Appoint that needs to be made about hydrogen, that the entire green world has been running on hydrogen cycle ie water splitting for billions of years the oil companies also are working with a hydrogen cycle, splitting hydrogen off of carbon and then putting them back together again in hydrocracking and hydroforming to give us new hydrocarbons whatever we want. With a hydrogen system, we can achieve long-term seasonal storage at a better cost effectiveness than batteries. Short term is still Battery territory. By electrolyzing urea, we can save vast amounts of electricity and urea is the worlds largest waste product . Urea uses 1/3 the voltage that normal water electoral is ation uses so it’s 300% less electricity to make the same amount of hydrogen. According to Robert Murray Smith on his KZfaq podcasts.

kzfaq.infovzAXuYwxDMM?si=8ujUgBzVdQiEetc3

Thanks to both of you for this very interesting and educational conversation. 🙂👍

Oil refinery electricity use: When I was a teenager, in the 1970's, a representative of ICI came to our grammar school to recruit people into their industry. He came from one of those refineries in the Immingham area. His favourite brag, intended to emphasise the size of the refinery, was about how much electricity the refinery was using. He pointed out that that one refinery used slightly more electricity than the City of Coventry, and smiled. I wasn't impressed, even back then. Then Flixborough happened about a year later. We heard the two loudest explosions from Cleethorpes, about 22 miles away from the disaster, as the crow flies. I saw the wreckage some weeks later. It was horrendous. Since then, we've had at least one other major refinery disaster in England. It's very doubtful that he would retain his job after making that kind of claim today.

'Green' Hydrogen, produced by electrolysis, is a process which can never be more than about 66% efficient. Using it in a fuel cell is also no better than 66% efficient. So, ignoring the preceding electricity generation losses, at best, the efficiency of those two steps alone is (0.66 x 0.66) = 43.56%. On top of that, you have to factor in the energy required to liquefy it, compress it, transport it from factory to point of sale, maintain the cryogenic conditions needed for its storage and account for leakage. And Hydrogen has such small molecules that it leaks through almost any container walls, pipes and valves. Once it's in a vehicle (for example) and has been used in the fuel cell, the electricity is stored in a battery and then discharged from the battery. Those processes might be 90% efficient, giving water to useable electric power efficiency of (0.4356 x 0.9) = 39%, ignoring the cooling, transport, pressurisation and leakage losses. After that, you have to think about losses between electricity and motion in the vehicle. The net result is that overall efficiency, from electricity to H₂ to electricity to work done, is around 25% efficiency, if all goes well. This is almost no better than the inefficiency of burning Diesel fuel in a CI engine and moving the vehicle, under otherwise ideal conditions. So, yes, there is a need for some form of combustible fuel, for the present, especially if it is essential to fly from place to place, or to fly rockets carrying satellites into LEO. But in many cases it's far more efficient to generate electricity, transport it by wire to a vehicle, store it in a battery and then move the vehicle. The overall efficiency is still not stellar, being up to about 75%. But that gives three times the amount of useful work done for the energy input, compared to using 'Green' Hydrogen. Now, how 'green' is it in reality? Honest answers are appreciated greatly.

There is also a huge opportunity around Britain for generating electricity from wave and tidal power, if only people would invest in it properly. We have some of the biggest tidal ranges in Europe, and almost all of our West coast faces the Atlantic. I met Sir Christophe Cockerell in the 1970's and had the chance to ask him about wave power. He's best remembered for inventing the hovercraft, but his real interest back then was in the Cockerell Raft, which generated electricity directly from sea and lake surface waves. But back then he was encountering apathy from our governments and from industry. He was ahead of his time, I guess, as was Stephen Salter with his Duck, also known as the Edinburgh Duck or the Nodding Duck. There was some university interest for both projects, but apart from some small scale prototypes, nothing came of either idea. Others designed hydroelectric projects using tidal flow and tidal reservoirs, to generate constant flows of electricity. At least one prototype was made in the Netherlands, but again, nothing became of it. Then there is the tidal generator in Scotland which you featured in Fully Charged. That was working very well. But why don't we have more projects like that one? Sure, there are technological challenges, but they can be overcome. After all, challenges have been met with Solar, Wind, Reservoir Hydro, Oil, Gas and Coal, which were arguably greater challenges than those faced by wave and tidal power. If price is the problem, then most of those costs will be reduced tremendously by the economies of scale. Just look at how the cost of Solar and Wind power has reduced over the years.

