Came from mid 8th edition, I had gotten tired of the hyper-lethality, power gaming, meta-chasing, and legions of grey. I had a buddy who had been in for over a decade, he told me right away what 30K was about and what was typically normal and what wasn't. Told me all the ins and outs of it, templates, armor value, and the rules. But he emphasized, lore accuracy, WYSIWYG, and make it fluffy. I fell in love with 30k and haven't touched 40k since. So while I can't say I'm a long time fan/member of the 30k system. I love and respect it, and believe that people should be allowed in but should have a thorough understanding of what the spirit of 30k is and that it's not a game to be meta-chasing in.
@aphyonmortath83772 жыл бұрын
We had a guy in our area for a while who was big into 30K. i even built up a test list to try out a few games (especially since a bunch of my FW models could be used in 30K). he is gone now, moved away, so we went back to doing what we loved-playing a hybrid version of 3rd-7th edition based around the 5th ed core rules to get away from what 40K became in 8th edition (and has only gotten worse with 9th). the end result is loads of fun games of epic battles in the 41st millennium where the armies behave more like they should thanks to old codexes especially from the 3rd and 4th ed era. The great news is i do not have to give GW any money for the old codexes, rulebook and minis i already own or bought cheep used. i also don't have to worry about them changing the rules.
@knowbody2232 жыл бұрын
amen 👍🏻
@pinoarias86012 жыл бұрын
Ew wysiwyg
@docvaliant7212 жыл бұрын
@@pinoarias8601 agreed
@TheAlterspark2 жыл бұрын
It always amazes me the people who come into a hobby looking to change it vs actually learning about it- what draws such a person to a hobby? And now for something constructive- Macca: can we one day get a video or post about the various decal sheets and what each one means for different armies? I have found some info on unification wars and crusade symbols but not a consistent list or explanation for a lot of the symbols. Thanks in advance!
@tunguskalumberjack99872 жыл бұрын
I’d be really into watching a video (or videos) on the Legion heraldry/insignia transfer sheets, or failing that, just a video about the heraldry/insignia in general. That’s be really interesting, as I only have 4 of the Black Books, so I don’t have pics and explanations for all of the insignia from the various factions.
@radicalgremlin64402 жыл бұрын
I personally like 40ks wild west feel, but I am in the minority that likes making my own stories and crusades with 40k, and it'd lore. I do believe we need to drive others to do better
@HolyknightVader9992 жыл бұрын
I love how their motto for the 30K era is to stop the traitor assault on Terra. If I was there, I'd be leading the assault myself.
@anthonyplayter29812 жыл бұрын
Building Death Guard while listening ;)
@HolyknightVader9992 жыл бұрын
@@anthonyplayter2981 I prefer the Black Legion or the Word Bearers, but Death Guard is a cool choice.
@WarsmithThanatos2 жыл бұрын
But GW is always protective with loyalist space marines. My biggest fear is that they do that in HH 2.0 too. That's what I love about HH. I can play Iron Warriors or World Eaters and not just lose out of the gate against loyalists with there 3ed codex and 5 supplements.
@anthonyplayter29812 жыл бұрын
@@HolyknightVader999 which do you play 30k with?
@Grubnar2 жыл бұрын
"If you can't respect them, why should they respect you?" Perfect!
@falcata912 жыл бұрын
Something funny: at my local GW store, I was the lonely HH player. Suddenly, for a couple of weeks, I have been the weird guy who cares about lore and accuracy in the HH. Everyone else is looking to build broken lists. As a 30k player I want to have fun and to play to enjoy an afternoon. I do not care at all about winning. I trully fear that they are going to turn the HH into something close to the current 40k. The new rules does not help in that sense either.
@jamesespinosa6902 жыл бұрын
Well, never let them forget that you were the lone loyal player.
@stealthvulture55942 жыл бұрын
One great way to control community expectations is through events. If you have it in you to organize one, get a game day sorted out, and give prizes based on: - best in spirit/ favorite opponent -best painted -best army lore (because they are gonna have a lore blurb on their list, tight?) -the ferrus manus award If you have the numbers, do these each for loyalist and traitor. Once you remove incentives from win/loss, the dynamics will start shifting towards the "intended behavior". Also, never run straight up kill missions.
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
They call you weird because you heresy better than them and because they are 40k players ....if you are weird for thinking how you think...surely they are gatekeeping you? they are certainly being authoritarian dictatorial egotistical arseholes if they dont allow lore driven games.... its so funny how in this current climate , putting in the work and understanding the lore because of that ,it puts you at a lower standard than those whos level is ..oh something new and shiny must buy that, oooo the rules are strong ......they are literally the cavemen and you the scientist ...yet they look down on you ..... its funny because people can negate the use of lore or think it changes all the time enough to not even care about it but still play their specific legions,use colour schemes, understand who their opponents are and their motivations .......but still think that that isn't lore ...
@benrobertson92222 жыл бұрын
@@stealthvulture5594 is the ferrus manus award awarded to the player that looses first? If so I love that lmao
@stealthvulture55942 жыл бұрын
@@benrobertson9222 it's the Heresy version of smokin' boots - you got wrecked that day 😆
@kenandersson44212 жыл бұрын
gate keeping does not always equal a bad thing, it is always the reason why that determines that.
@ThePanzerKamph2 жыл бұрын
Onboard to uphold the HH community in Australia as it stands. I was one of those EX 40k players that got into it with Betrayal at Calth. I was nervous about painting to the standard of others in the community. Thankfully I talked to them voices my concerns and they did nothing but encourage me. We spent hours debating lore friendly formations and army structure. If you want to be apart of the Horus Heresy Community they will welcome you and even mentor you with open hearts and hands. This community is worth gatekeeping.
@psychedashell2 жыл бұрын
I’m actually quite enjoying turning my 40k marines and vehicles into 30k pieces. Sad to see some of them become display pieces but considering how many have been display pieces since the day I purchased them it’s no huge loss. My flyers spring to mind…
@Alex-yg5uh2 жыл бұрын
Take note 40K'ers, take note....
