120 mm APFSDS-T Vs T72B Turret NERA Armor

Рет қаралды 136,607

2 жыл бұрын

This video presents the 120 mm M829 APFSDS-T penetrating the Soviet T72B tank turret armor.Te different penetration positions against turret NERA Armour are considered and compared in the analysis.
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Пікірлер: 199

@76456 2 жыл бұрын

Would be cool if you could model the kontack 5, and see, all the angles in particular the one at 60° from the center

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Sure ! If you more inputs please share with us, thanks !

@wiciovs 2 жыл бұрын

kontakt, not kontack, natoschwein

@kollok3740 2 жыл бұрын

nope， Because all K5 has been stolen by Russian officers

@76456 2 жыл бұрын

@@kollok3740 you must be funny at partys

@user-zo4ce3nk9s 2 жыл бұрын

In general, all tanks of the USSR and Russia, starting with the T-64, are equipped with additional protection. Starting with "contact-1", "contact-5" and now the "relic" is being put on the T-72B3. The principle of operation is this, on top of the armor, they put additional containers with explosives and a movable plate, from a projectile hit, the explosive detonates and the movable plate shifts towards the projectile. This gives about 200-500mm of extra armor. it all depends on the angle of impact of the projectile and the type of projectile.

@chaosxassassin7 2 жыл бұрын

Contact 1 is mainly for chemical rounds though. Contact 5 has increased kinetic protection but is mainly to counter tow 2's. Which could defeat contact 1 with their tandem heads.

@leonleeoff2216 2 жыл бұрын

Doesnt work anyway

@elliotsmith102 2 жыл бұрын

Not 200-500mm extra against KE penetrators.

@user-zo4ce3nk9s 2 жыл бұрын

Yes it works. even the pin 1, in 1989 the US got the T-72B with the built pin-1. built-in in the case, the tower was without protection. fired at his M829 hull, and the M829 did not penetrate the frontal part of the hull. contact 1 worked. after the bops were modernized, in 1991 the M829a1 came out, to which the sharpening angle was changed. the bops gave fewer fragments after the passage of the upper plate and contact-1 did not feel it anymore.

@quantuman100 2 жыл бұрын

@@user-zo4ce3nk9s we have 6 weeks of data showing that these reactive Armour schemes aren't very effective as for singe examples, there are always many factors that can lead to certain results, but across large numbers these factors disapear

@UniverseUA 2 жыл бұрын

I love watching your videos! I have a video idea for you: in different simulations a plate of armor with the same thickness gets hit with a shell, but the plate is made of different metals such as: Pure iron Aluminium Titanium Tungsten Uranium I'd really appreciate it if you make a video like this!

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks for appreciation ! We will do that simulation soon !

@acr_master5594 2 жыл бұрын

it would be interesting to see what apfsds would do to a model of the uranium turret cheeks of the m1a2 abrams

@threndor3743 2 жыл бұрын

I would love to have concrete added to that list (simulate a knocked down building/structure). I know it will go a ways, but how far and how much damage goes through? Normal armor that gets penetrated adds the penetrated metal to the shrapnel that bounces around inside the tank, for instance.

@paullakowski2509 2 жыл бұрын

@@threndor3743 their are numerous papers on that topic in IJIE.

@TheOreoOverlord Жыл бұрын

@@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 ⁰z

@akriegguardsman 2 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to see the effects of a second hit in a similar position on composite armour after a failed penetration from the same round earlier

@user-gf3yh4pe7p Жыл бұрын

Заявленная стойкость башни Т72Б - 600мм на углах до 20 градусов, М829 столько не пробивает, М829А2 еще может быть 50 на 50, М829А3 точно пробьёт

@user-hr2yc6by6r 6 ай бұрын

Мультики они и есть мультики. Даже температура заряда влияет, да и контактом всё обмазано, там вообще казино)

@Artig627 3 ай бұрын

Заявленное пробитие М829 540 мм на 2 километра, если выстрелить ближе, то пробьёт

@marianzacharski5748 2 жыл бұрын

your best simulation yet :) good job

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Glad you think so!