I have not listened to this podcast. When I see hydrogen in the title I look to see what the comments are. Robert drove an electric artic truck a few days ago which was battery powered. The latest London buses with a 400 mile range are totally electric and should demonstrate that electric is the future for buses and other large vehicles. Even if Elon's electric Semis are only 80% as good as he says, that would give those a 400 mile range. It is said they can achieve 500 miles and in the UK, you would be doing well to drive more than 450 miles in one day. Therefore, electric vehicles are going to win through and hydrogen will just be a total waste of money and a total distraction in the vehicles industry. Maybe there will be some exceptional cases but 99+% of vehicles will one day be electric. Robert should know this unless his memory has been destroyed.

Just for the record, Rob, Middlesbrough is so-called because it is in the middle of the U.K. from North to South. So 'the North' really begins to the North of Middlesbrough, and 'the South' really begins to the South of that location.

In Madrid they have a rideshare available on an app the smaller sibling the SO2 and it is a joy to go around such a huge city with it. Myself weighting 100KG plus the wife around 80Kg both taller than 6feet and still feels nippy enough to ride with confidence. Definitely a must try if anybody plans to go to Madrid soon

I’ve been looking for the right heat pump technology for over a year now…..this still isn’t it. Notice how the interview skipped over the questions of pipework and radiators….my home was built in 2002 and has microbore cable everywhere. Every heat pump survey I’ve had has said all the pipework and all the radiators needed to be upgraded, also my hot water cylinder needs to be replaced as it isn’t big enough for a 4 bedroom home. So the £500 figure suddenly turns into a £10,000 figure, especially if you want to hide all the replaced pipework and that means taking ceilings down, re plastering and redecorating the whole home…..But of course they will just stick a pump in without doing all that stuff and then the hone won’t be anything like as efficient….or warm. I’m getting the Heat Geeks in to do a proper survey….and waiting to see how Hybrid heat pumps develop before moving anywhere.

I don't believe that the Avocado is better than beef from the other side of the road. In beef production they add also CO2 for soybean production and hauling. But a UK cattle only gets UK gras and UK water. Everything else is already to expensive. Don't believe statics except you turned the numbers yourself

I have air to air heat pumps in my house (x3), I personally think they are way superior to air to water. Cheaper, quieter more efficient and no need for radiators or a water tank. Granted they dont heat my water, I still use a gas boiler for that (at the moment)but I use less than half a cubic meter of gas a day. What my air to air does do is reduce the humidity, filter the air and cool in the summer. The running costs are easily covered by my pv system so I have zero costs for my electric. On rainy days (so at the moment thats most days) my washing can be quickly dried indoors with no condensation or cost. Total cost for my 3 bed house for the system £6k (excl the solar). My neighbours say they cant tell if my system is running either on heat or cool. Helps enormously with my wifes hay-fever.

I'd ask you all to avoid falling into the trap of engaging in polarized politics, as this is a slippery slope into the trap of fascism, which is disrupting our ability to work together for the greater good of society. I ask honestly if any of you sincerely think the divisive political language of the last few years has done anything to progress society? I'd suggest not- and that rather than making progress in several areas where the public seem to be pushing, our governments have done little more than distract the wider public and hinder research and development in these areas, all the while favouring grossly wasteful R&D in unproven technologies like particle physics and fusion energy.

Hydrogen is great solution for big transport and transfer like trains, ships, .... Keep up with great work bringing us new inventions from green technology 😊❤❤❤

Hi IPleeeeesssee Robert shut up every so often and let the guest tell us interesting stuff. I got so annoyed I didn't finish listening to this episode

Yasmin talked about heat usage being important. Why do you! waste all the heat created from nuclear plants. Must be massive.

IMHO: Toyota are dissembling. Hydrogen (for passenger cars) is their red herring which is designed to fail and enable them to continue with ICE cars, or so they imagine. A**h*les.

80%+ of forest destruction (carbon sinks) is to grow food to feed livestock, not humans directly. There is far more cattle than wild animals and humans combined (in kg), so something to consider in the fertilizer argument as well.

So true! I have lots of friends interested in EVs for some time, only to buy one within weeks of their first test EV drive. Everything Electric is such an inspirational organisation, "driven" by an amazing team.

Fascinating guest. I like how she is so pragmatic. Energy production is not black and white or green and blue for that matter. It's a complicated subject that the world will eventually have to take a more realistic look at.

An interesting topic but not explained. You’ve interviewed Michael Liebreich and his Hydrogen Ladder - it would have been good to ask her to comment.

I like Robert but got 38 minutes in and was so frustrated with the load of waffle that Robert went on with instead of just to asking simple questions. This interview could have been 10 minutes long. What about writing the questions down and just asking them. If this was an assignment handed in at university it would have got 2 out of 10 because it was so bloody long winded.

