With a bit of practice it is possible to get the strings to 0.1 Cents accuracy, especially when you use the gray freeze indicator of the pro version. But for a home tuning you're good with 0.3 Cents.

The inharmonicity only slightly changes with pitch/string tension. So it does not matter if a string is flat or sharp. If an instrument is strongly out of tune, like more than 20 cents, it is preferable to tune the piano twice and to re-measure the inharmonicity after the first tuning pass. But doing two passes for a pitch-raise is standard practice anyway as the soundboard and plate deform during the first pass. If the strings in a unison of a single note are more than slightly out of tune with each other, you should use a mute and let only a single string sound for the inharmonicity measurement.

@@pianoscope6345 I get all this, but I think I was not clear enough in my question. When recording all the keys one by one, you get a profile of all of them, but if the piano is out of tune, who do you measure / calculate inharmonicity from this data in the software ??

To be able to produce a tuning, pianoscope needs to calculate a target pitch for every note which results in the so-called tuning curve. The goal is to minimise the beating that is produced when playing intervals, by coinciding partials in the notes of that interval. This is an optimisation problem. To solve it, the app needs to know the spacings between the partials in every note. These spacings are different for every note and every instrument and are described by the so-called inharmonicity. But these spacings stay constant if you raise or lower the pitch during tuning (if you don't overdo it). So to solve the tuning curve, the app needs to pre-measure the inharmonicity of all notes. For this to work, it does not matter if the measured string is in or out of tune with other strings. The inharmonicity of a string is like a human fingerprint.

This is the common notation for the so-called coincident partials in octave intervals: If you play two notes simultaneously on a piano in an octave interval, the tenth partial of the lower note coincides with the fifth partial of the upper note, this is abbreviated with 10:5. These coincident partials produce beats. The tones of a piano are inharmonic, which means that the frequencies of the partials of a note are not equally spaced. Therefore, if you reduce the beating in one interval (for example 10:5) you increase the beating in another interval (for example 2:1). So the problem of tuning a piano is to find a tuning curve which reduces the beating in the most relevant tuning intervals.

@@pianoscope6345 much clearer. Should one focus more on the smaller ones like 2:1 which are probably louder, than the highest ones on the list ?

Hi Benjamin, I am glad you like pianoscope. When you have the Standard version, you can always upgrade to Pro by just paying the price difference.

You don't have to measure the inharmonicity of all notes. You can get along with sampling only one or two per octave, the choice is up to you. Measuring all takes only about two minutes and gives you the benefit that the calculated tuning curve will account for all scaling issues. The time you spend on measuring will be saved several times over during the tuning because you will have to make fewer manual adjustments.

Thank you for the feedback. It is good to know that pianoscope is helping you in your work.

Thanks, I am glad you like the app. The concert pitch calculated by the optimization function is optimal in the sense that it is the one for which you need to make the fewest changes to the string tensions, so that it requires the least amount of work from the tuner. This approach is also known as "floating the pitch". Naturally it only makes sense with instruments that are not too flat. If an instrument is very flat you should use the pitch raise function.

Thank your for your interest in pianoscope. These are the main differences that come to my mind: - You can measure the inharmonicity of the full instruments in just about 2 minutes, much faster than in PianoMeter. - The automatic note detection in pianscope is rock solid, fast and reliable. In practice you don't need to touch your device at all during tuning. PianoMeter is often making octave errors in the note detection. This can lead the tuner to the wrong tuning offset and if undetected result in a broken tuning. - When working for hours, I would always prefer pianoscope's calm pitch indicator over PianoMeter's nervous multi-partial strobes. - You can use pianoscope's partial view for training aural tuning and for voicing. - pianoscope uses regular document files and so it is very easy for mere mortals to sync tuning files using DropBox, iCloud Drive, Box.com or any cloud service you like. - pianoscope's user interface design is uncluttered, easy to learn, very discoverable and scales well between devices of any size. - Since version 2.5 of pianoscope there are even more unique features like freeze tuning for further speeding up tuning work, aurally guided headless tuning using headphones, beat location and simulation etc.

Thank you for your comment. I am not aware of anything that pianoscope may have copied directly from TuneLab. Just off the top of my head, here are some areas in which it shines when compared: - You can measure the inharmonicity of the full instruments in about 2 minutes. In TuneLab it would take far longer so for practical purposes you only sample a handful of notes. Especially in the bass, the IH scaling of many pianos is unpredictable so only sampling a few notes will miss all special features of an instrument and lead to inferior tuning curves. Additionally, TuneLab's IH interpolation approach for unsampled notes does not make much sense. - The tuning curve calculation is far superior to TuneLab. You don't have to experiment with different tuning intervals for differently sized instruments. You only choose a style like "Twelfths Pure" and pianoscope will automatically find the optimal curve for your instrument leading to better sounding tunings. - You can use pianoscope's inharmonicty view to analyze the scaling of an instrument and to identify problems. - The automatic note detection in pianscope is rock solid, fast and reliable. In practice you don't need to touch your device at all during tuning. TuneLab on the other hand is often making octave errors in the note detection. This can lead the tuner to the wrong tuning offset and if undetected result in a broken tuning. - When working for hours, I would always prefer pianoscope's calm pitch indicator over TuneLab's unsteady spectrum display. - You can use pianoscope's partial view for training aural tuning and for voicing. - pianoscope uses regular document files and so it is very easy for mere mortals to sync tuning files using DropBox, iCloud Drive, Box.com or any cloud service you like. - pianoscope's user interface design is uncluttered, easy to learn, very discoverable and scales well between devices of any size. - The upcoming version 2.5 of pianoscope even comes with many unique features like freeze tuning for further speeding up tuning work, aurally guided headless tuning using headphones, beat location and simulation etc. Check it out, if you want to learn about innovative tuning features: forum.pianoscope.app/d/54-beta-test-of-pianoscope-v25/