@jackmoorehead2036 2 жыл бұрын

In that one last scenario, what would the shock damage be to the turret drive? That's a lot of kinetic energy being dumped on to a geared system.

@datpudding5338 Жыл бұрын

I'd imagine most of the impact is already spread by deformation. Maybe a simulation of this with the whole turret could tell us more

@Rusoria Жыл бұрын

I love these simulations. Check, what software do you use? Greetings and thanks!

@RoninTF2011 2 жыл бұрын

Lateral forces applied to the penetrator in the second simulation seem way to low. I'd check the parameters there...

@rakeshpatil3723 2 жыл бұрын

Best video, Clearly presented !

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you !

@alanch90 2 жыл бұрын

Well done, could you also simulate impact velocities at more common ranges like 1, 2, 3km?

@Dodo-ze5ep 2 жыл бұрын

The velocity doesn't differ that much...

@alanch90 2 жыл бұрын

@@Dodo-ze5ep at 2km the difference can be greater than 100 m/s

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks ! Okay will try to do separate simulation.

@rayotoxi1509 2 жыл бұрын

With kontakt 5 ERA over it now pls And i would like to see how 3bm42 mango would perform on the t72b3 frontal plate Tottaly not becuse ukraine and russia conflict might be about to escalate

@user-mt8rr3jk6q 2 жыл бұрын

It would be interesting with "Contact-5" ERA

@schutzanzug6731 Жыл бұрын

Can you do the same thing but with Relict 1 ERA?

@prezydentkucz9931 2 жыл бұрын

Could you compare your simulation to war thunder penetration testing? It would be something new on this channel, but i bet it would get you many new viewers :)

@aguilayserpiente Жыл бұрын

Does composite armor contain compressed liquidized quartz? How does it react to the AP dart?

@markandannettewalcheske5154 Жыл бұрын

would love to see the simulation of an M829 120mm, APFSDS-T on T72 latest generation tank.

@Angry-Lynx 2 жыл бұрын

that men of war music 😂

@tac_c0512 Жыл бұрын

As a former tank gunner... this channel is ABSOLUTELY terrifying

@kaidanalexander2840 Жыл бұрын

Yea cuz it shows that half the time armor doesn’t do shit against kinetic ammunition

@borisb1831 2 жыл бұрын

That's incorrect terminology, penetration is when a projectile enters the armor, perforation is when it enters the armor and exits as well.

@zainoo8298 Жыл бұрын

I don't think the apfsds would fully penetrate the armor of the t72b as russia uses t 72b3m instead which has kontakt-5/relikt

@jimbob3291 2 жыл бұрын

That shot trap at the end of the NERA pod gives me bad vibes. It only takes a longer dart to bounce it at a menial angle and then it's inside the turret.

@mando_dablord2646 Жыл бұрын

Based on the engineering of Soviet tanks, any penetration is potentially fatal because of the crew cab and ammo storage. Even with ERA, it's a flaw that can't be fixed, only covered up. Although it comes down if a military decides the protection solutions from the west are worth the increased price, or if they're even able to buy them in the first place.

@cynicalfox190 Жыл бұрын

“Any penetration is potentially fatal” thanks genius it’s not like that’s how it works for all armoured vehicles in the world. Of course APFSDS and HEAT don’t kill people if they aren’t in Soviet vehicle…

@mando_dablord2646 Жыл бұрын

@@cynicalfox190 Do you know of the engineering behind NATO tanks? Crew and ammo are designed to be as protected as possible, along with the fact that NATO propellant being designed to be less reactive to the point where DM53 is tested to not cook off when hit.

