Big edit, I made a major mistake and said Ben Greaves when I should have said Simon Elsen’s Sons of Horus. Huge apology to Ben, and although no harm (neither person contacted me) I just wanted to redact my mistake. Always own your mistakes people. I have seen the 2.0 rumours, they look like horrible amalgams of 7th and 9th edition with some fixes, and a lot of new bloat. I will not make a video on 2.0 until it is released, everything until then is hearsay.

I have a very well painted 30k army but wouldn't know how to play😂 It's refreshing to paint and enjoy it rather than chase the never-ending rules cycles.

You make me feel old when you mention that theres lots of people who dont remember 6th and 7th.

40k player here. I see 30k in the same way that I see bolt action. They are, as far as I am concerned, historical games and sould be treated as such. I am looking to get into heresy by starting an Iron Hands force and I think that dreadnaughts getting wounds is a good change, making them work more like monstrous creatures. that being said, all other vehicles should not work like that

Now, to be fair to the LOTR players, they get such little attention and so few players, I think they're grateful for anyome and anything at this point. XD poor saps

Look at it this way, what if a Star Wars movie was made set during the Galactic Civil War and they had First Order stormtroopers? Fans would cry foul since that's not right at all. I don't expect people to count the rivets on my armor, but I think we're just asking for people to make an attempt at accuracy. It's like you spending hours learning to paint and painting up an army only to have your opponent come with unpainted plastic that they make no attempt to rectify.

Having standards is not elitism. Gatekeep, my friends... or loose what you love!

As a battletech player I'm more concerned about about our hobby because we've never really had an eliteist culture. the lack of minis for the variants and the parts needed to convert has made it a very lax game. mechanics tend to be the gatekeeper because have you seen the books? total warfare, tact, strat, campaign and intersteller ops? tech manual. shit's like 2e in the modern day. but it's far more historical for lack of a better word in it's temperament, the old guard used to do entire detailed unit compositions as such my friend is building a ful pre-misery wolf's dragoons regiment

I want to get into 30k. A fun way to extend my existing Blood Angels and Raven Guard Armies. Also thought MK7 was at the Siege Terra. Just hope the world doesn't blow up before I get the chance.

I think the biggest trigger regarding that Sons of Horus White Dwarf army is that its vastly better painted than what I've seen most 30k players field no matter how well they think they can paint. And yet its a complete mess and full of inaccuracies hahaha. Now that's enough to enrage some people on a deel level

I dunno regarding the paint standard, as one there been playing 30k for about 11years now I never seen much of peoples going in to how good or bad you paint your army as long as it is painted in correct colors.

I've never played 30k however I've been building up a 30k Death Guard army using more a more realistic grimdark paint job and weathering to match the grim setting. I feel like 30k armies really need to reflect the time period they're set in given a lot of games are set around certain events during the heresy and it would take away the immersion going up against something either not painted or with units/armour patterns after that time. When I come to learning the game I would only want to play against people with fully painted and lore accurate armies as 30k is a lot more about story telling than 40k

I HATE PAINTING. but i love creating unique models through 3D printing or green stuff. I also do love Blood angels YET hate the mark 7 look because it feels so lazy.

I don't get it ... Like rocking up with clearly 40k models to a 30k game for me is like trying to play Hystorical Napoleonic War game with Speznatz and saying they are Russian Infantry, so what gives??? like i dont get the appeal at all :D

The people who bring Mk7 armour in horus heresy are the same people who would bring a Tiger 2 to an early war battle.

Keep 30k as is. I practically ran away screaming from mid-late 8th over to the HH I do not want the game to get another 40k scenario where it is just 50 auras and and 10 stratagems on 1 unit to blow the other away.

