I have a No 4 that was hacked up to resemble a No 5 at some point in it's life. As it was only $100 (back in 1999) I bought it anyway. The shop selling it had it listed as an English Mauser. I couldn't keep a straight face. :)

Yeah, they are the redheaded stepchildren of my Enfield collection, but I still like them :p

My first center fire rifle was /is a number 5 that i got for 32 dollars back in 1968. to this day it has never showed signs of 'wandering zero'. In fact I once took a bull moose at a measured 265 yards. My two shots entered one and a half inches apart on one side of the ribs, and the two bullets were fused together in the skin on the far side.i hope to pass this rifle on to one of my grandsons one day.

"something going right that should have gone wrong,...... is also going wrong...." Life lesson No 47 brought to you by BotR...

I have two that must not be one of the good ones, because my shots wander all the time. I also have this problem on every other rifle I shoot. It's definitely a problem with the rifles.

I have one that when I purchased it would not hold a group under 6 inches even though the rifle was is beautiful shape. I took it to my gun smith and he determined that locking lugs were unevenly bearing on the receiver. Since the bolt head was a 0, we agreed to lap the lugs which fixed all accuracy issues. The bolt head is now a 2, but the gun shoots consistently 2moa with greek hxp 303 and even better with good handloads.

Our friend British Muzzle loaders did an excellent video comparing the No. 5 to the No. 4 a few years back. Despite owning dozens of other Lee Enfields I've only ever owned one No. 5. It had average accuracy but I took it in a Carbine Match one day competing against full race AR 15's and I actually beat a few of them which is a testament to the handiness of this rifle.

Ladies and Gentlemen, this is Rifle number 5 **loud pop beat starts playing**

Shooting tip: when shooting from a rest for testing purposes, place the forend on the rest and move your left hand to the buttstock at your shoulder. Squeezing or relaxing your left hand can give you fine adjustments to the elevation of your point of aim. Safe shooting!

One of my dreams is to walk into a gunshop and see one of these, priced as if it were just a No4 that'd been sporterized.

Generally from my experience they shoot around 4 MOA (8inches out to 200m). You can get - 3MOA (3 inches) at 100m. (I used 180 grain FMJ's from S&B containing 11.7grains of powder). The longest distance i've shot this rifle out too is 300m and yes it still hits a 20x40cm target (of course with some effort). It is certainly a handy target and bush gun.

I find the wandering zero really helps when shooting moving targets....

Excellent topic and I’m really glad you hit on the “every rifle is an individual” point. So few people understand this. They shoot one example of these old rifles with an oftentimes dubious past and think they are experts on the rifle model as a whole. Just today I was reminded of this fact when shooting somebody else’s 91/30. The trigger pull was so unlike my own rifles , so foreign despite being the exact same model that it actually gave me pause. Of course there is most definitely more variance there due to shoddy Soviet refurbishment but the point stands.

Thank you for the video. I’ve been in the market but have admired it for some time. I have seen them all over the map regarding condition so I wouldn’t order one; in person only. I do have a appointment with a older gentleman selling his collection in the beginning of the week, hoping for the best. Thank you for the comprehensive video from across the pond, it helped!

"Close enough for government work." Up until now, I have never heard anyone else use that phrase. I paid my way through university by working at a government liquor store (Canada). Working a till, at the end of shift you counted the cash and balanced the receipts. If I was only out by a few cents, I would say, "Close enough for government work".

My dad had a Canadian Tire store here in Canada back in the 1970s. He bought a ton of these rifles from the Canadian government. They were all Refurbished even damage to the stalks would be repaired neatly with wood. They were greased up and wrapped in wax paper. He sold them for $30. Each.

4t is a top bloke and a true gent with superlative knowledge of all things Enfield.

bravo bloke and chap. very informative, well done.

Inspired me to haul my No. 5 out for a test spin. Hasn't been out of the closet in years. Wasn't sure what to expect as mine had clearly had the lower stock replaced at some time in its life but it was right on target. It'll definitely be getting some more range time soon.