@riggsy22272 жыл бұрын
very well said macca me and a couple of mates are currently getting ramped up to get into heresy whilst fleeing 40k 9th ed. at first it was "its ok we will use our current space marines and play the new system to save time and money" but after long nights of listening to lore and discussing our chosen legions amongst ourselves we have already become so immersed that we have all ordered appropriate upgrade sprues and era appropraite marks of armour because we cant stand the idea of half arsing the historical aspect of the game. the whole reason we fell out of love with 9th ed to begin with was things like seeing 30 sanguinary guard in a game in some ungodly combo when having that many in a single pitched battle in the fluff is a rediculous idea. i will do my best to respect your stomping ground as long as i am not assumed to be less passionate simply for not having a ten year legacy with the system. cheers for the videos hopefully the internet will be kind to you for this well balanced opinion :).
@ryanpstephenson2 жыл бұрын
If all 40K players coming over were like this, Heresy would experience another renaissance with more like-minded hobbyists coming on board. Great attitude mate, come on in, there's plenty of room.
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
The passion from you for the system ,we see, comes from your ability to understand why people have passion for it in the first place, that you are holding yourself to certain standards and understand why you are .....as far as im aware ..you're one of us.
@tunguskalumberjack99872 жыл бұрын
Really, perfect. I can get behind this right here.
@rangda_prime2 жыл бұрын
"Centurion! Give this man a detachment and see what he can do!" Welcome aboard!
@tunguskalumberjack99872 жыл бұрын
@@rangda_prime 👍🏻
@bopaintsminis2 жыл бұрын
👏👏👏 This is a great video on protecting your fandom. Maintaining standards is not gatekeeping.
@disgruntled_veteran2 жыл бұрын
I think there will most defiantly be some animosity between old 30k players and new 30k players. The ones who only have played 40k 8th/9th edition will complain about how their system is better and try to convince us that CPs are great (CPs suck!). Older 30k players will care less about tournaments and more about the story of HH and the purity of the game. I think the thing I will hate most about rookies to 30k will be those who try to build lists that milk every advantage, but don't keep to the spirit of the game. I play 30k because I love the lore and the spirit of the game. I've played GW games since '96 and 3rd/4th edition 40k, Fantasy 7th edition, and Horus heresy are my favorites. Horus Heresy is #1!
@johnfett11772 жыл бұрын
I have lurked around the HH community for around 3 or 4 years and your comment is exactly what I see happening. I have an enormous amount of respect for the community and the proper application of gate keeping. 40k has turned into a total mess both gameplay wise and lore wise. I will probably swap over to mainly HH with a more fluffy Alpha legion force and a loyalist force so I can drag my brothers into playing at some point. I hope the current community sticks around and continues to keep HH safe and avoid the same disaster that 40k has suffered.
@disgruntled_veteran2 жыл бұрын
@@johnfett1177 Agreed. I am basically out of 40k these days. My friends and I play 3/4th edition together sometimes, but I hate the 8th/9th changes and power creeps. Remember in 8th when people built forces with minimum troops numbers so they can spam units for more CPs and smite? Ridiculous.
@combatwombat21342 жыл бұрын
On the contrary, as a frequent 9th player, my experience almost to an individual has been excitement and eagerness to play a system that is more in depth, less bloated and with next to no "gotcha!" moments. Please don't misunderstand the wave of support for the upcoming release; in my experience among hundreds it's next to entirely looked forward too because they want to experience rules more akin to 6th and 7th.
@Appolyon2 жыл бұрын
Why should people coming over complain thar their system is better? I mean, they can stay there then. 40k has more factions, a bigger community, more support from GW (something i bet will not change just because of plastic models). So any player how favours 40k over Heresy can stay there already and miss nothing out.
@fuhd98922 жыл бұрын
I’m coming in to the system and this is exactly what I expect and even tho I’m gonna 3D print lots of it I’m gonna go my best to be lore accurate and fully painted. I’ve been so desperate I’ve just been playing OPR so I’m really excited to be apart of it.
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
Its not overly protective...its protective, their responses are proportional to keeping the balance ...
@northernexile2 жыл бұрын
I was literally scripting a video on a 40k player's (my) opinions on the coming intermingling of 30k and 40k players with the new box set and this turns up in my subscriber feed xD Great listen as always! Looking forward to giving my limited perspective.
@TheOuterCircle2 жыл бұрын
I'm keen to hear the counterpoint! A few people stated how 40k is full of people who play narrative at home and such, but I feel it's kinda irrelevant, if you play only at home and have no wider presence, you're essentially hidden from the world and company decision making. Secondly, the view of the power gamer 40k player has become the norm as that's the most visible part of the community, and no matter how small they are it's the perception.
@northernexile2 жыл бұрын
@@TheOuterCircle Oh my main worry is that I am going to agree with a lot of the points you've made when looking at my notes. Its more of a different perspective, with you looking over to 40k from 30k and I guess I'm doing the same but the other way around. Some overlap for sure, but also some key differences :)
@TheOuterCircle2 жыл бұрын
@@northernexile Well I can't wait to see it. I also noticed that you spoke about 10th ed next year and the how and why and it was a video I was on the cusp of making. You nailed so many of the points I wanted to, I just didn't bother in the end to make my own video, yours did the talking for me!
@naiveanon6842 жыл бұрын
One of the things that make me uneasy is seeing people say something to the effect of "I would like/play it if there was more support for xenos factions instead of just marines vs marines". I'm all for more flexibility, especially to run Crusade era battles, but at some point it's just obvious that they would be playing 40k if they didn't think the system was fucked. HH is a purely Imperium focused setting by it's very nature, but GW might pander to these people if they think there's enough profit.
@Arisawa_Heavy_Ind2 жыл бұрын
I see no way how this is not going to become a reality sadly. We've seen time and time again that GW gladly sacrifices the integrity of their product, lore and rules for profits. It won't be any different for 30k sadly
@ScreamingTc2 жыл бұрын
I get those kinds of heebie jeebies every time someone askes why Titanicus doesn't have models for Gargants of Wraithlords.
@khamul642 жыл бұрын
@@ScreamingTc because its adeptus TITANICUS. DUH. Not adeptus gargantus.
@jamesespinosa6902 жыл бұрын
I wish their was rules for Orks, and Eldar. At the very least. I'm personally working on custom books for both. My best friend who I've been in the hobby with for over 15 years now. He has always been the 'Guard guy' and has several different types of militia platoons, and a large solar aux army. And he has knights too! So between us, we have all of the Imperial Armies. So what I'm getting at is we already have a large diversity of game types. And I'd still love to have more. I'd love to see how it feels for my Iron Warriors face off against Orks in a 30k level of customisation and list building.
