It only now occurs to me how I have underestimated Haydn... This is brilliant.

Haydn was a genius. Actually he was also a very decent person, by accounts of the time. Richard, I wanted to send you a personal thank you note for your posts, analyses and examples. I deeply appreciate them. sanjosemike

The Orpheus Chamber Orchestra, which plays the excerpts from the syncopated 80th, has no conductor. Imagine that!

5:08 Horn Pro tip: Never accept a Haydn gig without knowing the score /transposition 😂

I have spent the last 30 years trying to get to know all of Haydn's symphonies. Still working on it!

Papa Haydn was such a genius! And so are you, Mr. Atkinson. Your presentations are always such a treat and pleasure. Thank you, again for sharing and teaching so much to us.

Haydn's symphonies are indeed a treasure trove of all kinds of surprising phrasing. The strange thing is that you don't quite notice it always when listening.

Since the minuet was a popular 18th C dance, would love to have seen the chaos on the floor ensue from this particular piece !! 😊

Can’t believe I took this long to subscribe... amazing analysis of motifs with moving blocks of colours to visually aid the analysis, pausing and restarting the music at appropriate times to allow the listener to hear the phrase properly, and all set to the tune of period performances! What a gift you are to all of us!

WOW thank you so much for posting this! Perfectly rendered! Also, hadn't heard Orpheus Chamber Orchestra version of this - they really keep that persistent offbeat in focus, including those two notes you pointed to, sometimes fudged! So, thanks again!

Dear Mr. Atkinson. Thank you so much for your analysis and explanation. They allow me a much deeper understanding and enjoyment of m usic. I didn't appreciate Haydn until I participated in a chorus for a performance of the Seasons. The conductor instructed us that Rimsky Korasakov considered Haydn one of the greatest orchestrators and that Haydn himself did not like the text but still created a great work.

Your videos are very enlightening. I’m not a musicologist nor a proficient musician, but your videos have explained to me how brilliant these composers were. Thank you very much!

I've always felt that nobody could become a good musician without natural rhythm. Rhythm has always been the underrated gem behind all good music.

Ah, Haydn always is a goldmine for rhythmic deviations. We've focused on him quite a lot in a theory class focusing on rhythm, he's very interesting.

Mozart could never have written these! Thanks for a lucid explanation. One of my professors, who did his doctoral dissertation on some aspect of Haydn's string quartets, said once during some analysis that Haydn would throw in extra measures "just to make you cry."

Full of interest for me, as a listener, and amateur player and composer. Many thanks!

Honestly introductions to pieces like these are the best gifts in the world, tnx Richard.

hilarious! and fiendish to play! Beethoven got lots of his ideas about rhythm and playfulness from Haydn. Sometimes though we lose sight of Beethoven's humour because it tends to be a little on the Germanic side: clonking and in-your-face. Haydn, on the other hand, is rather more subtle.

Love this! Keep up the videos!

6:45 I know its an off beat but I can't hear it.

This is such an amazing channel

While composing I try to figure out the musicians reactions during rehearsals and those of the audience. And that's a great bit of fun. Maybe Mr. Haydn did the same? I deeply appreciate the work you're doing. Please keep it up!

Thank you so much for your wonderful in-depth analysis!

Beautiful presentation!

keep bringing videos, they are valuable

Brilliant analysis of brilliant music. The 80th symphony always reminds me of the song "Throw mama from the train, a kiss, a a kiss". Not the music, but the words. It's not until waaay into the phrase that you realize what's going on--if you realize at all. The suspensions also remind me of Schumann, who plays with these rhythmic devices for measure and measures in his piano music. The D major minuet which suddenly turns into a march is always shocking to hear. Another example is the minuet of the string quartet op 20 No 4 ("Allegretto alla zingarese"). If you hear it in 4/4, not only is it not a typically menuetto, but the phrases have oddly many bars. It's only when you force yourself to hear it in 3/4 time--which took me days--that everything falls into place. I would not like to have been on Joseph Haydn's wrong side. Rapier wit.