Thanks for sharing interesting topic and gun,great video.

I'm glad I bought one of these in the mid 90's along with a couple of other Enfields. They were a bargain.

I love mine , I have a 1942 mk 3 and a 1945 jungle carbine both are fantastic weapons and I love the history behind them

I have one of these and I LOVE it.

I got a 1/1947 Just love having one. Sweet and in really good condition.

My grandad shot the Jungle Carbine during his military service in Korea, but usually used a Sten gun as he worked in comms and just needed a weapon for self defence, but I can’t remember the years he was in the army, I just know that the L1A1 was just becoming established, as he used them right at the end of his service.

Thank you very much for your 2 rifle comparisons. I am looking to buy a No.5, just not got to it yet.

I had one of these that I picked up at a gun show many years ago. This thing must have been issued because it had all sorts of personalized markings on the stock and it was absolutely beat up. Despite some light pitting in the rifling, it shot relatively accurately.

Every time you bring up Frankenrifle, you make me sad I can't get one in the States, even if they aren't the greatest rifles out of the box

I have just got one ,looking forward to getting on the range

Mine was made in Dec '47. It's my favourite rifle. It fires good groups out to 300 (my range doesn't go any further).

Great info. Thanks.

After initially “zeroing “ my mark five I’ve never touched it since… Mostly shoot steel plates at 100 yards. Seems like it’s always on definitely good enough for government work.This week I’ll try some paper see how it actually groups... I have a short video shooting steel at 100 yards… I reload mostly for the 303 and one thing when you shoot the shoulder gets blown forward about 30 to 40 thousandths... when I resize I just set the shoulder back about 2 thousandths ...Fits the loose chambers much better and improves accuracy quite a bit.

When confronted with SS troops, recoil Is the least of your concerns.

I acquired my No. 5 back in the 1980s. I have never really shot the rifle from a bench and other than maybe one box of factory loads all my shooting with the rifle have been with hand-loaded cast bullets at approximately 2,000 ft/sec. It has always shot satisfactorily.

Got my 100% matching #5 for $250 bucks, only issue was the rear sight was removed to make way for a scope. Ive gotten it back to original configuration minus the rear sight which im waiting on to arrive from across the pond. By far my favorite to shoot, and to be honest I really love holding it with love and just looking at it for that matter. Next on the list is a M1 Garand and M1 Carbine.

Wieder ein sehr interessantes Video. Danke :-)

Proper bloke this one innit

I never had a problem with wandering zero on mine, its accuracy was perfectly acceptable for a service rifle and placed groups only a little larger than my M1903A3 Springfield out to 200 yards. Wish I still had it, but tight times during college saw it sold off. I still remember the serial number & manufacturing date/arsenal, if I ever come across it again I won't hesitate to buy it back. (Btw, that recoil is no joke lol!)

I owned a No5 MkI years ago and sold it before I knew any better. It was in unissued condition and, as I recall, was reasonably accurate at 100 yards. I would really like to get another some day. I watched another YT video recently that discussed the wandering zero. This fellow had an interesting take on this notion. Her noted the substantially stiffer recoil the No5 produces compared to the No4 and suggested that this "problem" had more to do with the shooter developing a flinch after shooting it for a while. This seems very plausible to me because I still remember a heavily bruised right shoulder after an extended outing with that gun. So, one more theory to add to the pile, as good as any, I suppose.

“Their lively girls”. I am so stealing this lol.

Trigger guard is the biggest culprit for most Lee Enfield shifting point of impact and poor groupings. The No. 4 Mk 2 (1949) addressed this and is the rifle to get if you want this problem fixed.

It would be interesting to see a comparison between the No. 5 and the Russian M38 or M44. I bet they will both shoot roughly the same sized groups.

