#313

Рет қаралды 13,176

Күн бұрын

In this insightful interview with Joscha Bach, a cognitive scientist and AI researcher, Vance explores various topics ranging from personal experiences to parenting challenges and the importance of community. They delve into the complexities of the network state, and the societal implications of rapid cannabis proliferation. Joscha Bach shares his observations on the pressures faced by parents, the impact of modern life on parenting, and the value of presence and interaction in nurturing children. They discuss the use of drugs like SSRIs as an attempt to adapt to an overwhelming life and the consequences on one's mindset.
The conversation also revolves around finding meaning and hope in a world that may seem devoid of purpose. Joscha Bach highlights the significance of creative endeavors and building connections within communities as pathways to personal fulfillment. The interview concludes with a mention of Joscha Bach's use of Twitter as an interactive notebook and his KZfaq channel featuring thought-provoking presentations.
Website: bach.ai/
Twtter: Plinz?s=20
“The Egg by Andy Weir” : • The Egg - A Short Story
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0:00 - Start
2:10 - Drug addiction and homelessness
21:50 - The Meaning Crisis
29:30 - Role of Religion
36:39 - Woke Culture
45:40 - We are in a revolution
48:51 - Where to live during revolution
58:45 - Depression & Anxiety
1:05:14 - Children are lonely
1:07:30 - Why people take drugs
10:10:01 - How to replace religion

Пікірлер: 96

@kirktown2046 Жыл бұрын

Big Joscha Bach fanboy, easily the most salient and intelligent person I've ever had the pleasure of listening to. I've had a pretty hard time adjusting to modern life, having been born in the Ukraine during the USSR and fled the US... My brother growing up in the east coast, myself on the west... Father was tortured by the KGB and became a drug addict, and I was a nerd with no other nerds in my family. American teachers didn't make sense, the Slavic world view of my parents didn't make sense, and, really, almost nobody made sense. I've had heroes and role models from Sagan to Armstrong, but in ~35 years Bach is the very first person that has withstood my bullshit sniffer from head to toe. But I still wish I were participating in something larger or that I could share my perspective with more people. It's just so challenging to find a way to do that for people like me.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

Sounds like you had a highly formative life that is very different from my bucolic childhood There are more like him in the sense of being highly intelligent and not attempting to use manipulation to climb the social hierarchy. It is just harder to find. If you have some technical abilities you may find more people like yourself as you go higher up the graph of technical competence.

@nipsonanomimata Жыл бұрын

Kirk, many of us non-belongers share the same sentiment as you. I wish you and others like us the best. Much love.

@siddg1463 Жыл бұрын

Listening to Joscha makes me feel less lonely, he discusses and articulates things that interest me but bores the average person

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

He has a pretty loyal following.

@dannywest8843 11 ай бұрын

@@VanceCrowePodcast 🖖

@elizpingree Жыл бұрын

I needed Joscha today!

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

he has a way of making you think in a totally different way!

@rasmithid Жыл бұрын

@sarahcanuto2947 Жыл бұрын

I'm Brazilian, and it's amazing that knowledge has no physical barriers, and is universal. thank you for sharing knowledge and wisdom, this is the most valuable thing 👏🏻

@rainking50 9 ай бұрын

I deeply agree, Sarah. I work with many young Brazilian leaders. Eles sempre compartilham as melhores músicas comigo. :) Are there any Brazilian podcasts/thinkers you recommend?

@eoeo92i2b2bx Жыл бұрын

Joscha Bach...if I don't get my hit of his clear and concise thinking for a while, I am getting withdrawal symptoms. The perfect antidote to pop culture, television, and all the idiocy that surrounds us most of the time.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

Agreed I call him up to do these when I need a dose.

@joelsacrafamilia9833 Жыл бұрын

The number of times I've watched your previous episode with him is crazy, im gald you've made another one with him.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

I love hearing this - I've listened to it multiple times as well.