I mean I would love to make a space marine army for both 30k and 40k, but I am poor enough to barely be able to scrape by a regular 40k army. I loved the fluff of black templars so I chose them despite having a majority of mark III and mark IV. Would I love to still play 30k? Sure but good luck finding any players in Wisconsin that play enough on a regular basis, especially when I am tripping over people who wanna play friendly 40k games. I have a fully painted black templar army that I would love to run as a scouring force, but apparently that is frowned upon

I hate, hate, hate, the amount of elitism in 30k. The problem I have with the elitism is because from what I have personally seen, if your unit isn’t perfect to spec Example being Spartans, people won’t let you play it without changing the sponsons by hand. I have had nothing but nightmares with dealing with players and just getting units on the field. I have seen beautiful space marine armies not allowed to play because their armor wasn’t changed to enough to meet the others perspective. I have no problem with the people who take the mark 7 armor. Simply put there is so much of armor being built and modified that mark 7 can be done up to be just fine. Use mark 3 and 5 helmets and heads and backpacks with a decent paint job of their legion is more than enough. I love people creating their own groups and stories, not reliant on the blanket history of 30k. I generally go by rule of cool, if your having fun I am fine with it. It is just a rule set that makes 30k what it is, but it isn’t fun because people get shut out. It is impossible for me to get friends into heresy because of the gatekeepers to the point where I have completely abandoned 30k. I went so far as taking one page rules (Grimdark future) and modifying the rules to fit a 30k style. Because it isn’t “Warhammer” there aren’t the same problems, and I am able to play with who I want and have no issues with this bullshit that keeps everyone out. I don’t have money to spend on 30k forge world items, no one I know personally does either, I only want to have fun in my hobby. Sorry for the rant but I have thought a lot about this in recent times, as I have been going back and playing 2nd-7th editions of 40k, and writing up the modified rules for 30k to Grimdark Future, and why I have had to take that step.

40k Space Wolves player - I prefer the 30k Wolves’ colour scheme and that has been more than enough to appease the 30k crowd in my area.

I'm still disappointed there was is no pre-night lord 8th legion paint scheme from the black books

With HH 2.0 do we really want those clowns at GW to take over the legacy of Alan Bligh? The last bastion of narrative gameplay.

I've never asked if something is good in 40k or 30k (sold my army because GW hasn't cared in so long that the couple heresy players around here gave up) but I get people asking. For a system that used figures at least nominally from FW it's nice to know that you're not wasting your entire months hobby budget and a bunch of time on something that's totally useless. If somebody's list concept is to pin down the enemy with artillery, then close the distance and finish them off in close combat and the artillery shoots apologies and the rest of the list isn't fast or hard hitting enough to do their job, they're going to be pretty pissed about it. Performance ties into theme. I totally understand that it gives off the impression of WAAC building, but the hobby has gotten to the point where it's just too fucking expensive to make mistakes in your list.

I actually got pissed the other day at a KZfaq video regarding 40K models that you can use for 30K . Normally, I love that kind of video, as I started my Heresy army using certain Heresy era-appropriate armour (from 40K kits) that I mixed in with my Burning Of Prospero box, before really getting into the Forge World stuff. He had a few correct points- not that it’s all that hard to do- but where he irritated me was when he said that since MkVII armour was used at the Siege Of Terra, it was okay to use it in 30K because “no one plays just specific times of the Heresy, so it’s fine to use”. So, you know, I guess nobody plays any of the Isstvan scenarios, or Prospero, or Calth, etc. I couldn’t believe it- and this guy has a lot of subscribers, and presents himself as a lore guy/ historian of Warhammer. It just seemed so dismissive of all the 30K hobbyists (myself included) who put in a lot of work and go to great lengths to be “historically” correct. I’m sure there were other points that were incorrect, but after that one I didn’t want to listen to him anymore. Of all the videos on that exact subject I’ve seen, that was the only one that said anything so disrespectful and stupid.

Question: Is it frowned upon if a person brings some 40k Night Lords using the 2019 CSM plastic kit if they use the FW upgrades and 30k accurate Shoulderpads/backpacks? Lore-wise I could see it as justification/reflections of them being scavengers during Tharmas and since they went into hiding before the HH kicked off, but is scale of non-primaris, true scale Traitors really frowned upon when the effort goes in to make them look more 30k?

Great video Macca. Again it's a well constructed thought out an delivered opinion. The gate keeping in 30k is a good thing. I don't care what people say. We don't want more people if it's gamey people that give no f**ks about the fluff the lore we all have developed. My painting has come along in leaps an bounds an its 100% because of heresy other wise id never have developed at all.

