It occurred to me (quite recently) that maybe the move to SUV shaped cars is all about having a shape that allows the floor to be raised and 'stuffed' with batteries. i.e. to deflect negative comments when the EVs come along. (This thought popped in my head whilst gazing at a jaguar e-pace)

Yeh. Most cars are boring today. I don’t even like modern Lamborghinis or Ferraris they’re just too boring. I want something that is more brutal, visceral like this👍🏼

@@matty6848 Same here, I don`t like Ferrari`s design after the 430, they don`t trigger any "would like to have"-feeling any more in me as the older models did.

@@germanguywithjumpercables7955 yes agreed. I would still rather have a classic Ferrari from the 80s/90s than a modern model. The modern Ferrari’s aren’t even head turners these days. They definitely don’t have the road presence that like the old models did. The modern models are almost cheap and tacky today. Don’t know perhaps it’s just me, but I don’t like them.

Very well said

In Brazil, we had the Opel Ascona C rebadged as a Chevrolet Monza and sold till mid to late 90s. They even had some limited edition blue and green colours for the 94 world cup. My mom had a green one

Of course.....

For some reason Opel breaks are horrible... I had a 1993 Opel Astra and tested the acceleration on a airport runway, after slowing down from 130km/h and turning around and testing the speed the other way I found out the breaks was overheating when I tried to stop the second time and barely managed to stop before going into a ditch with the last 20 meters being on gravel... After that I ordered new dirt cheap break disk that was NOT Opel original and ordered break pads meant for racing. Those racing brake pads was immune to overheating, I tried breaking from 120km/h to 0 four times in a row and no sign of brake fade. But one side effect was that they needed to heat up before giving full effect, which meant that when starting to break you had to use all your power on the break pedal and then ease of as it did heat up, this was actually perfect and gave really short breaking distance.

I had a Cavalier Sportshatch, aka Manta GTE, looked good in the day, my friend's dad had a gold Vauxhall Royal, which was a nice looking car, that people would admire. In truth we all considered the Opel equivalents as a rung up.

The build quality on the Vauxhall Coupe was never a match for the Belgian-made Manta.... I've had both: Chalk & Cheese. I guess that's what Ian Gillett above/below is saying. So sad because I'd always wanted to buy "British Built" cars at that time, if possible. (c-1982) Many years later... I met a bloke who had worked at the Vauxhall Ellesmere Port plant as an electrician at that time, some of the stories he told me about the relations between management and the shop floor....well, they simply explained it all. Pathetic as pathetic gets. There was a "Red Robbo" in every UK factory it seems to me, looking back. Terrible times. And we all paid the price. Irrespective of your position in the manufacturing industry. So many opportunities. Wasted.

@@patagualianmostly7437 My Cavalier Coupe was made in Germany as there were numerous Russelsheim stamps embossed on the car. I believe that all Coupes were made by Opel, (alongside the Manta), either in Germany or Belgium. The saloons were mostly made in Luton.

The Senator was a seriously good car. Very smooth in terms of engine and ride, it didn’t have stupidly oversized wheels to ruin the ride like most cars today I suppose.

@@patagualianmostly7437 I had a Cavalier coupe, before several Mantas. They were all built in the same factory.

"Monza GSE".... please.

Both please

Did'nt they fit the same digital dash to the astra GTE? Just like knight rider, lol if you were a child of that era. Affordable classic if you can find one, proper hens teeth car.

@@cbrboy76 very similar display I think they were different sizes the Carlton GSi3000 also had a similar digital display and I think some of the newer senators

@@danielrussell446 yes i remember the top spec senator having the digital dash. Nearly bought one in the early 2000's when you could pick one up for £500.

They even made Diplomat’s ,with 5.4 V8 , and the Commodore 2.8 GSE.