@MoominPa 10 ай бұрын

Joscha is so right about the situation in San Francisco! I wish San Francisco government would listen to Joscha. Unfortunately they don’t have intellectual capacity to understand the problem or their interests are too misaligned with ours. So said.

@sunnyinvladivostok Жыл бұрын

conversation was a blast to listen to, thank you

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

That's nice to hear, he is such an amazing mind

@joelsacrafamilia9833 Жыл бұрын

I’ve just started reading 3 body problem after listening to your previous episode.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

I also talked about 3-Body Problem with another brilliant guy Isaac Amon kzfaq.info/get/bejne/rLqPntll0q_Vhqc.html

@giveadoggyabone1 11 ай бұрын

I think he's more than reasonably smart.

@drmedwuast Жыл бұрын

You two are great together

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

That is nice to hear I really enjoy talking with him

@harisusman6096 Жыл бұрын

Really great. I always love their conversations. Haven’t missed one since the beginning of covid.

@michaelwalsh9920 Жыл бұрын

JB your insight is infinite. Looks like you are Colorado bound. Thank you both for a grounded discussion.

@matthewnicholson2699 Жыл бұрын

Joshua is one of the most all-encompassing intelligent beings on the planet

@JuergenRarey1 Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I totally enjoyed 👍🙏

@ashhempsall9803 Жыл бұрын

Always a pleasure to hear Bach . Thanks too to genial host Crowe

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

I like being called genial. That's nice.

@petebellini1511 Жыл бұрын

Great conversation! I watch anything opportunity to listen to Joscha. One of the most enlightened and refreshing minds of our time. I appreciate his ability to articulate his thoughts on a multitude of subjects. However, I wish he would be in dialogue with a professional, informed theologian. He has unique insights on religious issues (esp. Christian), but from my standpoint I can tell he is not really informed on its body of literature, doctrine, history, and major theologians. This neglect was obvious in this podcast (both Joscha and the host), which is quite typical today to create strawmen arguments on this subject. I would love to have a conversation with Joscha on the subject. And I am sure he would be open to it. He is so humble even as brilliant as he is.

@DEBO5 Жыл бұрын

Uh no. Joscha says that religion is a type of mind virus installed on the operating system of the human brain (and I agree with him).

@MWileY-nj1yb Жыл бұрын

Thank you so much Vance! I love your style and I look forward to seeing more.

@steveruqus2680 5 ай бұрын

I've watched several interviews with @JoschaBach and many results are the same. Not bad, but similar. Great job creating something fresh and unique. High ROI.

@VanceCrowePodcast 4 ай бұрын

Wow, thank you!

@kirktown2046 Жыл бұрын

On the topic of Woke... Before Woke ever became a popular term on twitter... Or before Twitter even existed, I think. Southern California in teenagers in the 2000's in my school district used woke to describe teenagers that were emotionally mature for their age. It had little to do with specific social issues, but if you were hung up on something like lgbt, you couldn't possibly be woke. When Bo Burnham first came out on KZfaq in its infancy, we were calling him woke. It was more about self-awareness and self-responsibility than anything else, not blaming your parents or other people for your problems. It really felt like our term got hijacked and warped into something completely different.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

Oh that is super interesting- I vaguely remember that it wasn’t always a slur or a ideological designation. Seems like it might be one of those “geeks, mops and sociopath” concepts that once the mops got in it changed the meaning

@itsdavidmora 10 ай бұрын

A real gift to listen to. Thank you both for creating this!

@VanceCrowePodcast Ай бұрын

Just published a new one - my favorite so far!

@itsdavidmora Ай бұрын

@@VanceCrowePodcast Thanks, I'll check it out!