@cynicalfox190 Жыл бұрын

@@mando_dablord2646 I am fairly familiar with NATO tanks as I am with Soviet vehicles. Soviet vehicles are designed with the autoloader in the lowest part of the hull possible leading to it being very hard to hit ammo in the first place and if crews are even more worried about cook off’s they can only load the autoloader not the spare ammo. If that is done the T series tanks are more survivable that a Leopard 2 with its full load for example. Tanks generally get hit in the upper hull or turret, the NATO philosophy has been to make a seperate ammo rack in the turret with blow out doors and blast shields for protection. The Soviets went with not having the ammo up high in the first place to decrease the chance of ammo being hit in the first place rather than having to protect the crew in case of a cook off. Both philosophy’s work and NATO even dabbles in unprotected hull ammo with the Leopard 2 for example so obviously its perfectly fine when NATO also uses hull ammo stowage right? If we look at theatres where both nato and Soviet tanks are both operating we see that both get readily taken out by ATGM’s Syria for example with T series tanks and Leopard 2’s is an excellent example of this. Soviet tanks letting the turret fly away on ammunition detonation is probably of little concern to the crew who were already dead. Why is it that when the hull ammo of a leopard 2 detonates and cooks the crew is it not the same design flaw?

@mando_dablord2646 Жыл бұрын

@@cynicalfox190 NATO tanks are designed with the idea of being either hull down or a similar position to make the hull as little of a target as possible, so even before DM53 the propellant was in a protected position. Now with DM53 a cook off is nearly impossible and the crew compartment is the most protected position on each tank. Most kills on NATO tanks with a modern package are mobility kills where the engine is taken out. Russian tanks can also do hull down, it would be stupid to say they can't, but they weren't designed with that idea as their basis. The fact that the only protection the ammo has is that it's low in position isn't great given their already low silhouette. If a cook off does happen that's the destruction of the tank, not just needing to go for repairs. However, Soviet-Russian tanks are compact to a fault where they cram as much as they can into it. So that's why I say any spalling is potentially fatal for its interior. With Sabot, tandem warheads, and top attack missiles being able to negate tank defenses is enough. Which APS has always been something Russia has struggled with, which extends to the majority of their technical solutions. They understand the problem, but take the budget solutions because of the amount of shortcuts already taken. The fact that it took so long for the T-90M to get a laser warning system as a standard issue should be embarrassing. So everything beforehand didn't even know they were being targeted so they could reposition themselves or find/create cover. But I can give them the fact that they started armoring their carousels so it's not completely vulnerable.

@HerpDerpNV Жыл бұрын

@@cynicalfox190 your copium and butthurt is showing

@Fish-ub3wn 2 жыл бұрын

loved the game from which u have the music :)

@billytankcomander1233 2 жыл бұрын

can you do this again with era pliz

@Googlencraptubesuckabandonship 2 жыл бұрын

I always knew Warthunder was a joke. Thanks Gayjin.

@chickenchicken8097 5 ай бұрын

like ur life

@lucasboaventura100 8 ай бұрын

Mate, we need Leopard 1A5 L7A3 105mm DM33 and DM63 against T-72B1 Kontact1 Hull and Turret front and sides

@SuperIv7 2 жыл бұрын

Hmm... only the yellow scenario (#2) seems to be a realistic = front angle. However on reference images external armor at the point of contact near gun mask is ~2x thicker than the model, see blue area at 0:35. You'd need to increase model armor thickness in that area and/or move the point of impact upwards where angle of incidents would be 45deg instead of zero. Turret armor is obviously not designed to survive #1, basically a side shot, which would represent a mistake by defending tank's crew. #3 looks least realistic - the projectile would have to go through the gun first.

@bittemeinrammstein Жыл бұрын

Would really like to see this same test with Kontakt-5 or Relikt ERA.

@lilMungo Жыл бұрын

The m829 is is first 120mm apfsds for the m1a1 lol if yiu wanna do that we gotta use m929a3 or m829a4

@bittemeinrammstein Жыл бұрын

@@lilMungo Most common APFSDS is US service in M829A2. There is maybe some thousand A3 which is in service, but no A4 yet in active service, but selective examination yes.

@destrylett1619 2 жыл бұрын

Am I missing something the most likely angle the turret would get hit still wasn't strong enough to stop pen even once, was armor already outdated here?

