Stay tuned. This load is being adjusted and a different choke being used (working through data and my patterns on this video showed the blown pattern to be from Over-constriction). The new “Turkey Thunder” Version 2.0 will be a better performer and still use the #4 NP lead pellets. Good luck with your Damascus SxS 10! That will sure be one hell of a turkey hunt killing on e with such a classic. I need to do the same with my Syracuse Arms SxS Damascus 12ga. Remington made the #4 2-1/4oz load for the 10ga up until last year when they went bankrupt. They are still on the market and I have several boxes of them. They are good, but not nearly as good as what I and another gentleman have been cooking up and bouncing ideas around on.

@@AmericanArmsChannel I still have the Remington 2 1/4 oz number 4,5 and 6's left. Just a few of each. I still.have some 2 1/4 oz classic lead BB by federal laying around for coyotes

Awesome! I wish TSS was not so cost prohibitive, as bigger shot of TSS-15 or 18 would make for incredible extreme long range turkey loads. 2-1/2oz of #6 TSS at 1,200 FPS would make a 90 yard turkey gun in the 10ga with the right choke. Congrats on the new 10ga and welcome to the clan! Thanks for watching! - Drake #Mighty10gaClan

American Arms Channel- Why in the world would you want a 90yd turkey gun? If you can’t get em in close, try em again in another set up or another day. Close encounters is what makes turkey hunting.

Does a guy have to have a reason? I like them in my lap too. But sometimes it’s just fun to see what you can get equipment to do. It’s legal and a common practice here in Virginia to hunt turkey’s with a rifle (rimfire or centerfire). I don’t hunt turkey’s with a rifle, but that’s just the way I do it. Just because I could potentially create an 80 or 90 yard turkey load doesn’t mean I’ll use it at that range. I’m smart enough and conscious enough to work within my limitations. If I know I can probably or most definitely kill a turkey with X load at Y distance, I’m going to limit my shots to 5 or 10 yards less than that distance. 1) because I may underestimate the distance (margin of error), and 2) it makes me feel comfortable and confident with the shot. For me, the reason for the 10ga and a heavy, long range load is not to just shoot game at distance because I can, but because I might have to if I want to have game meat in the pot. Turkey hunting, I’ve had plenty of birds hang up in just enough brush or at just enough of a distance that I could not kill them with my 12ga loads. So, I’ve gone to the 10ga and heavy, hand tuned loads. If a bird hangs up within my lethal range and I have not yet bagged a bird, I can take the shot. If he doesn’t come into that range I need him at, then too bad for me. Once I kill one or two birds this season I very well may switch to hunting with the 28ga or the Auto-5 to give myself a challenge. But until I fill a tag, I will take every advantage I can.

@@AmericanArmsChannel hey brother as long as what you are doing is legal you don't have to explain yourself.. we are all hunters and shooters for diff reasons and we need to stand up for each other. If you wanna use a 8 gauhe that's your business. Lots these people don't understand that not all us want to spend the money for tss.

I have a BP & an SP ..... ..... you just gotta love the big 10. !

Thank you. I’m glad you enjoyed it. I have refined this load significantly and changed shot to Precision Reloading’s #4 Nickel Plated lead. I have also settled on a Kick’s Gobbling Thunder .690” for my G10 and have good patterns out to 60+ yards. At one point I played with the smaller shot mixed load for turkeys, but I’ve never been impressed by the patterns or the concept of using the smaller shot to be the solution of filling the pattern or allowing for greater spread for closer range shots when choked tight. The marketing of the “cone of death” for these triplex loads is, in my opinion and experience, just marketing. Point of note regarding the densities you reference: Lead in it’s 100% pure elemental form density of 11.34 g/cc, whereas Hevi-Shot (Tungsten composite) is about 12.0 g/cc on the nose. The thing is, lead used in shot is not pure, and the best shot, prior to plating, has high antimony content to increase its hardness. Typically, ideal antimony content for hard shot is about 6% to 8%. This brings the density of lead shot to about 10.9 g/cc, though some will argue it hovers around 11.1 g/cc (which is definitely the case when using minimal antimony content of 2% to 4%, as most common “dead soft” pellet charged target loads do). Hevi-13, ITX-13, TSS-15, and TSS-18 are all significantly better than lead in the density department and pattern performance using smaller shot sizes as a result. It is absolutely arguable that the 8.6% increase in density going from 10.9 to 11.1 g/cc lead shot to 12 g/cc Hevi-shot for a 7 to 9 times increase in price is not worth the squeeze and lead is the more practical choice. The story absolutely changes, as you eluded to, when we cross over in the 13 g/cc density shot types and higher; 15.5% and higher density starts to increase the performance and ballistic efficiency of the shot material enough that it begins to make sense to take on the additional expense for that squeeze. My only problem with the high density shot it the cost per pound, because after all, at a certain point how much more dead can a game bird be? Haha

