That and they don't stay in goddamn coherency.

@@douglewis7946 and a lot of people pick Vet and because the Power Sword is so OP, they play like a Zealot and ignore their sharpshooter role, hopefully tomorrows mini nerf will help

Yeah, nothing I love more seeing on my team than an Ogryn who has his shield out 75%+ of the time or a Psyker who chain casts the surge staff secondary. It makes missions so much easier when large portions of groups are constantly locked down by one or two of your teammates.

Just got 'Inquisitorial Legend' achievement today for finishing all 7 mission types on t4. Less than 2% of players have it on Steam. Only need one more specific action penance on my Zealot and I will have them all done. My group of friends consistently beats t4 over 70% of the time and we find it mostly comes down to sticking together and all of us being in voice chat. We run different combinations of builds all the time as well as builds that are considered 'sub-optimal'. The main thing is just playing with a full team.

@@donmongoose The chain sword needs a little nerf. Seen so mnay people swing into combat and leaving the group. Then I or someone else gets downed; and its all over.

Completely balanced

Ah yes, a fine stategy of the 40th millenia !

While I agree that the power swords are over tuned on vets, It's not the best weapon in the game - it has almost no stagger vs. hordes and highly armored targets. If they rush you and you need to charge the weapon again they will very likely get some hits in or you need to trade space or stamina for time.

@@TheBouregard pre nerf you didn't need stagger vs hordes because the baseline cleave value was overtuned. Also depending on your ranged weapon, you could thin them with both ranged weapons and grenades (which you would get enough off with that trait). The weapon special when activated mitigated the lower performance against highly armored on top of you potentially having a ranged weapon that could handle highly armored targets.

@@TheBouregard Why do u need stagger on not powered power sword tho when everything dies or is on the floor after one swing. You just need to dodge and charge it in 1 second before going ape mode xD

normally a bad ogryn will bowl in, scattering the horde making it harder to keep buffs and take longer to clear. then when elites appear the ogryn has no charge ready

Yep. There's mountains of nuance hidden in the different variations of weapons, and interesting situational use cases to learn for nearly all of it.

I'm fairly certain from my experience in diff 5, Ogryn uppercut (from cleaver knife) can lock down a crusher, though this assumes the crusher is alone. But it can be a great help for an Ogryn to perma stun the 1-2 crusher's while the team cleans up other enemies or focuses down the big boys. So please I'm begging stop yelling at me for not using shield :(

I first found that out when spectating a teammate and was just like "WAIT, THE AXE CAN DO THAT!?" Instantly turned the axe from one of my least liked weapon to my outright favorite knowing that. Most weapon's push-attack tend to be an attack their regular combo lacks, so it's great to know. (Another example is the shovel which gets a fast overhead instead of it's normal sweeping slashes.)

@@banditferretell5231 People were yelling at you for not using shield? that's funny all the comments about ogryn on the steam forums say shield is one of the worst options lol

@@digitalbear8809 Shield "is" the worst for outright damage and it can give someone a terrible case of tunnel vision with how big it is. But steam forums are complete and utter garbage, full of contrarians and people who can't beat difficulty 3. Shield is the best defensive melee not just for ogryn also compared to the entire roster

even showing the prefixes on thier weapon. "Cleaving" vs "Strikedown" would do a lot for this

Was about to comment the same thing. As someone who mainly uses the force sword cuz I like blocking bullets lol, the special on it takes care of armored enemies for me easily. I honestly prefer using the sword special on stuff like crushers than my brain pop.

they both do less pen and are extremely unsafe axe is king for neutral armour pen

@@legaldumper8902 Same. I honestly don't use the brain pop much unless its to take out a sniper or i'm doing that build.

@@legaldumper8902 force sword blocks bullets? Is that only while charged?

@@Monkeypuzzle only if they have the certain blessing

That depends entirely on the weapon though. If you're carrying a lazgun, autogun, shotgun, heavy stubber, etc, then you do zero or close to zero damage vs carapace, forcing you to pull melee to do heavy attacks. Both ranged and melee have options for both. The important thing is understanding the role and characteristics of the weapons you pick. Many of the best crowd clearing weapons in the game happen to be ranged weapons. Ultimately there's more types of threat than any one player can be prepared for, so like Zerk was saying, it's all about team comp.

