to. I love this!
@Leviajohnson Жыл бұрын
I feel like working at urban 3 would be a dream job to me. I nerd out on this stuff way more than I should
@lcjackson1665 Жыл бұрын
You don't account for TRAFFIC and congestion. Look at Miami Beach which is a vertical city- they are strangled with traffic: it takes an hour to go 2 miles on Collins Ave. Tax-based income is not the only thing to factor. Quality of Life. Everyone in Florida needs a car- where are they going to park? I'm a 30-year Miami resident that has seen the growth, without accounting for the traffic.
@federicofigueroa2776 Жыл бұрын
Well, the answer is quite simple: build transit infrastructure and all problems of traffic congestion will gone
@LucidFL Жыл бұрын
Traffic is coming from suburbanites forced to drive, not from urbanites. Mixed use, walkable downtowns with transportation reduce traffic by removing people from motor vehicles. Miami’s increasing congestion is a classic case of urban sprawl caused by structural forces that promote car dependency and low density. Unique to Miami is how the metro area hasn’t expanded Tri-Rail, Metrorail, Metromover, Metrobus or build light rail to account for the doubling of its 1985 population.
@Basta11Ай бұрын
Traffic and congestion primarily come from people driving private vehicles. In a dense city, the ratio of car owners to non car owners is less. Those non car owners aren't creating congestion. Even car owners living within the city use their cars much much less than people in the suburbs or rural area. That being said, the better the public transit infrastructure, the better the bike lane network, the less congestion there will be. Its called the Downs-Thompson paradox. HongKong, London, Singapore, Tokyo, NYC are incredibly dense cities where people have no issues getting around and accomplishing their daily tasks. The majority of the traffic in the city is actually from people living outside of the city driving in.
@TheNoerdy Жыл бұрын
So this entire company is designed around telling people that cities are good for the economy? Like, duh?
@LucidFL Жыл бұрын
If you know anything about American urban planning, you should know this is actually an extremely difficult thing for the country to understand…
@markd3131 Жыл бұрын
Why wouldn't they just tax per acre? It seems easier to assess and would give better results.
@johnsmiff8328 Жыл бұрын
37:07 just to have this here for when my city does the copy paste
@darkisato2 жыл бұрын
Man I'm learning alot from u guys
@pif43472 жыл бұрын
Can this model of a public Wealth Fund open up to citizens to invest and vote on projects they want to see developed? How could such investors be compensated? Could they have a type of 401k where they regularly invest matching funds from their place of employment?
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
I don't see why they couldn't be set up that way. Though, depending on securities laws, there may be a problem in how it was set up. But if it went together more like a real estate development fund, the way a developer builds investment funds for a development; I don't think it'd be a problem. But this is more a question that is in a real estate attorney's lane, than our lane of conceptualizing valuation. But this is a great question to ask, and I'll send it on so to some folks.
@mitchelldavis93722 жыл бұрын
Is the part from 16:55 to 17:30 indictive of the nation as a whole? Are Most cities about to have to fulfill massive infrastructure obligations? Are you expecting this to be the tipping point for better cities?
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
Depends on the City, but for those that really expanded in the 60's-70's, yes. But do note Edmonds' 30 years beyond the 70's. It's going to be super-painful.
@mitchelldavis93722 жыл бұрын
@@josephminicozzi3830 Thank you very interesting. Do you have any educated timeline when the Country as a whole might be forced to make some changes?
@tonysoviet36922 жыл бұрын
It depends. Muni-bonds have a lot of special status (tax free, lower interest rates...), so they can be bailed out with special federal-backed revolving credit lines. However, if the local govs are known to have poor financial practices (Louisiana), then they are more likely to go belly-up. Strong Towns could be a good resource to look this matter up.
@radhrion_11992 жыл бұрын
I've see the 3D modeling on your website, where I would be able to see the data and figures beyond the summarised model?
@BareSphereMass2 жыл бұрын
10:04 OMG look at his tabs! 🤣
@josephminicozzi3830 Жыл бұрын
And that's just one window!
@ericb.43582 жыл бұрын
Do you use any matrices like those found in Ian McHarg's "Design With Nature" book? Old book but great ideas.
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
We do a lot of that. I wrote a blog post about it back in 2010ish (I can't find that piece) but I did find this from 2015. www.urbanthree.com/blog/mchard-revisited/ Also, this is worth watching all the way through, though the first 5 minutes are awful until Mcharg shows up. kzfaq.info/get/bejne/a9Ryec5yt6m0YH0.html
@bjt20f22 жыл бұрын
I'm a second generation Floridian. The large landowners in Florida have always been screwing the taxpayers at all levels of government. The big sugar landowners dumping fertilizer and pesticide runoff into the waterways which not only impacts wildlife but drinking water. It costs money in tourism, costs money to clean up the mess. The developments being discussed are 20 miles from the beach and in the middle of nowhere. Who moves to Florida to live in the middle of nowhere? As for the politicians that approved this mess, how are their finances looking? You don't go against your voters, the rules and common sense without some personal gain. Florida is such a beautiful state but from the beginning developers have done nothing but screw things up. I moved out of state in 2017. I won't go back even to visit, I find it too depressing. I hope you win this up hill battle and maybe with Mother Nature's help you will, sea water infiltration, hurricanes, rising oceans. They can't water the golf course with salt water and hurricanes scare the folks that would be moving in. 2 weeks or more of no power, no drinkable water and unpassable roads and they are 20 miles out from the civilized areas. Good luck.
