100% in 15 mins - How India Has Cracked Rapid Charging with Arun Vinayak

100% in 15 mins - How India Has Cracked Rapid Charging with Arun Vinayak | The Fully Charged Podcast

Рет қаралды 11,216

3 ай бұрын

Do we need big batteries in all our EVs? And what would happen if we sized the battery to the need and then supported the need with ultra rapid charging?
Well, in this week’s podcast Robert is joined by Arun Vinayak, co-founder of Exponent Energy in India, an energy startup that have done just that, and in the process they have unlocked a 15 minute charge for EVs.
The move to electric is a global phenomenon, and this podcast is a great insight into what’s happening in South Asia.
Find out more about Exponent Energy here: www.exponent.energy/
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Пікірлер: 110

@erwindewit4073 3 ай бұрын

I like the positive stories from India, changing the way most westerners think about the country. Still, I always wondered why electric mopeds in Europe can never rapid charge. That makes them pretty useless to me.. Small battery very rapid charging is much much smarter I think... Who knows, India might just show us how it's done. Very cool!

@NealeUpstone 3 ай бұрын

Listening to Arun brings a big smile to my face. This is what good economics is about - understanding transaction costs, opportunity costs and system constraints. There would be far more entrepreneurs like him if we actually taught economics properly in college.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

Yelp, the post is all about economics ;)

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

No. More waffle.

@burnttoast9890 3 ай бұрын

You need an indian correspondent asap ! Our modes of transport both public and private is changing rapidly and it would be great if this channel throw some light on it.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

Intriguing technology, but the fact that coolant is being exchanged between the charger and the battery pack via a priority connector, means it has limited applications. What happens if there's a problem between the two systems such as contamination of the coolant, who takes responsibility?

@burnttoast9890 3 ай бұрын

@@nc3826 did you even read what I said ?

@burnttoast9890 3 ай бұрын

@@nc3826 are you a bot ? My comment isn't even about the tech in the video ? It's about the changing landscape of India from power production , distribution and consumption aspects. What a clown 🤡

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

I wish I was a bot.... Then your pointless rationalization wouldn't be so sad.... Have a nice day my obtuse triggered friend....

@johnsamsungs7570 3 ай бұрын

Great to see the different solutions to the same problems! Just as well I could turn on the closed captioning as I find it hard to understand a lot of people from the subcontinent. But it looks like a home grown solution to a there own types of problems.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

Interesting innovative priority technology, but it raises more questions than it answers. Since a water based coolant is being pumped into and back out of the battery, from the charger. Who takes responsibility if there is a coolant failure in the battery? And what happens if it contaminates the coolant going to the charger? The intriguing BMS and external coolant seems very innovative, but the priority nature of the technology seems not to be widely scalable? It only makes sense if the owner of the EVs also are the owners of the chargers,. such as for a fleet application. It's somewhat analogous to battery swapping. FWIW Exponent Energy has a KZfaq post that explains it better in 3 minutes than the podcast did. For anybody who wants more details about it

@LarryRPark 3 ай бұрын

Their model means that they own BOTH the battery AND the charger so there is no "finger pointing" when there is a coolant problem.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

@LarryRPark, That was an assumed requirement. Thanks for the confirmation.

@Pats-Shed 3 ай бұрын

As Arun stated in the video , the coolant is drained from the battery side at the end of charging.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

@Pats-Shed that's included in the OC

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

To clarify the points being made, in the OC. Is questioning its 'scalability'? Due to the proprietary nature and central ownership requirements of the technology.

@Nick_Smith1970 3 ай бұрын

I'm amazed Tesla haven't already done this, seeing as they design the battery pack, the charger, the cables, the connector, the management system etc.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

I'm amazed how many Elon cult drones patriot 'I'm amazed Tesla haven't already done this' after every post. Enjoy the Kool-Aid...

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

I'm amazed how many Elon cult drones patriot 'I'm amazed Tesla haven't already done this' after every post. Enjoy the Kool-Aid...

