What is a Basketball critique that you can’t stand?? 
So close to 150k! Thank you all so much! Can’t wait to bring you guys the 150 Questions video :)

One that hurts me is hearing people saying that Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Jerry West etc. were trash because that played against plumbers

I think it has to deal with that the NBA is VERY INDIVIDUALIZED to the point where people disregard teams and just expect a player to do everything to win a game

I'm okay with casual fans to have those takes. The problem is that so-called "sports analysts" like Nick Wright and Skip Bayless are the ones who perpetuate those takes for clicks, which make fans think those are valid opinions.

"He's overrated, he got great team" "He's trash, he lacks accolades" Me: 🤨

I think reaching the finals with the 2007 and 2018 Cavs teams were some of the most impressive feats of his career.

A critique that drives me insane is comparing shooting percentages and numbers of threes from greats with modern players because of the way offenses and defenses were different, as well as the rules.

8:26 This right there should be the textbook rebuttal to the "1-9 without Pippen" narrative. A 30 second basketball reference search will tell you that MJ, in his first playoff series win, averaged more points than his next 5 best teammates COMBINED, the Cavs would have swept them if it weren't for MJ. He carried them again the next season all the way to the conference finals, once again averaging 40 points and hitting "the shot" against the cavs and was the only team to take any games off the Pistons that year. I actually am amazed that this narrative, being so stupid, is able to persist for so long when an easy search could have debunked it completely

I’m a Jordan fan but I got a lot of love for Kobe and Bron. I don’t see why we just can’t have our own GOATs and live in peace. All 3 were different players in different eras, let’s live in peace

I always got mad when people were discrediting Jokic's 2nd MVP. The argument was about his seeding in the West, which was below Embiid's Sixers. In reality, they had almost the same record, but Jokic was playing with a subpar company. P.S: Jonny Top 3 NBA youtuber. Nothing but facts and great takes.

You and the guys at Synthetic Sports have gotten me back into basketball… So much so that I’m contemplating joining a local rec league! Tysm for your content.

This just might be the single most important basketball video upload in today's over-analyzed, hyper-critical social media coverage of today's NBA and its players, both past and present.

Context/ education is everything. Thanks

Man you're the best NBA commentary channel.. You deserve waaaaaaay more subs.. Quality content

What drives me crazy is the extreme emphasis some fans/members of the media place on championships. Using championships, a team award, as the primary measure of individual greatness is madness and ignores a whole bunch of details and nuances that get lost to history. Chips are a part of the puzzle, but they aren't everything. Edit: For those who disagree with me, here is an example. I just watched an interview between JJ Redick and Tim Legler. I'm paraphrasing here, but Tim said that if in 2016 Draymond doesn't punch LeBron in the privates, then Warriors went on to win the championship (presumably because Dray's suspension might have affected the outcome of the finals), and everything else plays out the same in the years to come, then Curry is probably a top 5 player all-time. How does that make sense??? Curry didn't throw a punch at LeBron. Dray did. But because Curry doesn't have another ring for that, we're going to penalize him??? Madness I say.

This video is so well made !! Great research, great analysis!! This is time well invested if you want to understand basketball history. Thx for uploading!!

This upload consistency is insane! Love the content

I'm a huge Bron fan, but i appreciate Bean and MJ's game.

another kobe criticism is he got "carried" by shaq during the 3peat

Thank you mr. arnett.... Your work is just beyond amazing.... As usual... Keep it up.. Please... :)

1 vs 5 hof is too much already, hats off

1:12 I’ve definitely used his finals record in arguments, Lebron making the finals in 2007 is crazy it’s only his 3rd season and he’s already made the finals

love your content man. don't ever stop making videos please

Thank you for this content Johnny. 💯

Best sports person bro I swear. nun bias opinions and straight facts !

"LeBron isn't clutch" or "Until LeBron won in 2012, he wasnt clutch". Is one that always puts question marks over my head. The man had 2 game winners in his first playoff series, two more game winners from 2007 ECF game 5 & 2009 ECF game 2. So before he even left Cleveland he already had a resume of playoff game winners and all time playoff performances.

Always love your videos and your take. Keep up; the great work for the culture..

