What about the same test with time to target? I think the difference would be small there as well too, but would make for a interesting discussion.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer13 сағат бұрын
@@ArchersAnonymous-nb4ym I have a video idea with this exact comparison coming up! Thank you for the suggestion!!
@ArchersAnonymous-nb4ym13 сағат бұрын
Have you seen any of the testing Bill from Iron Will published recently? If not, its under the Explore tab on his website, interesting stuff.
@danvanhoose6783Күн бұрын
Bout fell asleep.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer17 сағат бұрын
Me too there is a whole section that was supposed to be sped up not sure what happened there but. I will try to condense and make it less boring in the future. Thanks for the feedback…. Unless you have insomnia in which case you’re welcome glad I could help! 🤣
@baseballslamer242 күн бұрын
Can you do severe 3 fletch helical vs 4 fletch with offset
@NightSightTape3 күн бұрын
Hey Lucas! Would love to talk to you about a potential partnership idea. If you are interested, I sent you an email! Thanks!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer2 күн бұрын
Followed up with your email. Thanks for reaching out.
@WessMaynard3513 күн бұрын
Are heavier arrows quieter? Heavier arrows seem to reduce bow noise
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer3 күн бұрын
@@WessMaynard351 from my experience I would say yes especially with fixed broadheads it becomes more noticeable. I have some testing planned on this coming up.
@FredFung5 күн бұрын
Your app looks great. Would love to discuss an idea with.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer3 күн бұрын
Send me an email at [email protected] or reach out on instagram we can chat.
@geoffader5 күн бұрын
Can you use the harness from the Alaska Guide Creations with the Muley Freak chest pack?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer5 күн бұрын
@@geoffader no unfortunately different buckles and I would have to cut the muley freak buckles out or break them to change them they are sewn in.
@cragar17 күн бұрын
Love the video. As a Mechanical engineer & avid archer - this is great stuff!!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer17 күн бұрын
Glad you enjoyed it! Let me know if there’s any particular topics you’re interested in that I haven’t discussed. Thanks for the support, Lucas
@greekmaster100118 күн бұрын
I own every vane you tested and in real life the DCA vanes stabilize arrows faster than any other vane. Sorry but this test proves nothing
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer17 күн бұрын
Absolutely, in fact I said in the video, that the test proves and shows nothing. 👍 thanks for watching.
@danielhoerig264921 күн бұрын
Tried printing sight tape. Printed to the size of the entire page. Not sure what I’m doing wrong. Not to scale at all
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@danielhoerig2649 check your print setting make sure it says print to actual size or scale at 100% because it’s small printing software likes to scale the image.
@danielhoerig264921 күн бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer my printer app on my phone wouldn’t let me change it. Saved the file and emailed to myself. Printed from the laptop and all is good. Thank you!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@danielhoerig2649 thanks for the update I’ll have to work on suggested apps for printing. my goal is to provide everyone the ability to print tapes. For some that might be library or Office Depot but still an option. Let me know if you have any other issues.
@joshuaeck271221 күн бұрын
I can't find the app on my android phone
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@joshuaeck2712 I am working on android version should be out in a couple months. 🤞
@joshuaeck271221 күн бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer oh OK
@rrvil21 күн бұрын
Appreciate the walkthrough. l'll be signing up!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
Appreciate your support.
@rrvil18 күн бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer just printed out some sight tapes to verify what I had selected. This really helped me fine tune my metal sight tape. One suggestion. Give the option for tick marks every 5 yards as every yard is a little crowded. Also love that I can get the tape set up at my elevation and print another for the elevation I’ll be at in September!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer18 күн бұрын
@@rrvil awesome glad it was helpful! Thanks for the suggestion I’ll add it to the list.
@nightvarmint21 күн бұрын
Android app please
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@nightvarmint it’s coming I promise.
@benjamins779921 күн бұрын
This looks really cool. I just signed up, but I shoot an HHA. Looking forward to being able to generate sight tapes when it’s available!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@benjamins7799 which HHA do you shoot?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
If you can take a couple measurements for me I can add it to the app. I need the diameter of the dial which the sight tape is attached to. The second measurement is the how far 1 pin travels per a full rotation of the sight tape dial.