@Sq7Arno 3 ай бұрын

Marvelously clever! The world is lucky that there are both markets where the EV transition tends to proceed from the high-end down, as well as the low-end up, I think. Ultimately the optimal late stage solutions will be found somewhere in the middle. I think it would have been unlikely that a solution like this would originate from within a top-down market where, as he said, the thermal management systems cost more than the entire vehicle in India. The motivation for it would simply be lost among the host of other opportunities for optimization.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

Might one enquire if you're one of Arun's mates? It's just that you waffle in exactly the same manner.

@Sq7Arno 3 ай бұрын

@@t1n4444 I said what I wanted to say. YT comments are already mostly pointless. Not sure what to say about commentary about the style of YT comments... Seems extra pointless.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

@@Sq7Arno 🤣🤣🤣🤣

@nc3826 2 ай бұрын

@@Sq7Arno The ignorant only want attention. Silence is most often the most intelligent response.

@gillscorner794 3 ай бұрын

Its interesting that the European motor industry seems very constrained by their traditional industry model in comparison to the indian industry, which is a massive advantage for india in a disruptive technology

@DGBTSLALUFC 2 ай бұрын

Tesla V4 chargers are being installed in the UK and I believe they charge in 15 mins. Also, some Gridserve chargers do that!

@nc3826 2 ай бұрын

Good luck in believing... Since excess capacity, doesn't charge an EV any faster. If you want true fast DCFC charging, get a Taycan or a Hyundai E-GMP based EV. And wave goodbye to the Tesla driver.

@mrmawson2438 3 ай бұрын

Cheers Robert and Arun

@mrmawson2438 3 ай бұрын

Sounds bloody good

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

You're not an engineer, then?

@MortenLeeRai 2 ай бұрын

Awesome! We really need a much better understanding of progress in both India and China as the 2.5 billion populations which are moving the EV needle fast with impact

@Pottery4Life 3 ай бұрын

Thank you.

@frejaresund3770 3 ай бұрын

I have been enjoyed, so thank you for delivering.

@grahamastor4194 3 ай бұрын

Looking forward to seeing you at EE London!

@highlanderapparel 3 ай бұрын

Kindness is always free now. I need to see if Clan Buchanan has a presencein India. The Highlander❤😊 And if we don't have a presence, we will soon.😊

@patrickmckowen2999 3 ай бұрын

Fantastic 👍 I want to see more about this 😍 Cheers from Canada

@AJames-jr8kw 3 ай бұрын

Gave up listening less than 10 min in. I did go to the Exponent Energy 3min YT vid. Learned that charging 16 times faster produces 256 times (16²) more heat. Who knew?

@robinhood4640 3 ай бұрын

If you want more technical details, i would recommend the song "the wheels on the bus go round and round". I can't remember the name of the writer/singer, but it covers the basics of how a bus works.

@AJames-jr8kw 3 ай бұрын

So they pump chilled water into the battery to keep it at 25-35 degrees C. So they generate 256 times the waste heat of normal charging. That is a lot of energy going as heat instead of electricity into battery., .

@hOZish7 3 ай бұрын

Because the charge is finished faster it's not as bad as that (I believe the waste energy will be proportional to the charge speed, rather than heating power which is proportional to the square of charge speed), but yes there will be more energy wasted. I think we can live with wasting a bit of electricity in order to make the vehicles convenient enough to convince people away from ICE.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

@@hOZish7 Perhaps you missed the bit where Arun tells us that batteries are being charged up several times a day. Are you sure you understood this idea is complete bollocks? No, clearly not.

@hOZish7 3 ай бұрын

@@t1n4444 Haha Ross, are you having a nice conversation with yourself? I did not miss the bit about charging multiple times a day. It's a great way to get more out of limited battery materials. They are working hard to maximise the number of cycles they can last so I have no issue with it.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

@@hOZish7 😜😜😜 Allow me: the very frequent charging thing (as we were informed) allows this claim of fully charged batteries in just fifteen minutes to be technically correct ... if the battery is already at 95% charge. Now, this statement, although technically correct, implied, at first glance, the battery is at a very low state of charge and can be charged in the blink of an eyelid at sixteen times the normal rate of charge. This is bollocks. Consider if a battery is "force fed" at sixteen times the 1C current ... how long do you suppose it's going to last? You will recall the process has to be water cooled ... you should know too that heat is the death of a lithium ion battery. The three London buses which caught fire very recently would have been worked very hard so as to maintain the service level. If you can be arsed to Google up the charging protocol for a lithium ion battery (to save me cribbing it out here) then you will learn that said protocol is "quite" important. Hope that helps, and you're very welcome.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