I think that sums it up well, what's to be added, the KAD-Line (Kapitän - Admiral - Diplomat) really could match the S-Class like you mentioned. With that 5.4 liter it indeed was another luxury car. Back then in Germany, Ford hat nothing to compare, the BMW 3.0 was rather a sporty limousine and VW did not have anything luxurious at all, Audi did not have the 200 ready yet and even that wasn't at the S-Class level. So in that Class in the 70s you've had Opel and Mercedes. Which now seems like an odd thing to think of. In the class below (we call it oberklasse=upper class) Opel more or less had two models the Rekord which was like the tame and solid car and the Commodore which was the sport version of that with the 6-Cylinder. And these competed with the W115/W123 by merc, the Ford Granada, BMW 5 Series. So the Senator and Monza were more in respect to the oil crisis and the force to be more economical than the Diplomat had been. The size was somewhat in between these classes, bigger than the W123 but smaller than the W116/126. The image already couldn't live up to the S-Class anyways. But still Opel did have their customers of that KAD-Line which they've tried to satisfy and that's why they offered it. They never had an 8-Cylinder in these, but the room and space certainly was up to the W126. I think the market for Opel with practically at least the whole european continent plus several other places in the world made it reasonable for GM to give them their own way of design and production. Things got actually more weird when the Opel Omega showed up as the successor of the Rekord. The size already was on W124 level, enginges had 4 as well as 6 cylinders with some sporty models. But it wasn't seen as exclusive like a Merc BMW or Audi. It rather was compared with the Ford Scorpio (I think still Granada in UK). So they came up with that Senator B which was a somewhat bigger and more refined alternative to the Omega. And that was compared to Cars like Merc 300 E, Audi 200 but also cars like the Saab 9000, Volvo 760, Lancia Thema etc. Sales were rather poor though. And there was no Coupe in that range anymore. I think at the end of the 80s with the 6-Series fading out, Mercedes was the only manufacturer with luxury coupes in that range, maybe the Volvo 780 and the Honda Legend were some really rare alternatives. The Omega B then was the last attempt for Opel to compete in the upper class segment. Sized even bigger than the Senator it was one replacement for both. It had its sales (especially as Caravan), but qualitywise it failed to compete with the now dominating premium brands Audi A6, BMW 5 Series and Mercedes E-Class. What came after that were cost savings and huge quality issues for the whole brand of Opel, from Corsa till Omega. From the mid 90s on Opels were known to be plastic cars that you would see on the sidestrip of roads and also having rust and electronic problems. They've tried to solve it by replacing the Omega with the Signum, which was a van version of the Vectra C - failure. Opels attempts to see upper or even luxury class were finally at their end. They are trying now with the signum.

@@torbenanschau6701 Beautiful cars, the KAD-models. Really classy. I noticed prices for nice examples have gone up quite drastically in recent years, especially for 5.4-diplomats. To the point sometimes that V8-S-class saloons of the same era in equal condition will cost you less. Rarity is probably the reason for that, but I'd like to think there's a sense of rectification in it as, as you say, they were very much S-class' equal. I would say the also handsome looking BMW 3.0 competed quite well with a 2.8-admiral or a Mercedes 280, but not so much the higher spec versions.

@@torbenanschau6701 great summary. For English and Americans, the Caravan here means the Estate or Station Wagon version.

Hi, I'm German and there aren't many Monzas wich still exist but more then 500 just in Germany

These things rusted out long ago he's probably right on that 20

@@samholdsworth420 HML currently shows 54 taxed. altogether there's probably about 300 in the uk

@@samholdsworth420 as I said in Germany there are way more

IIRC when i had mine there were 53 left in the UK on the road, that was a long time ago tho, 2006 or so

A video from long ago if someone is interested kzfaq.info/get/bejne/qqdmaK-nrMu4qYk.html

Glad to hear you are still a Monza enthusiast Derek. Do you still have the Patrick Collection FF? All the best from Alan from Stroud, Gloucestershire (one of the RMOC founder members and owner of various Monzas)

cool story bro the soviets had a proposed version too... but unfortunately this car would never make it into production

lol

They actually did build one, which still exists: kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rrt7dNJixL-9fYE.html

@@550r don’t bother, guy sounds like a wanker

@@550r kzfaq.info/get/bejne/ebCId8uTt8WtmIk.html Its not the only Monza V8 out there with a Holden V8 right now its getting a exhaust custom made and then it needs a wheel agliment and then its ready to go on the road kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rZN1dq2bsZedYWQ.html

If you like these you would like the Holden LX Torana SS Hatch 1977/78 model.one recently sold for nearly 300,000 aud.

Vauxhall is niche brand no one heard outside UK

Agreed.. I also had a Manta GTE in the late 80's. I had an Opel Kaddet 1.3SR as my first car too.

I feel like Opel had separate dealers?

@@rrshowtime3900 Opel Kadett 1.3 SR? What kind of power did it make? I had never heard of SR with a 1.3. My first car was a 1986 Kadett 1.3 S with 75 hp.

