Texan here and same for me.

Agreed

What's a hig?

Same. I didn't need the long range. 6.8 offers more power given equal barrel length generally.

Great comment

No doubt...Theres really no appreciable difference within reasonable hunting distances with 6.8 SPCII or 6.5 Grendel... meaning neither is optimal for killing deer at 400 yards. Out to about 400 with the right sight up, it's feasible but still not as ideal as a real rifle round. Sure shooting paper and steel the 6.5 Grendel will get a bit less of a wind call... at the distance that becomes relevant neither have enough energy nor enough speed to get reliable performance out of a hunting bullet and ethically take large game. Bad breath distance to 300 yard hunting cartridge alllll day, extend that to 400 if you' know what you're doing and the conditions are right.

@@EMTOLLIS kzfaq.info/get/bejne/js91q8J7tqnKkps.html Confirms your statements about the range limits of 6.5 Grendel. For hunting, they are nearly identical.

I like my 12" Grendel a lot. When I run the numbers, I just don't see the advantage to 12" 6.8 over it. 12" Grendel, my actual chronographed results: 90gr TNT 2700fps 120gr Federal 2400fps 16" Grendel 100gr Nosler BT 2675fps 123gr A-MAX 2456fps 123gr Scenar 2450fps

Im getting an ar chambered in 6.8spc today and im ecstatic to get out and take some shots

🤭😴

My son took his first deer with our 6.8 Spc.

I took my first big game with my 6.8spc 150+ lbs black bear ran maybe 30 yards 1 shot went through its collar bone exited by its hip. Novice mistakes were made. I ran up on the dying bear while it lay in a gully shot again blew up the heart. Both shots were 2 inches from each other criss crossing. 50 yards first shot, 10-15 yards second. ( i should have let it be. Less than 2 min between shots

I built an AR for this caliber when the hype waves first started for home defense and hunting whitetails. I made a mistake on the build by picking the absolute longest barrel I could find hoping to ring ever bit of accuracy out of this cartridge that I could which made my build extremely heavy. But it is crazy accurate. I love the cartridge. I handload Barnes bullets and have never had an animal go more then 10 - 20 yards after the shot. My teenage son loves the fact that the recoil is so little. I may build a new lighter upper in the future.

That guy is a grendel fan. It’s funny how grendel fans speak on 6.8 from the SAMMI side of things and speak on the Grendel specs from a 24” barrel. Cut the Grendel barrel back to a 16” then spec on the specs and see if it’s still 2500 FPS and 1818 FPE. I do have both the 6.8 and the 6.5 but if you’re going to make it fair someone do a chrono with similar weight bullets

Thank you - they danced all around this in their discussion.

@Chano Leyva your correct about the 90 grain bullets have shitty bc's but the 6.8 can shoot up to 140 grain bullets. The hornady 110 hpbt has a BC of .36 which is the same as the mk262 round for 5.56. From a 20 inch barrel you can push the 110 at 2750 which is also the same the mk262. So you have a 110 grain bullet and a 77 grain bullet going the same speed with the same BC, drop and drift is about the same but the 6.8 has much more energy down range.

@@Dfleuryoutdoors You can push 2700 regularly from 16" with 110gr, I've seen up to 2750 for 110gr in 6.8 SPC. I get 2600 from just factory SAAMI spec 110gr OTM (Hornady) in my 16". I had some SPC II spec 110gr Accubond loaded by Druid Hill I got 2660 FPS from my 16" barrel. I have a relative that pushes over 2650 FPS from 120gr MKZ from his 20" ARP 6.8 barrel.

Absolutely they were talking about reintroducing the caliber. I wish it would be reintroduced with the new specs.

That’s exactly why I chose the 6.8 spc last year. I love the versatility of it…. I have recently begone to reload for it, and I’m itching to test my reloads.

Agree. It’s one of my favorite rifles

Echoing this point. Hunt hogs with it in Texas and works every time. Good size cartridge that fits in an AR15 platform and does what I want it to do. Nothing more, nothing less. I'm keeping it.

This talk makes me want one again. I have seen the ammo in Bass pro often and saw it in Academy Sports on Friday. I just might build one now.....hmmmm.