I'm pretty sure the reason they gave individual movement values to units in 8th edition was because they were phasing out initiative as a stat, and needed some way to show the Eldar as quick and the Orks as thick. It's not so much people were asking for varied movement speeds, but that people would be angry about things not feeling right when there's nothing to represent the disgusting grace of the Eldar.

Elitism is not a bad thing. Why the hell can't we have a selective community?

I have a rather small army for 30k where it's all 30k units,except for a set of the New Chaos Terminators,of which I removed the tusks and chaos markings to fit into my Sons of Horus.

As someone starting a blood angels force that I'd like to use in both systems I feel like getting it right for 30k is so much more important and that's why I'm building it as a 30k army then adapting it for 40k, because it pretty much doesn't matter what armour mark or what symbols you have in 40k but it does in 30k.

Hi Macca, wish we could have a conversation on this topic. A lot of points you said are absolutely true. on some we disagree of course but that's subjectivety. I also don't think gatekeeping is all it's cracked up to be. it happens in nearly all hobbies. Soccer fans don't want tennis enthusiasts in the hobby. I giess it all boils down to intent, like you said. if my opponent shows their intent accordingly then we can have a game. The golden rule here should be: respect your opponent and the people in the hobby.

I have never and will never play HH but I fully support people digging their heels in and defending it to try and keep it what it is. Yes, it's a toy soldier game and people can, will and should do as they wish, but that absolutely should never be allowed to be what the core of the game is.

I’ve been slowly growing my Iron Warriors Heresy Army for a number of years now. But the thing I struggle with the most when building it, is building the bases.

The thing I find odd about the 40k-ers trying to get into the heresy. Isn't part of the plastic crack the need to buy more GW minis. Why rock up with 40k models when you can satisfy that basic urge to buy more minis, and make a proper heresy army. I would gladly teach HH to people with 40k armies, but I would use table top simulator for that. I have an addiction to building lists in battlescribe, and then porting them to table top simulator when possible. I know it is text book definition of elitism but I would consider it to be more integrity. We want to preserve it, and welcome people into a world of fully painted thematic armies, and the sweet alt paint jobs from the black books.

8:41 bro literally the 1993 cover art for the Horus Heresy board game has green Dark Angels in Mk7 power armor lol.

Cruxes were common award during the crusade, the crux terminatus however was a specific version. It's just a type.of medal.

So 30k people are rivet counters, like old historical peeps? Got it. While I understand a lot of what you are saying and agree with some of it. There are people you are naturally going to run into that are like you describe. If gw releases this, it will follow along with current 40k and bring 30k into the mainstream. 30k is going to become super hero hammer 30k just like 40k is now. We are seeing it with the two new characters. If that is what 30k becomes, I'm out. I have 40k and play it, I want to play 30k for something very different and like some of the things you are saying about it. Its about enjoying the period in history. Similar to flames of war 5-6 years ago before they tried to mas market it with 4ed, It was huge! Now I hardly see it carried and even fewer playing it. I go to hobby shows and cons and see the old players selling off armies that they put time into to be historically accurate because they hate the new system. Look at privateer press and warmachine. That game was huge here in the states and almost pushed gw out, but changed to a mass market approach and now they are almost dead.

if you rocked up to a ww1 game with ww2 miniatures you'd get a piss take and rightly so. i dont even play 30k btw but even I am disgusted by the idea of 40k proxies.

Aside from obviously necessary changes like the psychic phase and warlord traits, dreadnoughts as MCs is one of the few rumoured changes that I actually like the idea of, especially when you consider Battle-Automata and Siege-Automata are already MCs. It could also add interesting flavour if they have the Legiones Astartes rule. Some of the other rumoured changes like 'Hold The Line' are what I am more anxious about.

"30k players have spent a lot of money on resin" nervously laughs while side-eyeing my entirely MKIII Iron Warriors. I dread to think exactly how much I've spent over the years

given some 40k players being pissy that I have made deathwatch veterans out of primaris assault marine kits and scratch building upscaled weapons so that I don't have the mini-marine next to chad boys problem in my army I don't think 30k has a monopoly on "elitisim" the difference is that in my experience the 30k elitisim is centred on reasonable standards of being accurate to the setting where 40k tends to be all around fanboyism to the company rather than being true to the setting or hobby.