I can help you out here: Wound strings are the thick bass strings that consist of a thin center wire which is wound by a copper or brass wire. The plate is the cast iron frame which holds the stings, and the struts are the ribs that span the plate which give it more rigidity.

pianoscope requires iOS 15 or later. You can try to get it to run on a jailbroken device, but we don't officially support such a configuration. The oldest devices still officially running iOS 15 are the iPhone 6s, the iPhone SE 1st gen and the iPad mini 4th gen from 2015 or the iPad Air 2nd gen from 2014.

@@pianoscope6345 Thank you for the prompt response. And another question. When setting the tone, should the scale indicator be taken at the moment of hitting the string or a little later after the sound is stabilized?

@@mobile_83 The traditional approach is to tune in the steady state of a string. We are currently investigating whether focusing on the early tone phase brings any quality advantage besides the obvious time saving. We may offer a custom feature for this in a future update.

@@pianoscope6345 Dear Mark, let me make a clarification. If the task is to adjust the piano tuning (not to raise the tonality), first, we conduct a test of inharmonicity. Is this test performed on an unconfigured instrument? We get a picture of the "ugliness" of the current setting. And after that, we configure the entire tool, according to the recommendations of the program. As a result, if after setting up we repeat the inharmonicity test, then it should be close to the reference schedule? Just how does the data of the ugliness (inharmonicity) of the starting non-tuned tool help in the calculations of the program, or what is it needed for?

@@mobile_83 I don't think I understand your question. Probably this is a translation issue from Russian. Can you pose your question in Russian?

Yes, pianoscope has over 70 built-in non equal temperaments, and in the pro version you can even create your own. www.pianoscope.app/manual/en/pianoscope.html#_temperament

Why not?

Tuning is always between 440 and 442 Hz

I tuned a piano to 440 Hz once in the summer, and in 6 months, due to the humidity changes, it jumped to 445 Hz.

Hello sir, Did you tune the first notes only with one mute? Which means you tune two strings at the same time? Thank you

I believe that's the point

It's a stretched "equal temperament" to ensure the harmonics are matching as much as possible for the particular piano.

I am not a piano technician, so I cannot help you directly. But you could ask the pros in the piano world forum under forum.pianoworld.com.

What was it damaged by? Is it an upright or a grand piano? I think it may be quite old, and your financially viable options may be limited....

@@DavidBoycePiano It's an upright piano damaged by water.

@@violetmanas5606 Your regular tuner/technician will be able to advise you.

Hello Anders, thank you for your interest in pianoscope! Compared to PianoMeter, pianoscope is faster and more reliable in measuring the inharmonicity of the full scale. Its user interface is highly configurable and makes better use of the available screen real estate, especially on small devices. It offers an overall calmer experience as it does not burden you with four simultaneous strobes during tuning. Instead, it uses a sophisticated algorithm to combine up to ten partials into a single indicator or strobe. pianoscope is far more reliable in automatic key detection. The resulting tunings are considered by many to be best of class. pianoscope pro is not only available as a one-time purchase or a yearly subscription but also as monthly subscription. I hope this helps. If you want to discuss pianoscope related issues, you can also check out the forum at forum.pianoscope.app

@pianoscope Thanks for the prompt response. Will head over to the forum later. What is it in the inharmonicity calculations that makes it more reliable?

@@aostensv When you repeat the IH measurements in PianoMeter you will find that you will often get varying results with the same string. I can only make an educated guess why this is the case in PianoMeter. My guess is that it does not perform any proper attack detection and therefore uses varying phases along a notes sounding duration to gather IH data. If you do a tuning curve calculation on this basis, you might get a sub-optimal result.

@pianoscope OK, thanks. Will try and do a side by side to see. I have a Shure Motiv MV88 mic for the iPad. Will it make a difference vs. the built-in mic, or is it negligeable?

@@aostensv You can use an external microphone, but you don't need one to get great tunings with pianoscope.

Thank you for your interest in pianoscope. What especially do you experience as "crude"? There are many substantial differences to TuneLab: - You can rapidly measure inharmonicities across the full scale to achieve precise tunings even with badly scaled instruments. - The tuning algorithm globally optimizes the tuning curve instead of relying on a traditional temperament octave / three part tuning. - You don't have to decide on a single partial combination each for bass, temperament octave und treble. Pianoscope is respecting ALL of the interval combinations of the first ten partials. It automatically weights them based on your style preference and a measurement of the relative partial strengths of an individual instrument. - The tuning indicator does not only react to the frequency of a single partial but automatically derives the pitch from multiple partials weighted by their importance in an individual instrument. Therefore you don't have to switch partials during tuning or configure an extensive table of partials. - The tuning interface is highly optimized for hours of distraction-free tuning, and its look and responsiveness are very customizable. - The automatic note detection is far superior to TuneLab. Most of the time you don't need to touch the device at all during tuning.

А мне больше нравится. 10 лет работал с Tunelab. теперь полностью в Pianoscope Он более точен

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