@pcguy2 2 жыл бұрын

This is a modern DU dart vs cold war tank. The weapon is far superior to armor tech by 40+ years.

@JamesCZFEA 2 жыл бұрын

@@pcguy2 25 years, the first t72 entered production in 1969 and the m829 was in use by 1993.

@sistros84 2 жыл бұрын

@@JamesCZFEA @Adam Zhang The M829 was fielded in 1983, the T-72B NERA is soviet technology of early 80's. Have in mind that the simulation was made with the muzzle velocity, that was a point black hit. At 2km the m829 should have problems piercing that armor.

@sistros84 2 жыл бұрын

@@pcguy2 The M829 was fielded in 1983, the T-72B NERA is soviet technology of early 80's (both late cold war contemporaries). Have in mind that the simulation was made with the muzzle velocity, that was a point black hit. At 2km the m829 should have problems piercing that armor.

@paullakowski2509 2 жыл бұрын

THEIR IS NO ACCUMULATED YAW FACTORED IN.

@arwood111 3 күн бұрын

Seems those would be more effective if the plates angled up not down

@WhatTrigger 2 жыл бұрын

0:44 is it just me or seeing the turret inners like that kinda eerie?

@h.n.t.d7963 2 жыл бұрын

Wow i underestimate those skiny dart too much

@КайлБ Жыл бұрын

после того, как вы леопард а5 в башню пробили на этой считалке, о чем вообще можно говорить)

@akanoob2072 Жыл бұрын

Good test, but a thing to keep in mind is that T72 composite armor has to be coupled With ERA to be effective

@JsphCrrll Жыл бұрын

Against a 90mm fired from an m60 sure, but what about a 105mm fired from a m60?

@rajaydon1893 Жыл бұрын

@@JsphCrrll not even worth seeing, it ain't doing much

@dwwolf4636 Жыл бұрын

I was under the impression that the 45mm plate was a HHS equivalent.

@wawaweewa9159 Жыл бұрын

What if you fill the gaps with loose sand?

@markqqq_ 2 жыл бұрын

Great simulation

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Thank you !

@Slavkovic_Predrag 2 жыл бұрын

Is this abaqus or ansys ?

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

ANSYS !

@BBCRF 2 жыл бұрын

А закалку стали ты учитывал? И еще не указал слой со сталью БТК-1

@user-oe2qx7sm7s 2 жыл бұрын

Не хера он не учитовал, ни марки, ни твердость

@redpart 2 жыл бұрын

т72б бедолагу мучают. пытаются цифры своим боеприпасам накрутить, якобы наши танки слабы, забывая что и марки стали другие, да и башни уже на т90 катано-сварные

@deathdragon2283 2 жыл бұрын

@@user-oe2qx7sm7s it also completely ignores the yaw that would be imparted into the rod. You can see the rod stays on a perfectly straight path like it’s a laser.

@livewyr7227 Жыл бұрын

Why are we calling composite armor NERA? What's reactive about it?

@andrej5861 2 жыл бұрын

Do these simulations take into account any destabilizing effect of armor on long rod penetrators? I do not see any jawing motion on projectile as it passes through different layers of armor. I believe that one of main purposes of layered and composite armors is to destabilize penetrators. I have seen videos of bullets fired from rifles tumbling after hitting obstacles and going all over the place. Or is the interaction of forces significantly different (higher velocities, etc.)? Isn't it the case that the higher L/D ratio the more susceptible to destabilization is the penetrator? Thank you for your answer.

@Fulcrum683 2 жыл бұрын

Воо вот эт другое дело: выстрел отмеченный желтым цветом вот оно то самое от него практически ничего не остается... Хоть он и пробивает наполнитель... А поперек наполнителя конечно он его пробьет насквозь и вылетит с другой стороны башни.... Можете сделать ролик выстрел 3ВБМ-17 между маской пушки и триплексом мехвода М1А1?

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Please share more information on that ! thanks !