So that blood angels character is fine in my opinion. Captains have been allowed to wear whatever heraldry they choose its pretty well established. For example the novamarines based theyre chapter colours on a captain in the Ultramarines from the HH. So to me your captain could be in really whatever you want. Bear in mind too legions were disorganised compared to chapters lending to differences in colour schemes some emperors children wore silver and this is in the last HH edition. I assume they would bear minimum wear the trim of their company somewhere when it comes to captains.

Dark angels with black swords is goofy since heaven-fall blades don’t exist yet.

It feels like that this is the hill that 30k players are going to die on.

Hoping that teased HH/SoT box releases in a reasonable timeframe. I want to get some MK6 marines for a small Rogue Trader-themed painting project

I would love to play heresy but no one around lower Wisconsin that i know plays. I have a love for the alpha and Dark angel legions. Especially the Hexagrammaton and how they never truly expanded those 3 other wings before i knew of HH i always was curious about those wings and making them in game as a reformed legion especially to have the son of the forest leading them would be so fun. Alpha legion i just love the paint scheme i specifically bought an air brush to replicate the base teal candy shell and then do weathering. My goal for them is some rusted winter compound theyre sabatoging the outskirts of so downed rusted chainlink fences and them making across some forgotten industrial tundra complex.

Dunno what your community is like but here in the UK the Middle Earth community produces the highest and accurate standards out of any of the GW games and i play them all.

I can’t recall what book but I think it said the calibanite dark angels started painting the puldren green instead of the legion insignia but i believe the rest of the armor is still black

hey maca, my take on the mark 7, im building a a siege of terra force, iwill have mark 7 in it, but only on about 1 in 20 marines, yes there was mark 7 but it was rear, in my opinion is that the only way to have mark 7 in horus heresy, whats your opinion on that?

Ive had some little man on facebook call me the weakest hobbyist in the hobby because i had a lot of unpainted models .....to some people their sense of self or the hobby ...equates to only the painting ....how sad is that! Never mind the conversion work and capacity to build the more complex minis and the drive to complete so many..... i have a fully painted warlord titan with most mini painting and transfer techniques somewhere on it and he ignored that to save his little ego..... There are some odd odd people in this world.

30k is the premier league of GW gaming for me, the aesthetics of painting feels more like scale modelling, attention to detail, etc. I’m glad it’s that way, I want to feel I’ve got to up my game to contribute. I’m a 40k player and appreciate all the 30k players/hobbyists who keep the standards high. If we want in, we should work harder n respect the game and the folks who came before.

Idk if I'd call it elitism, sounds more like facts and logic.

I wouldnt say its elitist to expect someone who wants to play 30k ....to play with 30k minis or at least mks of the time .....putting the cost aside ....apart from the different rules ..they are supposed to be two different time periods ..... Its about as "elitist" as expecting a space marine player to not use tau models as proxies .....or matchsticks ....

Had been thinking about picking up 30k for a while, glad I watched this, I think I'll pass now, thought the 40k community was toxic lol

Players should aspire to meet standards in a game, it doesn't have to be a barrier to entry but it should be a challenge. Compared to the standards usually achieved by the historical wargaming community the heresy doesn't really demand much ability or time but is very rewarding.

I'm a crappy painter who loves painting. I play to see other people's passion projects and share mine. I dont mean to sound elitist but if just want to play, there are videogames for that. You'll save a ton of money and not have to paint a thing.

I dont know much about 30k tbh I love the look of everything I still havent read any of the 30k books but I like your channel a hell of alot in general. You clearly love it, want the best for the game and the players. I like Elitism we need more of it in the world tbh call it what you want, Elitism, Gatekeeping etc... too many things are being dumbed down, watered down or trying to appeal to everyone all the time. Everything becomes generic! and its ok to have some generic stuff but not everything! generic stuff can be great for learning about things or getting into stuff at a base level some people need it but many people just jump in the deep end as well and want to be drowned in flavour, lore, background/backstory.

That’s why I dread this new scale heresy 2.0 rumour. I’d rather not have to deal with those people who only care about 30k for some arbitrary reasons like that.

