I think one way Moscow and Apología can go a long way in helping others get into the "mood" is by not wearing baseball caps backwards indoors!! 😊

U guys are great. So happy to see some smart courageous MEN

This was an edifying conversation. Thank you!

This was awesome! Great conversation. I enjoy how gracious you both were to those you may disagree with. Keep being faithful and thank you again for your encouragement!

Great interview... Glad I stuck through the whole thing. Love the honesty and vulnerability of the host and of Joe Rigney.......Never heard Joe Rigney talk for this long. Really appreciate how Joe Rigney spoke so respectfully and well of John Piper. Maybe the best discussion of this whole Ligon Duncan thing I've seen (maybe other than Doug Wilson's response article/video). Really good and interesting and enlightening. This interview pretty much tied the bow on this whole Ligon Duncan thing for me... I feel like I'm pretty much up to speed on the situation and can move on!

Every time I come across another response to Ligon Duncan I'm tempted to skip it because I've listened to all so far but I'm learning more with each one. Such principles men. Paul said there must be divisions among the church so that those who are approved may be recognized (1Cor 11:19). That is what is happening here!

Thanks Chase for saying what I’ve been thinking about these guys 54:00

Rosaria Butterfield was on the podcast and she called out (in a kind and loving way) Demars for the name of his podcast too. As a former college English professor, she gave him some good feedback. Great interview Pastors. Thank you!

fantastic brothers.

Something I appreciate about the Moscow crew is that when they see an issue, they name names and show receipts. This isn't a matter of feeding my deep-seated desire for controversy; it gives me a chance to evaluate the claims myself. Duncan, at least in this interview, is exactly the opposite, just like most of the rest of Big Eva (with the notable exception of KDY's otherwise-abysmal piece). And thus he gets to lob his grenades indiscriminately while maintaining plausible deniability--"oh no, Joe, I didn't mean *you."* And I as a listener of his have to either believe him on faith, or not. And my willingness to believe him on faith is, shall we say, lessened, when he makes face-plantingly false statements of fact, like that the abolition movement just began after the _Dobbs_ decision, or that Chinese Christians don't have any concept that their government is subject to the lordship of Jesus Christ (as Wang Yi rots in prison for preaching exactly that thing). Oh, and that "they" wouldn't last three seconds in a room with someome (whom he never bothers to name), but then he declines the invitation to visit.

This was fantastic!!

Thanks, brother - this is very good. Keep going!

In my opinion, Duncan is in spiritual declension and that's why he's responding this way. If he were spiritually healthy, he would display grace.

Everyone leading during these fraught days would do well to remember 2Cor 5:10. "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad."

At 19:50, I think of what you described in terms of a guild, with the older eatablished members playing gatekeeper. Junior aspiring folks need to fit a pattern before they’ll be let in.

Great conversation. As a Muscovite, it was refreshing to hear Rigney's gracious response to Duncan.

Could you do a podcast on how the Cross Politic guys "nuanced" the interview with Klaven? It was a big Wiff.

