This car looks so much better than the 2022 redesign

I have a 13' FR-S. I installed progressive rate springs, 17x9 wheels, full exhaust and a supercharger. It makes 305hp and 225tq. I spent $6800 on upgrades. Some people may not be as lucky as I was getting deals left and right, but it's definitely possible to get this car to where it should be for a similar price as the tS. I love it! This car is extremely impressive and is always getting praise.

Thanks for taking the time to review a tastefully modified example of these cars. I've built essentially the same car and it is perfection.

"Couple thousand dollars" ...for Brembo's? Both front and rear? Nah, dude... triple that number

This was an excellent comparison that I feel a lot of people wanted to see, thank you.

Doug de who? Now this is a real review.

Great review! I bought a 2020 BRZ TS and I’m absolutely in love with it. I’m still in the break in period but can’t wait for the first 1000 mile oil change so I can gun it a bit more and see its capability. So far I can just feel the handling and it’s at a another level. This is coming from an owner of a 2019 SUBARU STI.

Finally, people that get it.

2017 BRZ PP owner here and I agree I would get the PP and use mods to achieve what I want versus the tS

Best list of mods I’ve seen for the 86/BRZ. David thanks for sharing the details of your common sense build.

Excellent piece! Very useful information. Nice to have a BRZ owner who’s modded, do a side-by-side comparison as well.

I'm a driver myself and I prefer useful additions - the wing? NO. I will stick with my 2017 and spend money on performance improvements - its already a great looking car!

I do not know why Subaru or Toyota have not added 50 more horsepower to this car it would sell like crazy

Wow what a GREAT review. That was an amazing video.

Thanks for one of the few positive tS reviews. I've had mine for a month and I adore it. It's already tuned and I'm now focusing on underpanel aero!

Build it, just funner to do !

What a great review and comparison. Really appreciate the info!!

i love your thought on this. i love the ts. i just bought one. everyone disses it. but i dig it harddddd

Basically, his justification for buying the ts is he likes the look better.

As a BRZ owner with very similar modifications, I will say I probably would have gotten a tS if I knew it was going to drop in price so much. They're being sold for ~31k due to stock not moving at some dealers! But at ~34k, it's not worth it. Thanks for the detailed/high quality review!

STi springs on the Sachs dampers. Also the draw stiffeners. More that just 7k in upgrades. If you’re trying to buy a that wing it’s like 2k to almost 4K.

I bought a BRZ premium. Its an awesome car. My brz is my daily and my evo is the track car. I love the stock seats of the brz. I just wish I would have bought a brz with the brembro brakes.

"Going exactly the speed limit" Yeah hokay there bud!

very professional review, good job man ! many exterior shots, what amateurs lacking off .btw of course tS would be my choice

Can we get a list of mods on the regular BRZ? I'm curious about the transmission mods mostly.

Great review with lots of usable info-Thanks! How to reach David Dossett to get more specific info on his shifter/trans/diff oil mods & overall suspension set-up? Thanks!

This helped me very much, thank you!

Enjoyed the video/discussion. I bought an 86 base and it has been a blast to drive! You all can hate on me as I ended up choosing the auto due to my constant stop and go here in my town. I am 65 years old. “HINT(?)” Mods: Only mod I am thinking is sound deadening as hi-way two lane open road is terrible noisy making long distance travel tiresome. Just sitting in my garage, playing my base stereo is not bad to my ears. Its just not happening while motoring on the hi-way/freeway. I really would rather leave my factory stereo as is if maybe Dynamate would be helpful to honestly lowering interior DB levels. But, so far, I have not found evidence convincing me to invest the time and $$$ to doing such a task. I did buy Eargasum hearing protector buds. I have to say I like them, but, I found if excessive ear wax is an issue the ear plugs do not stay in the ear very long before working there’er way out. As for the power of the car. I catch it all the time by people having little understanding of what Toyota/Subaru Engineers spent humongous amount of hours, scientific testing and analysis to the creation of such a fun car. As an owner, I understand. And I am grateful for the hard work and dedication that went into these cars. I just wish SOME Expert could do a test of before full Interior of Dynamat-Testing versus stock. Oh MAn !!! 🤗

I have a tS. Traded in my paid off 2013 FRS for it. Have no regrets at all. The cabin of the tS is a much more enjoyable place to be in daily and it has the look and suspension mods I wanted all under warranty.