Many of Macca's points are the reason our FLGS group went back to playing 5th ed 40K with a couple of house rules imports from the various compatible editions (and allowing any codex from 3rd-7th to be used in that framework). The funny thing is that many of the players who had only ever played 8th or 9th ed 40K that have joined us really enjoy the more thematic and tactical game that the older codexes and game mechanics provide. Additionally, the dice pool psychic phase started in 6th ed is complete garbage as it is a direct lift from old WHFB rules. it does not fit in 40K especially compared to the intuitive and efficient LD check system used in their appropriate phases of 3rd-5th ed.

i wouldnt mind MARK VII when you base your army arround the Siege of Terra with sergeants and special characters etc. i encoutnered some 40k players that changed to heresy because of GW Primaris stupidity... collect a 40k army paint it etc and then your work gets butrap--ed... i can understand why they wana play heresy with their painted armys because they want to feel that it still can be played. 40k isnt the same anymore 6th 7th edition was fine but 8th 9th is just too primaris ^^ (and tbh honest its GW fault that they drive away people from 40k and those people where lacking in 40k and nowin HH for a newcomer it can be hard and sometimes the HH are just uber elitist and kick people out of tournaments for one MARK VII helmet) and Dominion is wrong designed the best part about him is you can work some nice kitbashin with him

I wish I lived somewhere with a 30k and 40k community all I have is a few friends that barely fully build or paint there army’s

I am a 30k nerd (the name gives it away, huh) and I agree mostly. I think you simplify too much, even though I agree with the basic argument. If a friend is contemplating starting 30k and wants to proxy his 40k old Space Marine force to try the feel of the game, fine by me! As soon as he (or she) decides to be serious about it, I expect those models to be replaced in a timely manor. As far as differences to 40k, there is a couple that are/where important to me: 1. The narrative driven forces and battles (Fully agree with you there, also makes an epic loss pretty fun ;-) ) 2. The more realistic paint job and the paint job actually signifying something (Clean Ultramarines or Emperors Children vs. weathered Deathguard) 3. The higher level of the Paint job and a complete ban on "grey walls" (unpainted armies) -> this ties into point 1 also! 4. The slower pace of releases, its so relaxing to be able to take a 1 or 2 year break and still have a nice, functioning army 5. people identifying with their force in one way or another. But there is always a story for why they are playing said force. Cheers and thanks for the vids ;-)

Best part of being a space wolf player is that green stuff furr is not that hard to do. Just cover up the parts with furr

In fairness: "Dark Angels with broken sword iconography and green armour" could be done as the personal heraldry of the hero leading the force applied to his army. I am sure it would recieve some raised eyebrows anyway, but if the rest is done "right" - i.e. era appropriate armour, weapons, etc. - I see no big issue.

So my 30k space wolves are all in correct MK armour with what I beleive is the correct iconography but I painted them in a blue grey rather than the flat dark grey. Am I not welcome?

I must admit, as a 40k raven guard player I have looked at the Mor Deythan and the Dark Furies with the thought of using them in 40k. I will say that a lot of my hobby character is imperial guard and overall I'm not all that interested in 30k though there is some nice stuff out there

Totally get it and nothing wrong with it.

I’ve walked away from my local 40K community at 9th edition. The WAAC mindset, the lack of people painting models (some don’t even finish building their models!) just deterred me. I’ve been lurking at 30k stuff for a long time and I’m just about ready to take the plunge. I’m just torn between Blood Angels or Imperial Fists. I love both of those legions and the primarchs in their own ways.

I'm planning on doing the exact opposite. using my 30k army for 40k if and when I play 40k

I can't wait for Heta Gladius to be released 😊 So pleased dreadnoughts are becoming monstrous creatures, it puts them in the same functionality space as automata. Making them vulnerable to standard bolter fire is also one of several subtle changes being made to increase the versatility of Tactical Squads. Oh, and good to see you've apologised to Ben. I'd be more careful in the future naming people like that, particularly given they didn't invite your criticism of how they chose to enjoy the hobby.

Word Bearer can easily use new CSM plastics; as they already becoming true chaos SM. Gladly Mk.4 and Mk.3 is far more available today. I’ve seen people use primaris stuff on their 30k stuff.

