11,000 hr Skid Steer Isn't Dead Yet... Needs a Final Drive Face Seal

Рет қаралды 136,275

Жыл бұрын

Replacing a final drive face seal on a tired old Case IH 440CT Skid Steer
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Пікірлер: 236

@DrokiHazan Жыл бұрын

Another day of Rich and Kevin poking around around inside a gearbox that a manufacturer doesn't want them poking around in. Good day.

@CloudHindlen Жыл бұрын

I wish everyone maintained their equipment like this guy. Would make buying a used piece of equipment so much more worth it.

@TurdJesus Жыл бұрын

Even basic oil or brake changes. I just do it for friends and it’s crazy how much people don’t know about taking care of their own car

@tclott316 Жыл бұрын

@@TurdJesus the look on peoples faces when you tell them to look in the manual. It’s like I just died and came back to life. They have no idea

@kevinbarry71 Жыл бұрын

The irony is; he maintains it so well and he doesn't sell it

@bfisk89 Жыл бұрын

We’re out there

@tuckercudmore7945 Жыл бұрын

@@kevinbarry71 or when he does sell it its because it has had a major failure or so many parts are worn out its not worth buying.

@kennyquad Жыл бұрын

When reinstalling the large snap ring use some mig welding wire in the holes of the snap ring. Twist the wire until you have enough tension to install then cut the wire off.

@Modlendingen Жыл бұрын

Always nice to see Kevin fix things, and thinking about saving money rather than saving the amount of work :)

@dmarting6014 Жыл бұрын

Kevin and Rich reminds me of the kind of guys that makes any job fun. The worst jobs with a good coworker always turn out to be the best.

@mrkrvn61 Жыл бұрын

I'm a mechanic for a case dealership and I love these videos. I follow along at home with etim and the parts catalog. The 9350 transmission rebuild was enlightening. Most technicians I work with aren't as friendly as these guys and learning from them through these videos have been a huge help in my development as a meck-a-nik. Thanks guys.

@FoolOfATuque Жыл бұрын

Milwaukee obviously needs to get you one of their fantastic grease guns.

@BurchellAtTheWharf Жыл бұрын

Dealer: Yeah I got to get skid steer here , Me: what kinda rig is it, and how many hours on it Dealer: *slaps the roof In this Case there's all of the hours

@cheeseymccheese7249 Жыл бұрын

Those bearings are tapered, you can take up the play in them if they are loose. If its not high speed you can get away with using them over and over by just screwing the nut on a bit more. Case or the manufacturer of the after market guys will have a pre load chart and what it should run at .005 or something with the feeler gauge. Love your videos Rich

@caveone-365 Жыл бұрын

Always love a video with Rich and Kevin in it!!!! They're always great for some HILARIOUS content! More of this stuff please!!!! Thank you as always for sharing bro!!!👍👍✌💪😎

@tallguy8452 Жыл бұрын

I agree, these guys are so much fun to watch!

@Studio23Media Жыл бұрын

Definitely agree. The videos with both of them are my favorite. They crack me up, especially when they're giving each other crap 😂

@dilauroj94 2 ай бұрын

Hey Rich and Kevin. I know this is kind of late but here goes. I’m not picking, just trying to help. While it’s not impossible to build one of these on the machine, it’s not ideal. On a table allows you to bring the housings together evenly, then you can use the nut to pull them together. The torque on that nut is very important. You were right in hitting it to seat the bearings. Usually you torque, hit the nut, torque, hit the nut and repeat until it doesn’t loosen up anymore. Obviously if the bearings loosen up, the seal loosens up and leaks. The biggest thing I wanted to mention was lubricating o-ring on the face seal. That o-ring is supposed to stay still in the housing. When you put oil on it, it allows it to spin in the housing. We used baby powder to get them in at first. Everything has to be perfectly clean and dry. Then the baby powder acted as a lubricant. Later on, we found that denatured alcohol worked even better. Everything still has to be perfectly clean, but no baby powder to clean up. The machined surface of the face seal needs to be perfectly clean with a lint free towel, and a thin film of gear oil applied to the surface. Anyways, great videos. I just wanted to point that out.