@benjamins779921 күн бұрын
Awesome, I’ll get that information for you when I get a chance.
@benjamins779921 күн бұрын
I have an HHA optimizer tetra the diameter of the sight tape wheel is 1.677, but it has a couple of tapes on it which are .0035 thick so it could be as low as 1.663. I can’t get it to do a full rotation but did half and the math comes out to 2.365 of pin movement for 1 full rotation. I also have an HHA optimizer lite ultra. The wheel diameter is 1.892 with 1 tape on it so it could be as low as 1.885. 1 full rotation maths out to 1.554 of pin movement.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@benjamins7799 Thank you very much I added the features to the app, based on your measurements. Updates usually take a day or so to get approved, so you should be able to update tomorrow to version 2.8, which has these sight tapes. Let me know if they appear to matching up or not, hoping to get my hands on more sights soon to add as many as I can. Thanks again Side note if anyone has a sight they would like supported please provide the measurements and I will happy add them!
@Jsfea0121 күн бұрын
Cool video - thank you. Any value in the spin rate speed vs time to stabilize or is it all about surface area?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@Jsfea01 spin rate does helps to balance out imbalance in the arrow system. Imbalance created by shaft flex, weight imbalance, geometry imbalance, shaft straightness, insert straightness etc. so ideally we want a rapid spin up. However, I have not gotten to the point of determining how much spin is necessary hopefully I can create some guidelines to follow for that. Surface area and where the surface area is relative to the shaft is the most important factor. Thanks for the question.
@SWMissouriOutdoors21 күн бұрын
More great content. I'll be checking out the new app.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
Thanks for the support, any comments, questions, or suggestions please let me know. 2 months free should still be active until August.
@SWMissouriOutdoors21 күн бұрын
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer I checked for it, unfortunately I don't have IPhone, is it, or will it available for Android?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer21 күн бұрын
@@SWMissouriOutdoors I am working on the android version. Keeping the cost low by doing it myself makes it take longer. I am hoping a couple months to have it finished.
@ripfletching21 күн бұрын
Great job
@Texaslivinoutdoors21 күн бұрын
This pretty much confirms a lot of what we already knew. I’m really interested to see surface area vs surface area, like a long low profile vs a short high profile with similar surface areas. Keep up the good work! I might build one of these wind tunnel for my own arrow builds.
@timbow5021 күн бұрын
👍👍
@royleerobinson523 күн бұрын
So for the scale bar on the site tape. You need to measure the scale on the screen till it measures out to 1” correct?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer23 күн бұрын
@@royleerobinson5 correct and change the value listed as “scale adjustment” listed on screen it will be a whole number. I also recently was made aware of a bug when switching between sights specifically from sport high to black gold/linear it does not like to update. However if you click on HHA or one of the other options then back to black gold it will update correctly. Working on a fix right now for that.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer22 күн бұрын
@@royleerobinson5 update is now live to fix that issue. Make sure to keep the app updated I add features often any problems please let me know. Take care, Lucas
@royleerobinson522 күн бұрын
Awesome! So i live in wyoming and setting up a tape out here is a nightmare witht the wind. Like 5 months ago we were trying to use a rifle ballistic app to do what you did in the video using ballistics indoors to get marks. Have you done more of that and what was your experience?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer22 күн бұрын
@@royleerobinson5 I have had a couple individuals try it with good results. However it is very sensitive and easy to be off it is more of a “bore sighting” get you on paper requiring fine tuning. However with the app it becomes unnecessary. You can use the onscreen or printed tape to set pin gaps. A buddy of mine just got a new bow we set it up in about an hr and we’re shooting 90yards without issue. We set the pin gaps to the linear tape option and matched a tape that came with his sight. For curved sight tapes like spot hog you would select a linear tape option to set pins and then Print the tape for the actual sight you are using fast Eddie black gold or whatever. He was hitting a little low at 20 made a slight adjustment and he was dialed from 20-90 with the tape and pins he runs a 5 pin slider. Does that process make sense? I have a bunch of videos I am in the process of making detailing how everyone can do this.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer22 күн бұрын
Also you can still do the ballistics method with the free or paid version of this app. You would select the pin you are trying to sight in for example 60yards as the zero, change one of the columns to drop and then shoot at one of the distances 5,10,15, 20 yards and hit the amount high listed on the drop column. However, it's much more accurate to use the sight tape section to set up your sight.