I actually completely agree with the first point. I started at the start of 6E right at a decade ago now, which was also mostly the startish of 30k on Forgeworld. And even then, people who were buying and collecting the 30k range were considered snobbish as to how they hobbyed. That trend has continued till today and i agree with it. But not always on the negative. People who tend to play 30k they sprnd a lot of money on these kits but they also put the most time into this hobby because they are required to ACTUALLY hobby. Forgeworld kits require work and dedication and someone has to really want to do it to get it done. VS a 40k player who is mostly spoiled when it comes to the plastics and overall model quality and availability.

I hope they keep the armour values for Dreadnoughts, or vehicles in general. Giving them toughness and wounds was in my opinion one of the stupidest changes from 7th to 8th edition. The only thing i liked, was that now monstrous creatures had now to deal with similar problems like vehicles: getting weaker with more wounds taken. I think, that might work: keep armour values, ditch the damage table and let them get weaker with lost hull points, same with monstrous creatures, but the later with T and W values. In my opinion the main problem with vehicles of any kind is: you can bring them down with one lucky shot. And yes, there is a lot of gate keeping in 30k, but it's justified. The last 40k events i visited in 7th edition had a much more combative atmosphere and the most toxic players often were the ones with the least effort in their army, going as far as one army being CSM with total different colours and basing on all models, as f the player bought them from different ebay sellers. We later found out, that this particular player cheated in all his games. On the other hand at all 30k events i visited there were only painted armies with coherent themes and nearly all players had a much more relaxed attitude. The only exceptions i noticed so far were 1 player who didn't care to even buy the rules, only used Battlescribe as reference, accused others of cheating and called a player out on fielding a "Ballerburg" (german word for an army that only stands in the farthest corner of their deployment zone and doing nothing but shooting), just because her Laser Destroyers (her only unit with reach 36" or above) destroyed his Land Raider first turn. He himself fielded more heavy weapons - and played green Dark Angels.

So no bringing my favorite 2 40k chapters into the Heresy as the 2 lost Legions?

I am building and painting a 30k emperors children force with mostly mk3 armor. I know that mk4 was the preferred mark but i have found examples of emperors children breaching forces so i went with it. I think the problem is that some people really don't give a damn about the setting and just want to have fun. Not that having fun is a bad thing but ignoring all other hobbyists is. From what i've seen, 30k is a mainly narrative game and you try to get the feeling of it to the tabletop. And having some nonsensical forces with weird armor and wrong colors isn't respectful to the setting. 40k is a much more flexible setting where you can explain a lot of odd things so you can just go wild. You could even use 30k models and justify why they are still around. 30k has more limitations by default and if you don't respect that, it will piss people off.

I am definitely a fan of 30K elitism. It has encouraged the community to become better hobbyists, painting their armies, wanting their legion specific forces to look as though they are apart of that legion and they want their games to be thematic in order to immerse themselves in the game a little bit better. I don't want to play a game where my guys look like they belong on a distant battlefield in the far future and then have my opponent put a primaris marine in a blue white and pink color scheme with a poorly painted pride flag on a shoulder pad as a joke followed by an army of poorly enamel painted models. I get having a joke or a laugh or a piece you can talk about in other games, but I don't like that in 30K and I don't think a whole lot of other hobbyists do too. Kind of like if you're playing a WWII based video game, like Hells Highway and they replace the nazi's with clowns shooting water guns and nothing else changes. It's an expensive hobby, but it's a nice hobby where you get a lot of contentment form, you might make a big purchase here and there, but it's slower, you don't paint up your blood angels, put them on a board and then go to buy 800.00$ worth of Solar Auxilia because now you want to start a different army. I see that from time to time in hobby shops where a guy buys boxes upon boxes of 40K models, assembles them poorly, visible mold lines, poorly painted if painted at all and they say "I'm working through these but I'd like to play with them now instead of waiting a few weeks or months" even though you know they won't. It's like, take your time, you're not in any rush. 30K has a lot to offer, I like the wide range of models and armor variations, I like the effort put into a lot of the sculpts, I like that you can interchange a lot of different pieces, even with characters to get something new and unique. Enjoy the game as what it is, read up about whatever army you want to do and make something thematic for them and do it justice because it really is a great hobby once you get into it. The games really rope you in and that's the biggest selling point of 30K, is you feel just a little bit more there on a grimey battlefield with gene enhanced soldiers shooting big guns, cutting each other up with chain blades and axes and what not

I think that Heresy players should be more open to accepting new people coming from 40k, but should also try to help them and show them how the community is different. There's nothing wrong with new people coming in, and even if they like 40k, they can always learn to adapt and be in a new community as well.