I had a survey done by Octopus with a view to getting a heat pump. My house is a standard 3 bed semi, built around 1916, but is well insulated, has an A energy rating, and was deemed a suitable candidate. They reported that the radiators would need to be upgraded (which was expected and fine), but there wasn’t enough clearance for the heat pump at the side of the house (1.6m vs the required 1.8m) and the airing cupboard was too small to receive a suitable water tank. Given those facts, Octopus declined to proceed. My point being that if my, well appointed and insulated house of reasonably generous proportions is deemed not suitable, then until there are more pumps and water tanks compatible with existing housing stock, the rollout isn’t going to get very far.

A great chat and it was a pleasure being at Everrything Electric North and seeing Yasmin talk and give her views.

Apparently most didn’t listen to the full episode. Numerous times they both said if it can be electrified it should be and green hydrogen would be used in short term until it could be electrified.

Oh dear Robert you said that Labour are going to ban meat. You do realise that it will be front page news in the Daily Mail tomorrow.

23:25 aargh. I'm out. If you don't even know the comparative round-trip efficiencies of hydrogen vs batteries etc then you aren't qualified to discuss this

20:35 err wrong. There are new processes (granted yet to be commercialised) for producing cement that are carbon negative. And it was discussed on this channel within the last month from memory.

Bobby, I know you wanted to be polite but you can still gently push back on ignorance and false information. You know better given your two previous (much better) video interviews with experts on hydrogen. This is just a fossil fuel shill doing the usual magical thinking/misdirection to try to keep a terrible industry alive.

Nuclear energy will take over. Fossil energy is OK with me, the gas of life, CO2 has made our Planet greener.😊

For an energy specialist not to immediately be able to quote the average efficiency percentages for ICE is somewhat concerning.

Ludicrous to suggest that bringing virgin forest biomass from Canada could be a good idea as against trucking it from Scotland! How does she think the stuff in Canada gets to the dock side in Canada? Scottish biomass is all from specifically cultivated trees that are currently ready for cropping and replacement ... thus completing the carbon cycle (I see it all happening from my sitting room window). Yes, it's a long term carbon balancing act when we really need quicker solutions but if we are going to use biomass at all let's keep it home grown.

They are deluded if they think c02 is a problem.

Some of the wood from Canada is from old forests and not plantations created for harvesting - not great!

Maybe the EveryThing Electric Show would investigate the Swedes burning iron powder to heat home furnaces than recycling the iron oxide residue (known as rust) back into iron, to be burned again, and again. All non polluting activities. Then consider up-sizing the Swedes iron powder burning furnace concept by converting an existing UK coal powder burning furnace to iron powder burning which then will drive an electric steam generator once again while not polluting the atmosphere. Why then stop “ burning stuff ”, if non- polluting ? So with iron powder as a renewable fuel source used in this way, the UK can restart those mothballed, and maligned UK coal power plants to power the UK Electric Economy ! Oh note that the iron is mined just once before recycling the burnt iron to iron oxide locally back to iron powder near to the electric generation plant over, and over for reuse of the same iron. The iron, to fire the furnace the first time, is abundant. Available World wide. Google the text line "ESA-Burning Iron" "under Science and Exploration". There is a straightforward article that is genuine from a well known, and respected science based European Government Agency with many thoughtful "experts" with the most important skill to have, that being "expertise". When there at the ESA site, please take a monument to click on both the "Details" & "Related" tabs to read more. Then Google "The Metal Powder Industries Federation" & include in your text the title "Making Metal Powder". "The first step in the overall powder metallurgy (PM) process is making metal powders. There are four main processes used in powder production: solid-state reduction, atomization, electrolysis, and chemical." Hope this helps you explore this concept. These articles should help to know more. Also many Google Patent searches on this topic bring up thoughtful ideas being explored of how to best commercialize, and move forward to powering our World with abundant electricity.

A few thoughts, and I plead total ignorance here, so be gentle with me... 1) We manufacture Hydrogen from water. Can't use sea water. Where does the water come from? Rivers and lakes. So does that mean fuel rationing during a drought? 2) We then transport the hydrogen to places where it can be used in vehicles. 3) The 'only' tailpipe emission is water. Great. 4) So, we have traffic jams full of vehicles dripping water onto the road - perpetually wet roads? 5) The water is absorbed into, under, next to the road. Great for plants. Some evaporates into the air and magically finds it's way back to the river/lake it came from and not into the ocean where it can't be re-used to make more hydrogen? 6) Humidity in heavily trafficked areas is higher due to the evaporating water. 7) In colder climates the water hits the ground and pretty much stays there. While I understand that there is research into extracting Hydrogen from Sea Water, right now, not a thing. A few cars running on hydrogen, yeah, great. Pretty much all of them dumping water onto the roads after the hydrogen has been extracted from water from somewhere else... I'm seeing problems.