For some reason this comment was "held for review" and I am just seeing it now... I responded to your other comment on a separate video with some load data on my "Turkey Thunder" Version 2.0 load. I would see if you can find IMR Blue, Blue Dot, Vhit. 3N38 or 3N37, or STEEL for powders. All will allow for 2 to 2.75 ounce loads at moderate velocities. The TPS10 wad with some form of a cushion has been the best option for lead and bismuth loads in my experience.

@@AmericanArmsChannel thanks fir the reply. Don’t have any of those powders on hand. Found a 3 oz load the other day from Hal Abbot using lil gun. I loaded up a couple with copper plated #5’s to try. Roll crimped with federal hulls and cutting down about a quarter inch get them approx .2” longer than factory fold crimp rounds. They cycle in my gun just fine. I’ll have to test them in the next couple weeks. I’ll have to try and find some blue dot or steel.

Hey Tripple Beards. Lil' Gun will work with the BPD10 and 2-1/2oz of shot. Work up slow, but reports from Jarek in Ohio are that it works great from 2-1/4 to 3oz lead and tss payloads. I have used both pre-slit and non-slit wads and not found too much difference. The V2 "Turkey Thunder" load uses the Rem hull, 38gr Blue Dot, TPS 10 with 1/8" Foam cushion wad, 2.5oz PR No 4 NP Lead and 5CC of PRSB under a 6pt fold crimp. Excellent patterns. I have found best results in the following guns and chokes: Mag-10 w/Briley Thin Wall Chokes: .735" Extended XF Gold 10: Kick's Gobbling Thunder .695" BPS 10: Kick's Gobbling Thunder .690" I'd suggest using a foam or a felt cushion wad instead of cork. While the cork does compress, it is a bit more ridged and acts as more of a filler than a cushion. You can also completely change it up and go to a SP10 or PT1044 wad and a mylar wrap to get your 2.5oz cushioned and protected from the bore. Lil' Gun powder will also work with that combo.

@@AmericanArmsChannel thanks for the reply. I finally just got more number fives in the mail today. I was planning on trying a three slit and two slit in the three various lengths like I did with the four slit wads and then try them all out for patterning.

@@AmericanArmsChannel shot them last week! The most even pattern put 151 hits of #5 in a 10” circle at 45 yards. That was with 4 slits down to the 4th ring on the ruff wad. Four slits to the 5th ring I had 159 hits of #5 in a 10 inch circle at 45 yards. The 2 slit all the way to the base of the wad hit high and I ended up with 142 hits. The fourth load which was four slits to the third ring down hit high at 45 yards and backed out the primer an eighth inch. All were loaded with 45 grains of lil gun and a .690 code black turkey tube. I’ll have to load some more of the 151 hit #5 load and try them at 25 and closer. Also 50, 60, and keep going till my patten falls off. I’m guessing it will hold a pattern and kill a lot farther than most will shoot at a turkey with lead. I used a clear learning chip over my load with a roll crimp.

They are my top choice in lead shot for turkeys, especially Nickel Plated #4's. Thanks for watching. - Drake

Yes, I can do a load video just Like my Buckshot and 2-7/8” dove load 10ga shell videos.