@Thecrazyvaclav Жыл бұрын

Lol at don’t get this oil on your hands they’ll smell for a week, next shot, both of them barehanded pulling the hub apart

@ATK111 Жыл бұрын

I operate heavy equipment for a living for the last 20 years. I’ve seen skid steers pushing 20 000 hours. It’s not the motor that gets tired first. At 6000-8000 hours all the pins and bushings are worn out and she’s sloppy as can be.

@OzarksWildman Жыл бұрын

Hey!! This year I haven’t rebuilt my Powerstroke….yet.

@CarsTrucksWhatever Жыл бұрын

There's still time

@jesperwall839 Жыл бұрын

I laughed a little bit when you tried to use that snap ring tool on that gigantic snap ring 😂 I have the exact same tool, and I had big problems using it on a 50mm snap ring 🤣

@gavinkeller183 Жыл бұрын

I did too on bobcat. That’s why I bought the big boy set Makes cake work of them big snap rings

@Ag_n_Mech Жыл бұрын

I could be wrong since it’s been a few years since I’ve done one of these but I believe those seal o rings are supposed to be installed lubricated with isopropyl alcohol and free of oil because they are the spring that holds the two machined surfaces together

@aaronsfarm Жыл бұрын

Alcohol or talc powder is what most manufacturers recommend.

@David-xl8zf Жыл бұрын

They forgot that tensioning a belt puts a static directional load on bearings, that´s why they went out basically every two weeks.

@tonyruland3714 Жыл бұрын

Love it when the Snap ring flies off!

@1973GLH Жыл бұрын

The experience of one of you is amazing. Put you both together..

@quadbilly2106 Жыл бұрын

From my experience. When installing use the o rings seals to apply pressure against the seal face. Use wide dull flat screw driver and roll the oring into place to hold the seal bust the way it will want to urnravel will actually keep pressure on seal to help keep dirt out.

@malcolmyoung7866 Жыл бұрын

Great to see Kevin again.. although it usually means he’s ‘broken’ something!!’

@dannys2561 Жыл бұрын

"marine grade, Oh we got a boat" Lololol

@claytondaniel8119 Жыл бұрын

I bought a Ditch Witch and it has your favorite engine the Deutz air cooled.

@cliffh8486 Жыл бұрын

I solod a ton of those things when they were new. I am glad to see they still run strong.

@Jerroh6 Жыл бұрын

I always enjoy these type videos. I like seeing how things are put together plus I never know when the information will come in handy but it usually does.

@andyworks5428 Жыл бұрын

In the industrial world we call those mechanical seals. Typically used in centrifugal pumps. They work good there, and they're also made from ceramics not steel. I wouldn't think they would last long in a construction vehicle, but maybe the steel works good for that. Great video!

@Burnsidef250 Жыл бұрын

CAT uses them on all their final drives. Replaced one on my 85C a little over a year ago. Made it 10k hours before it started leaking!

@ianthompson2802 Жыл бұрын

@@Burnsidef250 really bobcats new hubs only last 2500 mix before they are trashed but I've been seeing alot of hubs from a company that runs their equipment real hard

@Burnsidef250 Жыл бұрын

@@ianthompson2802 Doesn't surprise me. Skid loaders see much more hard use in poorer conditions than tractors

@jamiewolgemuth3450 Жыл бұрын

Might consider a brass punch to drive those races. Less chance of dings and burrs. Love the enthusiasm and willingness to tackle anything. You guys are a hoot together.

@mkalb4g63 Жыл бұрын

Brass has a chance of chipping. I use an aluminum dowel on softer parts, but for bearings it’s a chunk of steel rod. I agree it is not recommended to hit hardened steel with hardened steel.

@marksaunders2500 Жыл бұрын

Hi from uk Rich 👋 👍 thoroughly enjoyed watching this and I bet you enjoyed watching it too 🤣🤣 Kevin did a great job and made it look easy 👌 thanks for your time be safe and see you soon 👍 👋

@minnesotatomcat Жыл бұрын

I worked at a case assembly plant for 6 1/2 years and after seeing how absolutely piss poor the management and quality control is I would never buy anything made by case. They were great about coming up with a horrible design and then standing behind it for a decade before resolving any problems.