@connorp5142 Жыл бұрын

I’ve never run into a conversation with Joscha where I feel he is missing some key points until this one. When talking about addiction I agree that what causes it is a lack of meaning but I think finding purpose/meaning is not the solution to addiction. You can embed yourself in community family, career, hobbies, charitable work etc. but there is something physiological that contributes to addiction that we just don’t understand on a scientific level yet. Even though addiction does stem from a lack of meaning, for some finding that meaning doesn’t necessarily mean you are free from addiction. Also there were a couple small points he mentioned that I took issue with. The fact that most people that use hard drugs come off it on their own and the fact that giving out clean needles is a bad thing for a government to do. I think both of these takes are wrong and it’d be interesting to hear others opinions. Joscha is the most brilliant human I’ve ever had the privilege to listen to and I’m making this comment because this is the first time I think his logic has some flaws in regards to addiction.

@VanceCrowePodcast 11 ай бұрын

I am sure that he would actually appreciate feedback on his points. maybe he will see this.

@connorp5142 11 ай бұрын

@@VanceCrowePodcast I hope so. What are your opinions on this topic and Joscha’s take?

@VanceCrowePodcast 11 ай бұрын

@@connorp5142 I think addiction is harder to explain than lack of community and purpose. There are certain sensations that have a hold over people. Most addictions are actually accepted by your community. I think he is correct that the reason it got out of control was due to lack of community but I think the speed of information has caused people to feel disillusioned, and the lack of hope due to the endless printing of money is also causing a lot of this. Some people just can't keep up on the treadmill.

@dwsel 11 ай бұрын

I agree with you on this one on alcohol. First I was really surprised by the organic quality of this interview and how much I relate to these challenges and his ways of thinking due to living in the nearby country and being somewhat autistic myself (but never diagnosed). As for the alcohol it was never prohibited from me, I can relate to being allowed to "take a small sip" if I wanted to or having winemaking as a hobby while I was 15. The thing I've noticed I don't really like alcohol for the same reasons stated in this interview - it really made me feel bad and instantly sleepy, so it didn't become really a thing for me. Now I know it's related to low metabolism of histamine from the food + alcohol and possibly lower alcohol metabolism (need to check polymorphisms on ALDH1x and ALDH2, but currently not a priority). The thing is I have in my near environment people who overuse alcohol, and it's always related to big tolerance to alcohol, it's like they can ingest a lot and remain unfazed. My common sense says it's like their pleasure receptors kick in much earlier then they got bad effects from the drinking. For me it's the other way around - bad effects are greater then "nice ones". If I overburden myself and feel that lack of purpose I go into depression myself, but they in the same circumstances choose to drink for several days in the row, before the bad effects are starting to kick in. And yes, we're in the same community, possibly sharing a lot of goals and responsibilities, and they go through it completely differently.

@oanasanzianamarian9798 10 ай бұрын

I wanted to say exactly what @connorp5142 said, that there's some dissonance in the relationship between addiction and meaning, and I think that's the failure to factor in the experience of mental or physical pain and the effectiveness of certain substances or behaviours to relieve it. Lack of meaning and belonging is certainly painful, and it is logical to find the most reliable ways to relieve that pain. It's very easy to disagree with the notion of punishing people who transgress social and property-based contracts due to being in the state of craving simply because there is overwhelming evidence that punishment does not work. Punishment heightens the presence of shame, which itself is an adaptive response, shame being the sense not that I did something wrong but that I am fundamentally wrong, which has the adaptive potential to induce a kind of hope, especially in childhood, when many of these patterns are established, i.e. it's not my parents or the adult world that is wrong, inconsistent, unreliable--that would be too dangerous to acknowledge, since I depend on those adults for my survival--it's I who is wrong, and that gives me hope because I can strive to "become good," so there is something to live for and work towards. The other thing that seems to be missing from the conversation is any discussion of possibilities for systemic change. If the structure of San Francisco is such that drug markets easily find a foothold, then a considerable factor is ease of access and any structural corruption that supports these networks. As we all experience existential pain at some stages, and certainly other kinds of pain, loss of relationships, opportunities, etc, we are all vulnerable (and this is obvious now with increased digital device-based addiction), but lack of easy access can prevent drugs becoming the means by which we choose to cope with pain.