Wilt & Bill played against a bunch of 5 foot 2 inch white guys. A simple google search tells anyone the average height was within a half inch of being the same today as it was 60 years ago. Also that in the last couple generations this magical evolution happened that made the athletes we see today. The players in the 60’s were still world class athletes, yet everyone acts like they were the equivalent of their middle school gym coach.

I don't understand how anyone could critique Jordan. The only critique I could think of is he would've won more and peaked longer if he didn't retire the first time and wasn't a cigar smoking golf gambling maniac lol

Disengenous takes for narrative is nba twitter summed up. And why it's a toxic dump. This video is 🙌

We need more of these🔥 I’ve been thinking all these for a while

Most of that Jordan section had me laughin, I havent even made it to the third one yet but already the first 2 "critiques" being explained has added so much to both the goats legacies in my eyes. I had no idea Bron lead that dumpsterfire Cavs team to a finals, like actually how tf did I never hear about that? Was it a sweep? Only reason I could see that legendary run being mentioned so little. Seeing those Jordan video game numbers against all time players without Pippen is also super eye opening, honestly those 3 first round exits finally make me understand why people saw him as such an otherworldly player I know the 3peats were lit but he did have GOOD help for most of those chips, seeing what he could do by himself even if it was relatively inefficient hero ball, those numbers are just fcking INSANE.

Don’t forget about when MJ finally got past the Piston’s in a sweep bc “they got old,” not bc MJ avg 30ppg on 54% from the field, 7apg, and 5rpg. It was bc Joe Dumar was 27, but it had already been 2yrs since he was the finals MVP, and Isiah Thomas, who won the finals MVP the year before was already 29 and so was Rodman who was coming off back-2-back DPoYs but those were in ‘89 and ‘90 so, kinda washed up by then. So the 3 HoFers and the core of their team was all under 30 but to be fair, their center was 35! and Bill Laimbeer was 33! (Younger than MJ the year he won MVP, All Star MVP, Finals MVP, scoring champ, 1st team all-D, but still, pretty old!)….I just saw a KZfaq video from a year ago where Nick Wright actually said “Jordan lost in the first round 3 times, Lebron lost in the first round as many times as you or I who didn’t even play in the league. And only beat the Piston’s when they got old. All those things I just said are facts!” I truly have never watched a sports talking head that I wanted to physically harm like when I watch his stupid ugly rat face arrogantly spout bullshit that he makes a point to reiterate are FACTS. Bc Lebron didn’t make the playoffs his first year, so technically counts. and bc the only 2 out of 5 players on the ‘91 Pistons who aren’t in the HoF we’re in their 30s

It’s always a great day when Jonny uploads!!!

Great video as always, Jonny! I would love to see you do a counterpart to this one: "3 Praises that Drive Me INSANE! Things people tout a player for that you feel are ridiculous, misleading or are just making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Jonny, random comment, but cant tell you how much i love the intro... it's so simple, but it warms my heart everytime i see Kobe crossing the ball 'tween his legs, reading the defender's movements. Miss the Bean 💔

Great video. We need that game 7 Kobe video too bro. God bless.

I think when we’re talking about people at this level, the goat just comes down to personal preference. All of these guys were so good, so much fun to watch, and led their teams to such incredible heights. So while it is fun to debate, it’s ridiculous anyone gets mad about it. I watched the tail end of MJs career, grew up watching Kobe’s career, and have seen all of Lebrons career. All three of them were incredible, and deserve to be apart of the discussion

this is the best nba video ive ever seen in my life you are a legend sir hats off to you

New sub here keep up the good quality work man

This should be a series

I believe George Gervin was a Hall of Fame Bulls player in that Celtics series, I think he retired after MJs 63 pt game, he didn't finish the series. I'm British I could be wrong, I l'm a fan of the Iceman

Great video! 💪🏾

The lebron part isn't a bad faith argument. It's a fact. That's his Finals record. The reason it's a critique of his career is because he formed two super teams and beat up on a weak Eastern Conference which allowed him to make the Finals all of those consecutive years. The Spurs series in 07 isn't held against him as much as it was. It was his subsequent appearances getting blown out in one series and then getting saved by Ray Allen in the other Spurs series. His abysmal performance against the Mavs, and losing to the Warriors, and the bubble title. That said, he made those Finals appearances and won when he could. Good for him. You can't dismiss the legit criticism of his record when HE calls himself the GOAT.