@youreameanonemrgrinch41672 жыл бұрын
They just want Epic 40K back, and GW teased them with the prospect before pulling it away
@primafacie50292 жыл бұрын
The subtext comparing 2012/13 within this could well be: The More Things Change, The More Things Stay The Same
@alexandervanwijk2952 жыл бұрын
im a 40k player. im coming over haha. ive always liked (most of) the conversion kits and models from forge world, and with more plastic coming out is a little easier to convert and integrate hopefully. i wont stop playing 40k, but i think it will be nice to be able to work on a more slow burn dedicated army for heresy on the side, perhaps some dark angel fallen precursors, as black shields maybe but we'll see as the project takes form. i think it will be sweet to explore the start of that part of the heresy through the building of an army, in addition to reading up on lore and the broader setting. having said that, thanks for the tips!
@01oo0112 жыл бұрын
Let the outrage begin.
@SirMeowingCat2 жыл бұрын
gloves off at events, only way to be sure.
@mk13ultra4th2 жыл бұрын
Gatekeep harder! 2.0 is their Grond!
@nightingale46322 жыл бұрын
The narrative is so important to me that I've effectivly left the 40k hobby and moved to the skirmish games. I would have moved to 30k but the FW expense was too high for me.
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
Well now, hopefully with this box set youll be able to get back in ...or you can look for an old BaC box set and pay more money than originally but still amass a greater saving than 2.0.. GW and FW expense ratings are not far off of each other now lol
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
lore is the main reason for games in 30k ...build a guerilla list, or blackshield list ...or a list following a specific fighting style like assualt or devastators...could save you money
@nightingale46322 жыл бұрын
@@wiggy5209 if I was gonna go into 30k I would make Nassir Amit's company. I love the Flesh Tearers in 40k so I might either go for their company during the signus campaign, or as a scouring force.
@youngsandwich59682 жыл бұрын
I think approaching 30k with the attitude that it’s more of a historical based game is a good mindset. Unlike 40k which is a constantly evolving story, 30k is more or less a retelling of events that have already transpired. Hence why there is such a huge emphasis on story and accuracy,
@michaelroth2166 Жыл бұрын
Just because you were there first doesn't mean you have the right to the system.
@jalegria21902 жыл бұрын
as someone who only paints, this is educating
@davetycho83302 жыл бұрын
A few years ago, I spitballed a few crazy fluff ideas, you know, concepts along the lines of hello kitty space marines and other crazy ideas for 30k using the blackshields rules. I was vehemently called out for my ideas as I didn’t understand back then the difference between the 30k and 40k mindsets I’m regards to fluffy lists. It was a sobering experience, but one I don’t regret having since I now understand the 30k community better and understand why they are so concerned with gatekeeping.
@tunguskalumberjack99872 жыл бұрын
Goddamn, Macca- that one video probably summed up my feelings about the Heresy Community and the 40K community better than any Gospel-length comment of mine ever could. Cheers, mate- I wish that every new person interested in 30K, or 40K-er who’s now changing focus could have as good a guide to enjoying the world of the Heresy as I have had. (And that would be The Outer Circle.)
@FunkBastid2 жыл бұрын
Gatekeeping in hobbies is good.
@hossdelgato60982 жыл бұрын
Gate keeping is a necessity
@onepingyboi93632 жыл бұрын
I'm a 40k player looking into playing 30k and I love the whole vibe of 30k, army's always look stunning and some of conversion work is league's above anything I have seen before and that's awesome. I have found it slightly off putting with the amount of rage around the new models for example, but I get that 30k players will not like 40kish styles in 30k. I am basically just trying to say that although there definitely are 40k players that will just play for advantage and are not exactly into the hobby side of it there are a fair amount of us that prefer narrative over playing to win. Myself and the group I play with are all looking at jumping to 30k because it looks more fun than 40k's not so great narrative system. TLDR we aren't all dickheads although unfortunately a few of us are.
@rangda_prime2 жыл бұрын
Welcome to the party!
@andrewcrawford83062 жыл бұрын
Considering every poll ever done shows the majority of 40K players play super casual and narrative games every other month or so, I can’t say I’ve ever agreed with your generalization of 40K players. Frankly, from the stories in the comments and from what bit you’ve said it sounds like y’all encountered super competitive local metas. Which are definitely a thing, but a very small minority of 40K players in general. And therefore don’t even work as a generalization of a large group.
@thorinwhitewolf12132 жыл бұрын
The 2 stores that were my local stores over the years were very different. One was a more fluff and narrative store. The other store was nothing but min max competition level lists and if you didn't bring a power list you were refused a game. Most of the guys from that store were all tournament players because the manager was a tournament player who grew the store into a meta making list factory, and anyone who played casually was ridiculed and left without games. Fortunately I was one of three "painting guys" so we still went there but just to paint and gamed against each other.
@ZEK.02 жыл бұрын
Hey macca great video! I’d love a video detailing your opinions on what kind of kits GW need to produce in order for plastic heresy to succeed and that are best for the hobby
@jaegerbomb2692 жыл бұрын
All for Gatekeeping.
@OliveDr0ps2 жыл бұрын
One of the few videos of yours where I’m finding myself agreeing with basically everything you say. Not that that’s a bad thing, I still come back every video because I appreciate the breath of differing opinions and viewpoints. The community and their staunch “gatekeeping” has been one of the core reasons I love HH, this ours, don’t fucking touch it, don’t look at it wrong, just enjoy it and further it.
@gunmnky2 жыл бұрын
There is a difference between "painting bad" and being new to painting. Painting bad: Dipping models in paint, refusing to clean mould lines, only using two or three colors, or just quitting after the primer.
@psychedashell2 жыл бұрын
Bugger, that describes my VI Legion pretty accurately. Admittedly I blue-tak my stuff into a box and spray paint them en-mass rather than dipping but mold-lines, three colours
@psychedashell2 жыл бұрын
Hate not being able to edit without the app - my Wolves are messy as hell and I love them that way.