The perfect Bloke post- debunk a myth and have things take an unexpected turn. (Personally I think the wandering zero is due to improper grounding)

I have a Gibbs Rifle company reworked Jungle Carbine and it shoots well. Iron sites and kicks like a mule but decent groups out to 100 yards... fun gun to shoot

I bought one 30+ years ($100), searched and found an original Bayonet. I wanted Jungle Carbine to round out a Firearms Display with a #4 & # 4T I only fired the Jungle Carbine once, BRUTAL RECOIL, compared to Standard, #4 or 1903 Springfield.l Sold it for $200 and was happy to get rid of it. I like the way it looks with the Short Barrel and Flash Hider,.....still like the looks. If only could find Re Barreled in a lighter Cartridge...maybe .308 Watching him and seeing the Recoil and the Barrel rising reminds why I sold it, it was not a fun day the Range. I often wondered about the Cut Down 1903 Springfield used in Panama Canal Zone, they use to be cheap at Gun Show, like $250....I don't see anymore

We had one of these in the shop; I of course slobbered over it every time I thought the boss wasn't looking, but never got sold because anyone who would be interested in the thing thought that it would be a bastard to shoot due to the recoil and flash, plus the whole wandering zero myth. One wonders if a downloaded cartidge would make this an excellent hundred yard rifle and make it a bit nicer to shoot.

Damn Bloke, you seemed all choked up and nervous the whole video. 😄 Was your boss there or a hot woman? Not your usual perky, smooth, confident self.

I bought a cheap nast looking carbine for $50 in 1991. I simply saw it never looked just paid at a gun show. Total surprise. It wasnt a No 5. It was actually a civvie conversion with a No 5 flash suppressor on a 7.62 NATO barrel sprtorised front stock. As there was about 8 different No 5 prototypes trialled by Lithgow Small arms, and I am in Australia, it was $50 buy it before anyone say I'll take that lol. It was a damn good rifle. I always thought a good Lee Enfield conversion would be in 5.56 running on M16 mags.

a problem that can affect the no5 is that the flash guard is a casting / forging that is often not true to the bore axcess . although this is not as big a problem as the crowning on the barrel , it is still an influence on the trajectory of the projectile . it has to be a tight fit on the barrel & machined true to the bore .

Great bloke shooting a epic rifle! Picking up my first no5 in a few days, that is if it checks out as legit. Whats a few inches among friends...

Do you think ammo quality could have been an issue?

I have one of these, and the rear peep sight is soooooooooooooooo big, no wonder people claim it has a wandering zero. But at close range in the jungle, a wide open peep sight was quick to use.

Bloke, the explanation version I have read is slightly different to your 'not wanting to make millions of No4s obsolete', it was 'the Army didn't want a new bolt-action, they wanted a semi-auto (like everyone else), so there was no way the No 5 was NOT going to have a problem'. The two aren't mutually exclusive, of course :) I can readily imagine both views being held by different groups.

just a thought , when all the stocking issues have been seen to , you might want to check that the flash hider is machined true to the bore access . Although this will not have as profound as a incorrect crowning of the barrel , it will still have a negative affect

I cut down the barrel of a Mark 4 #2 with a questionable barrel. After shortening the barrel to 20" I discovered that the worn rifling was at tge end of the barrel. The heavy barrel stiffened consiserably by cutting off 5.5" which greatly improved the accuracy. My "Jungle Carbine is not lightened except for cutting tge barrel and the front stock.

I have a no5 mk1 on the way. But...I also have a no1 mk3. That rifle is intensely accurate. I am glad I have my no1. I don't like the aesthetics of the no4. Even though it is technically better. I look forward to my jungle carbine.

Most of the examples of wondering zero or "I put x number of boxes of shells through it and it still won't zero" are generally attributable to shooters who only "think" that they know how to zero the rifle. Or they forget to check screws, mounts, rings, etc. for things that have worked loose.

Oh what a Lovely Vid Sir :-D Now i had to test my own No5 Mk1. Have not shoot it in a long Time (6 to 12 months or so).

That shooting table looks really hard. Old bones ache just looking at it.