The way to increase "cycles" is to reduce the charging voltage per cell. To increase the charging voltage above 4.5v seems the best way to shorten the life of a lithium ion cells. Perhaps if you and others of a similar mind were to research the lithium ion recharging protocols then you would realise, quite quickly, that lithium ion cells require a lot of management in the charging department, to ensure a long working life. Voltage (input) and temperature are critical when recharging. As has been made all too clear lithium ion batteries can and do catch fire when in a vehicle. (London buses.) They catch fire when in storage (awaiting recycling) too. Only a short time ago 900 tonnes of batteries self ignited. This was in France if anyone wants to do the Google thing. That Arun bloke was asked to opine on why there were so many battery fires in India. That was around a year ago on another platform. He was clueless and pointed at physical issues. Not even a hint at the chemistry going bad.

@Joeb4iley 2 ай бұрын

Reading westbound has both gridserve and Tesla v4 chargers for a number of months, always interesting to see gridserve chargers empty until all the Tesla chargers are full.

@danielmadar9938 2 ай бұрын

Thanks ❤

@urbanstrencan 2 ай бұрын

Awsome story and tech that is adopted for different markets. Great podcast, love listening to it ❤😊

@snowstrobe 3 ай бұрын

You guys should have a reporter in India. (Tho I realise that might not be fundable.) We should all be focussing on small vehicles.

@boballen9095 3 ай бұрын

Interesting insights on how the focus for India is very different (primary focus is low cost and long battery-life most commonly for either small vehicles like the common tuk tuks or "auto rickshaw", or for public transit like busses). The chemistry used is equally interesting.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

Size doesn't seem to be a factor, since they are two different extremes.... And doesn't everyone want longer battery life and lower cost? How's this only relative to India?

@outbackev-hunter6035 3 ай бұрын

Could you use this system to not onlyfast charge but mitigate thermal runaway situations when not charging?

@uproid 3 ай бұрын

People constantly say that Tesla are the only chargers where you can just plug in and it charges automatically on your account. They seem to forget that Fastned in the UK works in exactly the same way - with any EV (works great on my Kia Niro EV). So the chargers and cars can already do it - just needs the other charging companies to pull their fingers out and implement it. Next time you are interviewing a charging company manager, instead of just telling them how wonderful they are, why don't you ask that question?

@sennlich 3 ай бұрын

so, how much kw per hour is it ? or how muck km range per hour ? have i missed it? how much wasting for cooling? i think he is talking about 10kwh Batteries charging with 40kw in 15 minutes but using 20kwh because of the heating waste. this is queationable isnt it ? Physics is the same than in Europe or Us.. But the price per kwh in India seems to be low? Or whats the point here. Dont understand it realy . Sorry for my bad englih im a german tesla driver. so they seem to charge every 80 to 100 km or what? Only for cities? OK like a e-scooter 2 wheeler in germany?

@mikemellor759 3 ай бұрын

I valued the insight into the energy transition into a major economy which doesn’t have other coverage. It would be great to have an update where Robert was able to assist Aaron explain his ideas eg speed of charging: what is the C vs UK standard Kw?

@robinwhitebeam4386 3 ай бұрын

I would like to see ' State of Play ' reports, if possible , relating to : different countries , regional areas , city verses countryside , developed , poor , state promotion , self help etc . What is happening out there ? I get the feeling the F C E Team may be the only ones who can possibly have a handle on the state of play and draw all the pieces together.

@caterthun4853 3 ай бұрын

Why in UK cities does small ev vechicles are not being accepted

@Charvak-Atheist 2 ай бұрын

Nice

@floydbertagnolli944 3 ай бұрын

No offense but I had trouble understanding the guest …the closed caption feature was very helpful. Good info. Thx.