I don't have a painted 30k army just around 100 mk3 marines in their grey glory. I've been playing 40K Space Wolves and wanted to try something fresh, so why not play 30k. Though I do not paint my army, i still have some fun games of Zone Mortalis.

I mean I’m fine with someone using MKVII armour if the force they’re building is themed around one of the defending Siege Legions. As long as they remove the more obviously 40k parts,make the armour look more utilitarian, and use Heresy transfers. If they were to use the army in battles meant to take place at other times in the heresy then ehhh it’s not personally a match up I’d want to play unless it was just a very casual game.

I agree with you on everything but one thing. I hated it in 3rd edition when everything moved to 6 inch moves. I had a harlequins army. I relied on being able to out manoeuvre my opponent. As all I had was 4 characters, 5 harlequin jetbikes, then three squads of about 12 harlequins each. I had to pick and choose where I fought.

What about Custodes??? Can they be translated to 30k???

Here is something I cannot approve of. When FW released Horse Heresy models, but then forgot to give them 40k rules, it was clear that this was a consequence of FW's laziness and incompetence. But now, if the GW itself will produce everything and the miniatures and the rules BUT not officially allow these Warhammer miniatures in 40k, this is the worst fan service. I.e Horse Heresy continue steal miniatures from Warhammer. I will never approve of the "don't play with our miniatures" elitism. Same for the Olde Worlde, so as result I dont like this both systems.

I forgot to mention this in my other comment, probably because it doesn’t have to do with the subject being discussed here. Anyway, I couldn’t find any Abaddon Black or Leadbelcher paints at my FLGS, so I decided to go to the one GW store that’s anywhere near me. They didn’t have any, either- in fact, they were sold out of many of the paint colors I generally use, and the employee had zero idea when they might actually be back in stock. While there, I noticed three other things in particular- 1. They had a very limited selection of models, not just paint, with some factions not having a single kit. 2. There were no prices on ANY of their products, when there always were before. Maybe because of the upcoming price gouge- oops, I mean increase. 3. There were several keychain type trinkets, bookmarks, and other things like that for sale up near the cash register. One of them was obviously a Melta Bomb, just larger than on the models (about the size of a thumb from the first knuckle to the tip) and made of shiny metal. But on the package, it said that it was a Bolt round. There’s no way on Earth that the thing was a Bolt round, it was 100%, without a doubt, a Melta Bomb. Do different departments at GW HQ not speak to each other? They create the shit, and don’t even know what it is? It’s kind of like picking up a Black and Decker drill that says on the packaging that it’s a palm sander. If it was in a box that you couldn’t see the product in, that would be a possible excuse (though a rather poor one). But the keychain was in a clear plastic bag with a card that it was attached to, the card saying what it is. You could see the product from every angle, and the name of it at the same time. I can’t believe that thousands of those things made it out into their shops and no one noticed. Maybe it’s a Bolt round from the Seventh Legion Death Guard. Unbelievable.

Is this unit good? No, it’s crap. Well I’m gonna run it anyways because it looks cool!

I’ll be completely honest, most of my stuff isn’t even close to being fully painted as I oft can’t find the motivation to do it. That being said I always try to put as much effort in as possible when I do and I’m always trying to build fun narrative lists in 30k. Also the point about using 40k armies in 30k because people don’t want to build a 30k army, well I basically do that in reverse with my world eaters.

Guess that's why 40k is more popular.

I know for a fact that my NightLords army won’t be playable because of the mixture of 30k kits and 40k kits

another area where the advance of 3D printing can be a major help. it's so much easier to acquire 30k accurate models now if you have access to a printer, yours or a friends one. For example, I wouldn't have a Leviathan and soon a Contemptor of my own with all the weapon options without the advent of home printing. Yeah I don't have enough of other 30k accurate models, but the point stands nonetheless. And yes, 30k players have that higher standard expectaion. *Good.* It shows dedication, and in a way should you pass that expectation test with your army it's somethign you can feel some pride and accomplishment for.