@TheInfamousMrFox 2 жыл бұрын

Except 3rd world ruSSia's tanks all stow poorly protected 2 stage ammunition in the crew cab, as we discovered in Iraq, and again in Syria, and again in Ukraine is that even the slightest penetration means hot fragments and sparks getting down into the ammo, cooking off the tank and barbecuing the crew.

@jondavidmcnabb 2 жыл бұрын

@@TheInfamousMrFox Truth!!! I have seen it first hand....

@saucy743 3 ай бұрын

To be honest, the performance of the Composite armour in the 2nd simulation was quite underwhelming.

@Mugonini Жыл бұрын

Видео согревающая американские сердца...

@Artig627 3 ай бұрын

На самом деле люди в США милитаризированы гораздо меньше чем в России

@the_burger 2 жыл бұрын

Fun

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Lot !

@maioralofknowledge2658 2 жыл бұрын

I have an array design of a top armor composite for frontal hull and turret made of armox steel, boron carbide, UHMWPE, aramid etc to simulate, can you do this? What kind of information do you need? Have email contact?

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Hi ! You can share it with us. Please refer our contact page for email address, thanks !

@Loubie2005 2 жыл бұрын

War Thunder needs to see this video

@mode4148 2 жыл бұрын

Wow

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Thanks !

@wfpnknw32 2 жыл бұрын

So the only situation where it stops it is where it would miss if the plates werent there haha

@vladimirvladimir1702 2 жыл бұрын

0:18 Velocity measurement is m/s not m/s^2

@diegotarses9460 Жыл бұрын

Imagine the M829A2, with will cross side by side the entire turret by the simulation results.

@vicentegomezalvarado3308 2 жыл бұрын

Resumen: Abrams M1A2= Die T-90= Die Leopard= Die Merkaba= Die Todos los tanques son destructibles

@dmitryogorodnikov699 Жыл бұрын

T-72B with unmounted ERA almost survive. So T-90, T-72B, T-80B with ERA Kontact-5 or Relict will survive.

@arpioisme 2 жыл бұрын

aren't NERA optimized for HEAT?

@paullakowski2509 2 жыл бұрын

THE MORE EXPLOSIVE INCLUDED IN THE COMPOSITE INTERLAYER , THE MORE THE PLATES BULGE AND BEHAVE LIKE FLYER PLATES.

@zeppkfw 2 жыл бұрын

Why not just run light tanks at this point?

@23GreyFox 2 жыл бұрын

0:50 where is the music from?

@RiccardoTheBeAst 2 жыл бұрын

men of war

@23GreyFox 2 жыл бұрын

@@RiccardoTheBeAst Assault squad 1 or 2? Can't find it.

@RiccardoTheBeAst 2 жыл бұрын

@@23GreyFox Mmh...... can't tell, i must admit.... i'm going to do some more research

@comrade607 2 жыл бұрын

Without era?

@extremeengineeringsimulati5627 2 жыл бұрын

Yes at present no ERA considered. We will includes it in future simulations

@Max_Da_G 2 жыл бұрын

As expected. Composite armor would typically do worse than homogenous armor against APFSDS. Simple matter of there being less material to penetrate. Composite armor is made to stop HEAT rounds more effectively.

@BARelement Жыл бұрын

No tank is able to have 900mm of steel looped onto it unless it has a 14 mm thick unmanned turret, no ERA, 50mm side armor MAX with a 1800HP engine to even come close to useful… Even then you’re looking at Maus speed, and we didn’t even get to the point of how tf do you balance tht + create a sustainable suspension for that wonky weight distribution. Look how much armor it had just to not even close to that of what a T-72B3 could stop… Homogeneous armor ISNT AN OPTION at all. So mentioning it being better makes 0 sense, isn’t true l, isn’t practical. If that’s the case tell me why countries build the Leopard 2, Abrams, T-90 and not the Maus, Ratte, E-100, E-75s, Tiger IIs, IS-7s, T-10Ms, Is 3, etc??? BECAUSE HOMOGENEOUS ARMOR ISNT AN OPTION. You will never successfully win an argument saying the IS 3 is better than the T-72 I’m SORRY. Name at any point in time that a 300 ton plus hunk of steel will ever be useful in a conflict other than being a MASSIVE waste of material, and an overkill of a paper weight?