The good Ole No 4 mk 1 shoots good especially if it's a heap of junk. My No 4 had a pitted 2 groove barrel from muzzle to breach. The barrel rattled in the stock nothing was done to make it more accurate other than screwing it together. I shot it into the highest grade with it but like any 2 groove barrel one day it stopped shooting. One week I got a master grade score next time I got a B grade score the next time I got a D grade score the thing has not been shot since and won't be shot till it gets a new barrel. I've seen a No4 in perfect condition shoot ordinary. It is not so much the condition it's in but the love you give it and then it dies.

smashing!

Good job loving dear

Classic observation "when something that is supposed go wrong goes right that is wrong"

Mine starts to shoot allover when it gets really hot. No wood touching anywhere in the forend or hand guard except the Knox form. I know IV8888 had some wondering too when they got theirs hot. It's fine if I just take a few shots with it. But went through almost 30 consecutive rounds and it was all over.

Im glad i bought mine in Australia back before they got stupidly expensive!

6:35 Hear that? I bet a German did.

I use a 25 yard pistol target at 100 m to shoot at. It looks about the same width as the front sight.

I have heard so many things, I think they just had a larger MOA then people realized, and each rifle was so variable in stock and ammo preferences that frankly each rifle must be tweaked to shoot decently.

From 0 to 10 what grade would you give to this rifle? And would you use it on a hunt or in combat?

Saw one of these go for 950AUD (540GBP, 700USD). Sad to say I did not get it.

Ahh, yes. The rifle #5, the first full powered rifle I ever fired. I graduated from an M1 carbine to this and nearly knocked myself to the ground trying to shoot it standing up. The fun times a 13 year old kid can have with a really light .303 rifle. That rifle is what got me started on my enjoyment of recoil. When people I know complain about the kick from a Mosin or something similar, I tend to simply laugh at them for not knowing how to handle the recoil. Since that first standing shot almost knocked me over, I've learned quite a bit about how to handle the recoil from stuff like this. What will really get my goat is when I hear people complaining about how much 5.56 kicks, they just don't understand what recoil is. Also, that little #5 held the 100 yard group record in the collection until an AR 15 in 6.8 spc usurped it a couple of years back (must be one of the 'good ones'), but at least the #5 is still more reliable, that 6.8 is very picky about feeding and we have yet to remedy that. It's not really the rifle's fault either, it's simply an issue of us (my dad and I) trying to build something semi-'unique', we are the only people I know of crazy enough to build a 6.8 spc using an upper with a fixed carry handle (a C-7 type upper, AKA an A2 with A1 sights). If we could get that reliability to something like 90% in stead of 65-75%, we'd be happy. It's all down to finding a magazine/cartridge length combo that will feed properly.

I always thought the No.5 would be something Jeff Cooper would like.

Nice I got mine 2 year ago for $400 Australian dollars it's a ROF 9/45 in the R200 serial number range

I guess you will need to start getting people to send you all the jungle carbines you can get for a wider sample size. Ya know, for science.

The bell end is not a flash eliminator it is a bell, I have fired a few rounds down a Mk V. I believe that the bell nose was to reduce foliage movement and to have the enemy not know from which direction, because it was a boom not a crack.

can i ask you why you would want to shoot prone instead of off a bench ? shooting off a bench is going to hurt less.

Yes actually! I have a No.4 mk2 conversation here in the states, barrel dated 42, I’ll have to look but if I’m not mistaken it is marked as a mk1*2. I’ll try to remember to bring it out of the safe and snap photo’s of her markings... she’s definitely “one of the good ones” hahaha

Australia also was making this rifle at the Lithgow factory on the Mk III model using the brass butt plate. It wasn't called the Jungle Carbine. That was an American Importer in the 60's that marketed that name. The original models being made in 1944-1947 was for Paratroopers and other units in the Pacific. If you see a Lithgow MK III made in 1944. It was also part of that rush to make a carbine model.