Thank you so much!! I love your explanation!!! I enjoy watching this very much 🎵🎶😊

Great video!

So glad I found this channel. Thanks :)

Papa Haydn is at it again. ;-D

Stunning ingenuity - and well spotted! I expect conducting the last movement you showed shortens conductors lives! Amazingly well played. On the imaginative side there’s a piano sonata in E flat major (i think) which i will swear is a farmyard drama with a fox getting in among the poultry and lumbering farmers turning up too late on their horses. That - or time to say goodbye to my good friends!

I love Haydn symphonies, and N.80 is one of my favourite.

Thanks for this. I'm late to the Haydn party, but what a composer!

I enjoyed this job mr. Richard Atkinson and here I express my listener who likes Haydn. This "ingenuity" makes it unique. It is the ability to work with less complexity, but exploiting the innumerable possibilities of this. Haydn plays a game with the possible interactions and contrasts of timbres, dynamic contrasts and texture. The soloists here and there; simple rhythms that meet a conception of expressive balance exploring the tonality. Haydn, with that form and formula was for decades dominant in its time. Let's change the idea of ​​a dense tropical forest, through a grass dotted here and there by a stone, a field of flowers, a stream flowing, a cow savoring the breeze, young people playing and birds on their walks. (obs I use translator)

i agree.... i am from eisenstadt the place he worked.... he is such an inspiring composer. if you ever think of visiting haydns workplace you can write me :)

The Finale to No. 80 (1784) has that intense syncopation that we find at the beginning of Mozart No. 25. i (1773). Then Haydn goes off the rails, as usual.

Great videos

Expertly done!

Very interesting, the obvious rhythmic mastery plus Haydn's famous playfulness. I was and am always struck, when I listen to classical Indian music, how that tradition explored and developed rhythm to majestic degrees but never seemed interested in harmony, whereas in the western classical tradition it's the (nearly) exact opposite.

Brilliant, thank you.

Ah, that last example is just so much fun!

I had always preferred the later Mozart symphonies, but many "musical" friends of mine had always expressed their admiration for Haydn's seemingly inexhaustible inventiveness.

Great video. I have for years promoted Haydn as a A list composer. He is also one of the most unpredictable. In my mind he is right there with Mozart.

Heard the trio from symphony 88?, very strange harmonies for the time No 28 1st movement is sublime too

The last excerpt reminds me of Tchaikovsky's Romeo and Julie Overture, with the deceptive syncopation. Very nice video though, interesting to watch. Also act 3 of siegfried please?😊😂

In the first example, I'd say measure 4 is both the last of 1st phrase and first of the 2nd phrase, and similarly later.

Yaas mate! Emiolie ovunque I never know how to explain THOSE, my piano teachers thaught me how to ser them and how to play them but still... A bit hard to do. Try the lady movement of the Schumann piano concerto, as a french horn player I could not catch a note (It was also hard to transpose)

NOW i'm ready for Haydn ;)

What if in the first example you consider all those half notes with slur as an anacrusis, so that the first 11 mesures are 4+4+4, and so on (or 3)...(with the winds entering "out of sync some way...) Just got me thinking about that. Great videos by the way! The 2nd and 3rd examples cracked me up :D

Mon passage préféré : à partir de 2'30 :-)

Hi Richard, I would like to get to know the Haydn Symphonies better. What are your favourites? Grateful for any recommendations!

Great composers will always be underrated in worlds that throw masterpieces away to achieve fame instead of genetically engineering a brain that can hold all of the previous discoveries and more.

Yes, this is actually Fair Use. I point this out because false claims of Fair Use are thrown about on the net (not Atkinson of course) Thank you for being honest and respecting copyright holders. But is this piece in the public domain? Or is it the performance that is copyrighted?

like very much your videos! i would not call it "ingenuity". in my opinion haydn had a great sense of humor which he put inside his scores. specially the 3rd example is written from a funny genius! ;) p.s. will you make some analysis of bach's organ works?