@edmcdonagh978 3 ай бұрын

I know Robert isn't one for pushing back, but there did appear to be a lot of "let's just make it smart' type responses. And I didn't like that the statement "you can't innovate if you have open standards, you have to have a proprietary stack top to bottom" (I paraphrase, I'm listening on the podcast and i haven't reached back) was left to stand without any probing

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

I agree, but to be fair later in the podcast he does give more details. And Exponent Energy does have a 3-minute post on KZfaq that explains it much better and more detailed, than the podcast. And with the coolant being passed between the charger and the vehicle, not only does the technology have to be proprietary, they shouldn't be separately owned. In other words it has to be a completely closed ended ecosystem. Limiting scalability especially in the West. I hope this helps.

@simonwile5110 2 ай бұрын

Tesla has been proprietary for a decade with its NACS port and superchargers being a closed system. How is this different?

@nc3826 2 ай бұрын

Tesla 'had' been proprietary. But they had to adopt the local standard long ago. (And even in NA, J3400 uses CCS protocols and the connector is no longer proprietary) Plus how many billions did Tesla have to develop its proprietary ecosystem? For every Tesla, how many companies fail at developing proprietary ecosystems? 'How do you expect this proprietary technology to succeed', without those resources? So good luck investing in the company. But at least KZfaq experts overly simplistic view of the world. Is useful for making the rest of us amused ;)

@alaneasthope2357 3 ай бұрын

Arun's audio was poor, and with such a strong accent I found it difficult to follow the conversation. I looked at their website video and got the basic idea. Clever idea to use the charger to provide the battery cooling via a custom algorithm

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

Exponent Energy also has an excellent KZfaq post.... I just question its scalability? Since it requires the ownership of the chargers and the vehicles to be the same entity. Otherwise liability becomes an issue, due to the coolant exchange. And I'm sure many Indians have a hard time understanding some Western accents. Thank goodness for captioning.

@robertsmart5600 3 ай бұрын

What was that all about?

@mrmawson2438 3 ай бұрын

Morning

@pinkelephants1421 3 ай бұрын

Handy wee name pronunciation tip Robert. Arun is pronounced A-roon, not Aaron. Names originating from different languages/cultures can be challenging, and most of us struggle with the pronunciation of both places & people from time to time, myself included. Great interview. All the best. 😊

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

thanks for that pedantic interlude

@pinkelephants1421 3 ай бұрын

@@nc3826 Don't you just love it when some numpty tries to turn a kindly, well meaning FYI into a sarcastic slanging match? I spent 6mths teaching myself the correct pronunciation of the double ll in the Welsh language so I wouldn't be that damn foreigner who was too lazy to make a half decent stab at showing basic respect for my host country and community. People generally appreciate the effort, even if you never quite get it right as it shows you value them and their culture. I remember the many occasions whereby Robert has always tried to do his best to do this with the various guests & or stories he's interviewed or covered, and I for one, greatly admire his level of sensitivity.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

exactly..... that ofc is the salient points of the post... have a nice day my anal retentive pedantic friend...

@dxutube 3 ай бұрын

Strong accent meant I could only understand about half of what he said

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

And the rest was bollocks.

@malcolm8564 3 ай бұрын

I don't know how big the batteries are in those vehicles but maybe it would be better to have a battery swap system.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

Hmm, so you believe there should be battery swaps for every car, then.

@patmurphy8118 2 ай бұрын

Sorry , but I did not understand even half of what he said with the very fast Indian accent. I see below , that someone turned on the subtitles! Duh !

@tjam4229 3 ай бұрын

We shouldn’t even be using batteries. The roads should be electrified. If you take all the money spent on charging infrastructure, all the money spent on factories, building, batteries, factories building chargers, billions upon billions of dollars spent on mining and manufacturing batteries. All this money should be put into electrifying the roads. electricity is the only fuel that can travel alongside you, that you do not have to haul with you. Yet here we are, hauling 2000 pounds of extra weight that doesn’t need to be hauled.

@MarcFresko 3 ай бұрын

@FullyCharged, please note: i just watched the 3-minute KZfaq video from Exponent Energy and learned as much as i want about this. Would i have learned more with your video? I don't know, and won't find out - - 46 minutes is just too long.