@ianthompson2802 Жыл бұрын

My dad did food service for case and john deere case had what seemed like an inch of dirt on their assembly line. John deeres assembly line you could eat off of

@minnesotatomcat Жыл бұрын

@@ianthompson2802 yes I can vouch for that as well. The plant I worked at was a constant disaster all but 2 days out of the year when we would get audited and they’d make us stop building machines and clean for a whole day

@gavinkeller183 Жыл бұрын

Great job guys. I keep a piece of 2.5” round stock raise skid steer and use the drive controls to roll the bar on the idler then just pry over. Let the machine do the hard work.

@seananderson7794 Жыл бұрын

Great vid!! I've changed a few on 20 ton excavators and have witnessed the O ring split and also the steel cracked in three pieces causing the leak! Also wire, bake twine and drier hose get between the steels and cause a leak one day and not leak the next day! 👍🖐🙂🇨🇦

@videosforfun5558 Жыл бұрын

Kevin is a hard working guy !

@thebigfellacole3757 Жыл бұрын

My grandpas got a 1965 skid steer, not sure if it’s bobcat or what, but the odometer stopped after it rolled over the 6th time and that was 20 years ago. It’s about as bare bones as it gets but it’ll still tear up concrete and outwork a crew of 10 guys.

@johnkranz4004 Жыл бұрын

Very good job Very interesting about the pins holding the nut locked

@brettwalkom948 Жыл бұрын

I might be wrong but every duo cone seal I've ever put in the oring is meant to be dry on assembly..

@Burnsidef250 Жыл бұрын

Some floor-dry really helps when moving tracks around on the floor!

@kuakkacam Жыл бұрын

Nice work on the Case boys. Just like new. I had a thought while watching this one. We use a fair amount of those mechanical seals in aviation. Usually in turbine engines for sealing bearing areas. Slightly different as ours are usually a magnetic carbon seal. One edge, highly machined tolerance like yours and the other a magnetic carbon ring that uses oil as a lubricant and barrier. I cringed when you took the machined seal apart. That snap you hear when they go back together can damage the surfaces and allow debris between the two surfaces and will also shorten the life of those seals. If you can avoid it, I highly recommend you leave them together as "one" piece. They will always have a finite life but they are exceptionally good at what they do. Just my opinion, but food for thought I suppose.

@Dmbyers2002 Жыл бұрын

We always install toric seal orings dry, not oiled. The idea is that the oring rolls instead of slipping when the two faces press against each other and that creates the preload against the faces. I’m not sure how dry they really stay once the case if filled with oil but that’s the theory.

@camarocruser69 Жыл бұрын

So when I do duo-cone seals I always use glass cleaner to lubricant the big O-ring to help install it because I think in the book it wants those O-rings to be installed dry. It would help the to stay in place.

@templebull Жыл бұрын

I found that squeezing big internal snap rings together in a press or vice and putting mechanics wire through the holes to hold it together, then drop it in and cut the wire works well if you don’t have big enough snap ring pliers works well

@Zzus321 Жыл бұрын

I drove a bobcat when I was a kid foot and hand controls what a blast

@Darkrif1957 Жыл бұрын

the seal is called a duo cone 2 highly polished surfaces ,used alot by Cat in wheel seals for there machines

@floydwilliams3321 Жыл бұрын

Wow I work on skid steers from time to time and I’ve never seen a final drive that was that over engineered Good job man

@bfisk89 Жыл бұрын

That snap ring synced up with the music “snap” was 🤌🏼 Good edit

@Eremon1 Жыл бұрын

After having put the tracks back on a Bobcat about 15 times now, I don't know why it never occurred to me to use a widow maker jack on the track. I don't operate one anymore so I guess it doesn't matter.

@Sugarkryptonite Жыл бұрын

440CT...good machine. We had a Case TV380 that we bought new to us from a dealership. After getting it, we proceeded to do some maintenance on it, including the final drive oil. The first side was good, second side, pulled the drain plug, no oil in it. No idea how long it had been ran without oil. Tried getting the dealership to take the cost of it, which never happened. Ended up having to fix it ourselves. The bearings were worn a bit due to lack of oil...we needed the machine and couldn't wait for parts so ended up turning the races down a bit on the lathe to tighten them up. Had put a new seal in it and thing never leaked a drop after that and worked the few years we had it. Then the ECU went out on it to the tune of $6k. Would never buy another all electronic machine again. These 440CT's were the last of the cummins mechanical skid steers they made...best ones to get IMO.