@mayfieldmanor53442 жыл бұрын
Do parks, schools, natural areas and hospitals have a value attributed to them in your model?
@MrCamilloSitte2 жыл бұрын
It depends on the models we're doing, but for a regular property tax modeling, the answer would be "no" because they are non-taxable. This isn't to say that they don't have merit or value per se, but more to show the cash flow of taxable properties.
@mayfieldmanor53442 жыл бұрын
How do the municipal cost of on-street parking and municipal parking garages in downtowns fit into your cost analysis?
@MrCamilloSitte2 жыл бұрын
That's not a simple thing to answer, as it depends on the city and if they charge for parking.
@teddybruscie2 жыл бұрын
From what I've researched, parking is generally a tax drain. It's just a plot of land saved for cars and even if it's paid parking it doesn't make up for the cost of it's existence. If you have low density population, road side parking is ok because there's not enough people/ traffic to cause any congestion. As the population grows, road side parking becomes irrelevant. It can only park so many cars. That's where transit comes in.
@operavin6 ай бұрын
I’ve always wondered why parking is free at night and on weekends in downtown areas where these are the most popular times.
@cupojoll2 жыл бұрын
@NotJustBikes brought me here. Great work you're doing
@MrCamilloSitte2 жыл бұрын
Kindly thanks Joe!
@gorkyd79122 жыл бұрын
Great video. Totally agree that high density housing gets unfairly prohibited and targeted for higher taxes and fees, and then all the businesses that bring growth to the area have to leave because they can't afford to pay their workers enough to buy one of the massive 4-br "legal" houses in the area that was built 80 years ago when the dollar was worth something. But, I suspect taxes per acre is not actually that informative of a way to look at cost/value for the purposes of a city government. The city doesn't pay costs on a per-acre basis, it's usually closer to a per-person basis, so unless there is a pressing shortage of acreage preventing needed job growth or something... If you pack thousands of people into an acre and they all pay higher taxes through their rent to the 100% taxed commercial real-estate investor that may look amazing on a per-acre basis but the city's costs providing services for all those people will by much higher because they will need more traffic lanes, smarter traffic controls, more parking, bigger and costlier schools, etc. So density increases total revenue but not always "profit margin" so to speak. The real driver of profit margin for a city is successful businesses with lots of well-paid employees.
@MrCamilloSitte2 жыл бұрын
Hello Gorky. Joe here. If you go to about minute 1:02:00, you'll see a straight assessment of the inequity of impact fees in how they're practiced in Palm Beach County. Basically, the money is generated in areas that already have infrastructure and it is exported out to the burbs to pay for infrastructure that they can't afford in the first place. Also, if you continue from there, you'll see a straight comparison of 88 houses in South Bend done as a straight analysis (not a per acre) and it shows how low density costs more. This isn't about "packing people in" as both examples are single family housing. With regard to "profit", I would never argue that governments should profit from anything. The same way I wouldn't argue that an orphanage should make a profit. But I think you and I would agree that the orphanage shouldn't lose money on every transaction and bleed out financially. Well, the same is true for cities. Our whole thesis is that citizens should "see the money" in a geospatial model so we can see what is happening with those transactions.
@justin___2 жыл бұрын
@Urban3 Rather than bringing the people to the jobs, what are your thoughts on bringing the jobs to the suburbs? Is that feasible? That can mean less density (which is what some people want), but also less VMT.
@tg-sj2nu2 жыл бұрын
mixed-use is kind of this i think? but i dont think its possible everywhere, particularly in already existing buildings and sections of infrastructure
@dlln.13532 жыл бұрын
Not saying it's not possible, but you would definitely incur a lot of pushback from NIMBYs, and ultimately people would in the suburbs would still be located far away from where the majority of services are located.
@jasonjack734911 ай бұрын
Cities generally pay higher salaries and have services for businesses. It is easier to provide those services to a company when it is near other companies with similar needs which lowers costs which increases funds available for salaries. They are willing to pay higher salaries because there is a concentration of jobs that compete for workers which is attractive to workers. Cities have infrastructure to support shipping goods to other population centers, as well as shipping people for business trips as well as many more customers. Suburban mixed use is good, but those businesses will have less demand in the suburbs because of the lower density. Transit oriented development can help to have workers commute downtown for work, but still get food in their dense housing.
@Multihuntr02 жыл бұрын
Damn, this is good stuff. I didn't really know about the financials of local governments before, and I'm glad to have seen this. I'm glad that there's good data analysis of these things being done. Although, I'm surprised this kind of analysis is so new. I would have expected this to be well and truly sorted out like 100 years ago. I guess it's difficult to collate this information without computers, but still. This seems like critical information about the workings of a government that is kind of hidden away and rarely looked at by the community.