@colinwiseman 3 ай бұрын

Too long for you. Perfect length for me :) Conversations are great.

@eclecticcyclist 3 ай бұрын

I agree that the video on the Exponent Energy website gave a far clearer explanation but It wasn't the length of the video that I struggled with but his accent and speed of delivery.

@colinwiseman 3 ай бұрын

@@eclecticcyclist whose accent and speed? Robert or the person being interviewed?

@eclecticcyclist 3 ай бұрын

@@colinwiseman Isn't that obvious?

@colinwiseman 3 ай бұрын

@@eclecticcyclist not really. I can understand both quite fine. Some people don't understand my accent and I'm British 🤪 but if you can't understand the Indian dude then turn on captions?

@felderup 3 ай бұрын

i spose, aside from charging, a cooling fan would be more than enough.

@eclecticcyclist 3 ай бұрын

He explains that when the ambient temperature is higher than the ideal operating temperature of the bttery that a fan is not going the make a difference .

@felderup 3 ай бұрын

@@eclecticcyclist while charging.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

Hmm ... this guest seemed a bit vague and a bit light on the detail. And a bit "deflective" you might say. Robert did try to bring him back to specifics but all we learned is the charging current is sixteen times "normal" snd the batteries are water cooled during the charging process. Seems as if there are significant losses in the heating of the water. How was the circulating water cooled between charging cycles? How hot does the cooling water become? Was the waste heat produced in the charging process used for any useful purpose? No actual charging times were quoted and the model seemed to rely on "frequent" charging throughout the day. Could it be the batteries can't hold a charge for long? No mention or explanation supplied. This technology is a mix of water cooling and high current ... The batteries will still take a right kicking ... so that's alright, then. Robert that was an utter waste of your time. Really it was.

@rtfazeberdee3519 3 ай бұрын

This was a high level chat , not detail for battery experts like you. Ask Dr Euan McTurk to do a battery tech podcast with him instead.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

@@rtfazeberdee3519 🤣🤣🤣🤣 A "high level chat" you say. You should be penning scripts for stand ups. Seriously, your drollery is wasted on this platform and needs a much wider audience. Had you studied Robert's face and "noddies" it was clear he was struggling to get some "actual" technical understanding, and tried his best to get this "battery charging guru" to say something meaningful on his miraculous "breakthrough" of charging to 100% capacity in 15 minutes. Utter, utter bollocks.

@t1n4444 3 ай бұрын

If anyone troubled to research this Arun bloke then they might have been amused by an interview he gave on an Indian YT channel about a year ago. He was invited to explain why there were so many battery fires (in India). His answer was as illuminating as the old guff he waffled at Robert. His host appeared to be unimpressed with the answer. And not one comment in over a year, not one.

@theunknownunknowns5168 3 ай бұрын

Where's the proper host gone? Obviously she's been promoted and we got this newbie, probably a little known retired bbc presenter.

@jonevansauthor 3 ай бұрын

Yeah. Seems vaguely robotic to me.

@theunknownunknowns5168 3 ай бұрын

Makes me want to cry... ten times.

@ndudman8 3 ай бұрын

The low iq low tech detail has taken over :(

@colinwiseman 3 ай бұрын

Are you be facetious? Robert Llewellyn is very famous.

@colinwiseman 3 ай бұрын

@@jonevansauthor phew! So was the OG just being a bit of a SMEEEE....HEEEEEEE.... :D

@nigelgarvey2046 3 ай бұрын

Someone forgot to turn off the adverts this week. Three breaks in the first ten minutes. Sadly, the constant interruptions and Arun's almost impenetrable accent make it impossible to concentrate on what's he's saying.

@nc3826 3 ай бұрын

Ironic..... over a billion in the subcontinent, said the same thing about Robbie boys accent....

@nigelgarvey2046 3 ай бұрын

@@nc3826 🙂 I wasn't complaining about Arun's accent, but the adverts which kept disrupting my attempts to tune my ear to it. When I get an opportunity, I'll listen again on a podcast app.