@bensymington5550 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video great content

@gregweber8951 Жыл бұрын

From working on heavy construction equipment for 4 plus years and as a basic hydraulic mechanic on helicopters, I would freeze the rubber gaskets and use grease for the o-ring seals, for seals you always want to lubricate with a thicker substance, that can mix with the oil or fluid in what ever your sealing and the filter system can take the thicker material out if it’s an issue for the hydraulic pump or fluid, consistent oil filter changes will help with seals leaking and pressure washing can help remove debris and keep it from creating friction points making seals fail prematurely

@gregweber8951 Жыл бұрын

Much love Rich and AA Ron!

@evanknight3629 Жыл бұрын

Not talking shit but I am curious how can external debris cause friction points or leaking unless you are talking about the unit being covered in debris therefore reducing its cooling capacity

@gregweber8951 Жыл бұрын

@@evanknight3629 because the dust will work into the o-rings and even if it is on the outside of the seal as the o-ring/seal rotates it will grind it’s way in like 1500 grit sand paper and create the failure from the outside in, and on top of that with out frequent fluid changes, the oil can’t lubricant the seals enough and with that fine dust in there it wears out the seals prematurely.

@evanknight3629 Жыл бұрын

@@gregweber8951 makes sense appreciate the explanation

@nathanlaumer7480 Жыл бұрын

Used to do these on the cat 140 H graders all the time they can be a pain but actually work well

@advanceddiesel7766 Жыл бұрын

we use ether to install many of those type seals. seems to work best for us

@danf4616 Жыл бұрын

Always interesting and impressive how difficult and expensive it is to repair these machines. Glad I don't have to! 😎

@matthewgray3375 Жыл бұрын

Awesome video, 👍

@laser69beam Жыл бұрын

Ah perfect start to an afternoon ;)

@tomcleghorn4005 Жыл бұрын

Fun times!!! Love the channel

@kerryminigringo Жыл бұрын

Love a bit of Kev content,that man is a mine of info and love the interaction.

@alaskannarwhal4283 Жыл бұрын

So on a duo cone seal like that the reason it's leaking is because you shouldn't put any oil on the toric (o-ring). The ring is meant to roll up the ramps of the seal ring and the housing which puts positive pressure on the metal sealing ring. If the toric is lubed they like to slide and then that will make the seal face go crooked and loose oil. The proper way (from caterpillar who designed this type of seal) is to use isopropyl alcohol to lube the toric during assembly and then dry off completely, check that the metal ring is parallel to the top of the component side ramp (usually about 11-11.5 mm), then lube the face and assemble the component. These are also very susceptible to contamination during assembly (even lint) but when assembled properly they will often outlast the component without leaking

@dharmi44 Жыл бұрын

after seeing how complex the final drive assemble is, and also taking into consideration the cost factor of all those components, I'm going with a wheeled skid steer.

@tevsil1 Жыл бұрын

Yeah then you get to deal with a chaincase neither are fun lol

@kevinbialkowski3694 Жыл бұрын

My mans got that "every punch" You know, that punch you use for all of it.

@johnhamilton9229 Жыл бұрын

New to your channel and enjoying the skills.

@SuperSecretSquirell Жыл бұрын

At least you can take those apart with hand tools. I work for a CAT dealer and our require special fixturing and being torqued to almost 3,000 ft-lbs. I added up all of the tooling once to see if I could get the store to buy it all and it was over 30 grand. The one store that does have the tooling says that a vast majority get torn up beyond rebuilding when trying to disassemble them with the correct tooling.

@skstibi Жыл бұрын

12:50 I have a tool for that! Spent two hours cutting and bending steel but they've been my favorite snap ring pliers, only flaw is they only work on the huge ones lol

@seamuspillsbury866 Жыл бұрын

Just a drop of gear oil goes a long way on the face of the seal rings. I was always taught to wirewheel and get any contamination away from the toric seal lands on the housing as well, even a tiny amount of contamination on the face of the metal can make them leak prematurely, and NEVER let any oil get onto the O-ring during installation.

@skonky Жыл бұрын

you don’t lubricate the oring? i was always told you should lubricate an oring during installation any reason why you don’t here?