Ah Robert....cheese....have to tell you my digestion has never felt better since i gave up dairy. Had to do it to get better from an awful food poisoning episode which went on for a month until a young doc said stop drinking Complan, its got dairy in it and your body can't tolerate it after being stripped out by those horrid bugs. Got better within twenty four hours and continued to avoid it. I've lost a couple of stone, gone from XXL to M clothes. Everything dairy can be replaced by perfectly palatable, in fact delicious alternatives. There are even specialust vegan cheese makers which just about quench that craving. I'd be interested to do a blind tasting actually, reckon it would be hard to tell for some of them. In the interests of honesty i had begun to think about not having a glass of wine with dinner every day and after a month without i didn't resume that either so might have had some impact. This was four and a half years ago btw and I'm still slim, its amazing. 👍

seeing is judging, faith is strong trust what is hoped aligning to what is not yet seen. God sees you.

31:10 Aaannd... there it is. Green Power Purchase agreements. This, ladies and gentlemen is a boondoggle. They rely on government subsidies and connecting to the grid (which is not yet 100% renewable, and won't be for a few decades) to buy valuable electricity to make their "green" hydrogen incredibly inefficiently, store it inefficiently, transport it inefficiently, and later use it inefficiently. There is one scenario where green hydrogen can be made, and one scenario only. That's where electrolysis equipment is installed next to renewable electricity generation *and* only runs when there is an excess production that cannot be sent to the grid. Generate your H₂ during those hours only and you're green. Everything else is a murky grey. But you won't want to do that because it's so expensive to install and run these electrolyser stations that to make them anywhere closer to profitable you'll want them running 24/7, again using partially dirty grid power.

The most salient points missed. Transport of hydrogen, cost of compressing the lightest gas in the universe. Cost of containment, fugitive emissions cost per Kwh from production to use verses any other fuel source. An hour of fluff lacking real information. Sorry missed opertunity.

I've just got stuck on the production of ammonia for fertilizers... "because we have to have fertilizers to feed everyone". Yes we do because we abuse the soil, we cannot carry on doing that. There are crops which should be grown in rotation which naturally replenish the soil but that means we have a whole field not growing something for food this season. However that's the way we should manage the soil and it can be done, it's amazing actually it's been done since we stopped chasing animals for food. In fact if those animals are grazed on some of the fields in rotation fertilization happens naturally and we don't have to put up with the smell of slurry poured onto the fields that's been swept out of horrible indoor sheds where the poor things get reared. I don't believe that we must have fertilizers because there's "so many people to feed" anyway. We "must have fertilizers" because big producers don't want to reduce their profits by a tiny fraction while the soil replenishes itself naturally. I think it's perfectly possible to feed everyone using proper farming methods which don't kill the soil and which therefore have long term benefits. The thing that isn't possible is to provide vast amounts of "out of season" products to people who want everything "now"; what isn't possible is the over production of crops so that everyone can have the perfect shape potato. Along with all the other changes we have to make in the hopes of having a planet still fit to live on in ten years time, our faming methods will have to change because no matter how much fertilizer we keep putting on the soil we are rapidly running out of any that's remotely healthy! So there's a topic for discussion! Robert style rant over, I felt your brain fog and recognised it only too well! How shocking to realise that there are now mature, grown, wise people who cannot remember the smokey underground trains. Really brings you up sharp that when you haven't got kids to watch growing up! Excellent discussion, now to have a look for Yasmin's book.👍

Use green hydrogen for industrial applications. Use it to make steel, where it removes oxygen and impurities (11% of global CO2). Use it to produce cement (~8%). Use it to replace fossil fuels in making fertilizer (~2.4%). Use it to replace hydrogen from fossil fuels to refine petroleum (4-6%)... On a global level, those add up to more than all the CO2 emissions from all forms of transportation combined (~21%), of which less than half is passenger road vehicles... But we need significant regular excess renewable elecricity for green hydrogen to make sense.

Fertiliser is simply animal manure. 🤦‍♀️ we don’t NEED artificial chemical fertiliser!

The issue with EVs is much more to do with range issues than battery life.

Glad to see EE trying to include H2 industry, and Robert keeping the rants out of the conversation. However, I feel there were some points left uncountered. I wonder how this would've gone with Imogen?

😮 Is that the. 1,000,000. U Tube, I see on your wall, The. Highlander

I like her bright pretty and clever.Lovely women.