@@AmericanArmsChannel I'd also would like to see a 3 1/2 dove load in the 10 guage

@@sean-michaeljoyce3130 Do you mean you would like to see a very light for bore load in a magnum hull for cycling purposes in a auto-loader, or a standard 3-1/2" field load using fine shot? Both are possible and their are a number of loads published for 1-1/2oz and up lead field loads in the 10ga 3-1/2" magnum hull. In my opinion, loading these charge weights or greater of fine shot for such a small game is a bit of a waste, but if it fits your purposes or is simply what you want to do, have at it! The light for bore load would balance best at 1-1/4oz to 1-3/8oz of #7 shot at about 1,250 to 1,400 FPS when using a magnum hull. You could take any magnum fold crimp hull and, as long as you place a gas seal at the bottom of the wad column, use a number of spacer wad options to bring the shot-cup and shot column up to height for crimping. Fiber or Cork wads of 12 or 11ga sizing would work well and be cost effective. Keeping the power piston on the 10ga shot-cup (either a PT1044 or a SP10 wad) would provide for the most efficient use of components and add additional cushioning for the fine shot to stay round upon setback at firing. Powders that would work the best would be the same for standard and heavy field loads in a 12ga, but an increase in powder charge will be required. Powders such as Green Dot, Longshot, Herco, 800-X, and Blue Dot are all able to create both the gas volume to cycle an auto-loader (if that is the concern) and provide significant velocity for "long-range" dove loads out of the 10ga.

@@AmericanArmsChannel yeah looking for a medium load that is a lily cheaper to reload but will still cycle in my Ithaca

@@AmericanArmsChannel thanks for the info would like to see a vid on it though a good skeet load to practice with steel is to expensive to practice with

Can you share a link to that video? I’ve not seen it. 80 yards is a bit far for a lead blend using that small of shot.

kzfaq.info/get/bejne/aa6eh65hp66tqYE.html

@@AmericanArmsChannel he mentions steps calling it same as yards. I read he is 6’3 so he got a pretty good size step. It may have been 4-5-7 blend. I bought one of the chokes with longbeard xr shells it was nothing like what he shoots

@@heathalford4721 I’m suspicious of those claimed yardages. It is entirely possible to achieve 60 yard kills with hand tuned lead loads, and especially with a customized gun/choke. However, the video never shows perspective of shooter to target. Also, if he’s 6’3” (I’m 6’3” with long legs) and taking normal strides, his average step should be over a yard. So it would be most likely further than he claimed, which I doubt. The choke is cool looking and definitely has a long parallel section, but I don’t believe it to be worth $70 more than a Carlson’s of similar constriction. I would believe these patterns and shot distances with TSS or even ITX-13/Hevi-13 but I don’t know that they clarify what load type they are using. Typically a “tri-plex” or 3 shot blend like 4-5-6 or 5-6-7 is not for range but variable distances. The smallest pellets will fill patter gaps or, in theory, spread faster and allow for more error on close range shots. While the medium and large sizes fill out the core for distance. This idea is hopeful at best and I have never discovered a comprehensive evaluation of those loads doing what the marketing claims. A straight shot size is best, and I believe in lead shot a nickel plated #4 or #5 is best. If you are truly looking for an 80 yard 10ga turkey load, a stout charge of 2-5/8 or 2-3/4oz of buffered TSS-18 in #6 or #7 shot with a start velocity of 1,100 FPS would be the ticket. An extended .705” choke would be ideal as well.

1,100-1,200 FPS is an ideal velocity for lead shot. I re-worked and refined this loading by going to a proper Nickel Plated shot type that was much harder, using a shot cushion wad, mylar wrap, and dialing the powder charge down to get consistent 1,100-1,150 FPS averages. All this, in addition to switching to a different choke and constriction lead to better patterns.

@@AmericanArmsChannel Fair enough. I believe that there was old trick that unscrupulous gunsmiths would do when attempting to show how tightly their chokes would pattern; they would fire a subsonic load down the gun, and obviously with no supersonic to subsonic transition the shot would pattern very tightly. I was just wondering whether it would be worth attempting the same thing here. What choke did you end up using?