I have a No5 mk 1 (f) 1/47 ZXXXX in real nice condition

Crazy zero nice looking rifle though

Great

There are No1's and No4's that shoot better or worse than others - no different to No5's. Follow the Armourers bedding and stocking up advice for the No5, you should have better results - I did mine years ago. Cheers!

Suprised the buttpad is still soft, wonderful rifle and presentation.

Why the flash suppressor/hider (if that's what it is)? Watching the shots in this video, I see muzzle flash about 4-5 inches past the end of the rifle.

I'm curious, would love to see 5 round grouping at 100m, prone without a support rest on various marks of Lee Enfields. For comparison back in my army days, on iron sights with an SA80 A1, I usually got a grouping of between 80 and 90mm.

I wonder how well the Gibbs jungle carbine shoots.

"tis a pity you got a Vindaloo No5... that ruddy wood screw in the foreend and the further hollowed out bolt knob tell that tale. Still, whilst not as pretty as the non-Indian refurbed ones, they are still a No5! I had at one point in my collecting No5 serial AC6349 - a Fazakerley manufactured late in '47 AFTER the supposed end of production - theory has it this was to fulfil some orders for those pesky colonials (most likely mine came from Fiji). Shot groups every bit as good as a Savage No4, but nowhere near as good as LB's and Faz/Maltby/Shirley No4's. I also had an RFI refurb like yours, and it shot like a shotgun firing slugs out of a krummlauf barrel :) It was though IMMACULATE, apart from the dreaded wood screw and the Indian reblue over a poor scrub.

Could a modern bedding help the "bad" rifle? I would hate to have your ammo budget.

Like numero 500! God bless ARRSE.

Hi, Was there ever a variation tested & introduced into service, such as the Model 5, Mk - T, an equivalent of the Model 4, Mk 1 - T, snipers-rifle version? I have seen an SMLE, Model 5, Mk 1 with a small x4 Telescopic-sight mounted in place of the regular metallic-sights. So ever since, I’ve. always wondered if this had been either an owner’s individual, custom-made modification, previously made to their own preference or else it was a proper factory-made variant? I wondered if you might know, as BritishMuzzleLoaders wasn’t aware that such an official Royal Small Arms model had ever been manufactured & issued for UK or Commonwealth Forces’ specialist/sniper use! Thanks 🙏🏼

the cutout, at the very beginning is for the loading purpose like the k98 ...in german it's called "Daumenloch" freely translated you could call it "thumb hole"

My No. 5 is the loudest rifle I own by far and close to the loudest I've ever heard. The muzzle report is so bad I don't like taking it to ranges to shoot. Mine does, however, seem to shoot nice and square.

I'd suggest shooting it through a rifle vise to put the rumour to bed. Rifle defect or shooter movement due to power and rifle length.

i feel like someone needs to start producing high quality reproductions of the full series of lee-enfield rifles. assuming ther isn't already a company doing this.

I own one and its a solid 3 MOA gun at 100m (probably 2 MOA in the hands of a better shot). Really happy with it (the trigger pull is amazing) and I dont find the recoil to be all that bad. K98k is much worse IMO even though it is a heavier rifle.

Is it a flash hider, or was it to project the blast and noise away from the firer and anyone either side of him.

If the stock is touching the barrel I would imagine that the draws of the stock are crushed. I own a No.5 like that and I still need to do some woodworking to get it fixed so I can shoot it. I think with the No.5's shorter stock is even easier to damage the draws when you remove the stock. If anyone owns an Enfield, please don't grab the muzzle end of the stock and pull down; push the stock away from the action.

Off Topic - What shooting jacket are you sporting?

I would love one of these for shooting roe in dense plantations that we have up here in Scotland but i`m not sure what availability of hunting ammo is.

Wotcha Cor blimey it's a sawn off No4 innit guv. My groups halved at 100m in my No4 when I went to handloaded 174gr SMK from 180 gr S&B. The lead based bullets are detrimental to accuracy.