6.8 SPC over a .308 for the size and weight advantage, I imagine?

@@j.r.6271 yes. And sub 400 yards a good 6.8spc load is very close to some .308 ballistics Less recoil Way lighter gun and ammo Overall I just like it way better

"400 yard combat cartridge" Something to be appreciated there, for sure.

Optimized for a 14.5" or shorter!

A 6.5grendel with 12in barrel can shoot 1000yds. Buy 6.5 over 6.8spc.

@@djl5634 there's alot wrong with this statement. The grendel cannot burnt powder efficiently unless in a 24". what makes you believe that a 12" grendel can do 1000 yds with half the barrel? the 6.8 is designed for the AR platform 10" and longer, the grendel is designed for a 24" bolt.

@@djl5634 correct 6.5 grendel 12in to 13in fantastic

He said the .277 Wolverine! I haven't heard about that cartridge in forever. I don't actually know much about it.

Only difference is chamber dimensions. Cartridge specs didn't change so the best remedy is to load your own to get the rounds a bit hotter

Yep! Big fail for the boys!

The difference in chamber spec is 0.030 free bore. When wester powder tested both on the same rig there was a 1500psi difference in pressure and less than 30fps difference in velocity. Its pretty unlikely that even a good shooter would ever notice this under 300 yards. If you are handloading there is very little difference.

@@timothybayliss6680 There is also an error in the SAAMI print, the numbers don't add up and most of the reamers ended up with a 78 degree leade angle, even though the print says 45 degrees. It was bad enough it was stripping copper from some bullets making the problem worse with each successive shot.

But who handloads for busting hogs?

I Handload.for every Caliber except 7.62x39 because Aks aren't really accurate enough to nit shoot steel Russian junk.

I agree. I have killed 2 pigs at over 250 yards at night with my FLIR scope 1 with the 120 SST and 1 with a 100gr Accubond. 1 at 220 during the day with a 95 gr TTSX. Probably another 40 plus hogs..lol amateur compared to our hog hunting folks down in the Southern USA and 1 whitetail deer. Most were killed with the 120 SST and I think it is a great bullet .I just picked up some 105 and 120 gr Cavity Back MKZ bullets. I have tried the 105s at the range and they shot great. I will be giving them a go shortly at the range again and in early Feb will kill some pigs with them:) The 6.8 really shines when handloaded.

@@billmartin5709 Have you hunted with those MKZ ammo yet? What do you think? I just ordered some 120 gr. projectiles to reload. They didn’t have the 105 gr. in stock, but I’d like to get a few boxes once they are restocked.

Remington killed their own creation.

Ar performance barrels have a specific chamber designs to get as much as you can out the 6.8spc. ARP 16in barrel will be almost the same performance as a bison armory 20 in barrel

From my understanding they made an accident when submitting the specs with free bore and it took some very dedicated individuals to fix it to the Spec II chamber, which I load an average of 150-200 fps faster than the factory equiv. If they changed the Sammy NOW and started loading Spec II ammo... (Druid Hills loads spec II) this would take off in droves. Please give me a light weight bolt gun!

Agree I have 2 for hogs in TX!

They kick ass suppressed.

The issue with the gen 2 spec was also what I wanted to point out. I was an early adopter and got rid of mine when the gen 2 came out and pursued a 300blk.

@@propnut7085 they also changed the common twist also. I had a ARP 18 inch barrel with 5r 12.5 twist If I remember correctly. It was a shooter and a very fast barrel. I am confident it would smoke a grendel out to 300 or so.

My reload dies are for the 6.8x43 but I load fir my SPCI.

More powder behind the bullet. Idk what people don’t get about that

And powder I energy. Some people caliber snobs. I have had a.6.8 for about 15 years and a 300 BO that I have a night scope that I shoot suppressed and subsonic. They both are different calibers that were created do different things.

Ex SF here and when my younger brothers wanted a knock down round, as you say, the 6.8 has that "Special Purpose" for its interchangeability with the AR Platform. Good choice for my old eyes. I got one as soon as I could. Love it. Only 200 yards is my sweet spot. Great Performer. When Lake City makes the improved SPC II, I can just go to my favorite machinist and gunsmith to re-bore the chamber. I do believe it will be more speed and knockdown power. Just my Humble opinion.