@KhangTran-sl3yb2 жыл бұрын
Would you please do analysis of Houston, TX, please? I would love to see the result of your analysis there. Thank you.
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
We'd love to, but they haven't hired us yet. However, we are doing work in Dickenson, TX, which is close.
@swifton2 жыл бұрын
I don't understand the "cases per density" metric. What does it mean in practical terms?
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
That's a pretty wide question, so let me take a crack. Practically speaking, its less people per infrastructure, so it makes cities cheaper to manage.
@swifton2 жыл бұрын
@@josephminicozzi3830 Here is my understanding of the covid situation. We want to understand whether population density correlates with covid cases (per 1000). We plot all cities we have on a graph, with x axis being population density and y axis being covid cases per 1000. Then we run a linear regression, and if the slope is positive, then denser cities are worse for covid. If the slope is big, then they are much worse. It would make sense to divide one by another (covid per 1000 by density) to tell whether New York is above some barrier. If it is, then it's a bad city. But it's not the same as covid cases per density -- it's covid cases per 1000 per density.
@billsmith51092 жыл бұрын
TIF?
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
Sorry for the jargon. TIF = Tax Increment Financing. There are multiple ways to use it, one is to cap taxes in a district, and leverage future tax gains to finance projects today. So a builder could build those 18 houses, but you preserve the properties at current tax value for 15 or 20 years, and the builder or home-owner realizes a considerable tax benefit over that term, as the land will be taxed as if it were a vacant lot. There are lots of tools available, and this is one of them.
@billsmith51092 жыл бұрын
@@josephminicozzi3830 So the current council gets to be Santa Claus, and leave future financial difficulties to future elected officials. Got it.
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
@@billsmith5109 Well, no. TIF was just one option. If you have constructive solutions, please share.
@sperizer2 жыл бұрын
Fascinating work.
@justin___2 жыл бұрын
@Urban3 - This video is messed up from 5:18 on. I don't know if you have a hard copy of this, but it may be worth taking down rather than having a half-baked video.
@sankimalu2 жыл бұрын
It feels like I just struck gold on KZfaq! Fantastic content!
@SquaresToOvals2 жыл бұрын
Excellent presentation! I hope for everyone's sake that these kinds of efforts gain more traction.
@yay-cat2 жыл бұрын
Probably a silly question but what does VPA stand for? like is it virtual population analysis that wikipedia says is good for figuring out how many fish there used to be, or does it maybe have something to do with the “victorian planning authority”, or something else?
@peterslegers61212 жыл бұрын
Virtual Presentation Assistant.
@peterslegers61212 жыл бұрын
or Artist
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
Sorry about the lingo. "Value Per Acre" is VPA.
@rishi-m2 жыл бұрын
Seriously? First comment here? Nobody reads NJB descriptions or what, that vid has like 90k views already!
@kaspergruszczynski99192 жыл бұрын
He linked this one in a comment, guess the video name seemed a bit dry. 😅
@EricLeafericson2 жыл бұрын
I found this channel from Not Just Bikes. Subscribed! I'm working towards my Power PE stamp and am deeply interested in making sure the electrical designs I work on don't "accidentally" ruin a neighborhood. What kind of charity work can I look into to start using my engineering skills and government credentials? My county hires electricians and other trades, are they worth talking to?
@music4thedeaf2 жыл бұрын
Thats admirable
@andrewtran9492 жыл бұрын
nice, more power to you. Hope you find what you're looking for
@ardenthebibliophile2 жыл бұрын
Do you happen to have your models/code on GitHub? Would be fun to play with this stuff
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
The models are done in Esri software and are built within that software. The images are from the "value/acre" layer. That code is inside the Esri software, but it's basically taking the parcel area and dividing the value into it. The harder aspect is that any county data will have a bunch of weirdness going on. And there's not code to solve that. So there's no real way to automate the models due to standards of assessor practice. We'd like to change some of that, but that's a big battle. But if you know what models you want to look at, we may be able to export them.
@blakksheep7362 жыл бұрын
I'm first here from NJB. Let's see who else turns up. :^)
@markd3131 Жыл бұрын
Me too!
@TereniaDelamay2 жыл бұрын
Great presentation. This will be a fascinating train to watch crash, and yet so easily avoidable.
@josephminicozzi38302 жыл бұрын
Indeed! It's sad to see happen, especially considering what happened to the rest of the state of FL.
@ShoelessMeg2 жыл бұрын
Congratulations! Thanks for all the beautiful models and graphs and thought provoking that you do.
@KayJohn392 жыл бұрын
Wonderful work toward community and justice in our towns. Bravo and congrats on your milestone!!
@matthewtaylor25822 жыл бұрын
Keep up the good work!
@7054irvin2 жыл бұрын
Great presentation, more cities across the US need to be mapped out like this to spread awareness.