@michaelzimmerman9225 Жыл бұрын

I used a locking vise grip. with the ends ground to point to remove the snap ring. those case skidsteer of that vintage last forever. If the don't catch fire and burn.

@clarkbourgeois7661 Жыл бұрын

Rich - "There's only one way to find out!"

@troyheinrich606 Жыл бұрын

Ordered two new o-rings for seal from motion industries, cost me $40.00 and time. reused mechanical seals and bearings. done this five times total now on both sides of my Gehl CTL80. good to go, like you said have to catch it before it runs dry.

@alphonsotate2982 Жыл бұрын

Wow that was hard and heavy glad I got a smaller rubber tire machine.

@mechmike9113 Жыл бұрын

Truck and Ag mechanic here. That must be a good mic on that camera, my ears started ringing and my dog left the room when you were knocking the drive sprocket off lol

@tonyruland3714 Жыл бұрын

At my old shop, I would make everyone put their initializes for any new mark's on the shop floor! On big ones, with the dates!

@turbolife5912 Жыл бұрын

Dowel pins need the centre pulled but then you're able to remove them then you turn

@megape95 Жыл бұрын

Dont put oil on the o rings of the seal! Only on the grinded surfaces. Had to turn one back apart at night shift because it had torn the o ring apart.( my fault oiling it) Put the bearings at preload so you can turn it just a smidge tighter then without pre load. 30 t Excavator drives almost dont turn anymore by hand, when you got the preload right.

@megape95 Жыл бұрын

I think i heard the drive coupler between the engine and pump ratteling too when kevin turned it off

@ianthompson2802 Жыл бұрын

@@megape95 yeah I heard it too

@ianthompson2802 Жыл бұрын

BTW what brand do you work on I'm a bobcat and doosan eventually guy rn

@megape95 Жыл бұрын

@@ianthompson2802 many brands. Usually hitachi, takeuchi, newholland. But they all use branded components so everything is the same in most cases

@larrytomb3896 Жыл бұрын

These are know as DUO cone seals put one in the hub held by the O ring put the other side in the machines housing then tightening the bearing will seat the seal then remove the hub again then set preload

@nosebeersforbreakfast 10 ай бұрын

i just had to do one of these on a 445 the correct torque on that nut according to case is 2875 ft lbs

@anomamos9095 Жыл бұрын

There’s a Teflon based gear oil additive that I use to extend the life of diffs gearboxes and their seals. It will even stop minor leaks.

@Studio23Media Жыл бұрын

Sounds like snake oil

@anomamos9095 Жыл бұрын

@@Studio23Media no gear oil.

@Studio23Media Жыл бұрын

@@anomamos9095 Teflon is not an effective oil additive. Dupont even says this publicly and have refused sales to companies in the past who were putting Teflon in oil and lube products, making claims that Dupont says are dubious. Teflon does not stick to metal on its own, it must be suspended in oil. And the Teflon starts to break down around the same time as the oil. It's snake oil

@anomamos9095 Жыл бұрын

@@Studio23Media Nasa have done tests on it where they proved that it doesn't provide any benefit to wear and may actually shorten the life of some components under certain conditions. BUT It is still excellent at stopping leaks The additive I use has other components in it for wear the teflon is for the seals.

@stihltech206 Жыл бұрын

I find it easier to put the track back on by placing it on the rear wheel and drive wheel first, then stretching over the nose wheel.

@fabs3771 Жыл бұрын

Kevin is a very cool guy 😬👍🏻 Great Video

@cokeboy4208 Жыл бұрын

This guy def needs his own channel

@somethingabouttractors241 Жыл бұрын

I hope I don't need to take one of those apart, but if I do need to I know how to now.

@hokie9910 Жыл бұрын

Man I see so many farmers in the US get caught up in buying new equipment every 5-6 years for tax purposes. I dont buy it. I’d rather pay more in taxes every so often and more in maintenance than have huge payments to John Deere forever, etc…forever. Good on you guys showing people that quality equipment should last a generation!

@adrianspeeder Жыл бұрын

Time is money.

@nissd21 Жыл бұрын

This is what real mechanics do . Understand to job as needed and complete the job . We don't all work in a lab ...