@SteveScheurerII26 күн бұрын
Humidity
@bowhunter792226 күн бұрын
as an engineer, traditional archer and bowyer I find your videos excellent. it looked like some of your equations and conclusions were based on the assumption that arrow velocity is constant from 0 yds to 60 yds. not so - velocity and momentum erode downrange, with lighter arrows eroding faster than heavy arrows, hence momentum and penetration of heavy arrows win every time! see ranch fairy series.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer26 күн бұрын
@@bowhunter7922 hey great question no I definitely did not assume constant velocity, I actually built a ballistics calculator based on a study of arrow drag from the Japanese institute of technology which found drag coefficients of an arrow. Fom that I determined the drag per interval from launch to x yardage to determine what would be the downrange velocity. However, some discussion in the video is discussing the two most common arguments of today. Which are energy based penetration estimate vs a momentum based estimate. Neither are accurate which ED Ashby confirmed in his testing as well. I then used the poncelet model of penetration specifically a solution for a non deforming elongated rod to estimate penetration which followed much more closely with EDs results and others. Thanks for your question and support, take care.
@larrytellman3490Ай бұрын
Fascinating. Love you're work.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
Thank you very much!
@globularvower3300Ай бұрын
Great test. Are you going to do a same one with spin wings or similar?
@RichardCummings-k4qАй бұрын
Tacs have a stable quiet platform and instant recovery.
@renewyers4699Ай бұрын
Hi Trevor's just want to share a thought with you about a stable air flow and how u can achieve that,I saw this done on a tube video,they got a lot of plastic drinking straws together and placed them in front of there fans,when the air was pushed through them with the fan then the flow was stabilised hope this may give u something to try.also it's cheep to do if it works for u.cheers Rene from Aus
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
Thanks for the tip! I appreciate the support take care, Lucas
@davidvedder2145Ай бұрын
I don't know if you have a way of measuring, but it would be interesting to see the drag force applied. Especially when you get to testing different offsets, the related force during stabilization and after stabilization would be really cool to see!
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@davidvedder2145 I’m working on a way to measure this. We will see if it works
@C.FowlerАй бұрын
Very interesting…Is there a part 2?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@C.Fowler the FOC video comes after this one. FOC Flight, Penetration and Buckling? Archery Eduction Video 4 all about FOC kzfaq.info/get/bejne/q7GanZWo1t7Tf4k.html
@loganchapman105Ай бұрын
I absolutely love this video and info. But my only critique is, please speed up the video when looking at the longer timers
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@loganchapman105 thank you will do! I realized too late after I posted that I never did that. It’s kinda like watching paint dry isn’t it. 🤣. Take care, Luc
@thewhiskybowmanАй бұрын
Can I just ask, is your wind tunnel blowing air from the top or bottom? I can't tell from the video. The way the vanes are designed the wind should be blowing in from the top to play to their strengths, but I don't know if that's what's happening or not. Interesting video anyway.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@thewhiskybowman the wind is blowing from top to bottom, many people had the same question so thank you for asking. More videos to come thanks for the support. Take care, Lucas
@thewhiskybowmanАй бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer Thanks for the reply, I did have a look at the questions before posting and hadn't noticed that it had already been asked. Unfortunately I don't think youtube always shows us (the viewers) all the comments, which must be frustrating for content providers having to answer the same things over and over.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@thewhiskybowman Its all good! I don't mind the comments with questions, it helps me to know what I need to explain more next time. I made that comment such that you didn't feel bad for asking since many people thought the same thing. It's a good question to answer multiple times makes the answer easier to find. You are absolutely correct KZfaq does not show all or even in order the comments. Sometimes I miss comments as well and I am supposed to get a notification for each one! Anyway take care and thanks for you support! Luc
@gowithabowАй бұрын
Exceptional video, thank you for taking the time to do this.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@gowithabow your welcome stay tuned lots more to discuss!