@Beesmakelifegoo 6 ай бұрын

So insightful. appreciate this meaningful conversation. Very touching. I feel so inspired to share this. Thank you.

@whitneymacdonald4396 9 ай бұрын

I wish Joscha would read Rudolf Steiner and share his thoughts on his work. I guess, in general, I wish his work were more well-known. It seems most people don't want to put the effort in to understand Steiner yet he had so much to offer for our understanding of the world today.

@soyginna Жыл бұрын

I will listen this episode again! Great interviewer too!

@Fabrikoooo 10 ай бұрын

In technical areas is the scientific method that determinate the structure through priorities and efficiency. And for that to work globally, you need people that understand that method in every day life.

@0x0abb 11 ай бұрын

12:43 so true. People think I’m heartless when I tell them that is not the way to solve this problem- people just want I feel good about themselves and think that as long as they voiced their opinion and defended the homeless, that’s enough for them. They go back to their world and forget about it.

@luciano1142 11 ай бұрын

Excellent

@JimMcHugsU 10 ай бұрын

Joscha has attained nerdvana. ❤

@musokofe Жыл бұрын

thank you for this!

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

You're welcome!

@Telencephelon 10 ай бұрын

1:06:45 "we didn't have kids till I was nearly 40"..... Jaw drop

@teiuq Жыл бұрын

❤ Thanks to both of you. Tasty buffet 😊.

@Shaktipat6 11 ай бұрын

🙏 🔥 🌀

@JuergenRarey1 Жыл бұрын

Thank you, I totally enjoyed the podcast... 😮 Kindergarden, I managed to stop them sending me after the first day 😂😂😂 Lego and German "Schulfunk" kept me alive ....

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

What is schulfunk

@JuergenRarey1 Жыл бұрын

@@VanceCrowePodcast You would find it at Wikipedia. It is a German government radio broadcast for schools covering a wide range of topics. For a child in the 50s and 60s, one of the few sources about the world other than books. The library had a strict separation of children and grown-up books but sometimes I could hide a "real" book between the decoys :-) I envy the children of the 3rd millennium, the whole world at their fingertips....

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

@@JuergenRarey1 I’m glad I asked this has a lot more color than wikipedia

@JuergenRarey1 Жыл бұрын

@@VanceCrowePodcast 🤣which I just mentioned for sake of credibility 🙂 BTW: I totally enjoyed this podcast and will recommend it. When you discussed the societal implications of Cannabis, you should have included the world-wide problem of how to pacify young males. I was 14 in 68 and it saved me from alcohol and allowed me to tolerate boring high-school classes. I stopped the moment I started my chemistry study. Never had a fight as a teen. Here in Thailand the boys stay at the temple as monks for a few months and that also helps. Also, I am a little skeptical about the idea that having children generates a multi-generational identity. Children are more a product of their peers than their parents. I have been teaching block classes of 2 months - 8 hours a day to MSc. students for many years and feel like I could copy a lot of my code into their hardware and could propagate my essence better than with physical offspring. (rareyprocessdevelopment.wordpress.com/)

@drmedwuast Жыл бұрын

start; 2:14

@computerization Жыл бұрын

Really great podcast, what was the anime show that Joscha was talking about?

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

Hayao Miyazaki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Princess_Mononoke

@ameremortal Жыл бұрын

Hey Vance, the last timestamp link is broken in your description. Also, what a great guest.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

Ok I made a change and it looks like it is working. Thanks for the heads up.

@deborahhebblethwaite1865 Ай бұрын

🙏🙏🙏🇨🇦

@siroutrage1045 2 ай бұрын

29:00

@unreactive Жыл бұрын

If anyone wonders, Joscha's favorite anime is Porco Rosso.