@thomas40922 жыл бұрын
as a semi new 30k player i will have to agree with the standard for painting and playing. been trying to play heresy since 2018 when i entered 40k and found out about this massive civil war and the detail and attention people put into their models. I dont power game and infact my main 40k armies are the imperial guard as i love the idea of normal humans ganging up on demonic demigods and standing a decent chance of killing them, and the other is Black legion which i dont even take an optimal list for, its just abaddon some terminators and some chaos spawn that is it as i like the idea that if the terminators dare fail him their fate is to become a replacment chaos spawn. with heresy i run two legions depending on how i feel like playing that day, if i want to play agressive I use my Blood Angels, if i just want to have a more tactical game i use my deathguard. I have spend six hours just painting up one model for my Blood Angels and I know it's not perfect until i can write the small scripture across their pauldrons and add the chipping to the boots. my other army, the death guard, they're deliberatly dirty, not to the point of it being just mess but their white armor is stained brown in the lower sections, their green pauldrons have chips of silver and the gold trims have been hit with so many brown washes it may as well be bronze. each of my models is there to tell a story from a deathguard who is missing half their arm and covered in painted on gauges to my Blood Angel who's armor is pristine and only a thin sheen of dust covers their boots. I know it will get harder to do this as the army expands but i want to try.
@Kiwispike2 жыл бұрын
Been asking myself "how long until an Amber dropping a Deuce reference" now I know
@bruvamichal74372 жыл бұрын
Actually heresy rules look fun, but the prices are heresy it self
@radamanthus Жыл бұрын
I’m new to HH. Gatekeep the Hell out of it. I read the books and always enjoyed the setting but I felt like it was somehow inaccessible. I’m here for what the culture is.
@cripsmafia2 жыл бұрын
Okay I'm gonna add onto what you said about the participation compliments. There are a ton of absolutely amazing artists out there that put so much work into what they do and get maybe a handful of likes, maybe have a few hundred followers. Then you've got spedtimecharlie who slaps on a quick coat of contrast paint, doesn't bother to shave mold lines, or drill barrels or anything and rakes in an insane amount of publicity.
@trevorwoolson38602 жыл бұрын
What has me worried about wanting to hop over into 30k is my gf who adamantly supports my hobby cuz of how much it helps my mental health plays eldar, and I have an ungodly amount of guard. I’m very worried she wouldn’t be able to play with me or my guard would have too much 40K regalia to fit. I love the “historical” vibes and worry my guardsmen don’t fit it.
@13dove2 жыл бұрын
This really feels like gatekeeping. I have gotten recommended this channel a few times over the past couple months and I know at least two of the videos I have watched have been, for lack of a more polite word, whining. The negativity kinda turns me off. I hope to see more positivity in your videos as I explore the channel as I delve into the Horus Heresy new edition.
@wesleymitchell24602 жыл бұрын
Positivity so that something is more palatable and digestible is part of the problem he’s talking about.
@s2korpionic2 жыл бұрын
This sounds like toxic positivity on your part, since you can't understand him being critical about this topic.
@Ed-ss1uh2 жыл бұрын
I don't agree with him all the time but he is offering positive criticism towards the narrative/ hobby aspect of the community, that can come off as facetious at times when he wants to speak his piece but is dismissed by the larger creators on other media apps off the platform. I've seen him several times saying he doesn't encourage hating on anyone specifically, just to enjoy the narrative.
@joshuaforrest41352 жыл бұрын
I have a problem with the duelling tone that seems to come out of this video. On one hand it’s seemingly saying welcome new players but on the other hand it’s saying stay away unless you do things exactly how we tell you to. It’s a game. Yes the hobby aspect is important but to many people that’s the secondary part. Should people put effort into it? Yes but that’s on them on how they choose to enjoy their hobby (either building,painting, playing or a combination there of). If someone ever gave me crap for not drilling barrels I might actually punch them.
@s2korpionic2 жыл бұрын
It's a game that a lot of people have heavily invested in. Understand that difference, and you'll understand why standards are higher in HH.
@nelsoj112 жыл бұрын
30k is basically a historical war game. Bringing a 40k attitude to it would be like wanting to bring a regiment of Americans to a Waterloo battle event, or trying to have a French army of nothing but Imperial Guard at Borodino. Cool ideas, but they don’t fit with the spirit of the game. He’s saying that people who get into HH should be respectful of what it is, and old players should be patient with newcomers.
@gojira44442 жыл бұрын
Always drill barrels if its a bolter or bigger
@deckofmanytoyboxes8845Ай бұрын
My only problem with the Gategeekping is when a player (like myself, who owns a massive heresy army) wants to homebrew rules for factions like Orks and Eldar who were in the heresy. The amount of sneers and shaking heads I get is discouraging as, I like 30k more than 10e 40k but I want to play a different faction then Marines once in a while. Thats my 2 cents, otherwise I completely agree with you
@mathewfitzpatrick56452 жыл бұрын
A few other things: 1) from what I've heard of my local HH group, Primarchs are not rare sights, uncommon maybe, but not rare. Could be just my local. 2) Arbitrary blocking people from the system is not gatekeeping, that's being an ass. Gatekeeping is keeping people that CANNOT fit in the established community out. And don't confuse the cannots/willnots with those that are new and learning. Go on adapt a new player, if they show up with a grey or chapter painted primaris force but are willing to learn apply some pressure for them to get a proper HH force (and remember GW runs expensive games so be reasonable about shit) let 'em proxy as they learn what they like. Relistening to the video Macca already covers most of what I've said so.... eh? 3) Fuck you, 8th ed start off good... enough. GW has a long history of fucking shit up.
@ScreamingTc2 жыл бұрын
Best thing about being a Titanicus player is it's not popular enough to attract a huge following, and GW isn't trying to turn it into a cash cow. Yet. It might change if Epic ever comes back. Plus, it tends to produce a lot of high-end paint schemes, because people treat their titans like centrepieces, and it makes sense from an in-lore perspective.
@darrylkerbow79482 жыл бұрын
Spot on!
@frazergreen67862 жыл бұрын
Well said chief, I'm a 40k player Idk for how much longer only really got into the game the start of 9th and have already soured on the system, I respect the 30k community for striving to stay true to itself, if I decide to join I'll do my upmost to fit in with this frankly in my opinion better community.
