So glad that you guys made it through without much worse injuries.....god was watching ❤️🇺🇲
@justaperson85603 күн бұрын
There use to be a drop down from the pavement to the ground but now the ground is level with pavement so you don’t have anything to hold you on that side of road and the rest is physics
@pillscottvt66283 күн бұрын
Vermont maple trees don't budge.
@pillscottvt66283 күн бұрын
I live 10 miles away and enjoy a cigar after a Ducati ride to the top.
@robertjosephik40104 күн бұрын
Excellent presentation. I have seen many racing accidents and hear about improvements post accident review, but not to the detail that you provided. Great work
@1929modelagirl10 күн бұрын
Fascinating Frightening Impressive how much energy and damage that car absorbed. The engineering that goes into safety cages is also impressive. I dont know why I was fed this video other than I'm a heavy truck driver, and a fan of machinery in general. Very clear information
@Mukphly11 күн бұрын
Hope the driver & co-driver had complete recoveries. While broken bones hurt, very impressed with the fact your lives were never in peril during the crash & rescue. Things didn't go perfectly, but they could have gone so much worse. Thankful no fire with the damage to the fire suppressant activation cables. Take care, good luck going forward.
@johnbenson303513 күн бұрын
great information very informative
@jasonc530416 күн бұрын
Good you see you are ok-ish. That had to hurt for the next week.
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
Make that months ;)
@CliftonKangas-kj7gh16 күн бұрын
Nice work Margaret
@B.V.Luminous17 күн бұрын
We need to redesign the way that we bolt the restraints, if the only saving grace to the frame was the plate used to hold the restraint, what will happen to the occupants when the impact is larger and the bolt and plate are incapable of holding the forces involved?
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
For cars with weak floors and no reinforcements we usually use a separate bar for the sub-betls (see www.frogracing.us/tech/rally-car-prep/harness-installation for more details). The stock chassis reinforcements are designed to withstand a limited amount of forces, once you exceed that you'll experience more crumpling. Note that this generation of cars was also designed before crash tests started to include offset crashes and this shows in this particular impact.
@AlienLivesMatter17 күн бұрын
Co-driver needs a grab bar, not arm restraints
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
The codriver has to hold his book of notes and turn the pages, he/she cannot hold a grab bar.
@EdAb17 күн бұрын
I hope both of you have had as uneventful a recovery as possible! Thank you for sharing this analysis!
@cbarronie236118 күн бұрын
What an amazing comprehensive breakdown & analysis. This generosity will benefit many for years to come. Bravo!
@AriR-y1u19 күн бұрын
That's great analysis. You guys are lucky to be here. I'm interested in your analysis of the broken clavicle and your opinion that the same outcome would likely have resulted from a hybrid device. I have a different opinion that may be worthwhile for a medical student to consider... Is it possible that it was not the weight of the unrestrained arm that caused the break? I think that the angle of the seat in a rally car being much more upright than in a formula car changes the direction of the forces in an impact... In a rally car, with the HANS device, the weight of the head and helmet moving forward is opposed by the lower braces of the device with the top of the shoulders being the pivot point. In a formula car, because the body angle is much more prostrate, those forces have less opportunity to break the clavicle because they act in a different angle. For this reason I think that it is possible that the hybrid device might not have resulted in this injury. Worth discussing.
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
Doing research for this video., it looks like in formula cars where they have to use a different angle Hans device, there is a high occurrence of collarbones breaking (seems to be awfully common in formula Vee). And those are single occupant cars where the driver is holding to a wheel so the arms are not moving. From what I understood, in the almost horizontal position they have in those cars, in case of a frontal impact, the forces to stop the body from moving forward are the lap belts, the buttocks compressing in the base of the seat that is angled and the top of the shoulder namely the clavicle. There are actually less forces distributed across the torso compared to a more upright position. If you look at the 9 point harnesses used in Formula 1, they have 2 sets of straps at different angles above the shoulder but a majority of the impact is actually absorbed by the seat that has an insert molded to the shape of the driver.
@joseplopez200721 күн бұрын
great analisys, sorry for your injuries and for that nice car
@johngibson383722 күн бұрын
A well explained video glad both were ok it looked very messy
@rodsdmba157123 күн бұрын
I really must commend you for conducting the thoroughly objective investigation and the further investment of preparing the video to share the analysis/lessons learned. It's invaluable. The inevitable emotional impact that accompanies such an incident is invisible and too often goes unspoken. The quality of the content is remarkable under the circumstances. Chapeau! I send my wishes for a speedy and thorough recovery re: both the physical injuries (driver/co-driver) and emotional impacts (the entire team and their families).