Vehicles with wounds are terrible much like in 40k it’s a joke

So I mostly agree with all this. I love 30k, i love the narrative of it. I mostly play online rn as i am waiting to make a physical force due to 2 issues i ran i to irl. 1. One part of tge 30k players near were power gamers that crunched and were all about playing the best units and best armies. 2. Tge others werent to happy that due to a shaky hand issue i am a poss poor painter and dont have the extra cash to comission painting to their liking rn, or for the last while. I do hope with tge plastic kits rumored and some more people in my areas im friends with wanting to try it out for narrative type play ill have a chance to fi ally build and play my Night Lords in physical. Ave Dominus Nox

I was _JUST_ revisiting this very *Issue* in my mind when I saw this very comparable (New) Video in my feed........Synchronicity in motion. Thanks Macca (!)

This latest Age of Darkness pulled me into 30k without a fight. I was so sick of 40k and the rules bloat (and more). Like most 30k players, I started with Rogue Trader. I've not liked the direction 40k has been going for a few editions now. 9th was no fun to me. I have no interest in 10th. Thank goodness for 30k, my hobby got better. Rock on gents. 👍

I view 30k as an historical game, same reason I wouldn't want ww2 soldiers being shown in a napoleonic game.

Maybe the Horus Heresy players should rebel and make their own rules. Because ya know... The Horus Heresy's Heresy TRIPLE H! THE GAME!!!!

I'd really like to see a guide to the rules of 30k, because I've been collecting models I love but havent even begun to get a force together because of how inscrutable the rules seem. I played 5th and 7th ed 40k, so it's not the game rules, it's the army rules, faqs, books, and all of that that seems difficult to even get started. I have the Massacre black book but none of the red books. How do I get started with rules and force org? I've seen your list building videos but the rights of war seem like a huge barrier of entry for listbuilding to me. Where to find them all, and how to select them? Are there any community rules or fixes you use for your games that make it better?

Lets hope those rules rumors are just bullshit because they look like absolute shit.

I have actually experienced the opposite, 30k players have been extremely welcoming willing to answer questions and want people to play the system. 40k players I have encountered on the other hand have had nothing good to say about 30k actively disparage it and the people who play and are extraordinary toxic towards it

For me I see what you mean about painting but for me its more about the converting tbh; big nos are using bits as other bits eg melta bombs and auspex scanners used to represent special grenades or upgrades. Big pros are building bits, wysiwyg etc

I myself was not enthused by the 40kification of the potential dreadnought thing. Toughness and giving everything a health value is what killed 40k for me. Imagine someone fury of the legioning your dreadnought that costs 100pts more than the tac squad.

HH sounds like the kind of game I wanted to play when I first got interested in 40k, the old chaos codex had all this possibility of customisation and even the advice on modeling was all about homebrewed narratives to base the look of your army on, and I always liked the look of older power armour ever since the first supplement for the ffg Deathwatch RPG came out and I learned about them. I've always wanted to make a Nightlords and or Salamanders army but the 40k codex options for either of them have been really boring frankly since like 3-4 edition... I might be on the verge or trying out a squad of 30k traitors to see how I like the looks of some mk4-mk5 Night Lords I can prolly splurge on a squad cos it'll look nice on my shelf even if I don't expand any further.

I have come to the conclusion that GW views Horus Heresy as a specialist game along the lines of Adeptus Titancius, Necromunda, Blood Bowl, etc. When you view HH in this manner, their attitude makes much more sense in regards to their releases and their lack of conscientiousness. Its just a specialist game, whats the big deal? So few people play HH, we have to spend our resources (time/money/etc.) to maximize each releases potentiality and portability to other game systems. I am not commenting on whether or not this is right or wrong, GW is trying to make money after all. The side affect though is that the HH community with arguably the largest "specialist game" on the docket, is seen as a fringe and is treated as such. Mainstream players most likely dont understand this intra-game cultural phenomena and assume that every game system has a vapid and rapid time table of armies/models. A funny little culture clash within a hobby that has somehow created territories within itself courtesy of its sheperd, GW.