Not really an understatement. Many of the things are natural/expected, the problem is lacking clear information for breakpoints or new player help. But in general, a player will figure out from in-game and voice lines that armor blocks damage and you can only cleave through a certain amount of meat

Electric staff does the inverse of armor value! It deals significantly more damage to armored units, the higher armor class, the more damage! But it's infested and unarmored damage is lacking, especially on higher difficulties

Funny Xeonzs. That's not how you spell COMBAT SHOVEL!

U can dash/dodge out the animation

It will be nerfed tomorrow!

They dont need to. Theyve bought a lot of 'cheap' youtubers to do it for them. Its called outsourcing and in gaming its fucking awful, imo. Its making me consider starting a YT/Twitch presence as most gamers aren't able t osee or figure out thigs that absolutely shoiuld be in the ghame that woulod increase the games revenue AND players enjoyment. We as humans enjoy mastering something. DT need t orealise this as the core mechanics are there. edit Not that zerkovich is cheap :kisskiss

When I first started out, I was playing Veteran and initially hated the axe. It's comparative lack of crowd control made me feel way too vulnerable. I also saw my job as being to deal with specialist and mid-tier ranged enemies, rather than getting up close with armoured foes, so it's armour piercing ability felt wasted. So I switched back to the catachan sword with it's nice cleave. Later on playing Psyker, I started out the same, keeping a cleave weapon for sake of having better horde defence. Once I unlocked the super powerful crowd clearing staves though, I realised that my melee choice was kind of redundant. I was never really using it for the purpose I'd picked it. The bigger problem for this playstyle, had turned out to be the random straggler enemies and the sneaky ones that got up behind me, distracting me and preventing me from shooting. I tried out the combat axe again, and it worked amazingly well. The really high damage on the light attack was enough to consistently oneshot all mid to low tier enemies. I didn't even need it's anti-armour capabilities since I had brain burst, but the way it quickly and reliably dispatched small groups of enemies without any delay, meant that I was able to have far more up-time with my staff and brain burst. So yeah, there's so much hidden nuance and synergy in this game.

are the maniacs the ragers? Damage on them seems really weird, when I was testing in beta, auto guns would do like half damage to them compared to unarmoured but las guns were actually doing more damage than they did to unarmoured.

Maniacs are the unarmored ragers (dreg) and the muties. The armored rager is all flak armor (scab). Autoguns seem to do really good damage to flesh targets, and less to armor. You should be able to check exact numbers in the attack breakdown when inspecting a weapon.

i did notice the heavy attack seeming less effective

Good against Flak, but bad against Carapace. Although it's raw damage is still high enough that it's not entirely ineffective against it. Works fine to chip in with it during a team fight, but will struggle if you end up separated and forced to solo a pair of crushers, for example.

It also stunlocks you however, lol

@@kubaGR8 true ,but vs certain enemies, you want to lock them down so you team mates can assist you like vs chaos ogryns , berserkers, or even annoying mutant. it is decent weapon .

I'd probably say hit mass because it helps against armored enemies who become more common the higher difficulty level you go. But it mainly depends on your character, build, and what you are using your melee weapon for, if you have a anti armor ranged weapon then getting a sword with cleave to swing through huge hordes is amazing, if you have a horde clear ranged weapon getting an axe for dealing with small groups of armor is your way to go.

Like Zerk was saying in this, it's all about team comp. Neither is outright better, both are good at their own particular role. Ignoring hitmass won't do you any good when a horde swarms you but will make those big guys way easier to deal with. And good cleave won't help you much against an unexpected rush of armoured ragers and maulers, but will make hordes relatively trivial to deal with. If playing for higher difficulties, try to ensure your team has a mix of everything covered, and try to help each other do their respective jobs.

The patch tomorrow is fixing the power sword it currently has unlimited cleave that is why it feels so amazing allowing you to kill entire rows of hordes per swipe.