@TheRainman6142 жыл бұрын
You'll find the biggest argument is not about the rule systems. Its about setting the scene. Usually you'll hear, "Loyalists" vs "Traitors". Though more often now its, "We are doing a campaign - its Legion X vs Legion X from Book XX of the HH novels." Battle of Istvaan III, Istvaan V, Perdita, Phall, Deimos, Shadow Wars, Coronid Deeps, Hydra Cordatus (first meeting), Armatura, Dwell, Molech, Baal, Zepath, Trisolian, Beta Garmen, Aragna Chain, Diamat, Prospero, etc. Usually people are playing some sort of campaign where the Traitors are winning so they are trying to buy time against all odds, etc. Its not about tournament style play where there can be only one winner. That is an option but most of the people like having some sort of reason why they are fighting.
@frazergreen67862 жыл бұрын
@@TheRainman614 Duly noted
@oliverp35452 жыл бұрын
There'll probably be another influx of 40K players into Heracy with this new boxset, alot of firstborn fans and an entire army of updated firstborn that can be fully used as a standard force in both systems and an opportunity for firstborn people to dip their toes into Heracy. Whether this will be good for Heracy or not will just come with time.
@magnos_decimus2 жыл бұрын
Not me. I prefer the firstborn marines, but I do not actually like the new Beakies. To me 40k is a very fluid setting where you can create your own narrative battles and campaigns and armies with their own backgrounds, whereas in 30k things are more solid with specific things, campaigns, and events happening that you play your games in. (this is from an outsider perspective.) So, these new Beakies with their scale, and overabundance kind of turns me away because it shows a lack of respect for the setting. Also having three different scales of Marines in a Space marine army in 40k wouldn't be much better. (Primaris, Firstborn, and Beakies.) Not unless they intent to update Mark 7 power armor in the future which is unlikely.
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
I dont think there will be an influx of firstborn fans...the majority of them are now primaris fans due to fickleness and other reasons....the new hh kit has tacticals the same size as primaris .....yes they are stated as firstborns and thats good but .....im not sure they will make that distinction...especially if they hate lore.
@James803122 жыл бұрын
I like firstborn more and I like the idea and vibe of HH (fluff, wisywig, narrative outcomes) but the fact of the matter is that I wont be getting into heresy because I imagine that the box will be far too expensive for me to justify, I dont agree with mk6 being the chosen armor type, I hate the praetors, and I like the alien aspect of 40k that heresy lacks (fan rules aside). I also dont think anyone in my group is interested either. Then again, I dont actually play 9th much anymore. More like 5th or even 1st edition, and then battletech. I cant see myself buying many new things for 40k anymore because the deal is just so bad now. I have like 30 battlemechs and thatll keep be entertained for months or years, and that cost me a fraction of what 40k would cost for an equivalent size of force.
@magnos_decimus2 жыл бұрын
@@paulyg405 Even if that is true, it will still be a while before that happens
@chrishoward88272 жыл бұрын
I completely agree with you on this. I joined in the Horus Heresy 4/5 years ago with the introduction of the Betrayal at Calth/Burning of Prospero. With the "1st wave" of 40k players. I had got sick of 7th ed with all the shenanigans and busted codex's (I played Orks, Space Marines and Chaos Space Marines". I now feel like I am starting to gatekeep a bit. A 40k player interested in joining the Heresy system had this to say on the Crusade and Heresy FB page "Comming over from 40k I'm interested in heresy now that 2.0 is comming, what army/models should I look at buying? Not to fussed on which faction just want somthing strong." I was completely disgusted and thought this is exactly the reason most of us left. The fact he didn't care what he plays as longs as it's a powerful faction, was all he need to say. Before I was like "change your mindset".
@trajanthegreat29282 жыл бұрын
I saw that exact same post, felt the same.
@warpbeast692 жыл бұрын
Most of you left cause you wanted to do random shit in competitive modes and get surprised when you don't get handed the victory. Play narrative and fix YOUR mindset.
@MikeMike-gy6xp2 жыл бұрын
I’ve been dropped out of 40k since 7th. Only play Dark Heresy, and Rouge Trader. I just got priced out of the hobby. Cant justify the expense.
@OzymandiasRex2 жыл бұрын
The man speaks the truth.
@BaileyBecca2 жыл бұрын
My local group in Texas plays with primarchs fairly regularly. But I agree with the rest of this tho
@balfouja1512 жыл бұрын
My local group loves Primarchs as display pieces and the like, but we only ever take one if we agree before to take one each and build a fluffy conflict list against each other to fit a narrative that actually makes SENSE to bring Primarchs into it
@TrapDullahan2 жыл бұрын
I remember playing against a 40k mete player in hh he well used the big neutron laser tank... it didn't last long let alone the meta army. Got love boarding shields
@loganrosenberg50262 жыл бұрын
I ran into a problem with the hobby, I started at the end of 8th and was really excited for 9th. I play Orks, they got rid of a lot of fluffy rules for them that I used every chance I could; my lists were shit so I could pull these off. Now they just sit on my shelf, 9th has nothing to offer. The new edition has sparked that interest again, and I can't wait for it to come out. I hope it's something that remains deep and interesting, something to take a little serious.
@Jsay182 жыл бұрын
Hope a cool 30k Xenos book comes out for you lad. There are fan-made rules for some 30k 1.0 Xenos on 1d4chan, iirc. Not sure if Orks are there but its worth a look.
@chaosjimthevoidlord37622 жыл бұрын
I respect 30k, the players who play that system, and their opinions. Even though I personally have only had experience with 40k.
@Juliusstarcraft2 жыл бұрын
That distinction is essential to understand this game and helped me very much! Edit is to add additional thoughts. It is a hard balancing act between growth and ensuring a level of purity in the fan base. To be clear I am not using purity in a pejorative way. On the one hand seeing growth is good because GW sees more dollars and might support more but on the other If that growth eventually results in the community’s voice changing character somewhat the game changes to become something new. We see this often with other fandoms marvel/halo/etc trying to broaden the appeal at the expense of the community that allowed the system to exist in the first place. Growth for growths sake has to be looked upon with skepticism, that goes double for GW I think so this new heresy box set, if affordable might be a double edged sword for the game.
@ventgoblin3307 ай бұрын
I kinda wish 40k was treated like heresy i know i could switch to heresy but i just like 40ks narrative more
@taco13ification2 жыл бұрын
Been playing 40K since 6th edition, so I’m excited to play HH. I haven’t been playing a lot of 40K since Dallas Open 2021. With how most of my game group going meta, it gets boring. Trying get some people to play HH, but the only response I get it, “hurr durr that’s just marine on marine combat.” No shit, but I understand not being able to certain models/factions.