​ I got switched on to Opel from buying a "sleeper" Ascona...1975.... 2.0 With LSD! Boy, did it love the bends. (On the test drive, I scared the salesman shitless.) Then I found a Manta Berlinetta, (1978) in black..... beautiful looking car and I rather strangely picked it over a 3.0 Monza that was, I was told, rather "Pepped-up"....engine & suspension wise, by the salesman. It put me off a bit I guess, thinking it had been thrashed. And as we all did back then, was a bit apprehensive as to running costs. It was 1981...... But, apart from the looks, comfort & build quality..... the Manta was no match for the earlier Ascona wolf-in-sheep's clothing.! Years later... I had a Cavalier SRi..... very quick and good all-around....but such a let-down on build quality.

Funny.. the vr6 is often mocked for having a low hp/liter ratio. But if a 3 liter 24v did 200hp, i dont think 190hp from a 2.9l 12v is too bad. Man, I love 80's and 90's cars. Even the ones I never paid any attention to when I was a kid seem cool now. Love to see cars of this era. 😄

@@tim1polman That VR6 engine was a silky smooth gem, that's for sure. The inline 6 fitted to the Opel under discussion was a bit 'industrial', but was smooth and reliable and had a 'decent' specific output for the era, better than the 4.2 Jag, anyway.

@@tim1polman I think the whole low output thing is kind of bad, especially when people seem to lack comparative engines. Here's a good comparison: the 3l 6cyl of BMW in 1984 made 185 bhp, the 3l 6cyl of Mercedes-benz made between 180 and 210 depending on the model and opel's 3l 6cyl made between 170 and 200 bhp depending on model. So in hindsight, not that bad of a specific output. A worse example would be the PRV, which was much less potent

The 24v was a quick thing in the real world much like the VR6. Peak numbers only tell a small part of the story but are unfortunately what people obsess over. The 24V had the dual ram intake which gave really good torque spread.

A good power output for its time, if you consider say a 2005 Renault Laguna II 3.0 V6 24v VVT was 204bhp some 19yrs later !.

These were never built with a 24v engine those you see are conversions

@@markpantony7232 I thought that was what he meant?

@@realMaverickBuckley I think that's mixed up with the Opel Omega. I don't think the suspensions and steering were ready for such big engines in the Senator A or Monza.

My parents had 3 x 3.0CD Auto Senators too, the earliest being an '85 and the other two later shaped cars. They were great solid cruisers with a good turn of speed if needed. Guess thats why the police used them on the motorway. The engines were absolutely bomb proof too, our C plate senator had 275,000 miles on it and it was still silky smooth and pulled like a train. Alas, the strut tops rusted through but I reckon it would still be running now if we still had it.

@@johnj3577 my dad had 3.2 24v Omega Elite, that was fantastic to drive and very quick for the size and power on offer.

I had a school friend who's dad was a car dealer and bought a royale brand new on a T plate (I think ,it was a long time ago) he was going to buy a Granada Ghia,but tested the royale (and lived near Luton ) and was sold on it. As a 12 year old lad,it was a treat to get a lift to football and back in it 👍

I got an Ex BAC (before it was BAe) managers car at 3 years old OFR 57 X as FR was local to Preston where the BAC factory was. Loved it and it would tow anything.

Wasnt so fuel efficient is it?

"I was very young"..... made me smile...weren't we all! All seems a very, very long time ago!

Came here to say this very thing...looked a bit big for the lanes but I'm sure Austin was comfortable at least.

Nice idea.

@@stephenconway2468 even better, the Irmscher 4-litre... the Mantzel stroker crank plus a small bore out would give 4.2 litres, and plenty of power even with no turbos.

@@richardharrold9736 yeah I remember reading about the 4ltr conversion back in the late 80s/early 90s. A 4.2 sounds even better, the Lotus engine was a 3.6 with 410lbft torque so that 4.2 has to give over 500+lbft with the right turbos. Just imagine driving a sorted one down the autobahn at 180+mph!

@@davekennedy6315 Mantzel got 4 litres by stroking the stock 3 litre block, Irmscher went for a slightly shorter stroke but used their own bespoke block. My inclination would be to build a 4.2 high compression N/A unit, ITBs, aggressive cams, and on that basis, 600bhp @ 9000rpm should be doable.

@@davekennedy6315 if you were to go boosted, I reckon that 24psi would get you an easy 1000+bhp - I have some notes saying 1080bhp @ 8700rpm could be feasible. That's based on some rough arithmetic derived from the Irmscher 4.0, multiplied out to 4.2, then multiplied by the increased RPM, then by the boost.

Late model Royale's were available with the 3 litre injected engine. Possibly because they had run out ot the 2.8CIH

@@drewsimpson5967 Yes, I was aware of that. I think that the Royale Coupe is cooler than the Monza. Then there's the Viceroy, which was a half-way house between the Carlton and the Royale. Why have 1 exec. saloon when you can have 3 ?