Right, but what's the point when the Grendel does both?

Yeh, too many people hung up on B.C. which means very little 0 - 300 yards. The 6.8 is still carrying around 1,000# of energy at 250 yards, which is good enough for deer size game.

@@ravissary79 because with high bc bullets the grendel is getting 2300-2500 fps depending on barrel length, not exactly what I'd call flat shooting.

@@papajohnsy6659 yeah but you can load lighter bullets and the performance is almost the same. And they both have more than enough velocity to get the job done at short range. Their trajectories aren't different enough at medium ranges with similar weight bullets for the 6.8 to gain any significant advantage. Add more range and the Grendel outstrips it. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it's a bad round. It's not. It certainly feeds better, and it seems slightly better suited to the m4 style weapon.

The 6.8 is better than the grendel.... as a military cartridge. It feeds better and shoots way better out of a 16 inch barrel. Most hunters are used to a longer barrel and have no problem carrying the extra barrel they need to get the grendel going. And with equal barrel lengths and bullet weights, the 6.8 has a tiny edge on speed, but not enough to win any arguments.

What we need is actual SPC II spec (aka the originally Murray spec) ammo commercially. Everything on the market aside from Druid Hill is SAAMI spec at 55k psi. SPC II is kind of like 5.56 NATO, 58k~60k psi. Handloads typically load to those specs and net around 100 FPS more than SAAMI spec commercial loads. Even with standard pressures, it still substantially outperforms 5.56 at all ranges one would expect to use 5.56. I own both 5.56 and 6.8 uppers, 5.56 for training, 6.8 for duty.

@@thelion70x79 Chris Murray had at least 3 different chambers. 1 was for best accuracy, another for max speed, another for reliability/slop. There were several different people with their mitts in the kitchen asking for different things. Army and Navy elements within SOCOM wanted a DM rifle with better energy on-target and better hit probability from a Special Purpose Rifle. Other units within the same communities wanted something similar to 7.62x39 energy from CQB carbines based on the M4 receiver/frame. The most influential community of customers though were civilians looking for a standardized, industry-supported factory cartridge that stepped-up the AR-15 as a legitimate medium game hunting solution, especially in States that didn't allow .224 centerfire bores. That's where 6.8 SPC really took off. What they didn't see coming around the corner was 6.5 Grendel, which was designed to kill medium game and serve as a long range target cartridge from the AR-15 receiver set. The two immediately ended up in a competition on the civilian side, with lots of back and forth that made 9mm vs .45 look like a friendly picnic. JSOC evaluated 6.8 SPC and rejected it. Proponents of 6.8 burned a lot of bridges on Bragg, the FBI Ballistics Lab, and UK MoD, as well as Remington (who took it to SAAMI). 6.5 Grendel was very quietly evaluated by certain elements, USASOC, NAVSPECWAR, USMC Sniper Instructors, and they unanimously all loved it in-place of where they had been using SR-25s/Mk.11s/M110s. Hornady took all that feedback and basically mimicked 6mm AR (6mm Grendel) with 6mm ARC. For the civilian market, the biggest vectors for 6.5 Grendel's dominance over the 6.8 SPC were 1. a trouble-free SAAMI process done by Hornady and 2. the 7 years of work laying down the technical specs back and forth with Barnaul for steel case production. Once steel case got turned on, that sold a lot of rifles, uppers, barrels/bolts/mags, and ammo. Before the Rona, there were at least 94 factory 6.5 Grendel loads on the market.