The big problem (not unique to basketball) is that so much of this type of analysis is just picking and choosing which facts and stats to emphasize to build a narrative. The part of this that I think IS unique to basketball, or at least much more emphasized, is that the heightened focus on superstars in hoops leads to people attributing a lot of team successes and failures to individuals, or vice versa, depending on what narrative they want to build around a player or team they do or don't like. It also doesn't help that so many of these takes are coming from people who witnessed little to none of the careers they're critiquing, leading to examples like the Kobe one - in hindsight, looking at box scores, you don't see that a singlenblown box out would have completely changed the series, you just see the stats and the losses and build a narrative about choking.

SPOT ON! When people say Jordan can't pass or rebound and only scored. Amateurs. First he averaged about 6 and 6, but if they go back and watch games he's no look passing at half court. I've seen him do it twice in the same game. It's people that didn't watch him play and don't today like a few of us still do.

Balanced, fact-based, level-headed, knowledgeable. Your channel is an oasis of quality in the pool of ignorance that is KZfaq.

Great work on this one.

4:45..An 18 year old rookie LeBron James improved the Cavaliers by 18 games over the previous season

Also on LeBron's Finals record, look at his last 3 losses with the Cavs. One was when his 2nd and 3rd options went down (something no player in history could overcome), and then a 73 win team had to go out and recruit a top 3 player in order to beat him. To compare this to MJ, it would be like him losing Pippen and Rodman/Grant (depending on the run), in which case he'd lose the Finals. And it would be like MJ beating the Sonics in 96 and they respond by going out and signing Shaq in free agency, in which case MJ would have 2 more Ls on his Finals resume.

The six losses shows just how many other good players ate on his watch. So it is actually a great topic to bring up while debating the goat.

I think in any sports argument things need to be in context. Eras, play styles, rule changes, competition, teammates. It doesnt matter the sport, context is everything.

I didn’t know Kobe dropped 50pts in game 6 against PHX. I also didn’t know Luke, Smush, Kwame, and Mihm was his starters lol.

Every lebron fan I “debate” with always brings up MJs 1st round exits 😂 they don’t care about context.. thank you for this video 🙏

We NEED a Part 2 to this bro💯

You really gotta get into game 7! So many nuances to that game it’s crazy. I remember it like yesterday, I was so confused to what was happening. But then we learned later on everything that went on in the locker room and that sideline, it makes sense.

honestly I was expecting the critique of Kobe being carried by Shaq to be mentioned

Finally! Thank you! Someone needed to say this!

I only hear people bring up Bron being 4-6 when comparing him to MJ. Everybody knows that 10 finals appearances is great, just not better than 6 finals championship including two 3-peats.

Holy shit MJ is incredible

Put the top 10 most SKILLED HOF players on a list. Put the top 10 most ATHLETIC HOF players on a list. Now add individual and team accomplishments. MJ is the GOAT because of how high he ranks on both of those lists, plus his individual and team accomplishments.

Jonny! Thank you for this video and keeping all of us honest :) God Bless you!

As with everything in life, context is everything. Thanks for highlighting this fact and exposing, yet again, the lazy talking heads and their dumb narratives. These people are old enough to have watched these games but clearly, didn't or refuse to acknowledge the truth. Well done.

I feel like the biggest reason people bring up LeBron's 4-6 record is that LeBron fans (I see this often) will act as if Making it TO the finals carries the same weight as winning. Which is absurd.

bro, Michael Jordan is so fucking good when you look at it. Omg, everytime i learn more of his career i have this feeling

Kobe has never been considered the 🐐. No one has ever said that Kobe was better than Jordan so he isn't even in the conversation.

As much as a player can “carry” a team they can only do so much because basketball is a team game and every single one of these critiques shows you the limits of what one player can do

The problem is people compare lebron and jordan so it gives crazy critiques.