The one and only reason I would buy the ts is the additional welding and bracing that's done to the body and chassis. As to the rest, I can put together a much more useful suspension and braking package for 8k

The tS should've been a super lightweight track ready car with lighter bucket seats, lighter wheels, deleted rear seats, no radio, carbon hood, carbon roof, brake cooler, oil cooler, and michelin pilot sport cup 2 tires...

great comparison thanks for the vid.

Great video 👍🏾

What do you think of the tS vs a BRZ with the performance pack (Sachs dampers) for everyday drivability? Does the stiffer tS make it hard to daily drive?

if you're intending to keep the car for 10+ years and essentially don't intend to ever get rid of it, just get a base model and mod it. I have a MY15 BRZ with Tein Flex-Z coil overs and their EDFC active damping system controlling the damping on each corner independently on the fly. Set up with -2 deg camber all round and lowered 2". For bracing I have the TRD door stabilizers, STI draw stiffener and STI v-braces. I threw in a Cusco 2.556 FD ratio and one piece aluminium drive shaft, which made every gear 13% faster and improved throttle response. Power wise I fitted some Crawford power blocks to move the entire power band down a few hundred RPM and fatten up the low down torque a little. This does not require an engine tune. Inside I sprinkled some STI bling bits like the gear shifter and push start button. Swapped the Stereo out for a top of the line Pioneer with Android auto and Apple play, but also replaced and upgraded all the speakers and added a 2x 16cm powered sub into the boot from Pioneer, which weighs only 6kg. Also added a small 4 channel amp under the passenger seat. Just about to replace the Tires and will go with the Pilot sport 4s ones, but in 215 size on the stock wheels. Price of all this? Probably around 13k USD and I haven't even touched the wheels or brakes or have any body kit. Worth every penny so far. Will do forged 17x7.5" BBS wheels and then finish with some ACE EL headers and a custom tune. For just a street car this is more than enough to be entertaining. The Ts edition is only for people that don't want to mod their car and are intending to sell it after a few years.

That nodded one is exactly what I'm in the middle of doing. Down to the alignment specs. Only difference is the wheels and oil cooler are in the garage and not on the car.

Do the base models on the 2018 have car play? I thought this guy was driving a 2017

I'm in the "buy the Performance Pack" camp. The Brembos alone are more than worth the $1100 options package! Bought my '17 PP in January '18 (for $26,300+tax/fees), added tires, minor camber mods, full exhaust and racing brake pads which puts me at roughly a tad over $29k. I've embarrassed cars including a prepared track BRZ and cars with 3 times the horsepower at four different circuits so far. Oil cooler for reliability and E85 tune for power come next year, possibly lighter wheels. The only thing I wish my car had from the tS is the wing and the new head unit, but I can deal without them. Plus, I really wanted a red one!

Great real world review!!

I don't understand the twins power band, nothing happens when you past the tq dip. It falls flat on its face as the revs climb. It almost feels like the power band is flipped where it has more gusto on the low end and nothing up top. Very odd.

Got a used 2014 GT86 for $20K AUD under 30,000 kilometres on it. Threw in a Harrop super charger with forged internals and supporting mods. Cost me (including labor) $17k aud. It's now running on 12psi, around 300whp. The best decision I've ever made, this car now feels like a rocket and I've been running it for 10,000km's daily driving with no issues. You're really throwing money away by purchasing these cars brand new. So much potential to build one yourself and cost you similar to new if not less.

this kid was good, actually not annoying owner and very bright, might have future in this...

Hey man what’s the VIN on this I’m trying to get a list of all 500

I own a 2013 modified BRZ and I do DEs and Time Trials. Whoever wants a street car that is reliable and has better look, the brz ts is a good choice. But performance wise, it doesn’t worth it. here’s the thing. 1, 18inch wheels make you slower on track. Every single brz race car I’ve seen so far runs 17 inch wheels. 2, the wing is just for show because brz doesn’t have the power to overcome the drag. Plus I don’t see front aero part to balance the wing. 3, No, you don’t need Brembo. For a better pedal feel, fine. But for a light, low power car, the oem calipers with better pads and fluid will be sufficient enough for anything besides racing. Not to mention that most brz Time trail cars only upgrade front calipers for consistency and weight reduction.

What are the aero specs for that big boy wing? What speed does it become efficient and what’s the downforce weight?

I love that when he gets to the wing, he says if your looking for an aftermarket wing it'll be about $600... the oem carbon fibre wing is like $5000 from subaru. Not exactly a great value for your money there.

One of the best videos I've seen on these cars. Many solid points. Also, I'd buy a base and mod it my way. Not a fan of leather so no need for the premium. I don't like the lip or the side skirts or the wing on the TS, and the red inside is tacky, especially the STI badging on the dash, when nothing about the car performance-wise is STI.