It is also worth noting some datacenters running the internet use an obscene amount of water for cooling as well. Also, they prefer not to disclose the amounts for that either...and in some instances I remember reading or hearing are not very popular with the local population.

Hydrogen is the promising Energy source of the future, AND always will be ! Hydrogen embrittlement of all materials it touches, necessitating Hydrogen system containment material replacement at a astronomical high cost, and creating continual greenhouse gas penalty to by having to replace those embrittled components by needing to again mine, transport, manufacturer assemble, distribute, remove failed Hydrogen system, replace again, and again Hydrogen system components, dispose of the embrittlement failed system components, recycle failed components. A single metal weld can embrittle in as little as 24 hours to leak Hydrogen because Hydrogen atoms are the tiniest known, easy to embed into materials when Hydrogen is kept under high pressure, and containing materials atoms nearly not vibrating when frozen, causing Hydrogen leaks. All storage or transport material replacement actions, and efforts listed here require CO2 producing emissions. How is that helpful to make a less polluted atmospheric environment? Hydrogen is set in the number one position on the elemental chart for a reason. It’s the smallest atom ! This can be visually explained to illogical, but emotionally tuned thinking Green’s always found living in Utopia World, not the Realistic World that this Hydrogen atom is the smallest in size able to leak or make molecular changes to containment materials. Yes it’s the Green’s hated logic on full display to be ignored by the willing to be, easily duped, shallow thinker, emotionally driven, light on logic Green Crowd type who hear about Hydrogen,then with little thought, or research move to “see problem solved”, and slap your hands in a most confident rubbing motion to rewardingly feel good that “no more Hydrocarbons being burnt”. “That was Easy….See” !. I feel so satisfied as I virtue signal my clueless nature for all to see. Mabey go read the fairytale about the emperor who wore no clothes.Same depth of thought wishing for the satisfaction of immediate reward centers of the brain while gullible as on full display here. Ever wonder why shallow thinking Green’s never solve a problem curving emissions? Well it is because most talk instead of do. Then the doers have to stop to write long essays like this one to explain the massive hurdles to stop burning hydrocarbons as an energy source. Now back to living in the La La Land called Utopia. Okay for them, the Green’s, here are the basics to move through the inactive atrophic neural brain’s web logic first pathways, Hydrogen is a smaller atom than every storage material is made of. Essay to understand, right? When the smallest atom Hydrogen is placed in Hydrogen containment systems Hydrogen changes the containment system molecular structural integrity quickly degrading the containment system at a molecular level. Hydrogen systems then leak. There is no leak fix. Hydrogen Leaks happen. So….Hydrogen is released. Hydrogen molecules then bond in the Earth's atmosphere to create unwanted polluting agents. Yeah Hydrogen gas under high pressure placed in a pipe or storage tank made of any material transporting Hydrogen, is the future, a bleak future of continual numerous Hydrogen leaks, Hydrogen fires, and Hydrogen Explosions. Does this KZfaq channel do any “what if deployed into the World” research before gaslighting its viewers with the next geewhiz green solution to Hydrocarbons like foolishing proposing a workable Hydrogen gas transported Economy built out everywhere around us made from any other larger atom material known to humankind as shown on the elemental chart for Hydrogen to leak through? Please, please if the editors here wish to really do investigative journalism, go look at an elemental chart. Also look for EASY TO FIND reference of Hydrogen’s difficulty to store. To start, go investigate easy to find information explaining why Hydrogen powered rockets over so many decades had to scrub a launch, sometimes over, and over, and over because of a detected Hydrogen leak located in the Hydrogen fueling system Well EveryThing Electric Show all that can be said once again about green solutions offered up, like this time - Hydrogen moved distances in a transportation system to a end user is…Duh ! Such nonsense being spewed here, once again. Maybe the EveryThing Electric Show would investigate the Swedes burning iron powder to heat home furnaces than recycling the iron oxide residue (known as rust) back into iron, to be burned again, and again. All non polluting activities. Then consider up-sizing the Swedes iron powder burning furnace concept by converting an existing UK coal powder burning furnace to iron powder burning which then will drive an electric steam generator once again while not polluting the atmosphere. Why then stop “ burning stuff ”, if non- polluting ? So with iron powder as a renewable fuel source used in this way, the UK can restart those mothballed, and maligned UK coal power plants to power the UK Electric Economy ! Oh note that the iron is mined just once before recycling the burnt iron to iron oxide locally back to iron powder near to the electric generation plant over, and over for reuse of the same iron. The iron, to fire the furnace the first time, is abundant. Available World wide.

She seems to have a blinkered knowledge...not her fault she should watch fully charged