@maddogmadden232 жыл бұрын
It's funny, I am just entering into 30k.. I've collected the models for 40k, but have never played a game due to covid. All the Warhammer books I've read and lore I've looked up was on the HH. I was quite nervous about coming into 30k because my favorite part of the hobby is converting and trying to have a high level of craft that goes along with my models. So I asked my local group... Hey I'm just joining, I'm not sure which army yet, but I really like converting and doing something a little different, what do you think. They gave me some great advice, they pointed out parts of the lore which fit with what I wanted like late Heresy WB or EC. Something I never even considered. Since then I've been trying to find the right shade of pink for my late Heresy EC to relive that scene out of the siege of Terra where their allies look at the EC in shock and see them with repainted armour...
@mathewfitzpatrick56452 жыл бұрын
Good, gatekeep the hobby. That'll do more to save it than letting GW shit on it like they have on 40k.
@schlachterzwerg22452 жыл бұрын
Hey Macca, hey random reader of this comment, me and my gaming group want to switch from W40k to Horus Heresy (no, we are not that kind of guys, dont worry). We were always interested in the lore more than in building lists or buying the newest ugly shit. Primaris are fucking stupid! I hope thats enough of a statement. Here comes the question: Do you recommend us to try as beginners the new Horus Heresy rules or do you advice us to stick to the "old" rules published by FW? Luckily we have access to them via an overfilled Ebay with Horus Heresy Black Books and the red books (army lists) - a lot of people sell their HH things at the moment. In generell, do you think the majority of the Horus Heresy community (I mean the old guard!) will stick to the old rules or start playing the new rules? As I said, we want to leave W40k behind to start collecting, painting and gaming with grownups who value their hobby (have kids, family, so normal people). Thanks for your opinion!
@Armscavalera2 жыл бұрын
my buddies and I jumped from 40k to 30k as well cause we dont wanna keep up with the competitive toxic community of 40k. we are gonna try the new rules and if it goes the 40k path, then we will just revert back to the current system.
@schlachterzwerg22452 жыл бұрын
@@Armscavalera Since I am playing Black Templars as well, I great you my friend and battlebrother! I fear that with the new rules in Horus Heresy we will go the same path as with W40k. There will be for sure a new edition in 3 years. I think that was the most positive thing for Horus Heresy so far for my gaming group: The same rules for quite some time (Yes I know, they are not perfect I was told. Especially psychic phase, etc.). However, I wonder if one could take the "old" Horus Heresy rules "correct" them a little bit and then leave it like it is. Minor balance issues are not the problem for us. We are not interested in highly fair or balanced game systems. If we would be, we would play chess. Nonetheless, we want a "healthy" game system where no power creep is happening, where we do not need to discard units of Firstborn marines, which we accuratly painted only because some Primaris have 1 wound more than our boys for the same point costs.
@Armscavalera2 жыл бұрын
@@schlachterzwerg2245 hell yeah! Templars brother! You can always house rule stuff and even take the good elements from the new edition and combine it with the older edition. Hell, for narrative events there is a whole new ruleset made by some folks called "Mournival Rules" which adds a plethora of new units and adjustments to points values. There is always a way to make the game enjoyable in your circle of players
@Kiwispike2 жыл бұрын
Mate - new rules are weeks away, new ones are similar enough and different enough to the old ones to make it confusing. So I would recommend jumping on the new ones :)
@shotou2 жыл бұрын
I'm enjoying 40k, but I don't hate losing, I just like playing games, I've considered getting back into 30k, but it's just not a thing in my gaming group any more.
@Nyxcha2 жыл бұрын
the mainstream bandwagon comes to destroy, not to enjoy. it will come to your hobby, ruin it, demand it change, and then when they see its dead (not by them they'll say) they'll leave for the next "bandwagon" leaving the ruins of a game. the question is, did the real fans of it survive? are they able to rebuild the game they love from the pieces left behind? or did to many flee or the changes to much, and leave it beyond saving you see it with video games often enough. the mainstream comes, it destroys, it moves on. mainstream isn't a blessing, its a death sentence.
@zackcook51232 жыл бұрын
I'm admittedly new to Heresy but I see no issue with gatekeeping, when used right. My other hobby is ttrpgs and it is a must to gatekeep group. Very specifically people who are bullies or are not here for the hobby. I gatekeep those who put real world politics into the game or server. I had fallings out with my old dnd over this because I refused to give moral lectures to people. In the case of Heresy the existing fandom has something they enjoy a certain way. That's a good thing and if it's not your cup of tea play with different people. It's a good thing to encourage the hobby space you want to see.
@adrianscott42882 жыл бұрын
I've not played 30k, and haven't played 40k in years because as you say, it's terrible. But I will say that every 30k army I've seen at local tournaments and clubs have been consistently gorgeous.
@khamul642 жыл бұрын
I build my current list with Leman Russ in mind only because I know I will face Horus Lupercal. Otherwise I would love to field some super haevy tank painted and converted to look like a vlka vehicle.
@anthonyplayter29812 жыл бұрын
As a returning player from 40k 4th ed, who has been playing OPRs fantasy for a year. I'm choosing to play 30k because I remember playing 4th Ed with mainly Space marine players: Using a handful of codexes; kitbashed and well loved units ect... I'm unlikely to play 40k as currently stands because there are too many books. 30k is everything I'm looking for and the 'Gate-keeping' is required to maintain this appeal.
@nickweston64722 жыл бұрын
Man if you want to cultivate a community of players that want to play like you stop worrying about what a new influx of players will do to the whole gaming community. You’d be far better off starting your own gaming group. You don’t have to worry about most of this stuff if you’re setting up a space where narrative and accuracy is whats happening. You’ve got no hope of controlling the whole community and you shouldn’t try. Just make sure you’re playing with the people who enjoy the same kind of game you do and be open to new people who like the same thing. There’s nothing wrong with saying this is what we do in this group and barring people so long as it’s your group and you’ve made it obvious that the whole group is aimed at a narrative play style.
@yagsipcc2872 жыл бұрын
Gatekeep to hell please!, I do not play 30k but damn I have seen many things I love get destroyed over the last couple of years, be it comics, most tv shows and movies are trash bow, games getting worse, major franchises are a joke and are not what they are etc... Major lore breaking thing issues (Star Wars is the biggest example of this because Disney ruins everything) I saw a creator on paint old metal raptors for 30k full of gold trim and everything looking totally 40k ha I love the idea of 30k it looks like great fun.