@natephillips1597Ай бұрын
Be cool to see 3 vs 4 fletch as well
@davidvedder2145Ай бұрын
Agree!
@user-gd2ym3fo9vАй бұрын
You ever try light weight spin wing 4 in vanes in your tests.? Tom Lund
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
Not yet.
@stick__shooterАй бұрын
Nice test. It would be interesting to see how a 4 fletch compares to the 3 fletch in stabilization. I don't know if you would be able to test this, but stabilizing with a fixed blade broadhead would be very good data for hunters.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
I’m trying to figure out a way to incorporate this as well. Thanks for the suggestion.
@brianhorton1721Ай бұрын
These are bolts for a crossbow not a standard bow, so it wasn't be accurate study for a arrow for a Bow
@Mr.bowbenderАй бұрын
This is awesome. My only concern is that the airflow is going in the wrong direction across the arrow and vanes.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@Mr.bowbender I have a short video addressing this question. The fan is pulling air across the vanes so airflow is from top to bottom same direction as an arrow actually experiences. Thanks for the question you and many others have had the same take care, Luc
@Mr.bowbenderАй бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer ok that makes more sense. Keep up the good work. Can't wait to see more tests.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@Mr.bowbender thanks for the support. I’ll keep them coming a little at a time!
@MossyOakFreakАй бұрын
You should try this test with Zinger Fletchings and see how they compare to vanes.
@paulvega9893Ай бұрын
You son are definitely a force to our knowledge.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
Thank you! Take care, Luc
@paulvega9893Ай бұрын
This video is remarkable value to our archery community.
@toyosecretАй бұрын
Quality content
@shanerRCАй бұрын
Awesome stuff! I guess the short arrows make the arm roughly same as in an actual arrow, but does the fact that the test arrows are rotating radialy about the point and not about the C of G or C of L, whichever it is, have any effect?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
Yes absolutely rotation about the tip is different than how a true arrow behaves. Essentially this would be an arrow with 100%foc. However to compare fletchings it’s a fair comparison. I’m working on how to support the shaft from the cg while still allowing it to spin.
@jeffspencer7489Ай бұрын
Wind direction coming from behind the arrow or is the fan pulling air?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
Pulling air.
@tmalonsoАй бұрын
I wonder if suction from behind the arrow would be better than a blower from the front? Just thinking about the fan itself creating imperfect turbulence in the tunnel but suction from behind the arrow might create a more uniform airflow across the vanes?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
You are correct this is exactly the setup I have as well the fan is pulling/sucking air across the arrow.
@tmalonsoАй бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer oh nice! Did you chamfer and de-burr the intake tube’s mouth? Probably would make for very minor discrepancies either way but just throwing ideas out mostly haha
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
@@tmalonso I did not I’ll give that a try I am also making a large intake cone as well. The flow has very minor turbulence.
@tmalonsoАй бұрын
@@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineer best of luck with it, great experiment, excited to see more!
@kokomo6754Ай бұрын
When we can expect android version?
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
I’m working on it but probably a couple months learning kotlin and jetpack compose now. I hope sooner but just depends how long it takes for me to learn.
@jefferygambrill7332Ай бұрын
Great work Lucas. Have you considered a terminal velocity wind tunnel blowing from underneath. You would need to be able to vary the tunnel airflow velocity. Should give an estimate of vane drag.
@Lucas_Palmer_bownerd_engineerАй бұрын
I’ll look into that thank you for the suggestion.
@dbuhler171Ай бұрын
Can you please do a test of the Blazers fletched at the same 2.5 degree offset as the others?
@douglasely7416Ай бұрын
Oh boy I want see this video great idea
@wrnr2cbАй бұрын
Would love to see some of the more unique and quick fletch options like FOB, zinger and easy vanes(Australian based company, I think NAP also has something out they call easy vane). Also interested in which vanes are less effected by crosswinds.