2017 PP here and mod to your own liking..

Thanks for this video. Im considering in getting a used Ts that ive been eyeballing. iono if it's worth it if the previous owners abused it. I was considering just getting used based model & fix it up with modified parts.

Going exactly the speed limit eh David?

this was an amazing comparison. thanks

I think the tS is awesome. They should have named it the Subaru BRZ tbSTI. Even better if they named it the "Subaru BRZ tbSTI RS Type RA"...cuz who doesn't like letters? While the tS' are being marked down quite a bit, you can get the PP models also for insanely cheap. I purchased a new 2017 BRZ Limited w/ PP and Brembos for about $27.5 and I absolutely loved the car. Like just about everyone else who owned the car, I wished the car had closer to 220+/- horsepower of the WRX (heck, even 200 horsepower would be so much of a blast), but loved it regardless because it was so much tossable fun. I owned it for 7 weeks and then someone rear ended me. The tS is an oddity for Subaru as they don't tend to use nearly as good a rubber as some other OEMs (even on the flagship STI)...the Limited BRZs with the PP + Brembos still use that damned Primacy HP tire, and it was the first thing I replaced. The tS' wing IMO looks so, so, so much better in person than in photos.

What size tires (full size) was the non-ts guy running? Thanks

owned a frs 2013 now a brz ts2020 and 2018 sti RA .. like my BRZ ts MORE .. lightweight RWD is just too fun to throw around on tight turns ..going to super charge it soon

Does anyone know if the 2018 or 19 model still has that 'chirping' sound?

Wow. This video really impressed me. I totally thought it was going to be just another donut reviewing the car. Great job.

Honestly I like fog lights and the limited has the brembos and everything so thats why I went with the Limited instead of the tS when I bought mine.

I bought my 2015 Subaru BRZ limited with 45000 miles for 16k!! Bought it from a guy who likes car but not enough to necessarily mod the car, so he didn’t. He also well maintained the car and took really good care of it. I spent half as much as a new BRZ Limited and had money left over to modify my car to my liking (daily and occasional track build). Also your forgetting that you can turn around and sell mods for not much less than you spent on them granted you take care of those modifications. I bought RFP1 wheels for my car for 1200 and recently sold them for 1040 bucks (had them for a year). Now I have 57DRs. Overall, don’t be afraid to put some money into the car and make it your own. Get out of the car what you want from it.

My track instructor has a very similar setup to this modified BRZ and he sets better times in it than me in my 2017 focus RS with stage 2, 240kw, sway bars, lowered, enkei wheels, 9.5 inch wide semi slicks

Got an anniversary edition with the brembos and all and silver and black interior.. I'll add the aero and wheels and tires myself..🤷‍♂️ the ts in white is super cool tho.. It's the one I went to originally buy

5k boosted with all supporting mods! I also live in Vermont with endless curves and while I'll agree This car is fun out of the box Id rather have it and not need it then need it and not have it😄

10:50 another car that should make that comparison is the S2000! I just traded my BRZ for one... stock for stock in terms of pure drivers car the S2K is better, BUT I do miss all the space in the BRZ day to day... People use to laugh how tiny and unpractical the BRZ, but now all my friends talk about how "practical" the BRZ is lol... S2K is still more practical than a Miata tho... -Also the 40 extra HP is just the extra you want from the BRZ

Can somebody tell me what the red on the inside of the rim is called.

does the TS have an STI axelback?

Does anyone know the name of the spoiler on David's BRZ?

Couple points of contention wheel, even though they're 18" they're still 215s, 215 rims don't nowhere near $2k. Second you can get the big brake kit and Sachs as part of the optional $2.3k performance pkg that also comes with alloy wheels pretty much a 4k takeaway.

If you are a performance enthusiast like me, buy a used one and build it for less money than a tS. Some points to consider; - my wheels are 9.5in wide and can accept 255 width tires, also lighter. -The aftermarket Cusco coilovers I installed are much stiffer, bigger and adjustable. -Standard brakes are incredible once you upgrade the pads/fluid. -You still have money left to get an exhaust/intake/tune/and more suspension parts. I pull more than 3sec off a tS on a 1min track, grip is peeking at 1.45g (street tires), that's a massive difference in performance.

Those sachs dampers are a big improvement (and run about $1k) over the stock BRZ units.

Keen to get my 86. Gonna get keep it NA. Exhaust, Headers, ITB's with a tune then that's it.