I concluded testing in the spring of '21 with finalizing the "Turkey Thunder 2.0" as described above and settling on the Kick's Gobbling Thunder .695" choke tube. I have a contact that was experimenting with similar 2-1/2oz loads and out of his 24" G10 found exceptional patterns with the .690" GT, which blew patterns in my gun. Lots of tinkering to work extra full chokes into sweet spots that meet extended range needs for turkey hunting, but it's impressive when you finally get a load and choke combo right. Subsonic loads can pattern very well, but it is not so much the transonic barrier that disturbs patterns down range as it is the setback and pellet deformation that occurs at ignition. In fact, with many fine shot lead shot shell loads, the payload crosses the sonic barrier relatively soon (anywhere from 15 to 35 yards from the muzzle, depending on shot size and muzzle velocity) and this rarely accounts for pattern disruption that has any significant measure. This is especially true when considering how many other factors influence a pattern between the muzzle and the target, let alone what is happening inside the shotgun. To continue, a powder type that with moderate charge that experiences relatively complete burn and produces low velocities will have a much more gentle burn rate and pressure curve, imparting less force on the payload. The pellets at the bottom of the column are subjected the greatest amount of force as they are punched by the expanding gasses behind them and impacting/being pressed against the remainder of the payload that is at rest in the forward portions of the payload. This force causes deformation, which in turn leads to erratic flight characteristics. Fliers, collisions with other pellets in the payload as the charge goes down range, and excess drag due to irregular shape instead of a perfect sphere all contribute to mediocre and blown patterns, just from deformation at setback. It is this deformation at setback that is the most significant factor when it comes to controlling patterns outside of tuning choke constriction to discover the sweet spot for extended range patterns. This is why some of your best patterning loads, in general, will utilize very hard shot types at box rated muzzle velocities from 1,050 to 1,300 FPS. It is a balance of maintaining down range energy and penetration with a given shot size and reducing the chances of deforming pellets at set-back. Now comes the balance of retained energy and ensuring patterns hold. When confining the topic to that of lead shot, the harder the better, and their is no better than high antimony, chilled, nickel plated shot. When made properly, like that supplied by Precision Reloading (not sponsored, it's just a fact they sell the best NP lead shot), it is incredibly consistent and extremely hard. This reduces the chances of deformation at set-back and allows for greater force/pressure to be used before pellets are deformed; I.E., greater velocities are possible. Why do we want to have greater velocity? Energy/Penetration on target. The problem with subsonic lead loads is their efficacy in dispatching game birds, including head/neck shot turkeys, at extended ranges. There is not a lot of energy in #4 and #5 fine shot (lead), and even though it only takes about 0.9 to 1.5 ft-lbs to knock clean into a turkey's skull or spine, the range at which you can reliably do this is greatly reduced with smaller shot sizes and lower velocities. So, to ensure that long range patterns are maintained and the efficacy of the pellets' killing power at those desired ranges is maintained, it is important to push appropriately sized pellets at velocities that maintain the required energy. The catch .22 of this situation is that the faster you push a sphere an exponential increase in drag is incurred as the price. The same statement is true as you increase the size a sphere. This is why low density materials, like iron (steel) shot, are such poor ballistic performers. So, with this understanding, it becomes extremely important to create balanced loads that achieve both quality patterns and acceptable energy/penetration on target at the ranges that are reasonable for each given load. Not a small feat to achieve in any measure, but consistently doable. Tom Roster and the late Bob Brister both went into great detail about pellet deformation, shot hardness, and balancing shot loads in their written works. If you are interested in learning more (lord knows I do every time I read their works), I highly recommend picking up some of their books and Roster's load manuals. Brister's "Shotgunning: The Art and Science" is an exceptional read and really helps put everything you need to be successful in wingshooting or just playing with scatter guns into your mind's eye.

@@AmericanArmsChannel Thanks for the recommendation and the detailed response; I'll check Brister out as I've not heard of him thus far. Load manuals are unfortunately of limited use to me as I can't get hold of many American components. I was under the impression that the trans-sonic barrier was quite important - even with steel shot the lower velocity loads typically pattern more tightly. But again as you say, it's a complex system with many moving parts, not a univariate problem. On a somewhat related note, have you attempted using alternating layers of fillers and shot? I've wondered whether this would be beneficial for lead shot but have never tested it. And on an unrelated note - I'm attempting a non-plaswad steel load for the 10. This really only leaves nitro cards/cork wads as an obturator, and they're typically less efficient than a plastic wad or gas seal. I was wondering then whether a 9 gauge nitro card would fit into a 10 gauge hull. Obviously it would be a tight fit, but if it could be shoved in it opens up a lot more options for me. Thanks again.