@TheRandomNightLord2 жыл бұрын
I’ll admit it I’m a 40k person there’s a lot of things I like but HH has grabbed my attention more because the lore and just some of the rule of cool units hence why my Homebrew NightLords got the mark 3 and 4 marines and Contemptor Dreadnought I honestly don’t even know what I’m doing I’m just painting and putting the minis together the rules are changing too much for me to catch up and play propy
@jogro97692 жыл бұрын
Hate to say but 30k community is starting to become worse than 9th players. 30k players are going super sweaty now. Entire army's of nothing but ap 2. Army's that care more about being op then fluffy. Even gatekeeping is starting to go corrupt in my area.
@TheRainman6142 жыл бұрын
In the US, the Horus Heresy game is non existent. I find that you need to travel in order to get in a game of HH. As far as the rules go, I don't care what the game looks like as long as its fun. 7th was great, 8th/9th are just fine too. If it means I will have more players, I will be happy. The only thing I'm a gate keeper on is painting the army up and aesthetics. I want to play against a 30K force. I went out and purchased the FW kits to make my marines Dark Angels. I want to see my opponent do the same thing. If you're not going to paint your White Scars a white color, at least have a reason why. Oh those white scars painted black are repentent traitors. Oh your red Raven Guard are traitors who followed Horus. Your Legion hasn't broken up to create your chapter yet. Pick one of the 18 legions. That is what makes the game fun - the historical aspect of the game.
@Gumlass12 жыл бұрын
It often is absolutely gatekeeping. Some 30k players really should try to help new players fit the system, before going into full asshole mode.
@NapoleonicWargaming2 жыл бұрын
It is up to the 30k community to ensure we keep our standard and expect the new comers to maych it, not lower the standard to accommodate them. I see it as if I'm atop the Servian Wall seeing the approaching Huns. These barbarians will pillage and destroy 30k, massacring the player base as they leave in digust of all the grey power gamer armies. As soon as the horde arrived, they will leave when the next shiney comes along (10th ed) without a second thought for the 30k community that must rebuild. Rome was never great after the sacking of the Huns,. Be in not doubt, 30k won't be either
@Corvinuswargaming14442 жыл бұрын
the new crowd isn’t understanding the historical aspects of Heresy, which recently fuels all the excuses and bad attempts to retcon MkVI armor where it doesn’t belong
@jonathankilby66362 жыл бұрын
Historical, blood bowl and titanicus player coming over after finding a cheap copy of calth. Planning salamanders mainly cause of the colour scheme. Mac, are you going to be updating your getting started series with the new edition?
@wiggy52092 жыл бұрын
Welcoming people based on being who you want them to be is still gatekeeping .... this idea that being a gatekeeper is exactly the same as being an arsehole is just not true ...its there to stop your unique experience being ruined ....40k people gatekeep, they expect to play by rules, they expect a certain level of standard to play ..ie 3 colours....they expect more than marbles representing models ..... its just 30 k is "gatekeeping"(hate using these words put in place just to demean certain groups with standards because they themselves have none) because there is more to lose, the standard is higher and its much harder to hold a semblance of order than it is to allow chaos....i say, you be conscious of the small but loud minority , instead of fighting just let them whittle you down .... even chaos is control ...it controls that you have no order, its not quite gatekeeping to force your system into a new grey goo mess ...but im sure there is a word thats just as damning ...if people use it enough.
@mychemicaljase2 жыл бұрын
Man your actually putting me off hh it’s a game. I’m a polite chap as long as I follow the rules of the game I don’t see there should ever be an issue. But I now feel like if I have a good list pepole may not like me. This just seems silly
@andydogdad4349 Жыл бұрын
I finished my hh army about a year before the age of darkness box and only played against 2 people cuz no one played hh.... now all I play against is hordes of gray mk 6 marines and spartan tanks XP I get why but I wish more people would actually paint their models and not all have beaky marines XP
@coltonlong75622 жыл бұрын
Honestly, I'm open to trying 30k, but I'm curious if Solar Auxilla will continue to get rules support in the future, cause I just don't enjoy marines thay much.
@mochristie54192 жыл бұрын
im gonna be honest, 30k is likely to move towards what 40k is inevitably just because migration into new systems changes smaller communities. Games workshop is shite at writing content and rules in general- in all of their systems, be they 30k or 40k. The aesthetic is going to change, the players are going to change, and the community will too- and whilst shits gonna suck, its inevitable. The system is going to change heavily over the next 3 years and the community will need to change too, or its gonna be fucked frankly. i fucking hate to say it but the game will need to utterly change in the following years, especially in line with the new aesthetic that appears supported.
@mochristie54192 жыл бұрын
- i hate the new aesthetic- i mean we are just moving to that it seems, and the typical gw scheme for painting tends to be the one most used over time
@theblazingcrusader63222 жыл бұрын
Been wanting to get into the system out of curiosity. Wanted to play iron warriors and was wondering how people might feel if I went marine heavy as I feel that is close to how they waged war in the heresy. Things like the iron circle being rare and only ever seen with Pert if I am not mistaken. Form I have done with my research it seems me not wanting to take a ton of those large robots is viewed as a good thing.
@Thelordofalldarkness2 жыл бұрын
I would love to get into HH but there is no one I know in the local aria I know who plays it. I love the asthetics of HH and the fact as you said it plays more like a historic game and it would be awesome to play something where you could see where things might have went if serton factions lost or won that particular battle. I do get the gate Keeping by the HH players I kind of do that with 1st ed Necromunda.
@Ophidia_Lore2 жыл бұрын
I have always liked heresy from the sidelines, cant afford to play nor anyone else play in the area I am in. However, I have painted some DG here and there, and the want to look more weathered, look more battle-hardened, look more like a heresy style is what drove me, and its why I am coming back to miniature painting as a whole. I dont think I will build or paint or play heresy, but I understand why heresy players are the way they are, and often I agree with heresy players OVER 40k players. Here's hoping this new edition does grundle-fuck the community anymore than it needs to.