The following is evidence that Jordan vs Lebron comparison is not even debatably that close. Let’s look at how many times each player lead the league In advance stats. Consider that Jordan played 6 fewer seasons before age 35 (i.e. the peak years) than Lebron including 3 seasons right In his prime that he likely would have lead the league in all the advance stats and won at least one more ring. The first season he missed was injury in his 2nd year. Considering his rookie year was already 28pts 6reb 6ast 2.4stl 51.5%fg and his 3rd season was 37.1pts 5reb 5ast and that during his 2nd shortened season he came back in time for the playoffs to average 44pts including a 63pt nba playoff record, it’s probably safe to say he would have possibly lead up to 3 more times in most advance stats. Lebron’s first 2 seasons weren’t his prime so in total Lebron had 4-5 seasons more in his prime yet Jordan lead the league more often in advance stats. Number of times leading league and finishing in top 2 (Jordan’s number first, Lebron 2nd). Jordan only had 10 full seasons from his 2nd season to his last season with the bulls. His rookie is no where near prime but it does finish In top 2 on some categories. So these numbers for Jordan are basically topped out at 10, no more than 11 if adding his rookie year. Lebron at the age of Jordan’s last season with the Bulls had 15 prime season, depending which last season age matches up for both players. PER: 7/10, 6/8 WS: 9/11, 5/9 WS/48: 8/9, 5/5 BPM: 9/10, 7/9 And lets look at playoffs as well how many times each lead: PER: 6, 5 WS: 7, 9 WS/48: 5, 4 BPM: 9, 5 What about overall awards/teams/accomplishments? MVP: 5, 4 Finals MVP: 6, 4 Defensive POY: 1, 0 Defensive 1st team: 9, 5 Finals Record: 6-0 100%, 4-6 (40%) The above demonstrates that Jordan had more seasons as the best in the league (despite 4 fewer prime years than Lebron) and Jordan was more dominant in his top years. Let’s also take a closer look at PER, WS/48 & BPM and how much they won by going by most to least. PER: Jordan: 4.18, 3.94, 3.94, 2.75, 2.70, 2.39, 0.24 Lebron: 3.7, 3.3, 3.08, 1.31, 1.21, 0.83 // -.01 • *Jordan’s top 3 margin wins were bigger than Lebrons single top. Jordan has 6 wins by 2.39 or more vs 3 for Lebron.* • Top 7 seasons on margin, 2.88 Jordan to 1.92 Lebron, Jordan ahead by nearly 1 PER point (0.96). . • Or if sticking to top 6 margins, , Jordan 3.32 to Lebron 2.24, difference of 1.08. • Jordan dominated by a much bigger margin in PER. WS/48: Jordan: .0569, .0546, .0275, .0271, .0247, .0153, .0147, .0147 Lebron: 0.0603, .0311, .0258, .0198, .0088, // -. 0319, -0.0424, -.0431 • *Jordan had 5 seasons winning by at least .0247. Lebron had 3 seasons. All of Jordan’s 8 win margin were 0.0147 and above while Lebron only had 4.* • *Top 8 seasons, Jordan win margin average was .0294 to Lebron’s .00355. Jordan win margin was better by .02585 or 11.4% of Lebrons’s career ws/48 average* • Top 5 seasons average, Jordan .0382 to Lebron .0292. Jordan win margin on top 5 seasons was .009 better. • Jordan dominated by a much bigger margin in WS/48. BPM: Jordan: 4.21, 3.49, 2.74, 2.53, 1.62, 1.44, 1.11, 0.62, 0.35 Lebron: 2.59, 2.39, 2.26, 1.74, 0.94, 0.92, 0.50 // -0.20, -0.85 • *Jordan’s top 3 margin wins were bigger than Lebron’s top margin win. Jordan had 7 seasons at 1.11 and above margin while Lebron only had 4* • *Top 9 win margins, Jordan’s average was 2.01 while Lebron’s was 1.14, nearly a full point difference (0.87). That’s 9.9% of Lebron’s career BPM*. • Top 7 margin season, Jordan was 2.45 while Lebron was 1.62. A difference of 0.83. That’s 9.4% of Lebron’s career BPM. So not only does Jordan have better career stats and more often lead the league in those advance stats despite having about 4 fewer full prime seasons, Jordan also won those advance stats by a significantly bigger margin than Lebron. Add in that Jordan shot significantly better in game winning/tying shots in the playoffs, that 77% of Jordan's game winning/tying shots were in the finals/facing elimination / clinching games while Lebron's was 0%, that Jordan in the nba clutch time stats (nba defined last 5 min with game within 5pts) was much better than Lebron, that Jordan also four out played the odds compared to Lebron and would be equivalent to Lebron winning 6.5 or 7 championsips out of those 8 straight finals, that Jordan had more awards in all-defensive 1st team / DPOY / MVP / FMVP, and probably other pieces of evidence that I missed. It's clear Jordan is GOAT, at least if you just look at best 10-15 years (i.e. don't count when they are not in or near their prime).