@cpzmelbs23 күн бұрын
Very good and informative video. Any reasons why king brand in particular? I find it interesting being from Australia I assumed a product from Europe or the US would be higher quality or better in some way.. lol
@FrogRacing23 күн бұрын
@@cpzmelbs I'm not aware of any offerings for raised springs from other brands for the stock suspension. Lots of lowering springs or coilover offers but King has been a rallycross favorite for decades in the US with an excellent track record for production classes.
@suzylarry123 күн бұрын
amazing safety cage to protect the driver & passenger , after the crash , great unraveling and future planning . Wish well on healing of both occupants
@petermeah23 күн бұрын
So glad you lived to tell the tale Thank you so much for sharing So much work gone into this car to make safe and you needed all of it.
@AndrewKeighley-h3f24 күн бұрын
Hey there really good video about something we all fear, but need to learn from, quick question the seat mounts, bolted from seat to floor bars , where they Aluminum and was there any damage to those ? Seat mounts are under review here in New Zealand, so real world information is the best information, so any news would be appreciated
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
The seat mount were steel in this car, they did not crack or showed sign of damage. As the floor geometry was significantly altered by the roots of the tree when it fell on the car, the floor bars had moved and the seat mounts as a result flexed to follow the new position of the floor bars. Once we unbolted the seat mounts from the car they came back to their original shape and they sat straight on the floor (not that we are going to re-use them but they still look good).
@geneva76024 күн бұрын
CHEERS from AUSTRALIA
@petercunningham346924 күн бұрын
Glad everyone was safe very good summary of this incident especially important for fabrication of a safer vehicle
@gchampi225 күн бұрын
That was one helluva shunt. While I'm sure neither occupant is particularly happy with their injuries, that could've been a LOT worse. There definitely was a touch of bad luck in the way that the framerail just missed the tree, as, had it been more involved in the impact, it would've allowed any inbuilt crumple zones to aid in the energy dissipation. Thankfully, some VERY nice design on the cage saved the day. About the only thing I would've questioned was the use of the full dashboard, and the dash support not being integrated into the cage. As you've learned, while a full dash can look nice, they can be a royal PITA when things go wrong. Something more minimal & better padded might be a consideration for the next car (regulations permitting). Similarly, some padded panels covering the cage forward of the seats might be worth adding. Nothing too complicated, just some 5mm high density foam on a FRP/ally panel to spread any impacts with the door bars over a wider area. Other than that, it might be worth checking with the Fire Crews if there are any nationally recognized ways to identify fuel lines - specific colors or patterns that any Fire Crew would see & automatically know what they are looking at. IDK if there are, but between air safety standards, railroad safety standards, commercial vehicle safety standards, and the like, I wouldn't be surprised to find some way that they already know to identify fuel lines. Well, there's my thoughts. Good luck on the rebuild...
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
The full dashboard is very useful in rally as we need a properly working HVAC system (we can race in -40F temps up to summer heat with often high humidity levels that require very efficient defrosting). In my case, it would have been easy to change the stock dash bar with a new beefier bar (as I bought the car already caged, this was never something that I ever thought to check). Your mileage may vary depending on how old your car is, it's almost a necessity in older cars, sometimes the stock structure in newer cars is sturdier than a single bar. Good idea on color coding the fuel lines. For now we just have a sticker to indicate the location of the kill switch and fire suppression triggers. But for anything close to the cage, it would be a great idea to indicate on the tubing of the cage if fuel or electric lines are nearby. On many cars the lines are hidden under the still bar which would not make them visible even if properly color coded. Thanks for the suggestion!
@lights_camera_coffee25 күн бұрын
Wow, what a major off! Glad it wasn’t worse and hope for quick recovery. Very interesting and thorough analysis
@johnelway482626 күн бұрын
Glad everyone is ok and good info on the rollcages
@Russell_Duncan28 күн бұрын
One of the most interesting things I’ve seen on KZfaq for a very long time. This sort of analysis is invaluable and I have no doubt that it has a place in learning for those who prepare and compete in rally cars and also for rescue and recovery guys in relation to how they train and the types of less common obstacles that were encountered.
@robhurley525828 күн бұрын
Thanks
@giorgosnak9927Ай бұрын
How are you sure that when unscrewing the nut to remove the wheel you are not unscrewing the same time and the stud given that the stud is torqued with less power than the nut
@FrogRacingАй бұрын
@@giorgosnak9927 this is why you are using loctite when installing the studs. The torque of the lug nut is applied to the ball seat and it is mostly a friction force with the wheel insert. It's not like if you had a double nut and all the torque was transferred to the threads of the stud. If you end up with a lot of corrosion and the nut is stuck to the stud then the lug nut will pull out the stud. The same issue can happen with traditional press fit studs except that in that case the stud spins and you cannot remove the lug nut.