@Jarms482 жыл бұрын
I mean, HH doesn't interest me cause it's basically just marines vs marines. Rather than primarchs duking it out. Sure, HH does have regular human factions but they're rarely updated and require spam to even have a chance of winning. No xenos either makes it boring as well. GW could potentially include Orks and Eldar, but Necrons are largely asleep. Then Nids and Tau don't even exist. I also prefer 40k's setting over HH. The 40k galaxy itself is a setting, existing across 10000 years you can play any period in, as well as anywhere across the galaxy. HH is much more limited in scope.
@Ed-ss1uh2 жыл бұрын
I enjoy both settings. You haven't read the books or enjoyed the narrative if you think the HH is that basic, it's legions upon legions of space marines from all chapters with full diverse company's specialized in different warfare doctrines. There's no major xenos because everyone knows the HH took place when mankind was the Top faction????
@Jarms482 жыл бұрын
@@Ed-ss1uh I have 6 out of the 9 black books, I use to buy every FW rulebook because of the lore alone. I've read many but not all of the HH book series. It just doesn't interest me. It doesn't matter if the marines are diverse, they're still marines. That's not exciting to me. People complain in 40k that marines get all the attention. HH is just that to an extreme. Like 90% of the factions are marines. Some xenos would have made HH more interesting. Even Battlefleet Gothic had Tau. Even though the Gothic sector is on the complete opposite side of the Imperium. It was to represent the Tau taking advantage of ships being diverted to participate in the 12th Black Crusade. The same could be done to HH. While the HH is ongoing, have xenos attacking the fringes of the Imperium. But no, can't have non-human factions at all, except Daemons, cause its HH.
@magicalmagnus22 жыл бұрын
sorry but lotr, has the best consistent high level quality hobby. Heresy can only dream of having the quality of lotr
@maxencemasse30172 жыл бұрын
In fact, we must keep playing for the fun and the lore, the « hard » players searching for broken lists will clearly stand by their side. Just don’t be that old grumpy guy who reject new players 🤷♂️
@delphaneuxlacroix2 жыл бұрын
Gatekeeping is the ONLY way you can guarantee your hobby doesn't get usurped by some asshole who just wants to warp it to their way of being before they fuck off looking to ruin something else. If hobby has no gatekeepers, it may not be worth getting into.
@N0-1_H3r32 жыл бұрын
Universally and without exception, gatekeepers are toxic shitbags who presume to know better than everyone else, who never consider that their attitudes might be the problem, and who are utterly devoid of empathy, compassion, or common decency, and would rather blame literally everyone else for all their own problems. Basically, the same things fascists and white supremacists want to do, but to a hobby rather than to nations. It's no surprise that there's an overlap there.
@gunmnky2 жыл бұрын
40k died with 8th ed.
@jameshouse25882 жыл бұрын
this is how i feel about immigration
@biome32 жыл бұрын
I'll happily buy the new army box that is coming out, I'll add it to my 40k army, and I can see a lot of others will do the same. Will this make Horus heresy 2.0 look more popular than it actually is? Probably, will that hurt the current playerbase, I think so. I won't be playing Horus heresy any time soon, so I guess we'll see how much longer the game system lasts when people who literally buy Horus heresy miniature don't even want to get involved with it.
@HellbenntTube2 жыл бұрын
Nobody wants you playing 30k, you just go on outercircle making a prick of yourself
@deusmortis97512 жыл бұрын
This could have been better worded but I understand what you mean
@Jsay182 жыл бұрын
Primarchs and their consequences have been a disaster for Warhammer Discourse and Game Design.
@echothegecko28752 жыл бұрын
Coming in from 9e very soon with the new box release. Tired of sweatlord 40K players who flat out discouraged me from personalising and naming parts of my Guard army. I don’t care much about the meta, I play for those fun moments where my sergeant, last survivor in his squad, rolls really well and holds up against a plague marine in melee. Those moments I could visualize in my head, especially with how detailed my friend’s plague marines were.
@LongWarEnjoyer2 жыл бұрын
YEEEEEEHHAAAWWWWWWWWW 🤠
@ameliaclark19172 жыл бұрын
I joined the Heresy community before the official rules were even released as part of the Great Crusade forums and played with the homebrew rules from the Tempus Fugitives events, I definitely fall into the definition Macca used of this is my last GW game. I want the game to thrive on the one hand but I'm also very sceptical of an influx of 40k players being a good thing. I guess we'll have to see how it all pans out. Maybe it will be another flash in the pan like Titanicus where it will get coverage for a couple of months then those who bought in will start to slink back to whatever games they came from?
@therealtripler86292 жыл бұрын
I have always built fluffy lists, meta be damned. I tend to look at things from a different perspective, tactically, seeing value were others might not. I cut my teeth with rogue trader and the original realms of chaos books. those armies almost had to be thematic. I like to think that I am the kind of player that would fit well into the existing community. that being said, on the subject of gatekeeping, I don't believe that gatekeeping is ever a good thing. my experience has been "undesirable elements tend to grow bored rather quickly and sort themselves out. in the meantime, the community would most likely gain a fair amount a good players that fit well and build strong thematic forces that fit the setting.
@e46mc932 жыл бұрын
Waiting for people to start playing heresy games with full primaris..... 0__o
@thescarletpumpernel33052 жыл бұрын
Tthis new launch of heresy has a much better chance of bringing over people genuinely interested in a balanced and stable ruleset with narrative play priortised because the BL novels and YT lore vids have stirred interest to a fever pitch and people are fed up of 9th which is designed for tournie meta play and no one else. Compare that to what started the heresy, namely disillusionment with a changing meta where marine armies frequently ended up last, and 2.0 is actually going to launch in a more positive way than the original game did.
@gabrielseth51422 жыл бұрын
Some people in the HH community go a little too far, for the most part though the "gatekeeping" is healthy. I have no problem talking shop about 30k with a 40k hobbyist and explaining the lore and the overall difference in vibe between 30k and 40k. I don't want 40k colonizers in the hobby where they make 30k into 40k, I like the hobby because of the community. It's less jokey, people want their armies to look as good as they possibly can make them, a 30k hobbyist first and foremost isn't a wargamer, but a miniature maker and that's what i want to see. I like feeling like I'm there in the setting with mud and blood and grime and I like having an army and seeing armies that people want to have reflect the lore rather than what plays best. I love the Horus Heresy, I love it the way it is, I just don't see a point in gw trying to expand it and meld it into 40k when they already have a 40k