I have to admit I did not fully understand the full nature and brilliance of Haydn. The rhythmic complexity and humor are truly existing and the contrapuntal sections highly inventive and worthy of .more exploration. Truly and quite amazing is his rhythmic ingenuity. Because of the play and the movie Mozart's has eclipsed Haydn's name. Even before that. The phenomenon surrounding his prodigy and early death are captivating from a biographical attraction are truly captivating. His trips to Italy opened his mind to opera and cemented his ability to write such lovely cantabile lines. Haydn wrote for the instruments with such ingenuity Atkinson picked certain works by Haydn that are truly.remark able. I will never mention Mozart's name without knowing Haydn is juxtaposed beside it!!

So how will the conductor tap the beats on these kind of rythms? Would that be confusing if tapping the beats as it is?

The upbeat in that Symphony no. 80 finale feels like the downbeat for so long, that when Haydn starts the closing theme of the exposition on the actual downbeat, it comes as a rhythmic surprise. When it goes back to the syncopation, it feels resolved somehow. Generally in Mozart, Beethoven, and even Haydn, I hear syncopation being used to add tension, not resolve it. So why does the syncopation resolve rhythmic tension in Symphony no. 80?

Too complicated for the average listener, which is a pity. People have to work a bit to get Haydn, but my god the rewards are amazing. Such an economy of material. Brilliant stuff Richard.

I struggle to follow the score while listening. Pls send help. I am very interested in understanding everything you talk about, but it is kind of hard because I am not able to properly follow the examples. How can I overcome this.

sorry If I am asking stupid question but what is exactly upbeat ?

how about the most badass moments from every haydn symphony? :P

Not gonna lie, it took me watching this video *and* following the score to fully realize how deceived I was. Very masterful indeed.

This video is not available?

Я не знаю кто ты, но ты толковый человек! Давай ещё!

Ohh, at first I thought that this video was negative, because in Italian “ingenuità” means “lack of ingenuity” (I’m an Italian speaker)

humour is hugely important in Haydn's music

Hilarious !

Since you didn't include Mozart in this video, I felt compelled to make a video on Mozart's Rhythmic Ingenuities. The man needs some love too! Anyways, here is the video kzfaq.info/get/bejne/hJqdnaeVkpubo30.html

Duple vs. triple phrasing. Probably Beethoven's 9th Symphony 2nd movement is inspired here.

The last example feels like being drunk and getting pushed! :-)

Hi! Love your vídeos and explanations ! But... why do you speak like a robot in The introduction?

Haydn was the most original composer of the Classical period. You can never predict his next musical move. A great genius.

In this recording the tempo of the first movement is much too fast

I wish there are videos like this one in French.

Insane is the word...

Beethoven must have enjoyed Haydn to no end. It's no wonder he wanted to learn from him.

Hilariantes!

Maybe perhaps in times like we are living through right now we need more Haydn. What we get from Haydn is sound music, frequently very inventive, from a sound mind. We can dispense with much of the emotional realism of the romantics as more pushing and shoving and expressions of reaction to the horrible in life are often not suitable antidotes to the real calamity surrounding us. Haydn is as essential to the musical diet as green salads to the human diet. We welcome all efforts to revive interest in this great composer's contributions to music which are so often unimaginably impressive. Thanks and best PS: for some time Haydn and Handel were regarded as English composers though neither were English. There's a lot of jolly old England about both composers' works.

But imagine the conductor...

So you're saying the word hilarious has a different meaning in music as opposed to real life?

Why did this pop up in my youtube? What's funny about it? It's lovely music, though.

This shit ain't hilarious. I brought it up at an open mic and they booed me off stage.

ah the great Haydn - I could throw out 90% of his music and not miss anything - most of it is a big yawn to me