Want to hear something rather amusing? To understand this, a bit of context will need to be established as it relates to my testimony in salvation which occurred recently in Nov of '22 . I'm a 48 year old guy, but between the ages of 10 and 15, I had been exposed to a sound Gospel. The brethren assembly I had attended, leaned Arminian in its soteriology. Note, I was not formally aware of either this term, nor any other theological terms. As a young boy, I would be pulled aside by good-faith elders asking "Are you saved yet?". I distinctly recalled my confusion, not in the fact pattern of the Gospel, nor the requirements of salvation (i.e. a personal exhibition of faith in Christ), but in the mechanics of how that all worked. As a consequence, as a young boy I had made a false profession of faith, namely due to a peer-pressure fueled by a desire to conform. At 15, I left the assembly and became a devout agnostic and it wouldn't be soon later until my alcoholism came into full force. At 30, I came into the rooms of AA and was told to hit my knees in prayer to petition God for help. I recall the distinct repulsion I had to that suggestion, an "anything but that" response, for I had deep resentments toward that assembly at the time. Left without options, I did as was suggested and God removed the compulsion to obsession to drink that week. That was back on April 4, 2007. This event changed me from an agnostic to a theist, and I have never since then lost sight that this was a divine miracle that I had been graced with. However, it wouldn't be for another 15 years until I was Graced with a salvation through Christ. It occurred, not while piously reading Scripture, but as I was heading down a darker road deeply immersed in sinful conduct. In that way, my experience was very much like Paul's in that I was heading in one direction and yanked 180 in another. Note, my salvation did not include the audible hearing of any voices or seeing any visions, so in that aspect it was not like Paul's conversion. I could go more into this, but I'm trying to get to an amusing punchline. Something miraculous had transpired in me which ended with a "It was Christ's Gospel all along?". I scrambled to the Scriptures to ascertain a clearer description of what transpired in me. I came to the Scriptures emptied of all preassumptions, of all former teachings and came into salvation with a Calvinistic understanding that had no labels for description. So, as I continued my deeper dive into the NT, I also took to listening to several pastors online, who would include men like Jon MacArthur, RC Sproul, John Piper among a host of others. I find myself awed by the selection of men God had specifically put into my sphere. Among those men was someone by the name of Joe Rigney. I have never listened to a formal sermon from him; however, as an extra curricular exercise, I had taken to reading Jonathan Edwards treatise, "The End For Which God Created The World". At first attempt, I found the language a bit challenging and so I found a lesson hosted for free online by TGC, featuring Joe Rigney as the instructor. He was instrumental in setting up the framework for establishing an understanding in Edwards' work. With some time, I became more familiar with his eloquent use of language and my understanding of his work deepened and has had quite a profound impact on me. So in my mind, TGC represented nothing other than the spirit of Joe's teaching in this course. It's the only exposure I've had with TGC and so you can imagine my head-scratching as I'm hearing about this organization having gone woke. Then, yesterday, I see a round-table discussion featuring Doug Wilson, a few others I'm not familiar with, and a host who strikes me as distinctly familiar. He's got a perfectly bald head, and so at first pass a vague familiarity strikes me; then he spoke. I recognized his voice and mannerisms immediately. This was the guy who taught me Edwards! And he's hanging with Doug Wilson! I don't know why, but I just find the whole thing a bit amusing for some reason, having been thrown into the middle of major tectonic shifts occurring within the evangelical space, and having to catch up on what's been transpiring over the last decade within these circles. Anyway, I just wanted to thank Joe for the work he did in that course. It was really instrumental in establishing a God-centric understanding that touches and underpins all theological doctrines. I'm thrilled to know you're affiliated with Doug and as I think upon it, it makes perfect sense as to why. God Bless you and your family Joe! Love ya buddy!

Some use Nuance to Blur lines, often when things are simple and straight forward. Some use Nuance to draw lines (of clarity) when things are complex. I appreciated Joey’s critique of the word nuance. Clarity is a much better term.

I think people are being way too “kid gloves” with Duncan

Incredible conversation with 2 Godly and faithful brothers!

Despite Rigney’s association with John Piper, I’m beginning to have a deep appreciation for him.

Great idea to make interesting podcasts much shorter and more pithy - outlaw the use of "like" and "you know"... Like, you know?!?

O.K. Moore's exam question/"thought experiment" was very creepy. Doug's "Ride, Sally, Ride" is creepiness on steroids. All that "big boy" business. I'm just glad the movie never got made.

Yeah to say someone can’t disciple their cat, that’s mocking 😂 and the fetal position thing. He clearly is ok with it, as long as he’s not the one it’s pointed at

I don't disagree that Ligon was using caricature and mockery. I don't disagree Moscow does it too. I despise its use inside the Body of Christ whenever I see it. Rules for Radicals has no place in the Body of Christ. Increasing factionalism is borderline heretical. Biting and Devouring fellow believers is reprehensible. One day, we will all have to stand before Our Lord and answer for how we treated His Bride. I think we all would be better served by cherishing it as much as He does.

37:39 When Rod Dreher was trashing Moscow on-line I lost a lot of respect for him. I may be a little naive, but I believe in a big-tent Christianity and even though I don't fall into any theological camp with Pastor Wilson in Idaho, I find the whole reaction to him to be disgusting. It helps identify the Christians who will never fight for the faith if it puts them at odds with the culture. They take cheap shots at Moscow primarily to signal that they aren't the bad sort of Christian to people they want to stay in good graces with. I'm ex-Calvinist, was never presbyterian. I don't share Doug's eschatology, although I hold my eschatological views very loosely, and there are very limited eschatological views that I would close-handedly reject. But Doug gives a robust defense of Mere Christianity against clown world, and I'll stand shoulder to shoulder with any Christ follower who is willing to do that. I liked Rod Dreher's 'Live not by lies' book and I thought that was an indication that he was starting to understand the times we live in. Now I think he's a totally broken man, and he looks to be more of a cautionary tale of what to avoid. I don't relish his destruction. It scares the heck out of me to be honest. That wreckage could easily be me.

Showed this to my sister. Her comment was, "Cry-Babies." She also wants to know, "Do y'all have cats and have you ever tried to discipline them?"

I don't get what all the hullabaloo is about. All the reform pod-jockeys have been indignantly sputtering into their Moscow approved scotch for days now. (I have seen the word "gay" and "effeminate" constantly lobbed at Duncan by the Wilson acolytes). It's weird.