U some kind of expert

@@jwalls1125 He's doing pretty good. 😄

The truth is that no reamer maker worth their salt would cut a reamer with the kinds of errors claimed (80° transition from the mouth to the freebore). If a reamer maker sees that print, SAAMI or not, they will contact the customer and say, "Something's off with the step from the mouth into the freebore. I think we should do a more common angle there to prevent any jacket shearing as the bullet is handed off from the neck into the freebore." Customer's engineering staff would look at the print and say, "You know what. You're right. That angle doesn't make any sense, and can only cause problems really, especially toward end of reamer life." There were at least 3 different chamber designs that Chris Murray had made reamers for when he was at AMU. 1 for accuracy in 18" SPR type rifles. 1 for speed in 14.5" and 16" guns, and 1 for slop/reliability. There was a meeting with Remington engineers and DoD reps, including senior weapons guys from NAVSPECWAR, who weren't impressed with the initial velocity numbers from 14.5". At this meeting, the Navy folks said, "Can you get the 115gr to 2900fps?" Remington engineers without even doing some napkin math said, "Yes, we can do that for you." It was just poorly-managed with nobody taking ownership of it from the start. The initial development guys who fixated on .277" bore really missed the boat there, should have gone .257". They ignored and insulated from all the available ARDEC data and then burned bridges at AMU. Went to SHOT Show saying, "....there's a new secret cartridge SOCOM is adopting, don't tell anyone. By the way, there's this other cartridge called 6.5 Grendel that's utter trash. Stay away from it." They then burned bridges at Bragg with SF and another Army SOF unit, who independently acquired and tested 6.8s to early destruction/failure, weren't interested. Guys had to literally be escorted off post after not taking NO for an answer. Then they flew to the UK, went to MoD under false pretenses of official coordination and told MoD, "USSOCOM and now USMC are moving to 6.8x43 NATO. You had better start tooling-up if you don't want to be left behind." FBI ballistics lab banned them by cartridge affiliation explicitly, after they pulled tips off the 95gr V-MAX and tried to submit it as an Open Tip Match round. The whole push for military adoption was an absolute clown show, worthy of film. The other companies in the private sector like ArmaLite, Hornady, Nosler, Sellier & Bellott, Wilson Combat, LWRC, Stag Arms, Bushmaster, etc. kept it growing with good options for hunters. The whole attack on the industry and the SAAMI spec really undercut its legitimacy, while promoting tiny shops who could never produce sufficient volume for the broad market. Western Powders ran tests with a SAAMI chamber and "SPC II" chamber from a 24" barrel, only saw 19fps difference and minimal chamber pressure variance. SPC II proponents cried foul, variables weren't to their liking. It's an example of what happens when zealous and incompetent people build enough momentum to push an idea, and get enough well-meaning people behind it. The opportunity was timely due to the confluence of AWB expiring, GWOT kicking off, and proliferation of the AR-15 with tons of people wishing they could hunt with it, or have more energy on-target without having to step up to the unwieldy AR-10. They bungled it with bore diameter, amateur marketing and promotion to DoD, and undercut their own standardization process for the civilian industry. It's not a bad cartridge, just had bad parents who gave it too fat of a head at birth, then watched it pass from their broken home into multiple foster care residences as it grew up.

@@LRRPFco52 Again, a lot of fantastic claims and assertions, and really cool stories. I don't know how to argue any of your "facts". 24" SPC II with only a 19fps gain? 115gr at 2900fps? So much missing information. All I can do out of civility and respect is take you at face value on your experience and disregard any information on ballistics and performance that deviates from my personal experience and knowledge unless there are verifiable data to support it.

@@samthai818 You didn't see the email response from Western Powders on 6.8forums, where their ballistician ran their test breech with 6.8 SPC SAAMI, then reamed it with a SPC II reamer, ran the tests again with the same loads. The most he saw was 30fps difference, 19fps avg. It was pretty well-circulated. Yeah, you're not getting 2900fps with a 115gr from 14.5", 16", or 18" even in a 6.8 SPC. That was the point. Remington was excited and didn't push back with real numbers and limits at that meeting. ~30gr cases don't push 115gr to 2900fps. SEALs aren't ballistics experts. They just asked if Remington could up the performance. Remington should have told them 2550fps was probably pushing it already, which would have jeopardized Navy interest, so they just told them they could do it. This is coming from people who were at that meeting, not internet hearsay.

@@Chester_Oliver ???? What makes you think that? The 6.8 SPC has considerably more energy inside 300 yards, so when it comes to hunting medium-sized game, the 6.8 is better. I will grant that the 5.56 is cheaper and has less recoil for target shooting, varmint hunting and plinking, though.