@lukasmolnar 10 ай бұрын

13:50 homeless - they can’t afford house - agree upon the area but it in different words - environment shapes behaviour- but you are projecting here your values into them. We all do this. But back to homeless there are some which are just don’t want to be a part of this “sick” society from their pov i encountered. And from my POV also you don’t blame individuals - bc society is not reinforced helping you. In a RBE described by Fresco.

@anem0nia Жыл бұрын

The plane seating system as an analogy for the class system is excellent, except you forgot the most important (if not important, than the most populous) - the people that have never been on a plane and could not afford an Economy Class ticket even if they needed to.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

Yea it struck me as pretty accurate as well.

@etfacetimehome 2 ай бұрын

1:07:57

@etfacetimehome 2 ай бұрын

1:07:15

@fabiankempazo7055 10 ай бұрын

to me it always sounds funny how americans pronounce Joscha Bach :D If I didn't know the guy and did not know how he is spelled I would have thought they speak of a guy called "Yushabak" :D btw: I am also German :D

@jonathanedwardgibson Жыл бұрын

I’m old enough to remember the original woke-moment as Lt Uhura kisses Captain Kirk.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

A lieutenant kissing a captain!?!?

@andybaldman Жыл бұрын

Interesting how this was basically a conservative talk radio show. The host kept trying to put standardconservative talking points in front of Joscha, but he never took the bait, and always gave thoughtful answers.

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

That's an interesting critique. I'll listen back to it and see if I can hear it now that you mention it. I would be embarrassed if you are correct.

@jemarcot Жыл бұрын

@@VanceCrowePodcast don’t worry, they are not correct.

@JH-ji6cj Жыл бұрын

59:30 Rolling Stones _Mother's Little Helper_ Not new. Also, Joscha and his silence after the discussion of _Networking Bros_ community stuff is telling. I do think it's a hard problem between moral value and looking to get the best *value* as ROI from community because its so easy to get caught up in optimization thinking. I just felt there was a rift between Joscha trying to describe his moral value of not seeing every interaction tgrough that lens, and the host reflecting the opposite view (whereas it was levels of discreetness in overt networking between the cities he described and even includes how he distinguishes relational community efforts like parent groups etc ....as in, more about optimal parenting practices or idealogical cohesiveness).

@VanceCrowePodcast 11 ай бұрын

Oh I like reading this - I thought Joscha and I had similar views on the networking.

@goodnatureart 9 ай бұрын

Bach has a confused view of life if compassion is a problem. House everyone. Create a health care system that is not in a market. It is a systemic response to treating people as trash.

@youtubelearning2990 6 ай бұрын

You don’t find meaning at church, you find community at church. The church has always been about community since day one. You’re right, but you’re making it seem like it wasn’t the original intent. Then, the story you mentioned in the Bible about Lot and his daughters wasn’t him offering them up to the mob. It was him basically saying, “Yeah right! I won’t give up these people that you want me to bring out.” He presented them with a crazy proposal that would never happen. So much goes into understanding the words in the Bible. It is an ancient text, and so requires much more out of a person to understand.

@JoshGodwinArt 4 ай бұрын

or you just don't want to face the fact that what was considered acceptable by the old testament god is abhorrent.

@roccoapp00 Жыл бұрын

Not that bright of an interviewer, but a great interviewer, asked right questions

@VanceCrowePodcast 11 ай бұрын

Not that bright- meaning my absorption of what he was saying or my commentary was not good- and yet still asked the right questions.... I think I agree.

@Hecarim420 Жыл бұрын

ツ

@Casevil669 Жыл бұрын

I love Joscha, thanks for posting. But I can't freaking unsee that this camera and light angle make his eyes look reptilian lmao

@VanceCrowePodcast Жыл бұрын

hahaha he doesn't seem to care about these things.

@whitneymacdonald4396 9 ай бұрын

I can't decide if Vance is just letting him talk or can't keep up with the depth of what Joscha is saying. There are so many questions I find myself wishing he would ask. It seems as though Joscha is pausing to allow questions that don't ever come, then just keeps talking.