@axelknutt5065Ай бұрын
Wow!
@Demop_VW_garageАй бұрын
Man that's a heavy impact!!
@dinosshedАй бұрын
Great information and very well put together documentary. Glad you both lived to tell a tale. It's amazing how strong those subframe chassis are, and I know because I've used an excavator to straighten them. The machine is lifted off the ground whilst pulling in different directions. I broke a half-inch thick chain as well. Maybe try circuit racing next. There's usually no trees to stop you!
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
Some tracks have some gnarly concrete walls but they have less chances to fall on your roof! 😂
@emilioc700Ай бұрын
Given the inputs, surface and speed compared to the earlier run, it almost looks like a mechanical failure more than driver error. Glad you two are going to be OK. Thanks for sharing. The community benefits from the occasional reality check and analysis.
@karstgeo7290Ай бұрын
What harnesses are those?
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
They are the Schroth Flexi 2x2, we have a video about them here: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/b82Rm7aT0N3OaJc.html
@PyinatorАй бұрын
An extremely hard hit. I am glad you are (mostly) ok. Thank you for sharing this breakdown. This is exactly what every team needs to think about when building a car or racing
@RallyJoelАй бұрын
😮 glad your hear to tell the story buddy. That's a rough one
@user-vl5xo8og8sАй бұрын
We learn from history! Worth colour coding, fuel lines, brake lines, water lines as internationally recognised. Harnesses have become wider to spread the loads and they also give. That is why the belts should be regularly changed in rally cars. That was a hard bump but glad all turns out ok.
@TheChumzoАй бұрын
Glad you are ok, thank you for this very well made video. This is real advice which can help keep everyone safer. This could even save someone's life
@backpackguy8Ай бұрын
Great video! Glad to see everyone will make a full recovery 🙏
@akrochikАй бұрын
But will it buff out?
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
No it won't, the car has been cut into pieces
@sgthusky9936Ай бұрын
Loved seeing this car around, my personal favorite at the Climb to the Clouds events. Hope the heeling process and everything goes smoothly. Great informational video about the accident and lots of safety pointers a details.
@StalePhishАй бұрын
Incredibly well researched write-up, thanks Manu. Do you think the data was lost on the Cobb unit or do you think reattaching the chip would provide any useful information?
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
We tried to put the chip back in place but usually the data is cached and the Accessport does not have a battery backup so as soon as it looses power the data is lost and even sometimes the datalog file gets corrupted if the power loss occurs during a flush to the storage. We have had corrupted data files just from stalling the car after a spin. I was hoping to recover the data from previous runs of the day, trying to work with Cobb to see what can be done.
@bobsmolinski3650Ай бұрын
This video should be required viewing for all safety workers, race car builders, and drivers. Thank you Emmanuel for this production and wishing you a swift recovery.
@hondaphilippeАй бұрын
Autopsie méticuleuse d'une accident brutale . Cette vidéo risque d'être utilisé dans des formations de secours/motorsports pour des années à venir . Méthodique comme toujours . Bravo !
@matthewmucci9107Ай бұрын
I know nothing about the data recorder and how it stores data and if it is doing it real time or caching it, but it may be possible to have it repaired and the data recovered. There are many business that offer that kind of service.
@FrogRacing8 күн бұрын
We tried to put the chip back in place but usually the data is cached and the Accessport does not have a battery backup so as soon as it looses power the data is lost and even sometimes the datalog file gets corrupted if the power loss occurs during a flush to the storage. We have had corrupted data files just from stalling the car after a spin. I was hoping to recover the data from previous runs of the day, trying to work with Cobb to see what can be done. Cobb had been sponsoring us in the past so they will be the best ones to retrieve any data.
@matthewmucci91077 күн бұрын
@@FrogRacing thanks for the reply, that sucks kinda sounds like it is in volatile memory.
@malswann9128Ай бұрын
I really appreciate the detailed analysis & your openness in posting this. This provides a great leaning opportunity for many different groups. Thank You
@low_mu_motorsportsАй бұрын
Thank you for the detailed analysis, very educational!
@johnpooley3Ай бұрын
Great learning material!
@jacobbordin8718Ай бұрын
Hopping for speedy recoveries glad both are in good spirits!