The Vortex Nation Bottom Ten Cartridges, the worst ones ever designed? Contrasted by the Top 10 Cartridges. Broken up into eras of development perhaps? Like up to end of WW2, end of Cold War, and Present Day.

Agreed.

Didn't Ryan say that he didn't like the 7mm Rem Mag in the 7mm-08 video or am I imagining things?

I was just going to say the same thing. It would be fun to see some of these talks on cartridges that were doomed by design.

When firearms are literally your life there’s probably not too many you don’t think are cool

.280, .350…

Remington has sucked at rolling out much of anything for years. I hope the new management hires some quality control.

@Chano Leyva how..?

@Chano Leyva 6.8 has way more energy up close and out to 500yds and has a bigger frontal area. Straight from Hornadys website. .223 - 20 inch barrel and 62gr FMJ at 3050fps ( the most the standard twist .223 can handle ) 500yd drop ; 340 ftlb 500yd energy ; 49.7 inches 6.8spc 120gr SST at 2460 from a 16 inch barrel, could easily add another 100fps for a 20 incher. 500yd energy ; 619ftlb 500yd drop ; 64.1 inches Not sure which planet 340 is higher than 619ftlbs and would cause more damage. Sure the 5.56 has less drop still. 6.8 was never designed as a long range cartridge though. Even the 73gr eldm from a .223 has 519ftlbs at 500yds, 6.8 still wins..

@Chano Leyva sure it retains energy better but it takes out to 600 yards.. which is past the 5.56 effective range anyway lol. Even the 100gr GMX from a 16inch barrel has more energy at 500 yards than the 73gr ELDM from the .223. Seems like the 6.8 beats the .223 out to 500 yards easily with any offering, only the heavy match projectiles in the .223 get close but you can’t even use them in most 5.56’s anyway because they eat up powder capacity and the twist rate is too slow.. The 90gr Speer at 3000fps still has 419ftlbs at 500yds which beats the standard 62gr from the .223 comfortably and has way more energy up close. Just not the ideal offering. If you want to compare the 90gr in the 6.8 why not compare it to the 40gr in 5.56? Not fair?

What velocities are you getting from the 8.5" and what bullets/loads/brass? 8.5" suppressed would be handy.

So it sounds like a reliable good shooting gun. Like many other manufacturers or hundreds of thousands of home built guns. I think LWRC makes great guns. But your 2 last sentences sound like an ad for LWRC :)

@@billmartin5709 I have built 6.8s and bought them and if that’s the cartridge you want to run I see no other option than LWRC!

The 6.8's timing was perfect really. The small group of guys who latched onto it and were taking it to Remington, FBI, USMC, UK MoD, and Fort Bragg really did it a disservice because they were in over their heads/professional skill sets. It really should have been .257" bore, not .277". That would have satisfied CQBR, DMR, and hunting ARs alike with a vastly-superior projectile weight class that ranged from 60-120gr. Could have put the SR-25s to bed and made the SPR a 1000yd+ capable light semi auto system, and SBRs punching outside of their class with .500 BC OTMs topped with the emerging LPVO scopes. That was the missed opportunity. Murray and Holland were offered decades of RDT&E from ARDEC dating back to the pig studies and 6mm Lee Navy (conducted before .276 Pedersen), but they insulated themselves from extremely competent people at AMU (the AMU Commander at the time was one of them), and settled on .277" bore based on flawed assumptions. The next best bore diameter for that case would have been .264"/6.5mn, followed by 6mm, but .257" was really the optimum place.

I have an RRA Coyote Carbine. One of the older ones that came with the Ace Skelton stock with a hogue pistol grip. It’s crazy accurate! Kills deer and pigs wonderfully.

I have the original MODEL1 SALES that shoots 130 grain interlocks very accurately.

Mines awesome!!!

I did the same thing. If I remember correctly white oak makes their barrels 1-11 twist with the spc11 chamber. I load 95gr Barnes ttsx for it at a bit under 2800fps and does a good job on coyotes and deer.