Great work.

You make some of the best NBA videos ever.

Id love the reversal for this video a look at underrated greatness would be the title where an established legend overlooked now gets a highlight of their most well known moments for example tim Duncan's 03 playoff run David Robinson 70 point game or Scottie pippen lone season without jordan where he finished top 5 in mvp voting🎉

10 Finals.....how many future Hall Of Famers were apart of Lebron Run. How many current HOFs played in that run. But he 4-6. He has so much talent surrounding him from 2010- present

I personally hate the hate these 3 get from haters just be happy you got to watch there amazing seperate careers

Thanks Jonny!

It sounds ridiculous but it’s true, 4-0 sounds worlds better then 4-6 even when it’s really not. Unfortunate, but it be what it be.

one that kills me slowly inside is the fact that people always say lebrons legacy was saved by ray allen. if lebron never scored 14 in the 4th there would be no legacy saving shot by ray. and they hold that against bron even till this day

honestly I will only ever make one of these arguments if someone else does it first, just to try and get them to see how absurd they are

there is context to the Jordan first round exits before Pippen was ready to help him out. Its mostly to remind people that Jordan lost, like everyone else, before his team was good enough to compete. There is so much mystic around Jordan the Legend that we have to remind people that there was a period where he used to lose vs better teams. It's also to give context to his achievement of winning in every NBA finals he went to. To remind them that he needed Pippen, Horace Grant, Dennis Rodman and other good role players like Paxton, Armstrong and Kerr to make it possible. Being coached by Phil Jackson didn't hurt either. Yes, Jordan was the man, but no man can do it alone in the NBA. There are other players who could've had as much success if their team situation was just as good, but that's not always the case. For instance, one area where Jordan can claim a lot of success is the health of himself and his team during those historic 3-peats. Both LeBron and Kobe would undoubtable have had more success in winning titles if they were similarly as fortunate. It's very difficult to win back to back, and especially to 3-peat. Things have a tendency to fall apart first. It's true it's a credit to Jordan's leadership and character that it worked out twice in his case; nevertheless, he was still fortunate that it did. It's not my intent to name a GOAT in this argument. I just want a little bit of demystification in the argument. There are things to consider when we make these arguments. It's my thoughts, that when it comes to situation during career peaks, Jordan had it easy. While his fame was definitely a contributing factor, everything came to him with little forcing. In Bron's case, he had to move. Kobe on the other hand had to wait for the other 2 1/2 players he needed to win. Bron in particular did it the hard way. The NBA is built to be against fabricating championship teams from next to nothing, and in all three situations where he had championship success, it was a race to win before the consequences of spending everything for a contending team came crashing down. The 90s Bulls on the other hand was done the correct way, and being able to make moves for the second round of success after the first is also something historically proven to work after the first round of success succeeded when it was done the correct way the first time. Anyway, Kudos to Kobe for sticking it out for the least effective method of the three to pan out. The critique of Jordan's first round exits is a critique I use, but I don't use it to say he wasn't worthy. I use it to say, let's put things in perspective. Michael Jeffery Jordan was indeed special, but let's get real and not get caught in the fabrication there's more than there actually was, part of his legacy is due to great fortuitous situations shining down on him. The critique is used to show that there is a difference when he had his team behind him and what it was like before that, and when we consider the basketball greats, we show consider this part of the equation, because none of them did it without a great team. Yes you have to have a great player like Russel, like Wilt, like Kareem, like Moses Malone, like Bird, like Magic, like Isaiah, like Jordan, like Hakeem, like Shaq, like Duncan, like Kobe, like LeBron, like Kawhi and like Curry. Yes, you have to have that sort of player, there is no argument here, but what if Hakeem had had Pippen and Rodman instead of Jordan in 96-98? Just saying. This argument that Jordan was the ultimate gatekeeper needs to go away. Jordan was tier SS among the greatest; however, I do think some of his solitary feats could've been matched if other players at the same time had his situation instead. You have to have the first part, the player for sure, but you have to have the team, the second part also.