@Max_Da_G Жыл бұрын

@@BARelement You missed my point. I never said that homogenous armor is a superior solution. And I fully agree with your points. In fact homogenous armor is bad against HEAT jets: they PREFER the homogenous material as it helps penetration. Only a combination of defenses can help: active protection system, combined with layered ERA and then the composite armor. APS to destabilize the APFSDS projectile, ERA to shatter it and composite to handle the pieces landing onto it. As for HEAT rounds, APS would cause the to explode or damage the metal cone that's the HEAT jet material.

@nucleus691 9 ай бұрын

But composite armor is better against everything?

@ushikiii 7 ай бұрын

dunno. The ceramic or "hard" layer of chobalm or similar Armour types shatters to distribute the energy of the impact across a larger area on the next layer of steel. This increases armour protection even against kenetic projectiles.

@israelacevedo2258 2 жыл бұрын

Leclerc please!!!

@1SweetPete 2 жыл бұрын

Dart completely invalidated this armour... damn

@inniyewtesfaw2003 2 жыл бұрын

as expected, NERA is meant to counter chemical warheads

@illturralli 2 жыл бұрын

Geez, its practically worthless vs this level of apfsds.

@volatile5460 2 жыл бұрын

Depending against kinetic ammunition is very difficult today. Shaped charges are easier to defend against and most NERA composites focus on this to protect the tank vs air strikes, infantry, etc.

@utah20gflyer76 3 ай бұрын

Also not a realistic test since all T72s have ERA in those areas. Without including the entire system you really aren’t looking at reality.

@hssilic3794 2 жыл бұрын

танковые бои это просто уникальность. 95% всех уничтоженных приходятся на артиллерию, птрк, рпг

@GGoblin525 Жыл бұрын

Глупость. Лоб башни 72 так не пробивается

@redpart 2 жыл бұрын

T72B

@zidfih1176 2 жыл бұрын

Do a simulation of mud and supply lines cause they are doing the most damage to T-72s

@user-jl7bn7nt5l 5 ай бұрын

it isnt NERA

@WarDaddy8917 2 жыл бұрын

The fact thats just a M829 which is a retired ammunition while the newest and longer and much tougher and smarter M829A4 was just buffed up to beat the ERA

@kazaxnayman385 2 жыл бұрын

Да как он пробил броню толщина стенки можно выдет но другом выдосе показали как не пробиват лоб танка М1 Абрамс рекашет под башню

@Terminator-T850 5 ай бұрын

Как ни посмотришь подобные ролики - наша техника сплошь пробивается, натовская нет. Одна пропаганда.

@Artig627 3 ай бұрын

Лол, у тебя в мозгу пропаганда сплошная

@30oooo33 4 ай бұрын

🤣

@niffy99 2 жыл бұрын

So basically the t-72 is dead

@chaukim4753 Жыл бұрын

American bullets can penetrate through any T-72 tanks. Poor Russians.

@gauden7785 2 жыл бұрын

Western 120mm can penetrate all Russian tanks easily. Russian tanks have very bad quality amour.

@RiccardoTheBeAst 2 жыл бұрын

This is bullshit 😂😂😂 Soviet armor was far superior to NATO tanks. For all the 70s and 80s they fielded tanks with thick composite armor, against 105mm armed NATO tanks with relatively thin RHA armor. That comparison is 1985 armor vs 1993 round, bad quality my ass.

@gauden7785 2 жыл бұрын

@@RiccardoTheBeAst Don't be stupid, take a look in ukraine. 1,000 Russian tanks were destroyed today, where are their amour. That''s 2022 amour, but 2010 rounds, stupid.

@agt155 2 жыл бұрын

@@RiccardoTheBeAst M829 is from 1983.

@RiccardoTheBeAst 2 жыл бұрын

@@agt155 Sorry i was wrong, but it's from 1985, so a bit wrong are u too... M829 and T-72B went in use at the same time :P