I own both and love both of them, there is quite a bit of overlap in their performance but there are areas where one is better than the other especially to a handloader. The 6.8 is a little better out of shorter barrels at intermediate ranges, the Grendel is better at longer ranges, if I could only have one though it would be the Grendel and if I didn't build the 6.8 first I probably wouldn't have one, both open up a lot of opportunities for the AR15, and since I've had them my AR10 collects dust.

@@daviddorminey1434 I agree with that... I also dont really hate the 6.8spc it's all in good fun giving our brothers a hard time... LOL I do love the 6.8mm/270 family I have a 270WIN and a 270WSM but for some reason the 6.8spc never did anything for me... Even though I love my Grendel I just built a 6mm ARC and getting it dialed in. I'm pretty sure once do my ARC is gonna be my new favorite because I've never shot a gun chambered in anything that was as inherently accurate as it is. Take care brother!!!

7.62x39 is my personal favorite over 6.8 or 6.5

@@DanielBoone337 I'm really wanting a 6 ARC but I'm waiting on all of this ammo and components craziness to die down before I pull the trigger. I'm a little different in what I want with the 6 ARC because I'm wanting to load lighter bullets 80-100 gr for coyotes and maybe deer, I'm thinking in a 90 grain bullet I can get close to 250 Savage ballistics.

@@daviddorminey1434 I deer and coyote hunt with my 6.5 Grendel also and either use a clip on thermal or swap optics back and forth when I hunt hogs at night... My rifle really loves the 100gr Nosler Ballistic Tips but the coyotes hate it and I can crank the velocity up on them. I also shoot the 100gr and 120gr Barnes TTSX's for deer and hogs. I haven't hunted with my ARC yet but once I figure out what it likes I definitely will be. We have a horrible hog problem down here in SW Louisiana and that's why I almost exclusively hunt with a gas gun because if I'm out deer hunting and hogs show up I can send a lot of bullets down range much faster then a bolt gun... I've been out of my TTSX's all year but I like a bullet that holds together and retains as much weight as possible when deer and hog hunting but I didnt want to jump up to the 129gr Nosler Accubonds LR so I picked up a few hundred of the 120gr Speer Gold Dots luckily my gun loves them (I really haven't found anything my Proof barrel doesn't love yet) but I have them cranked up to 2575fps and I've shot a bunch of hogs coyotes and I've shot 5 of my 6 deer allowed a year 1 of which was the biggest deer I've ever killed in Louisiana. They've all either been a bang flop or found them piled up about 20 yards away. I've already ordered a few hundred more of those bullets because the performance is so good even at a distance of 250 yards and they're not very expensive... I'm not sure if they make 6mm Gold Dots but if they do they're definitely going to be tried by me... I would say start piecing stuff together for the 6 Arc and just look for deals along the way because I dont see things slowing down as far as prices or things being hard to find any time soon and the 6 ARC is 100% worth it brother!!!

I've been shooting 6.5 Grendel since 2009. I have a 23" heavy bull fluted Lilja pipe/Seekins billet set, 18" LaRue Stealth 2.0, 18" AA fluted, 17.6" Lilja lightweight, 16.5" Lilja lightweight, 12" Faxon 5REE pistol build, had a 16" AA SOCOM profile barrel build originally that I gave to my brother. I have large moving boxes full of spent brass that are all 1-5x fired. I've also built many 16", 18", and 20" uppers for people and tested them for accuracy/reliability. Guess how many bolts I have broken? None I have broken 5.56 bolts in tortuous high volume CQM sessions where you can smell the metal cooking way beyond normal chamber heat. Bolt issues just haven't been a thing for me, though I know they have happened to some people on rare occasion. It's more common with 7.62x39.

@@LRRPFco52 I play in the street all the time and have never been ran over. I have ridden a motorcycle for 20 years and have never crashed. The bolts are weaker by design than the Remington design.

@@Fredmullegun Chamber pressure is less. It's more of a story of metallurgy, heat treating, and processes with appropriate SAAMI MAP. Find a better analogy that accounts for 5.56 bolts I've broken. I don't see how the playing in the street or riding motorcycles crosses over to this, since both of those are inherently unsafe, whereas shooting 6.5 Grendel at the volumes I do is not, and I shoot it a lot.

Amen! I also have both and they do what they were made for and they both do it very well from the AR-15 platform!!!