The willful ignorance and lack of objectivity/rationality in this so called ‘information age’ is depressing. Not just in the NBA GOAT debate but in all facets of life it seems like.

I understand the 4-6 argument about LeBron and somewhat agree with your statement Jonny. Although there's also a small problem with that. LeBron is pretty much the only top 10 player of all time who is given praises with reaching the finals. Reaching the finals is not a trophy. If one reaches the finals and loses it's still just another loss. The only thing that makes it a bit more meaningful is that it happens on the biggest stage but in the end it's still only a loss. For some reason LeBron fans are pretty much the only ones who count 'reaching the finals' as an accolade. People who consider Kareem, Magic, Kobe, Wilt, Bird or whoever to be their GOAT pretty much never count 'he made the finals this and that many times'. When it comes to other candidates people count the rings while with LeBron they also want to count finals appearances. That's having two standards and an argument like that does not work with me.

Probably your best video to date that i have watched..

Jabbar is the actually the GOAT. With 3 NCAA titles, 3 Naismith awards, 6 NBA MVP's and 6 NBA titles. No one else on this list has has a career that in any way compares to this guys resume. PERIOD!

Allen Iverson’s defense is a critique that drives me insane. He was the most elite defender of all-time under 6 feet!

I don't think it really hurts Kobe, but any time you're up 3-1 and fail to close the series out, thats a legit gripe. Kobe clearly tried, but Lakers should have been able to win.

true even as an mj fan, we dont count 07 bron loss finals as a dent on his resume, thats actually an achievement!

This comment is late to the game, and there are literally thousands of comments ahead of it...BUT, what this video does a great job in trying to help dispel is this zero-sum game nonsense that has infected sports talk, and many other aspects of culture. If someone disagrees with you, then they are automatically stupid, against you, etc. Thank you, once again, for bringing objectivity to sports talk, and also for reminding people yet again, that if someone disagrees with you, it doesn't invalidate your entire existence.

You hit the nail on the head with both the MJ and LeBron criticisms as they both play into each other ironically.

I definitely think Kobe quit and it was to spite the media so that doesn’t take away from the failure. If anything, isn’t it worse to give up on your team just because the media called you out? Imo that was part of Kobe’s evolution into 08, less care about negative backlash for shooting games (see 2010 finals)

Truth be told, the Goat debate is strictly generational. Everyone has their own goat

Yes honestly this 3 is my GOAT THANK You..🙏🙏

For LeBron, i think the bigger criticism is longevity and how he naturally acrues records because of it. Does he lead all-time in scoring because he's a great scorer, or because he's had so many games to score in?

Bro the fact that people are even looking at rookie seasons and discrediting these players is crazy. I haven’t watched the full video yet, so idk what you’re gonna say about Kobe, but the reason MJ lost in the first round is the same reason Lebron lost in the finals. He played fantastic in the series, but played against some all-time great teams. Pistons and Celtics in the first round for MJ. Warriors and the Spurs for Lebron. This is coming from a Lebron fan, btw.

THANK YOU

My main critiques 1 - "players are more skilled today" (if I shot 8 - 3s a game I could avg at least 6.2 ppg 😂) 2 - now we start counting Finals MVPs??? 3 - these advanced stats 4 - love LeBron but I lost respect for LeBron when he started coasting during the regular season with his 2nd Cleveland stint because he knew he'd make the finals. (i.e. playoff mode)

Anyone critiquing Jordan never saw him play live, either in person or on tv. They never felt what it was like for Jordan to be on live tv.

Love your videos as always but I do think Jordan and LeBron’s insane critiques are on a different level. I personally hear those critiques way more often and almost never hear that critique of Kobe. I am also too young to even remember that series so that could be why I never heard it.

That’s a so great video

Context, context, context

The LeBron 4-6 critique should only really sting if you don't want to admit the East was weak for a stretch of his career. If it wasn't weak and he beat good teams then his Finals record is an underachievement.