@foxracing01100 Жыл бұрын

I believe i have a service manual. On that machine. I know its for a 430 but i think it covers the 440ct. I know im obviously very late and this job has been done for weeks now lol

@stevemcrichards8768 Жыл бұрын

Suggestion: why not use grease and just pack the roller bearings like you would a CV axle which would hold the bearings together. Just a thought. Might work.

@jkontons6340 Жыл бұрын

Grab a dirt bike hour meter. That’s what I did when I had a hr meter stop working and they wanted over 100 dollars for a new one

@camarocruser69 Жыл бұрын

My favorite way to do skidsteer tracks is to get it off the ground, throw a bucket of oil in the seat and tie a rope to the control stick. Then treat it like a bicycle chain.

@craigmandall9420 Жыл бұрын

Kevin is such a handy dude

@kymw7833 Жыл бұрын

You guys are funny and educational that's what's needed in training courses most instructors I've ever had at trade school are as boring as bat Shit I would have paid attention if they were fun like you guys ,as always Rich you and Kevin very informative and a good laugh ,break something soon so we can all enjoy a laugh while you fix it .Oh and safe to say your channel isn't sponsored by Case spare parts !!!hahaha Cheers Kym Adelaide

@ianthompson2802 Жыл бұрын

The only day we didn't laugh at trade school was when we found out an instructor lost a buddy in Afghanistan during the fall of Kabul. Next day we were back to joking

@ericdavi1231 Жыл бұрын

That's one hell of a snap ring!! and I thought the one that holds the hub on the front axle of a 4x4 F350 was a big one.

@Redsfanatic32 Жыл бұрын

Your mouth would drop if you saw the snap ring inside a GM 6L80

@ericdavi1231 Жыл бұрын

@@Redsfanatic32 I broke two pairs of snap ring pliers from northern trying to open it. I had to order heavy duty ones online that I’ll probably never use again.

@Jacob-qz2mo Жыл бұрын

Never oil the Torric ring ! isopropyl alcohol only, can get away with brake cleaner.

@skonky Жыл бұрын

how come? got my curiousity

@Jacob-qz2mo Жыл бұрын

@@skonky can cause it to spin in the housing, need to install with a product that will keep everything dry

@shanestickland2745 Жыл бұрын

Light coating of oil on the mating surfaces and alcohol on the torque ring. Put each half in its housing and then assemble. If the seal will not stay on the housing, the ridge on the housing is worn.

@mcbarber5108 Жыл бұрын

Whew! I was having Deboss withdrawals.

@nunyabusiness4651 Жыл бұрын

"Kind of like a Power stroke thing but if you keep up on tthe maintenance nothing goes wrong but part of the Maintenance is you rebuild it every year" I know right! LMFAO!!

@daniel-mt9ni Жыл бұрын

You are not supposed to oil up the o-ring. Install it dry or with brake cleaner or window cleaner. Something that dries up

@huey4203 Жыл бұрын

Not sure you know or not but they make big snap rig pliers for transmissions also seen dude make their own also with big pieces of steel ground down the points and bolted together

@cheesynuts4291 Жыл бұрын

I still can’t understand why I’d rather watch a couple guys fix something when I have a pile of shit to fix myself….. life’s mystery’s.

@jamesdetrick258 Жыл бұрын

The glorious life of a owner operator!

@overbuiltautomotive1299 Жыл бұрын

bobcat s300 has 8,100 hours 7,777 of which was in a scrap metal yard .engine has not been rebuilt still runs ok not great but not bad nether starts very easy

@DonVDBorgh Жыл бұрын

Can you rest the hour counter or would you need to buy a new "dash" unit? You made that look easy 👍👍

@Joelontugs 11 ай бұрын

Case was literally like we don’t need to put over 10 thousand hours on the hour meter no way they last that long lmao

@andersskog7589 Жыл бұрын

Keep the orings on the seals absolutely bone dry! And put one half in at a time. They wont come out if the oring is dry! Also they cant turn if the rings slightly rust together if the machine is sitting a while.

@rhydianedwards3457 Жыл бұрын

"If you need to get your skid steer track back on, apply many solid whacks with the back of an axe"

@gunshipproduct2 Жыл бұрын

Deboss! I gotta ask you since you and your friend here have seen equipment, which skid steer or tracked skid steer do you like? (I guess I should ask which one is the most like your GMs, easier to work on, parts are a little cheaper, etc.)