"Has enough power". No, because [more] low end torque is SO MUCH FUN! Most of us don't spend more time at high speed on a track so I don't think saying: "seeing you drive on the track, no you don't need more power" is completely bogus, because, more power/low end torque is going to make the most difference for every day FUN. I don't want to drive at high speeds, but I do want to feel torque off the line. I *do* like better tires, lighter/bigger wheels (lower profile tires), stiffer suspension etc.

Get this guy back to review the new gen.

Can I buy a ts and remove the wing? Its about the only thing I dont like about it

i knew that place looked familiar. is that black diamond??? i love the twisties there

On the Modified car what wheel sizes did you choose, what offset did you choose?

K but you didn't take into account the cost of the parts those "STI" parts were replacing.

Great video. 1 point for feedback.. Stop finishing your guests sentences and talking over him. You want his opinion let him give it.

how do you build it without buying it

I autox my FRS so glad I bought it. The build up on that car is not hard or overwhelming. Any 86 owner will tell you this. This video is ok but they failed to show a comparison of what most owners of the triplets do with their cars and that is race it. I will tell you from watching a driver in my region literally 2 grid points down from me had purchased the ts had it 2 weeks and at his first event with that car. He lost the back end on his 3rd run and realized the sidewalls could not handle the sweeper on the course. He ended up timing under me and he has more track experience. The asphalt rashed his ts wheels and the dealer would not honor the warranty faulting the driver and not the design. By the end of the season he was on RPF1s with r71r. So the wheels were changed regardless. Sure the car looks nice but other than the infotainment unit nothing on it is worth the up charge. Build YOUR car. Going into this purchase for resale potential is wishful thinking.

Bought my base model 2017 86 for 24500 new. Put about 6000 into it which means I still have about 5k money to do other things to the car to make it better than a TS. Buying a base is better if your planning to modify.

I got a really good deal on a tS model (about 2k over the PP model) and couldn't be happier. Like you stated there are a lot of little things they've done to the car to make it different, that would IMO take me too long to achieve and at a higher cost. For the money i got the appearance and handling i want (those tires and brakes go A LONG WAY)..... Only thing i will do to the car is upgrade the headers, exhaust, and a tune for the torque dip issue..... This should add about 30-50hp which is more than enough for what this car is meant to do.... BTW great review one of the best I've seen!!

I'm debating on getting the brz or the wrx sti what you think?

Build it, plus the wing on that ts is small asf. Might as well go to ft86 speed factory and buy the SARD LSR style carbon fiber wing.

Depends, The nice thing about the tS is everything is under warranty, and if you are paying it over 5 years, that is a great piece of mind. The other thing about the Ts is the mods are already done. If you don't do the work yourself, a build can cost far more. For me, I would rather have things done and enjoy it as is then later maybe have something else to tinker with as time/budget permits.

I just hope with the next gen we get at least 200 torque and say 220 to 230 horse and fix that dip in the mid. Then it would be perfect in my eyes

Would just get the base and mod down the line or just buy the Ts if you have that much to spend

i wonder what inspired that tS logo

Two Awesome cars

I don't see much reason to get the tS unless you want that exclusivity. If you are only interested in a daily driver, you don't need any of the upgrades the tS comes with. If you want a track rat, find a 14-16 with reasonable mileage and save yourself a boatload of money, then put the difference towards getting it up to scratch for track work with coilovers, sway bars, wheels, tires, brake pads/fluid, header and tune and even having them all installed professionally you'll be far better off financially when you inevitably drive it into a wall at speed.

Plus header and tune and you good

Convert or buy, I would think resale value is going to be higher for factory built version.

Does the ts come in an automatic ?

those lip. side skirts, rear diffuser and apron are not carbonfiber they just regular ABS plastic.

The wing on my '03 Corolla really helps when I break past 45mph.

The interior on the TS, is wayyyyy better, is worth the money

I totally understand why people would buy the tS for being unique. But if your ultimate goal is to simply modify, it's best to go with the base model. Kinda like those who buy a gaming PC vs building one. Personally, I'd get a slightly cheaper trim like the Performance Package and then go from there. But if my goal is total suspension changes and engine mods, a base would make the most sense.

That's why I did both, got the ts and upgrade it lol

Uh, cherry blossoms are pink. So calling something “cherry blossom red” is still pink 😂

I woud buy the tS, its factory... It will always be worth more when ( if ) you sell. Im not convinced on the wing, but the interior is much nicer. Cool cars , whatever the model.

The 18” ts wheel sounds good, but i’d go with a fatter wheel/tire combo for the money; 215 tires look too skinny on the BRZ.

Front and rear brembo costs $2000 FR? lol